Leading Saints Podcast

Sister Lynzi Clyde Lynzi Clyde was born and raised in Mesa, Arizona as a member of the church. She attended Arizona State University for one year and then transferred to Brigham Young University in Utah. She and her husband have been married eight years and have three children. They currently live in Boston, Massachusetts and previously lived in a Utah ward where Kurt was their bishop. Highlights 7:00 Lynzi was called as a Primary president at age 23, with a brand new baby, in a highly transient ward of primarily Harvard Business School students 9:45 The ward youth and primary are combined with a Spanish branch and a Mandarin branch 11:25 Biggest blessing was amazing alignment of counselors: two from the English ward, one from the Spanish branch, one from the Mandarin branch, and a secretary from the English ward 12:35 Creating unity in this primary started by building unity in the presidency. She started with “highs and lows”: what is going well and what do you need prayers for? This allowed them to feel more comfortable and also willing to share ideas with each other. We need to be vulnerable if we are going to touch people 14:35 How to lead with non-English speaking parents: two experiences, one good and one not as good. * A child with learning disabilities – spent lots of time trying to engage him, but in the two years saw little progress. She told the mom to just keep bringing him back and let him be with them. Three years later, saw him in the hallway preparing for baptism. It could have gone a different way if they hadn’t included him in the primary. We need to work with the parents and communicate the love that we have for their children so they can leave them with us. * A child from a non-English-speaking family – as it was time to move to Sunbeam class, her mother didn’t want her to move out of nursery. The “rules” say to move the child, and the nursery leaders wanted her to be moved but the mother didn’t want it to happen. Kept pushing the mom and she did take her to Sunbeams, but the girl ran away and got lost in the building. It ended badly and she knew she didn’t follow the spirit like she could have. They later left the branch and she felt she didn’t do what she needed to do to express love. * How do we support the family and the parents in these decisions? 25:00 We need to stand up for our own revelation. She knows she can be straightforward and demanding when asking for what she needs. She tried to understand the difficulty of the bishopric in this ward as well, but just kept pushing and providing the reasoning. Every chance she got, I would send emails, talk to them in the hall, just a reminder constantly. There's a balance between advocating for what you need but also stepping back and just take care of the Sunday meeting time. 29:15 Don’t be afraid to have the discussion or push the discussion. What is the worst that can happen? Reference to Barbara Morgan Gardner’s book “Women and the Priesthood”. 30:10 The bishops and counselors always asked “what is your biggest need” – both in the callings, but also spiritually. Get yourself past that barrier of needing to sugar-coat everything. Be willing to speak up. You will feel a closer bond with those that you struggle with in the end. 32:20 Lynzi's “Learn, Live, Love Yourself” podcast for Latter-day Saint women who are passionate about progress, who like to challenge themselves and learn things. She provides “POP” (power of practice) challenges with every episode. 34:50 How has leading made you a better follower of Jesus Christ? “It has put me on a faster track to spiritual maturity.” Sister Marcie Bayles Marcie Bayles lives in Bentonville, Arkansas. Originally from Colleyville, Texas, she has also lived in Southern California and Shenzhen, China. She previously taught high school Computer Science and Math and is currently a Li...

***Register for the Meetings with Saints Virtual Summit*** Dr. Steven G. Rogelberg is a Professor of Organizational Science, Management, and Psychology at UNC Charlotte. The author of The Surprising Science of Meetings: How You Can Lead Your Team to Peak Performance, he is a distinguished scholar addressing issues such as team effectiveness, leadership, engagement, health and employee well-being, meetings at work, and organizational research methods. The book is a culmination of 15 years of research and thousands of surveys and interviews. It’s a collection of evidence-based insights and represents a strategic approach that leaders and organizations can take that’s highly practical and accessible, but also strongly based in science. In this interview, Steve talks with Kurt about applying the insights from his book to improving meetings in the Church environment—a sneak-peek into the upcoming Meetings With Saints Virtual Summit which begins March 17th, 2020. Highlights 5:00 We know one thing but tend to do a different thing, but there is no formula for meeting success. Instead the key is making good choices, which is more empowering. 7:00 Steve’s experience with members of the Church 8:15 The cost of meetings is underestimated 11:00 Being self-aware as a meeting leader: stewardship and making changes 13:40 Things to reflect on that are signs that there needs to be improvement 14:30 Start with a quick survey, then work on the little things and assess later 17:00 Talking as the leader vs. leading the discussion 20:00 Transparency and honesty allows you to lead from the back or the front in a genuine way 21:10 Three phases of the meeting: planning/designing, facilitating, and post-meeting activity 21:50 Planning a meeting is not time consuming and has a high return on investment 23:45 Taking a “pre-mortem” moment before the meeting 25:00 Agendas are a hollow crutch: what matters most is what is on that agenda and how it is facilitated * Frame the agenda as a set of questions to be answered * Allow other people to different agenda items * Put the most important/compelling issues first 30:10 Parkinson’s Law: Work expands to fill whatever time is allotted * How much time should it take? Dial it back a bit and create time pressure * Volunteer time is a precious gift: build trust by respecting it 35:00 Combating minutia in meetings by making meeting time incredibly purposeful 38:00 Councils and update meetings * What is a good update? Decide and then put people on the clock * Silent updates via a shared document 41:20 Silence in a meeting is a way of engaging people 44:25 Technology in a meeting: multitasking is a symptom of a bad meeting * Keep meeting minutes in real time on the screen instead of a powerpoint * People focused on their phones is actually feedback 47:00 Avoiding the meeting that should have been an email * Recording your voice with the message you want to give and sending it out * Start the meeting with questions about the message(s) you sent out 49:30 Presentations in meetings: have the person write their ideas in a document, then discuss it in the meeting 51:30 Where to find his book and research on the science of meetings Links

For LGBT Latter-day Saints, no two experiences are alike. However, in this interview we hope to explore what the gay or same-sex attraction experience is like for women in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Kurt Francom sits down with Quinn Kelly, Bailey Savage, and Deb Hutchins who each experience same-sex attraction. They discuss their personal experience being raised in the Church, serving missions, being active in their wards, and striving to develop a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ and maintiain their covenants and beliefs in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Highlights 06:00 Quinn’s background growing up in the Church and finally admitting her SSA to herself 08:40 Deb’s background, burying her SSA until her mission experience, and coming home early 10:30 Connected to a group at BYU working with students and administrators to make the campus a better place for LGBT individuals 16:30 Bailey's background of figuring out she is attracted to women 19:30 Bailey meeting her husband Jared 22:00 Clarifying that being same-sex attracted is not a choice 25:00 What the same-sex attraction experience is like for women 28:00 The power of connecting with other women 31:00 Seeing same-sex attraction as a gift 32:00 Being open about your story with others in the church and why leaders need to have their back 34:30 Other ways leaders could support sisters who are same-sex attracted 35:30 The process of "coming out" 37:00 Being forced to "come out" again and again 40:30 The importance of allowing people to be vulnerable about their story 43:00 Being single vs. being same-sex attracted and single 46:00 When leaders create false hope 46:46 How important it is for a leader be proactive in learning more about the same-sex attracted experience 47:30 Why leaders should attend the North Star conference for free 48:30 Considering the concept of eternity and hope 52:00 What a bishop should consider when someone "comes out" to them 58:00 How North Star has helped each one of these women 1:02:00 How has the same-sex attraction experience helped you become a better disciple of Jesus Christ Links northstarlds.org (register for the free leadership sessions)

Becket Cook grew up in Dallas, Texas, in a large Catholic family, and recognized at a young age that he experienced same-sex attraction. After living a gay lifestyle in Hollywood culture, he began to feel a sense of overwhelming emptiness in his life. A powerful spiritual experience in an evangelical church led to a dramatic lifestyle change, embracing Jesus Christ as his Savior, and finding fulfillment identifying as a Christian. Becket is now an author, speaker, and preacher, and will be speaking at the North Star Conference, March 5-7, 2020. Highlights 10:50 Growing up in Dallas, recognizing his same-sex attraction, and exploring gay culture 13:15 Identifying as a gay man and disconnecting from Christianity 16:00 Moved to Los Angeles and fit in with friends having a Hollywood experience 18:30 Wondering about the meaning of life and discovering a sense of emptiness 21:00 Met a group of Evangelical Christians in Los Angeles and started questioning the foundations of his life 23:30 Attended Church, felt the Spirit during the sermon, and had a powerful born-again experience during worship time and again at home after 27:30 Immediately dismissed a gay lifestyle and welcomed Christ into his life 29:10 Wrote a book, A Change of Affection: A Gay Man's Incredible Story of Redemption, and was blacklisted in Hollywood 30:40 Basked in the grace of God for the first year, and recognizes now that struggles are part of sanctification and he can turn to Jesus for support through difficulty 34:25 His life is no longer dominated by his sexual appetite; comparison with Esau selling his birthright 36:35 The gay culture is so powerful and needs to be countered with the armor of God that comes from daily immersion in scripture and prayer, and in a community where others can help you and pray for you in the body of Christ 39:00 What difference would it make if we turned to scripture like we turn to Instagram? 40:40 Paul prayed for the thorn to be taken from his flesh and it wasn’t, but all he cared about was the gospel of Jesus Christ; the struggle and tension in life is worth it 42:40 The fulfillment of powerful prayer and abiding in Christ brings joy that enriches and renews; a daily practice bring results and not spending time in spiritual discipline means missing out on those results; sees his own mission to teach 49:00 Unconditionally loving people is a long process and leaders need to balance grace and truth, being as loving as possible as individuals go through their own process, showing compassion instead of preaching to them 52:20 He chooses to not put himself into situations that are dangerous and has embraced new Christian friends, but keeps the door open for his old friends so they know he is still there for them and still loves them 55:30 Identifying as gay vs. identifying as a Christian; shaping of identity by how we label ourselves 58:45 His book isn’t just for people who experience same-sex attraction 1:00:15 After being in the dark for so long, he can now see the emptiness and the contrast with the miraculous change in himself Links A Change of Affection: A Gay Man's Incredible Story of Redemption, by Becket Cook Register for the free leadership sessions or discounted tickets to the entire North Star Conference, March 5-7, 2020

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Tony Overbay is a marriage and family therapist, author, speaker and podcast host. He began his career in the high tech world but felt the call to become a therapist and help men. For the past 14 years, he has been a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in Roseville, California. While Tony grew up in Utah, he is an adult convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has been married 28 years, is a father of four, an ultra-marathoner, host of the Virtual Couch Podcast, author of He's a Porn Addict…Now What?, creator of The Path Back pornography recovery program, and currently serves on the Leading Saints Professional Therapists Advisory Board. In this episode, Kurt and Tony discuss how leaders can deal with co-dependency, overcoming the nice guy syndrome, and how we can be more successful focusing on values instead of goals. Highlights 4:00 Co-dependency: what is it? 14:30 Nice guy syndrome in leaders = co-dependency 17:20 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy 20:00 God isn't disappointed in me 24:25 Bad things happening aren't correlated to our behavior 30:35 Relief Society President example 31:40 Values and the Bishop Monson dynamic 36:40 System vs. goals 37:45 As you make goals, focus on values that you've established 41:30 As an organization (or ward) we should be focused on values, not goals 47:00 How do we see signs that we're trapped in the nice guy syndrome? 55:00 Values: find what's important to you 1:00:00 Truth, beauty, and goodness 1:04:00 Values vs. identity 1:06:00 The importance of vulnerability as a leader Links TonyOverbay.com He's a Porn Addict...Now What?: An Expert and a Former Addict Answer Your Questions Clarifying Values PDF, from The Confidence Gap by Russ Harris

Diljeet Taylor is the Brigham Young University Women's Cross Country Coach and Associate Director of Cross Country and Track and Field, and came to BYU in 2016 after the previous coach retired. She ran for Cal State Stanislaus and for the Nike Farm Olympic development team, then coached at Menlo College and later replaced her own coach at Cal State Stanislaus. A three time All-American herself, she has coached 23 All-Americans and led the BYU Women's Cross Country team from 19th to second place nationally in only four years. Diljeet and her husband Ira have two children, Taj and Avi. Highlights 04:35 Running and coaching history and how she ended up at BYU 06:30 Embraced the standards because it is similar to how she was raised, even though she is not a member of the Church 07:40 Coaching cross country involves both the physical and especially the mental components 08:45 Her first goal was to bring the team back to national relevance 10:10 The team gets the recognition they need from the school and feel valued and supported; it consists of 35 women who are part of “the sisterhood” 13:10 Leading young women is about empowering them, advocating for them, and teaching them to build each other up instead of comparing and competing 15:15 Get reminders daily so they can compare themselves to where they have been, and work toward their own goals; each has their own challenges 17:30 Talking about their dreams; the five most important words are “How can I help you?” * The way you can teach them to achieve their dreams and goals is to help them achieve the goals they are working toward right now, which for the team members right now is personal growth in running 20:30 Bringing their individual goals together as a team happens through focusing on the journey and not the outcome 22:15 Establishing a culture of support by writing note cards to team members before every race, and an empowering culture of relationships * Emphasizing how important it is to genuinely care about the person next to you * The locker room: the teammates who are left home from meets aren’t left out because they are the supporters in the culture of sisterhood and recognize this is something bigger than one person 30:45 “Athletes don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care” 32:40 Transparency is the key to making the tough calls and dealing with the disappointment of staying home in the locker room * 35:45 Being honest even when you have to be tough: the athletes also know that when she says positive things, she means it * 36:45 Knowing which athletes can handle or even need tough love * Giving feedback through two things they’re doing well and one thing to improve on * If an athlete seems unable to handle the tough love, it means the relationship isn’t strong enough 39:20 Drama and conflict with young adult women: They learn to handle it because they learn to be confident women and to step away from the comparison mindset; acknowledging that drama and conflict is part of being human, and validating and normalizing their feelings 42:00 How to diminish the comparison component: Comparison is the thief of joy * You can’t go through life without experiencing the success of others, but someone else’s success doesn’t take away from yours * Being happy for others while still being very competitive 45:20 Time and vulnerability are most important in creating connection so you have to be vulnerable as a leader, get out of your comfort zone, and put in the time to build a relationship * 47:20 Admitting when you’ve made a mistake 48:30 No overall approach: each athlete has individual goals and training plans 50:30 Athletics activities for young women: sign u...

Richie T. Steadman is a radio host, producer, actor, and founder of the Latter-day Saint podcast, “The Cultural Hall”, where he has been entertaining and informing since 2011. Richie worked for 16 years as the producer of the popular Utah radio show, “Radio from Hell”, and now works for Brigham Young University Broadcasting. Richie served a mission in Cleveland, Ohio, and lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. Highlights 8:25 The Cultural Hall history 10:25 Richie’s experiences in radio 13:00 Growing up in the Church 18:50 Serving in the elders quorum presidency 20:30 Handling moving in the elders quorum 24:15 Making meetings run on time 28:45 Just download this Tools app already and update your photo and information 32:35 On marriage and divorce 38:20 Reaching out to Church leaders for counsel and why it didn’t help 39:15 On anger with God 39:50 Dating and marrying a nonmember 46:10 Thinking differently and asking why 48:20 Church discipline experiences and what we can learn from it 57:20 Attending church as an excommunicated member 59:00 How might it have been handled differently? Links theculturalhall.com Twitter: @TheCulturalHall and @RichieTSteadman BYU Radio: The Lisa Show

Kim Partridge is originally from West Valley City, Utah, and has lived in Phoenix, Arizona for 20 years. She is a nurse and a life coach for teenage girls, has served as a Young Women’s President, and currently serves in her stake Young Women’s presidency. Kim and her husband are the parents of four children. Highlights 7:40 Young Women are all about relationships 9:50 Conflicts within relationships can play out in the church setting * 12:00 Micromanaging relationships seldom works out well; story of two Laurels * 17:30 Story of young woman whose grandmother asked that they invite her into Young Women’s: grandma was angry that she hadn’t been welcomed like she wanted * 23:40 Everyone cannot always have a fantastic time 24:30 She learned that she needed to know what the young women wanted * 25:00 They wanted to do activities similar to what the young men were doing * 26:45 Target shooting at her first girl’s camp * 29:00 Goal to connect with the young women at camp * 33:20 Expectation that they will tell her what they want: get interested/pay attention to the clues 36:00 She encourages fun with everything but also balances that with the spiritual aspects 38:15 Admit when you make a mistake: left someone behind 42:00 Making sure the youth are handling their goals without the adults always pushing * 45:00 Go back to the basics, help them recognize what they want, and know that they are developing a relationship with Jesus Christ 49:00 Request for a change from physical challenges to an embroidery challenge 51:45 Grand Canyon activity: what the girls learned while doing a hard thing 59:35 Leading young women has developed her relationship with the Savior Links Kim Partridge, Teen Girls Coach

Melody Warnick is an author and freelance journalist living in Blacksburg, Virginia. Her book, This Is Where You Belong: Finding Home Wherever You Are, investigates and experiments with the sense of connection that binds some of us to our cities and increases our physical and emotional well-being. Melody lives in Blacksburg, Virginia, where her husband serves as a stake president. Highlights 5:30 Serving in Melody’s stake in Virginia 8:20 How the book came about 10:50 Experiments in loving where you live: micro-action steps you can intentionally take to create positive experiences for yourself 18:45 Applying these principles to wards and stakes * 19:20 Creating a community based on geography creates a situation where we can practice being more Christlike * 21:50 Benefits of “instant community” in the ward, as compared to moving for people not in the Church tribe: familiarity and similarity 25:45 When you struggle fitting into the community * 26:25 Leaders need to pay attention to these people * 27:30 The more engaged you are, the more you will feel at home * 28:30 Everyone can feel left out or like they don’t fit in * 30:10 Being proactive can have a big impact 34:00 Serving in callings and outside of callings: have a personal ministry from a desire to be of service * 37:35 Taking your talent to the community 41:30 Do we have to participate in the Church community? * 43:30 It can be easier to socialize with Church members 46:10 Serving in a Church community within the larger community * 50:55 Being the mayor of your street: building social cohesion in your neighborhood 54:40 Cliques and community: creating horseshoes, not circles 59:00 Detaching from your ward and going forward: moving or changing callings 1:07:00 Choosing to live near family… or not 1:13:00 Finding joy wherever you live 1:15:00 Two-hour church and missing connections: You don’t have to ask permission to create community 1:17:45 Asking, “Where are we needed?” 1:20:00 Building relationships with people and finding ways to serve them is key to living a Christlike life Links melodywarnick.com This is Where You Belong, by Melody Warnick

Clint Pulver is a motivational keynote speaker, author, musician, and workforce expert. An authority on employee retention, Clint helps organizations retain, engage, and inspire their team members. One focus of his work has been helping organizations connect with younger generations through his work and research as “The Undercover Millennial”. Clint was a professional drummer for over 20 years and has appeared on America’s Got Talent and in feature films. Highlights 06:50 How Clint got involved in leadership training; “Be a Mr. Jensen” story 12:45 Every person you’re leading is asking, “Let me know when you get to the part about me”; advocating vs. developing 15:45 How advocacy and development looks: Status interviews—checking vital signs to find healthy stability long-term 20:18 The leader must be the person who sees worth and potential in individuals 22:45 Mentorship is different than leadership: it is always earned 24:00 Five characteristics that create a mentor: Confidence, competence, candor, caring ability, credibility 26:00 Connecting to youth: Creating an opportunity for them to feel the Spirit 28:30 Speaking with vulnerability and asking good questions creates relatability and connection, developing an environment where the Spirit can enter 35:00 Connect, communicate potential and worth, become the advocate and take a real interest in what they love 37:30 Start with their technology; utilize their world: have text conversations and then move to the harder questions and it will lead to more connection away from the technology 41:50 Making real connections is serving as Christ did Links Video: Be a Mr. Jensen ClintPulver.com

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Joe Staples is the Chief Marketing Officer at Motivosity. His entire professional career has been in the technology sector with the last 20 years being in marketing executive positions. Joe grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada and converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints right after his high school graduation. He attended Brigham Young University and says that if you ever want to have a lot of friends, register as a non-member at BYU. Joe and his wife are the parents of five children and 16 grandchildren. He has served as a bishop in Seattle and is currently serving as the Stake President of the Sandy Utah Willow Creek Stake. Highlights 05:30 – Friends got him interested in Church. 17-18 years old is a common age for people to join the Church. Friends asked him a couple of times before he listened to the missionaries. 08:00 – Used to sneak into MTC prior to his mission just to listen to the devotionals 08:50 – Served a full-time mission to Brazil after spending 4 ½ months in MTC and then 4 months in the Boston mission before finally getting his visa for Brazil 09:45 – Experience of being called as Stake President 18 months ago 10:55 – Advice for incoming leaders 17:00 – APPRECIATION FOR OTHERS AND GIVING THANKS –As leaders we have the ability to help members feel appreciated for all they do. 18:45 – Getting past the appreciative clichés so that members feel leaders’ sincerity in appreciation 20:10 – Most people want feedback; we’re all somewhat blind to our blindspots 21:45 – Is there a point where we have to be concerned with too much appreciation? 23:10 – A BELIEVING HEART 24:55 – Knowing one truth is a connection to other truths – encourage people to ask questions, but also to have and cultivate a believing heart. 26:30 – As a leader you have to be empathetic. Everyone’s faith journeys are different. 27:20 – JUST GO HELP PEOPLE – No need to wait for the assignment, just be about doing good 30:15 – START WITH THE END IN MIND – What do I want to accomplish in this calling? 29:46 – THE VALUE OF COUNSELORS – invaluable when used properly 31:15 – Conversation with his counselor – What do you think your role entails? 32:00 – The Amulek Concept: Being the Second Witness 33:10 – Presidency survival trip – develop a greater love for one another and to faithfully rely upon each other 36:00 – HUMANIZE LEADERS – Allow members to see your imperfections – be vulnerable and relatable to allow you to be approachable 38:00 – What does this look like? It’s how you talk with and get to know people. Be deliberate. 40:00 – Biggest lesson learned as SP: Never get between the member and Holy Ghost and their growth with personal revelation. 42:00 – Blessing of being a Church leader: Becoming a better disciple of Jesus Christ and helping others do the same.

Heather Choate Heather is the mother of seven children, with another on the way. She was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 29 while pregnant with her sixth child and had both chemotherapy and surgery during the pregnancy, followed by multiple rounds of chemo and radiation treatments. The baby survived and Heather later wrote a book about the experience. The Choate family lives in Pueblo, Colorado, where Heather is currently a Relief Society teacher. Highlights 6:00 Heather found an aggressive form of hormone-sensitive breast cancer at age 29 while pregnant with their sixth child, and they were told to abort the baby to stop the hormones that were feeding the cancer. Went through four rounds of chemotherapy and surgery while pregnant. 10:55 No doubts about the decision despite doubts that she could handle it herself 12:30 Most difficult moment was going alone into surgery at 28-weeks in the pregnancy; surrendered the life of her child into God’s hands 16:30 Treatment began again six days after she gave birth, and the intense chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery began again—this time with a newborn and young family of eight 18:30 The feeling of “I don’t know what to do” was mutual and she was challenged and humbled with accepting help; be aware of that feeling and be willing to ask what can be done 21:30 The ward made it possible for her husband to be home with the family for four months 23:00 Seemingly-small things can be profound for everyone involved 26:00 Listen for guidance from the Spirit and be open to the answers, and God will provide them Shanda Miller Shanda grew up in Brigham City, Utah, and served a mission to Chicago, Illinois. She and her husband have three children—including twins—and went through six years of infertility. Shanda went into labor 23 weeks into the pregnancy with the twins (Memphis and Savannah), who were born four months early. They are now 2.5 years old. Memphis spent eight months in the hospital, has had eleven surgeries, and is deaf and nearly blind. Savannah spent seven months in the hospital, has hydrocephalus, and has had twelve surgeries. They both also have cerebral palsy as well as mental and physical delays. Highlights 28:35 Three kids through invitro fertilization and thrilled they were having twins 30:45 At 23 weeks in the pregnancy, prior to the time of viability, she went into labor and they were told they had to choose between letting the children be born, holding them, and letting them go, or fighting through intense medical treatment with only a 10% chance that they would even survive 33:00 They made it to 24 weeks and she had an emergency c-section; two difficult days to work through the difficulty of making that choice 38:00 Still moving forward with faith through challenges 40:15 Unexpected so there was no plan and they did not even know what they needed; the ward took care of their daughter Lila so Shanda could spend her time at the NICU, and then someone came every morning and every evening after the babies were home just to help with whatever was needed 44:10 She was also exhausted from asking for help; the ward paid for postpartum doulas to continue coming and supporting Shanda 47:00 Needs changed and the ward was open to working through that, being aware, checking in, talking sincerely, and observing what was needed—often before they even realized what they needed—from both the Relief Society and elders quorum 50:00 Difficulty of asking for and accepting help; it’s too easy to say, “We’re fine”; if you think of something they might need, it’s probably inspiration and they probably need it 52:00 Passed lists through meetings; practice vulnerability and be open to negotiating what can and should be done as time passes 54:40 They felt the need to give back and looked for their own small way...

Kurt Francom, Brent Daines, Jason Coombs Jason Coombs is professional speaker, author, entrepreneur, and former addict. A Utah native, he lives in the Boise, Idaho area with his wife and 3-year-old twins. They own Brick House Recovery, a treatment program in Boise and Idaho Falls. Kurt previously interviewed Jason as part of the Liberating Saints Virtual Summit. Brent Daines was Jason's bishop from 2006 to 2011. Brent now serves in a stake presidency, lives in Bountiful, Utah, and is the father of seven. Highlights 6:30 Jason’s story started with an auto accident 7:45 Jason is the grandson of President James E. Faust, and at the time attended church weekly but wasn’t living close to the Spirit. Went to lunch with a friend from work who connected him to a doctor prescribing opioids 12:30 Ignored the warnings in his head but justified his actions and saw the doctor 16:00 The physician was indicted for fraud five months later, sending 139 addicted patients to the street for drugs 22:00 Didn’t believe he had a problem, but had merely been “found out”; marriage failed and was homeless and living in a very dark place 24:30 Incarcerated and in a drug court program but couldn’t stop using 25:25 Brent received a phone call from Jason’s ex-wife and went to see him in jail 28:15 Brent had been prepared by his experience with his brother and was able to see Jason as Christ sees him 32:10 There will be a few people who are greatly affected by you during your time serving as a church leader 36:00 Called President Faust at Jason’s request and learned more about coming to this from a place of love 38:30 Weekly visits from Brent led to hope for Jason, but he was still not ready to commit to change for four years after being released from jail. Brent would still appear at critical points in Jason’s life. 42:00 Brent could still feel Heavenly Father’s love for Jason, even though it seemed his actions were not helping 44:10 Jason made the decision to change after his son was born and in intensive care, but still went through rehab five times before he was able to complete the 12 steps and fully change 47:45 Made a final confession to Bishop Daines, in spite of his fears about judgment and excommunication 50:30 Immersed himself in friendship with others who were actively recovering, made good decisions, and changed his perspective on church discipline; Brent was his advocate through all of this 55:50 The challenge of self-forgiveness and recognizing Jesus Christ as your personal savior Links Unhooked: How to Help an Addicted Loved One Recover, by Jason Coombs Brick House Recovery Liberating Saints Virtual Summit