Food Safety Talk

The show opens with Don talking about his visit to the dentist right before the podcast. The conversation turns to Don's dentist and his job satisfaction, and on to other important jobs, like airline pilots. Ben then talks about his talk in Nashville about behavior change and his first visit to the the Conference for Food Protection, which evolves into a discussion of handwashing and hot air hand dryers. The outbreak flashback segment is in the parking lot this week, but a listener question from the Bob and Melinda Gates foundation is not. Before the question is answered however, disco music, video games, author Alan Moore, the movie Mystery Men, the Keith Richards biography and YYZ must all be discussed. Eventually they get around to answering Bob's question regarding recalls and discuss the difference between recalls and market withdrawals From there the discussion moves to a Hershey's soy lethicin recall in Canada, FDA's reportable food registry, a Clostridium perfringens outbreak and a recent article from The Acheson Group blog. The show ends with a Pink Floyd reference, and in the After Dark, Don discusses the hazel app on his Mac.

The show opened with a long discussion of various philosophical issues relating to careers in Academia, followed by a brief diversion into gutter cleaning drones, comiXology, and the new TV show Silicon Valley. Ben shared he has been listening to Gord Downie, The Sadies, And The Conquering Sun. Downie will be familiar to FST podcast listeners as the Canadian rock musician, writer, occasional actor who is the lead singer and lyricist for the Canadian rock band The Tragically Hip. Don noted that he had backed the new Lee 'Scratch' Perry Album kickstarter project. In the follow up segment the guys noted that a new show noter was still needed, before moving on to a listener question from Jon Kimble about the protective effect of wine in foodborne disease outbreaks. Ben also talked about his experiences at a raw milk conference he attended in Canada. Fortunately for Ben, Dave Semenko was not needed. The Outbreak flashback segment of the show flash all the way back to the 1981 listeriosis outbreak linked to coleslaw made from cabbage fertilized with sheep manure. Ben noted that sheep were also one among many possible Listeria sources in Jensen farms outbreak, as also indicated by fashion plate and Apple guy, Dr. Lawrence Goodridge quoted in the story. Ben wanted to talk about Hep A and Tevana, when the show finally started, because he is a mall rat. This led to a discussion about Hepatitis A vaccinations for Foodservice workers. While it might not be "cost effective", it still might be the right thing to do. The discussion then turned to sous vide cooking, and a new product on the market, and Don's interactions with the reviewed.com reviewers as well as the product manufacturers in the comments. Don was less successful in leaving comments on a recent sous vide NPR blog post, but thanks to Doug, Don was able to weigh in on barfblog. Don then quizzed Ben (who is from Canada), regarding whether he now lives in the South. The show ended with a mention of the passing of noted self experimenter Seth Roberts, including the predictable reaction from hacker news. More on his cause of death has been provided on his blog, posted after FST recorded.

Food Safety Talk 60: Pour maple syrup on it

Food Safety Talk 59: You're thinking of Goldmember

Food Safety Talk 58: Where's my wallet?

The guys started the show by sharing some family traditions including watching Jeopardy and drinking Rooibos tea. They then discussed some raw milk questions posed by raw milk producer. Don suggested that there was specific scientific evidence to answer many of them. He also wondered about the scientific basis of some of the information presented in a recent RMI webinar. Don then shared that he'll be podcast cheating again on an upcoming Raw Food Real Talk episode on cottage food. The guys then transitioned to a recent cheese related Listeriosis outbreak affecting members of the Hispanic community. While health authorities have released some information on illnesses and the product there are many questions that are still to be answered. After a false start and then covering the last part of the IAFP History, the 2000's, Ben put out a call to listeners for important outbreaks and food safety landmarks that Ben and Don could discuss in the upcoming Outbreak Flashback segment. It will be groovy. And have a disco theme. The guys then turned to pizza and Alton Brown, who Don went to see live. Alton had dropped the pizza base before cooking it and that got Don worried about what message this was sending. Ben was amused by Alton's Twitter feed and fascinated by his earlier career. While on the pizza topic, Ben found some really stretched science reporting of this research article. The press release reminded the guys of Betteridge's law of headlines. The answer is always no. The discussion of media reminded Don of this Andrew Gelman post about how to get your university press release reprinted by The Washington Post. Don concluded that the best practices for engaging people are also despicable. Ben suggested sometimes science-types need to go to where people are engaged and sort of play the same game. To quote Merlin Mann from 43 Folders: "Joining a Facebook group about creative productivity is like buying a chair about jogging." To finish off, Ben raised the issue of consumers not following label instructions, as was the case with E. coli in Nestle Toll House Cookie Dough. Ben wanted to know how consumers learn about products and how to use those products. In the after dark the guys covered Picturelife, and Siri not having what Don was looking for, which he posted on Facebook.

The guys started the show following up on the previous episode, the write up on David Gumpert's website and the comments on the Internet. Theresa Lam also reached out wanting to know more about the risks associated with bootleg versus regulated raw milk. Despite raw milk drinker's hatred of epidemiologists, Don confessed that maybe he wants to be an epidemiologist, while Ben noted that he has admired them ever since the Jalapeno Saintpaul outbreak. Don also praised Petran, White and Hedberg, for their efforts to identify what items in a restaurant inspection were predictive of the possibility of an outbreak, and Ben's comments to USA Today on the topic. A quick round of "I think you're thinking of" with Howard Dean, and Roger Dean, not to be confused with Roger Dean followed. The guys then hopped back in time with the whizzinator before moving on to food storage mistakes and tortilla safety as prompted by Listener John Kimble. The guys covered the 1990's in the IAFP history segment, which also featured a discussion of 808, the Beastie Boys and the speed of Joe Walsh's Maserati. Ben identified the 1990's with the adoption of PFGE and rapid methods, while Don though the Mega Regs characterized the time. Ben recalled a recent discussion with Cathy Cutter about meat processing and how HACCP shaped other food safety regulations. The discussion then turned to Norovirus, prompted by a couple of recent noro outbreaks on the "Explorer of the Seas" and the Caribbean Princess, the boat that Chris Gunter boarded. Unfortunately, Chris couldn't find out whether the hand sanitizer on the ship was the one that works, though he was assured that it was "alcohol based". Ben wrapped up the noro discussion with the MoChunk resort outbreak. The guys talked about Netflix in the short after dark.

The guys started the show with a teaser about a guest later in the show and reminisced about past guests Mike Batz, Chris Gunter, Michelle Danyluk and the infamous Andreas Kiermeier. The guys then followed up on cashew cheese (FST 53) and how to reach food entrepreneurs about hazards an risk management and resources like NECFE or the NMPAN. The guys then wondered about selling food (unregulated) over the Internet, possibly for Bitcoin, and the Swiss Cheese Pervert. And Don remembered Mary's name. Then David Gumpert (The Complete Patient) came onto the show. David has written about raw milk and food rights including "The Raw Milk Revolution: Behind America's Emerging Battle over Food Rights" and "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights: The Escalating Battle Over Who Decides What We Eat". The guys invited David to come on the show as a follow-up to FST 53, Raw Milk Hampsterdam, and David's critique of it. For audiences most interested in raw milk topics, the conversation with David begins at 25:30. Discussion topics the group touched on included raw milk and consumer choice, including the Raw Milk Institute, David's follow-up post and the Real Food Real Talk - Raw Milk Revealed, the Minnesota study, CDC's Estimation Methods and Attribution of Foodborne Illness, FDA's raw milk risk assessment and failure to attend an IAFP sponsored raw milk meeting. In the after dark, which begins around 1:30:00, Don and Ben talked about Evernote, Habits, Shackelton Death or Glory, and Plan 9 from Outer Space.

The show started with Don sharing his recent [Systematic](http://5by5.tv/systematic/76) experience. Ben then wanted some help with a prevalence calculation, as prompted by his undergraduate lecturer [Ronald Brooks](http://www.uoguelph.ca/ib/people/faculty/brooks.shtml). The guys then reminisced about their high school teachers before turning on the freezing weather and frozen food, thanks to [AFFI-CON 2014](http://afficon.affi.org/). In answer to a listener question on the 4-hour rule, Don shared his [recent JFP paper](http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iafp/jfp/2013/00000076/00000006/art00023). Similar calculations (also by Don) have been used by a Conference for Food Protection (CFP) committee to develop guidance on lack of temperature control during emergency situations. That guidance will be presented as part of the [2014 CFP](http://www.foodprotect.org/). Thanks to the book ["I Wear the Black Hat"](http://www.amazon.com/Wear-Black-Hat-Grappling-Villains/dp/1439184496), Ben has really gotten back into heavy metal, especially [Metallica](https://www.metallica.com/), while Don's been re-reading [The Sandman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_(Vertigo)). This got the guys into a discussion of [DC Comics](http://www.dccomics.com/) versus [Marvel Comics](http://marvel.com/). In the IAFP History segment the guys covered the 1980's, which saw the introduction of new technologies, like vacuum packaging and irradiation, the emergence of new pathogens, such as [*E. coli* O157:H7](http://www.about-ecoli.com/), [*Listeria monocytogenes*](http://www.about-listeria.com/) and [*Campylobacter*](http://www.about-campylobacter.com/), as well as [zero tolerance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(trade)). The guys then speculated about the [*Salmonella* Stanley outbreak linked to raw cashew cheese](http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/stanley-01-14/index.html), before turning their attention to the [Fox and Donkey meat scandal in China](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/print/2014/01/chinas-latest-food-scandal-fox-tainted-donkey-meat/282776/) and the [potential zoonotic food safety risks associated with foxes](http://www.vef.unizg.hr/vetarhiv/papers/2006-76-7-10.pdf). Ben then got a buzz from the [12 Surprising things you can make with a coffee pot](http://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknutson/surprising-things-you-can-make-with-a-coffee-pot), because it reminded of his college days. He's considering including the [poaching chicken in a coffee maker](http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/08/macgyver-chef-poached-chicken-and-couscous-in-a-coffee-maker/) as part of the dishwasher cooking research project discussed on earlier episodes. While there was plenty of wacky stuff on the interwebs over the holidays, [this Wall Street Journal article about a frog in a Pret A Manger salad](http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/12/30/dead-frog-found-in-pret-a-manger-salad/) got Don all jumpy about Pret A Manger's knowledge about pesticides and food safety. The guys finished the show discussing the Food Safety News article on "[How to Break a Foodborne Illness Story](http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/01/publishers-platform-how-to-break-a-foodborne-illness-story/)." In the after dark, Ben shared his work habits and this turned into a discussion of Don and Ben's favourite [Starbucks](http://www.starbucks.com/). The guys then shared some movies and TV shows they like, including [Saving Mr Banks](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2140373/), [American Hustle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1800241/?ref_%3Dfn_al_tt_1), [Back to the Future](http://www.universalstudiosentertainment.com/back-to-the-future-25th-anniversary-edition/) (I, II and III), [Honey, I shrunk the Kids](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097523/), [Despicable me](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323594/), [Call the Midwife](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_the_Midwife) and [Last Tango in Halifax](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2216156/).

The guys battled Skype and CallRecorder, got bedazzled by The Smashing Pumpkins, got a twitter buzz from Beyonce's album, and got lathered up with FDA's focus on antibacterial soaps. They then shared some additional information they received from Cheryl Doom from the American Spice Trade Association (ASTA) on the spice story in FST 52. Cheryl explained why ASTA didn't have a response to the FDA risk assessment as reported in this NYT article and shared a guidance document ASTA had prepared in 2011. The discussion then turned to yet another pruno-related botulism outbreak in a Utah prison. Pruno has been discussed in FST 27 and the investigation of that outbreak has just been published in this paper, including the experimental Pruno recipe. In the IAFP History segment, Don shared Manan Sharma's article on the 1970's, which marked changes to food consumption, food safety and environmental trends, including HACCP and microwaves. After a short 1970's detour to Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus Vol 1, Ben marveled about the advances in microwave technology, including the magnetron. While Ben's new microwave exceeded his cooking expectation, Trader Joe's cooking instructions for Mac & Cheese fell short. In contrast to Trader Joe's, who don't have a social media presence, Don did like Publix who asked for a haiku on Twitter. Don then shared his latest irritation with Fightbac.org. It was prompted by their latest campaign called Bac Down and the misinformation that Listeria monocytogenes can grow at temperatures as low 32 deg F and not 40 deg F. The guys challenged listeners to send in their creative Bac-themed puns for great prices! Ben then wanted to talk about meat in pants, or more specifically Jeffery Arthur Feehan who tried to shoplift meat in his pants. But Ben wasn't quite so worried simply because store employees put the meat back on the shelf (a big yuck factor!), but that Jeffrey took the meat to the restroom for his pants stuffing misdemeanor. Jeffrey's comment to the judges reminded Ben of a famous Animal House quote. The discussion then turned to a recent paper on Raw Milk Consumption. While the underreporting aspect got some publicity, Ben was worried that all the information wasn't going to change people's mind. This had been highlighted in this article on Michigan consumers of raw milk and that's got to do with raw milk proponents not trusting health officials. Ben then remembered the "The Abuela project", an example of an innovative approach to overcoming the difficulty of developing successful education campaigns. The challenge of course is how to develop a campaign when raw milk sales are illegal (as is the case in some states). Maybe a Raw Milk Hamsterdam is the solution?

The guys started the show dreaming about a Red Mac Pro. They then turned to the passing of Bill Keene. Bill has been mentioned in various FST episodes and was a well respected epidemiologist as seen in the articles by the Oregonian and Doug Powell. The guys then turned to their beverages, Coffee Club, Napoleon Dynamite, Homeland, and Car Talk. Ben shared his preference for Aussie Rule football and Arcade Fire's album Reflektor. The conversation then turned to Don's limited iPhone music library, Privateering and Dire Straights, which reminded Ben of Money for Nothing and WWE Wrestling (not WWF Wrestling). To finish they talked about Christmas music, Bad Religion's Christmas Songs, Coulton and Roderick's One Christmas at a Time and Horrible Christmas songs. Ben confused IAFP's History with Bug Trivia and shared Julian Cox's information about the 1960's, and this evolved into a broader discussion about the IAFP and its membership. The discussion then turned back to Bill Keene and some of the outbreaks he had been involved in. This included a Salmonella Panama outbreak (not to be confused with Van Halen's Panama), which was the first outbreak that was solved through the innovative use of supermarket loyalty cards and that Bill and others were sued for (the lawsuit was eventually dropped.. The guys then discussed outbreak investigation in some detail and that public health officials are damned if they do and damned if they don't name commodities and suppliers. There is of course always a risk of getting the epidemiology wrong, as was the case with Salmonella Saintpaul in peppers. Finally, Bill's investigation of a Norovirus outbreak reminded Ben of a recent Norovirus outbreak in Las Vegas. Then Ben commented on an exchange with Chris Gunter, who was presenting on traceability for small producers at the 2013 Strawberry Expo. Chris' presentation is based on the investigation of an E. coli O157 outbreak related to strawberries, in which Bill Keene played a part. In the after dark, the guys reflected on mortality and that we should all Enjoy Every Sandwich. And because they love him, Rob Ford got a mention again and again.

Food Safety Talk 51: Pee on the radiator

The guys started the show with a Flamingo flash back, Don’s iTunes Radio “Grateful Dead” channel experiment (sans Katy Perry and Kanye West), New Girl with Zooey Deschanel, She & Him, Steve Earle, The Walking Dead, the Pulling the String podcast, and The Lone Ranger. Don then shared how he used the Internet’s way-back machine (not to be confused with Mister Peabody’s WABAC Machine) to get around the black-out of US government websites. Ben then turned to an NPR article about the Niche Meat Processor Assistance Network and a Kickstarter campaign to create an open source HACCP plan. This lead into a broader discussion of the work undertaken by extension specialists, Don’s ‘useless’ Twitter exchange and how to find out about food safety using Let Me Google That For You. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared information from the IAFP History book about the 1950’s and an increased focus on preventing foodborne illness. Don then returned to his recent Twitter exchange about hand washing with @Frankly and @danbenjamin, which included this article from About.com. The article, which referenced unpublished work from 2000 by Barbara Almanza on hand sanitizers, got the guys fired up about the regulatory system and undertaking effective research on the assessing the efficacy of hand sanitizers. After taking yet another detour into the world of The Wire, the guys returned to hand sanitizers and discussed some research articles, including: Effectiveness of Liquid Soap and Hand Sanitizer against Norwalk Virus on Contaminated Hands Improved inactivation of nonenveloped enteric viruses and their surrogates by a novel alcohol-based hand sanitizer Comparative efficacy of seven hand sanitizers against murine norovirus, feline calicivirus, and GII.4 norovirus Management of Risk of Microbial Cross-Contamination from Uncooked Frozen Hamburgers by Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer To finish this monster show, the guys briefly touched on Foster Farms fiasco, which they’ve kept on their list of things to discuss next time. By the time the after dark came around Don was contemplating a career in pottery, while Ben favored rolling cigars for a living.

The show started with Don and Ben sharing their love for iOS7 and iTunes Radio. Ben's still on his Beach Boys trip, having recently watched Beautiful Dreamer. The discussion then quickly turned to food safety follow up. Ben wasn't happy with his Food Safety News interview on dishwasher cooking and the message that he might have sent. Don felt that a really important aspect was the multitude of variables that can change from one dishwasher to another and hence that it was difficult be safe. The guys then discussed some listener feedback about safety of low sugar jellies, which was related to the work of one of Don's master's student. The listener commended the work on low sugar jellies, which will help provide important information to existing Cottage Food Guidelines. The guys then delved into the effects of water activity, pH, sugar contents for the safety of the preserving process and how some products, such as the Cronut Maple Jam, fall far outside the known safe zone. This got Ben onto the Toronto Public Health investigation update on the Cronut Burger outbreak, which was related to the already risky jam not being refrigerated by the producer or the vendor who purchased it. Don then gave Amy Jane Gruber, from Just The Tip podcast, a plug for her participation in the Fare Walk for Food Allergy. You might even hear her on a future FST episode. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared the initial editorial from the journal of milk technology, which while written in 1937 still resonates strongly with today's food safety activities. Ben then described personal challenge he has urinating in his office building without getting splash back. This reminded the guys of the aerosolization in the bathroom and potential risk that this can pose. Ben then recalled the UPI story about a Swedish man urinating on supermarket produce. While urine is normally sterile, Ben wondered about the risks. While Don couldn't quantify the risk on the spot, he noted that in HACCP terms hand washing after a bowel movement was a CCP while after peeing it could be considered a GHP. But both agreed that sick workers just shouldn't be at work. The discussion then turned to raw milk cheeses, which was prompted by the Gort's Gouda raw milk cheese related outbreak in Canada. Don noted that the rate of inactivation in a particular product was more important that just a '60-day limit' say. That's because the final risk is integrally related to the starting concentration and the inactivation rate. To finish off the podcast Don wanted to talk about the Food Safety News article on food date labels, which was based on this NRDC work. While Don agreed that date labels were confusing, he was also rather sceptical of the underlying work. In the after dark, the guys talked about the new markdown format for the shownotes and planned their podcasting schedules for the next few episodes.

The guys started the show with some general chit chat about The Beer Store and [The Nail Shop](http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-nail-shop-omaha), the [Beach Boys](http://www.thebeachboys.com/), including "[Pet Sounds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds)", Chuck Berry, [Bed Bad Baaaaaaatz](http://badbatz.tumblr.com/), Don's [Etymotic hf5 earphones](http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/hf5.html), Twitter, (including [this discussion](https://twitter.com/bugcounter/status/373254508580573184)), and [Barbara M. O'Neill](http://njaes.rutgers.edu/personnel/individual.asp?id%3D416)'s great work. Prompted by a [link](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2398775/30-C-laundry-cycles-breed-bacteria-transfer-germs-underwear-tea-towels.html) from Alejandro Amezquita the guys then turned their attention to laundry and in the process gave the phrase "Eat My Shorts!"meaning. In the article, [Lisa Ackerley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Ackerley) discussed the hygiene of laundering. The guys recalled a couple of research articles by Chuck Gerba related to the topic ([here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135491900969) and [here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445301908527)). Neither Don nor Ben were particularly worried about this. This reminded Ben of [The Salt article](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/08/25/214799882/dishwasher-cooking-make-your-dinner-while-cleaning-the-plates) on cooking food in the dishwasher. The guys discussed the potential risk of this approach and the sciences that is needed. Another [The Salt article on washing poultry had also resulted in a large amount of social media engagement, which is something the Don and Ben are always keen to explore. And both enjoyed Alton Brown's proper method for washing out th inside of a whole poultry. The guys then moved onto the bug trivia replacement segment called Food Safety History, in honour of a 100 years of the IAFP Journal of Food Protection. In this episode the Don covered the [pre 1940 era](http://www.foodprotection.org/100years/articles/100-yrs-of-iafp-pre-1940.pdf). It all started with the Journal of Milk Technology and the connection with raw milk reminded Ben of this [Toronto Star article](http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/09/30/two_crusaders_a_competing_cause_ontarios_raw_milk_saga.html). Don then wanted to talk about this [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/world/asia/farmers-change-over-spices-link-to-food-ills.html), related to *Salmonella* in spices, and the related [Food Microbiology article](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0740002012002171). Don posed Ben the questions that he was asked for a Q&A based Rutgers media release on this topic and the guys compared their answers. The guys then got fired up about the [Cronut Burger related outbreak article by [Jason Tetro](http://www.foodsafetynews.com/author/jtetro/#.UidMtBabS0s). Ben didn't quite agree with some of Jason's assumptions, so Ben queried the manufacturers about the parameters of the product, which [Le Dolci didn't know](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid%3D10153155762045720&id%3D305381935719). Ben eventually found the answer from Toronto Public Health, and was able to set the record straight To finish off, Don mentioned [The New Disruptors](http://newdisrupt.org/) podcast, which featured [Marisa McClellan](http://foodinjars.com/) in Episode 38 "Yes, we can!"talk about food preservation. Don was pleasantly surprised by her knowledge, including of the National Center for Home Food Preservation. In the after dark the guys continued with canning, including [Canvolution](https://twitter.com/Canvolution), [Canning Across America](http://www.canningacrossamerica.com/) and pink flamingos for their 50th episode.