Leading Saints Podcast

Liz Wiseman, is first, a loving mother and an incredible saint in the gospel. She's a Brigham Young University graduate, lives in Silicon Valley and has experience as an executive at Oracle Corporation. That career led her into leadership research and now teaches leadership to executives and emerging leaders internationally. I have been looking forward to getting Liz on the podcast. She has been extremely charitable to me with her time and guidance as I have built Leading Saints. I contacted her years ago and explained my vision of Leading Saints. Even as a best-selling author she still took the time to coach me over the phone and has deeply influenced what Leading Saints is today. I had the opportunity to attend a training Liz did in the California Fresno Mission a few years back when President Larry Gelwix presided over that mission. It was an incredible experience and I learned so much from her at that time. In this interview Sister Wiseman gives priceless advice for LDS leaders regarding that following question: How can you allow others to drop the ball and succeed as a leader? How can a leader hold others accountable? What is genius watching and how can an LDS leader us it? How can bishoprics improve ward council? I look forward to having Sister Liz Wiseman back on the podcast in the future. There was just too many questions to ask with so limited of time. Go buy her books and follow her impact. I have also referenced her work in other posts: More Liz Wiseman interviews with Leading Saints Get Out of the Way—Allow Natural Consequences to Happen Are You a Multiplier or a Diminisher?

Meetings in the Church—it's a love/hate thing. Rarely do people enjoy attending meetings but we still discover ways to plan more meetings. This may come across as a blunt message, but meetings are either well done or toxic and it's important that leaders get them right. How you run a meeting has a dramatic influence on how you are loved as a leader. If you run a good meeting, those who follow you will be more willing to serve you. If you run a bad meeting, the only thing to increase is the eye-rolling. I want to use Ward Council as the model in this post, but this information can be applied to most meetings within the church. When I say meeting I am not referring to any meetings in the 3 hour block. I'm talking about council meetings (ward council, presidency meetings, stake high council, etc.). Handbook 2 (18.2) tells us that ward council should be held "regularly (at least monthly)." I've heard about general authorities visiting local stakes and encouraging bishops to hold ward council more than just once a month. Some are even mandating ward council to be held weekly. I get it. I don't think these authorities are trying to torture anyone with more meetings. They want the ward council to work together more often and elevate the ward in general; however, I'm not sure if scheduling more meetings is the answer. I'm not saying meeting as a ward council more often is a bad idea; but if you do, make sure you set some clear objectives and rules. Elder David A. Bednar said: If I had the wish of my heart, I would remove from the vocabulary of the Latter-day Saints the word meeting. We have not been talking about a ward council meeting. We've been talking about a revelatory experience with the members of the ward council. And if members of councils, if members of families, as they come together, would think in terms of “I’m preparing to participate in a revelatory experience with my family” instead of going to a meeting—a revelatory experience with the members of the ward council—I think we would prepare and act much differently. In these latter days, given the forces of the adversary and the darkness, no one person in the family and no one person in a ward is going to be the conduit through which all of the answers come. So all of that speaks to the spiritual nature of this work and seeking for the inspiration to do what the Lord wants us to do. (2010 World Wide Leadership Training) So let's agree that you won't hold another meeting unless you have sufficiently outlined it as a revelatory experience. If it isn't, cancel it; it isn't worth holding a meeting that is anything different. In an effort to do this, let's review the 7 Unbreakable Rules of Church Meetings 7 Unbreakable Rules of Church Meetings 1. 60 Minute Limit (seriously) Handbook 2 (4.6) advises ward council should be 60-90 minutes in duration. This is nice encouragement for those holding 3 hour meetings (you should be ashamed), but in reality there is no meeting that needs to go longer than 60 minutes. Do you disagree? (please comment below) Meetings longer than 60 minutes damage your effectiveness as a leader. Nobody enjoys them and they need to stop. If you can't help but go over the 1 hour mark, then you need more discipline through a timer. If you need help with not getting carried away in a meeting, your next meeting should have a kitchen timer present.

Curtis Lebaron teaches in the Department of Organizational Leadership and Strategy at BYU. I first was introduced to Curtis LeBaron when I listened to his BYU devotional talk he gave in July 2009. I was extremely impressed by his research experience and thought it applied so well to church leadership. I later contacted Curtis LeBaron and asked if he would be willing to allow me to ask him some questions about his research and see how we could apply it to typical church leadership. He graciously agreed and I had a wonderful hour interview with him. ETHNOGRAPHY Professor LeBaron's main focus in research is through a method called ethnography. Ethnography is the study and systematic recording of human cultures. It's typically used in anthropology. Here’s what Professor LeBaron had to say about it: Research methods are kind of a menu of choices and they all have strengths and weaknesses. Most of the social science research that has been done in the last 50 years or so has been informed by psychological model of understanding. Of course research methods and theory need to be compatible in any kind of research project. I am speaking in very broad terms so please understand that I am generalizing probably irresponsibility. Psychologists have been very good at experimental methods often bringing people into a laboratory where they study under controlled conditions. How people behave, how they make decisions, how they live in the social world. A lot of insights have come from that kind of work. But one of the weaknesses of that approach to study human behavior and trying to understand people in that way is that it removes people from the natural environment in which they live and work and behave on a day to day basis. To some extent the argument goes, who we are is related to where we are; who we are is related to the situations in which we behave. As soon as we separate ourselves from our contexts we are no longer who we are within our context. So ethnographic approaches which come not from the field of psychology but from the field of anthropology primarily--they try and understand people by looking at people within their natural circumstances or situation or context and of course when one does that the downside is that we can’t control those conditions because they are naturally occurring so they are not laboratory like settings where variables can be control and hypotheses can be tested. So we have to study people and learn about them by looking closely sometimes conducting interviews. And my research comes from that kind of a tradition. Now there is kind of a twist on that which is when I go into a situation I don’t just observe I make audio and video records of people actually going about their work, conducting meetings, having conversations, making plans, forming strategies, developing new ideas, foster innovation--all those sorts of things. Things that can be captured on video tape. They can be carefully analyzed and studied and those details that come from the recorded data can be examined against a backdrop of understanding that come from interviews or documents and histories. And so it’s a different approach to research than most people take. Imagine what could be learned about leaders if we recorded typical Elder Quorums or Relief Societies around the church. This probably wouldn't be realistic, but thankfully church leadership principles can be very similar to those in the secular world. The following interview explains what Professor Lebaron learned from his research and how it can be related to LDS church leadership. Interview with Professor Curtis LeBaron Leading Saints: Is there anything from your research that you have discovered as far as leadership goes that could tie over with leading in the church?

A story told by Elder Marvin J. Ashton in the April 1985 General Conference A few years ago I was in my office about 6:30 A.M. I am mentioning that so you will know I was there early—it takes some of us a little longer. My phone rang, and as I answered it, I recognized that special voice that said, “Marvin.” I replied, “Yes, President Kimball.” He said, “Could I come up and see you?” His office is on the first floor, and mine is on the third. (That is the only time I am ever higher than he is.) My reply was, “President Kimball, if you want to see me, I will be right down.” He then responded with, “Would you do that?” He did not exhibit any authority. There was no feeling of “Do you know who this is?” or “You’d better come.” He courteously asked, “Could I come up and see you?” When I told him I would be right down, his voice reflected gratitude as he said, “Will you do that?” I went to his office in a hurry. After we shook hands, he handed me a letter and said, “How would you answer this?” I read it quickly and said, “President Kimball, you might want to consider this approach,” and told him what I thought. “I agree,” he said. “That is my thinking also.” He shook my hand, and I was on my way, reflecting about a prophet who asks for counsel and puts himself above no man.

Heather Mecham was born and raised in Indiana. Moved to Utah about 20 years ago and currently lives in West Jordan, Utah. She has two daughters ages 14 and 17. Until recently she had been serving as the Young Womens President in her ward until her husband was called as the Bishop. Heather first reached out to Kurt after his interview with @ldsEQpres recorded in May 2014 to give positive feedback she had received from that episode about creating a fellowshipping plan in the Young Women's organization. In this episode she talks about how she continues to lead as a 2nd Counselor in the Young Women's organization as well as her previous experience in the Relief Society and Primary. Leadership Principles Discussed Include * Being a Shadow Leader and Coach and not the Class President as a Youth Leader * The process she follows to help class presidencies fulfill their duties as outlined in Handbook 2 : 10.3.5 * “We succeed when we invite.” * Idea taken from Clayton Christensen's, ‘The Power of Everyday Missionaries’ * Stand on Doorsteps: "Nimrod or Bust" * In Ether 1:42 the Lord commands the Brother of Jared to, “head of them down into the valley which is northward. And there will I meet thee…” In Ether 2:4 we read that the Lord met them in the valley of Nimrod and gave them instruction on how to build their barges that would take them to the promised land. * Heather relates that when she feels prompted to make a visit it may not always be clear in the moment what the intention of that visit is, but when she goes to the doorsteps of these individuals the Lord meets her there. * Take Good Care of What You Already Have * Prepare Spiritually and then Get Out of the Way and Let the Spirit Teach * Come Follow Me Youth Curriculum Other Tools and Links Referenced * Evernote * Pinterest Links * Courtney Taylor * Diane Pike * Brittany Clark * Heather's personal Pinterest board * LDS Gospel Library App * Facebook Groups A big thanks to Jon Albright for writing the summary for this interview.

Brian Crane is the creator of Pickles Comic Strip (see more information below about Brian and Pickles), which is the fullfilment of a childhood dream. He is a life-long member of the Church who was born in Twin Falls, Idaho and raised in the San Francisco Bay area. Brian served in the Uruguay Paraguay mission (the same mission as Steven Shallenberger whose interview you can listen to here). He attended BYU (where he met and married his college sweetheart) and majored in graphic design. He worked as a graphic designer and art director for many years when in his late 30s his childhood dream returned. He pursued it and has now been drawing the comic for 25 years from his studio in Sparks, Nevada. Brian often includes LDS references (temple pictures on the walls or quotes from church leaders, for example) in the comic. Brian has served many years as a Scout Master and was recently called to be the 11-year-old Scout leader. Prior to this, he was serving as a counselor in a Young Single Adults ward bishopric. In that capacity he worked with the Relief Society. He has also served as a high counselor and in several other bishoprics. Leadership Principles * Learn names quickly * Appreciate enthusiasm of those you serve * Leadership training * train from the Handbook 2: Administering the Church * Make callings meaningful * Be a self-starter * Building effective relationships with other leaders * To find joy in your life, serve! * Do good in all aspects of your life Other Information * The Art of Making Pickles from BYU Magazine * Bio from PicklesComic.com * About Pickes (from WashingtonPost.com) * Read his daily strip at GoComics   Thanks to Nathan Waldron for writing the summary of this interview.

Steven R. Shallenberger is the father of six grown children (five boys, one girl) and lives in Provo, Utah. His journey started in Vallejo, California where he learned about setting goals (he counted down to the time he could serve a mission--2,153 days). It is during this count-down that he was exposed to different economic conditions through various jobs he had and he began to wonder “what makes the difference between those who are successful on a sustainable basis and those who are not?” Years later, at 27, Steve bought his first business and published illustrated stories of the presidents of the church (check out some of the books on Amazon) and began teaching his employee leadership skills. During this time he worked closely with Steven R. Covey (author of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) and then-Elder Thomas S. Monson (His relationships with both on these inspirational men are discussed in the interview). He later worked for Covey Leadership Center and founded an energy services company, Synergy Companies, in California. He currently serves as a Branch President in the Provo, Utah Missionary Training Center. Previously he has served as a Stake President, Mission President (Spain Madrid), Stake Young Men's President, Bishop (first time at 27) and others. Steve recently completed a national best-selling book, Becoming Your Best, which is the culmination of his life-long pursuit of excellence.  Becoming Your Best identifies 12 “guiding constants” that will help on your journey to become your best. Steve is Chairman of the leadership firm he founded, Becoming Your Best, where he works to help others throughout the world (he recently returned from a trip to Rwanda) be their best in their own lives, families and organizations. Steve’s favorite scripture is found in James 1:19, which states, “wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath” and he lives and teaches this principle through the 12 Guiding Constants. Steve effortlessly applies the 12 Guiding Constants to all areas of life * Be True to Character * Lead with a Vision * Manage with a Plan * Prioritize Your Time * Live the Golden Rule in Business and in Life * Build and Maintain Trust * Be an Effective Communicator * Innovate Through Imagination * Be Accountable * Apply the Power of Knowledge * Live in Peace and Balance * Never Give Up! Key Principles Discussed Establishing and maintaining a vision (for yourself, family, calling, work, etc.) Developing a plan to achieve the vision Having a positive mindset Moving from transactional leadership to transformational leadership Do you just interact with people or strive to develop them?   Thank you to Nathan Waldron for writing this summary of the interview.

A story about unity in councils and meetings. Listen to how Joseph F. Smith urges B. H. Roberts to change his perspective about a church policy regarding politics.

Oswaldo Tello is originally from Lima, Peru where he was baptized at the age of 18. While serving a mission a little more than a year after his baptism in the Peru Mission his family slowly began to join the church. After his mission he started his family and career in the banking industry. In 1992 he was called for the first time as a bishop and served until a job change came which moved he and his family to Chiclayo, Peru. He was subsequently called again as bishop but only served for 6 months before Elder Jay E. Jenson visited to form the Chiclayo Peru Latina Stake and call Oswaldo to serve as the stake president. Promotions and a new career focus came in the form of social and economic development which brought opportunities to live and serve in more native areas of Peru where he provided leadership in various branches. Moving back to life in the city has brought him the chance to serve as a bishop two more times including today where he currently lives in Arequipa where the church will be breaking ground on a new temple some time in 2015. Leadership principles discussed include: * What changes you experience having served as a bishop multiple times * What his interactions with General Authorities have taught him about humility * The unique challenges of administering welfare resources without the presence of a storehouse * How social and economic conditions require the modification of certain programs and youth activities. * How he relied on his wife as another counselor when it came to understanding the needs of the ward in general Shout out to Jon Albright for writing the summary for this podcast episode

This is an episode of random thoughts, I'd love to hear your random thoughts as well. My first thought is regarding the discussion of disciplinary councils. Have you participated in such councils? Has your experience been good? Bad? Spiritual? I shared some thoughts on the subject over at This Week in Mormons in my article titled Mormon Disciplinary Councils Aren't About Sin.  Please give the article a read and then share your thoughts below. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I'd love to have an open dialogue about the topic. I want to thank the This Week in Mormons team for allowing me to share my thoughts. They've been very good to me. I also received some fan mail this week! ;) I'm kidding, of course, but I did get an email from a faithful executive secretary that experienced an awkward ward council full of finger pointing and yelling. Here's what the email said: Thanks for creating such a great site and resource for members of the church. I'm currently the executive secretary in my ward and not technically a leader, but I enjoy learning about it. I especially like your Saint Nicholas talk :) I have a question though... have you experienced any conflict or dislike among the auxiliary leaders in your ward? If so, how did you handle or help the situation. In our ward council a few weeks ago there was finger pointing and a screaming match over not having enough butter at the ward Christmas party and the Relief Society president ended up storming out of the room. I had never seen people lose it in a setting like that, and I thought it was an isolated situation in a unique ward. However, a friend in our last ward mentioned that there was a conflict in one of his ward councils recently, and ended with the ward mission leader walking out. From what I saw, in both cases the Bishop's handled it well, but I am not sure what was said behind close doors. These may be isolated situations, but I'm sure that it happens else where in the church. How would you counsel in a situation like that? I'll keep reading and listening. Thanks. I give my response in the podcast episode, but in short, the solution to a situation like this comes from the book Crucial Accountability: Tools for Resolving Violated Expectations, Broken Commitments, and Bad Behavior.  If you haven't read this book, GO. READ. IT. NOW. It has had a great impact on my communication as a leader and helped me diffuse awkward situations. I'd love to hear how others would have handled this situation or other stories of when ward council blows up! :) Please comment below.

Mark Francis is the director of LDS-BSA Relations, which is a branch of the Boy Scouts of America that strives to maintain a positive and helpful relationship with the LDS church. In this interview we discuss: * A brief history of relationship between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Boy Scouts of America. * How LDS Scout troops differ from non-LDS Scout troops * The Green Scouting Handbook * Why LDS Scout Troops are based on geography * Option to combine scouting units, especially as it pertains to areas outside of Utah and Idaho * LDS Scouting Objectives (Purposes of the Aaronic Priesthood) * LDS members in non-LDS troops * False Traditions in LDS Troops * How to motivate LDS men called as Scout leaders * How to create an effective Scouting experience for boys not interested in the outdoors * The role of parents in Scouting * Scouting leadership trainings (i.e. Philmont Training) * More information about the Philmont Training * The future of the Boy Scouts of America's relationship with the LDS Church * Pres. Monson’s relationship with the BSA

Are you the same Bishop/President/Counselor/Teacher today as you were on week two of your calling? As you look back to the rookie you, are there ideas and a spark that made your new calling something exciting and your service such that benefited those you were called to serve? Has that changed if you’ve been in your calling for a while? If so, Liz Wiseman’s book Rookie Smarts: Why Learning Beats Knowing in the New Game of Work might be worth a read. While the book is written for the business world, drawing correlations to your church calling will be easy. A BYU grad, Sister Wiseman has shared in this work key insights from the world of leadership and how maintaining a rookie mindset can help you better serve and bring fresh perspective to your efforts. The best leaders are learners, and sometimes stepping outside of your status quo and asking a rookie what they would do in your situation can be enlightening. It may even help you recapture some of the same excitement and zeal you felt when you were first called. In this podcast, I share some of the take-aways I gained from reading the book and hope you’ll find reading “Rookie Smarts” as much help to you in your situation as I have in mine. Basic outline for this episode (including links): 4 Mindsets of Rookies (these are behaviors not personality types) * Backpacker * Nothing to lose - Nothing is weighing them down * Open to new possibilities * Unencumbered with best practices * Caretaker (opposite of Backpacker) * A reputation and past record to uphold * Burdened with expectations which leads to defensiveness * Limit what is possible and stay on the safe path * Hunter-Gatherer * Disoriented and forced to pay close attention to their surroundings * Seek out experts * Local Guide (opposite of Hunter-Gatherer) * Stay with what is comfortable * Dole out advice rather than seeking it * Experience and knowledge give them a false sense of confidence * Think like an advisor and simply guide others * Look for data that confirms what they already know - maintain their existing beliefs * Firewalker * Operate cautiously but quickly * Small calculated steps always seeking feedback * Marathoner (opposite of Firewalker) * They have already proved themselves * Tend to pace themselves and have a "steady as she goes mentality" * Take big "proven" steps * They assume they are still doing a good job * Pioneer * Improvise and work tireless for basic needs * Keep things simple * Outside comfort zone * Settler (opposite of Pioneer) * Working within the establishment and have basic needs met * Focused on just maintaining comfort * They rely on what's available * Follow protocol * Quote: “Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can’t lose.” -Bill Gates p54 * Everyone can get back to a rookie mindset. * Rookie smarts quiz (share your results in the comments) * Ways to get back to rookie mindset: * Ask naive questions * Wipe the slate * Let go of the monkey trap -- release your resources * Teleport yourself * Multiply your expertise -- build a network

I wasn't planning on posting this episode until I was on the treadmill this morning (burning off the various calories that I will be eating over the next 24 hours). As I ran I was watching a BYUtv movie titled Silent Night. I strongly recommend you watch this. It's a great Christmas movie and one that teaches great church leadership principles. It's also free to watch on BYUtv.org. After watching this movie my thoughts went to my message I shared with my ward this past Sunday. I thought it would be a simple and short message to share with the Leading Saints world. The story and information I share during my remarks can be found HERE. I adjusted a few parts just to be sure not to spoil any believing young parishioners. I hope you find the story of Saint Nicholas inspiring and a story that points you to the message of Jesus Christ. Merry Christmas!

This story was shared by Elder Carl B. Cook in the October 2011 General Conference. At the end of a particularly tiring day toward the end of my first week as a General Authority, my briefcase was overloaded and my mind was preoccupied with the question “How can I possibly do this?” I left the office of the Seventy and entered the elevator of the Church Administration Building. As the elevator descended, my head was down and I stared blankly at the floor. The door opened and someone entered, but I didn’t look up. As the door closed, I heard someone ask, “What are you looking at down there?” I recognized that voice—it was President Thomas S. Monson. I quickly looked up and responded, “Oh, nothing.” (I’m sure that clever response inspired confidence in my abilities!) But he had seen my subdued countenance and my heavy briefcase. He smiled and lovingly suggested, while pointing heavenward, “It is better to look up!” As we traveled down one more level, he cheerfully explained that he was on his way to the temple. When he bid me farewell, his parting glance spoke again to my heart, “Now, remember, it is better to look up.” As we parted, the words of a scripture came to mind: “Believe in God; believe that he is … ; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth.” As I thought of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ’s power, my heart found the comfort I had sought in vain from the floor of that descending elevator. Since then I have pondered this experience and the role of prophets. I was burdened and my head was down. As the prophet spoke, I looked to him. He redirected my focus to look up to God, where I could be healed and strengthened through Christ’s Atonement. That is what prophets do for us. They lead us to God.

Jon Clark (a.k.a. Honest Jon....a.k.a. J.D. Clark) is from Knoxville, TN. He has served as an executive secretary, bishopric counselor, and is currently serving in his ward's Young Men's Presidency. He works full-time creating music for television shows. In his part-time he is making members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint laugh through his Honest Jon comics. Check out his website and subscribe to his newsletter. You can also hear him interviewed on the Mormon Channel with some other cartoonists. Buy his book When the High Priests Take Over the Nursery   If you want to check out my not-as-funny cartoons visit drawYOUfunny.com