Leading Saints Podcast

In this episode we head all the way over to El Puerto de Santa Maria and interview Bishop Tony Batanero. You will find this interview inspiring as we discuss his conversion to the gospel, his service as a full time missionary in Missouri and Canada. He shares his experience of losing his mother during his mission and how that impacted his testimony. He claims that the best calling in the Church is stake executive secretary. He served in that calling for 6 years and was then called in September of 2015 as the bishop of his ward. He also talked about the influence that leader around him have made on his own personal leadership. He has learned how to love those in his ward, how to follow the spirit, and how to show great leadership. He has a great approach to studying the handbook and why the handbook is so important in our service. Interviews like this remind me that Church leadership is in good hands around the world. I'm very grateful for Bishop Batanero.

Shawn Hammond is a bishop in Colorado Spring, Colorado. He's also had the opportunity to serve as a Young Men's president, elders quorum president, and was also blessed to serve in the California Sacramento Mission in the early 2000's. In this episode we talk about his 5 pillars of leadership as well as topics like helping families through a tragic loss. Another great interview! Bishop Hammond's 5 Leadership Principles It really is about the "ONE." "We must develop the capacity to see men not as they are at present but as they may become when they receive testimonies of the gospel of Christ." President Thomas S. Monson Don’t be satisfied just doing things the way others in similar positions do them. Err on the side of mercy and compassion. Your most important calling isn’t in the Church, but in your home. Links: Are We Not All Beggars? Elder Jeffrey R. Holland Doctrine & Covenants 121: 43 - "Reproving betimes with sharpness..."

We hear it all the time in sacrament meeting; the invitation, coming from the lectern, to "stand after your name is read." This means members of your ward are getting a calling. Most callings that are extended to us require no leadership responsibilities. Maybe they are simply asking you to watch over small children, or organize an activity. These callings don't feel like a leadership calling, but they should. Leadership is born in the individual who realizes they can make a difference as a primary teacher, a deacon's quorum adviser, a home teacher, or even a door greeter. A few months back I was recommended the book Tribes: We Need You to Lead Us. The recommendation to read this book was delivered to me in such a way that I bought the book the same day. The author, Seth Godin would be described as a marketing genius in the business world, but I would describe him as a leadership genius that talks about marketing. Quite frankly, marketing has a lot to do with leadership. If you don't know how to transfer (or sell) your idea to those you lead you may not reach success. The idea that impacted me the most in this book was Leading From the Bottom on page 19. It reads: The skeptical among us look at the idea of leadership and we hesitate. We hesitate because it feels like something we need to be ordained to do. That without authority, we can't lead. That big organizations reserve leadership for the CEO, not for us. Perhaps you work at a big organization. Perhaps you feel as though there's just too much resistance to change. Here's a question: Is your organization stiffer than the Pentagon? More bureaucratic or formalized? Thomas Barnett changed the Pentagon. From the bottom. No, he wasn't on KP duty, but he was close. He had no status, no rank--he was just a researcher with a big idea. Here's what the Wall Street Journal said: Mr. Barnett overhauled the concept to address more directly the post-9/11 world. The result is a three-hour PowerPoint presentation that more resembles performance art than a Pentagon briefing. It's making Mr. Barnett, 41 years old, a key figure in the debate currently raging about what the modern military should look like. Senior military officials say his decidedly controversial ideas are influencing the way the Pentagon views its enemies, vulnerabilities and future structure. It's simple, really. Barnett led a tribe that was passionate about change. He galvanized them, inspired them, and connected them, through his idea. One man with no authority suddenly becomes a key figure. Tribes give each of us the very same opportunity. Skill and attitude are essential. Authority is not. In fact, authority can get in the way. You do not need access to a stage in front of hundreds of people in order to lead. Leaders don't inspire masses, they inspire individuals, and you can be surrounded by individuals in any calling extended to you. I hope that nobody waits for a title before they decide to lead. Lead because you able to lead, not because you are asked to lead.

Adam Barrow is a BYU graduate, accountant, father, past elders quorum president, elders quorum counselor, executive secretary, and currently serves as the secretary in his elders quorum. These are various callings he has received while living in San Francisco, California, Raleigh, North Carolina, and Salt Lake City, Utah. In this interview we discuss 5 solid leadership principles that Brother Barrow has followed in his leadership service. He also shares how he tracks home teaching as the quorum secretary; possibly a admin hack you want to use as well. 1- Don't let management get in the way of leadership This principle is rooted in Hugh Nibley's classic talk "Leaders and Managers" I came across several years ago: It's an incredible discourse that provides some very thought provoking insight about leadership vs management, including the interesting uses of the term "management" in the Book of Mormon, and contrasting key figures within who represent management (Amalickiah) vs those who represent leadership (Captain Moroni). 2. Remember the importance of asking the right question This comes from two of Clayton Christensen's writings/talks: * My Ways are Not Your Ways * The Importance of the right question (given at the J. Reuben Clark Law Society Conference) In the second talk particularly, he gives some interesting personal examples about asking the right question within the context of our church callings. "Unfortunately, too many of us are so eager to debate and get on with the right answer and the solution, that we often forget even to think about whether the right question has been asked. Lawyers pride themselves on their ability to ask penetrating questions, but I honestly think that the only people who are worse than lawyers at asking the right questions are business managers; and that the only people who are worse than managers at asking the right questions are Mormons." -Elder Clayton Christensen 3. Remember the Lord's metric "I realized that God in contrast to us, does not need the tools of statisticians or accountants. So far as I know, He has no organization charts. There is no need to aggregate anything beyond the level of an individual person in order to comprehend completely what is going on among humankind. His only measure of achievement is the individual." - Elder Clayton Christensen (How will you Measure Your Life pg 202) It's easy for us to get caught up in measuring others against our own notion of a correct standard, when our finite minds can't fully appreciate the context of where a person is on their own spiritual journey. That's not to acknowledge of course certain standards that ecclesiastical leaders must adhere to and hold others accountable to in certain situations. But we can compartmentalize people rather generally without taking the time to ask the Lord to help us see that individual as He sees them. I love the following quote from President Eyring, who provides a very important reminder about Who we all need to look to for help. As leaders we are there simply to help people remember that. "When I was a young man, I served as counselor to a wise district president in the Church. He tried to teach me. One of the things I remember wondering about was this advice he gave: “When you meet someone, treat them as if they were in serious trouble, and you will be right more than half the time.   "I thought then that he was pessimistic.

There is a considerable amount of loneliness in leadership. Some days, as a leader, feel like loneliness is all that exists. The rough days of leadership send my mind to the words of President Hinckley in 1969. The speech was later titled The Loneliness of Leadership. It has become one of my favorite talks he gave because it talks so directly to the weight of leadership. So much so, that I play a clip from the talk to begin every Leading Saints podcast episode. Elder Hinckley had been an apostle for 8 years at the time of this BYU talk and little did he realize the responsibility that would be placed on his shoulders in the coming years, and the loneliness he would feel. In this episode I share various clips from this talk and how they are so applicable to leading in modern day, as they were in 1969. It's a powerful talk that will resonate with all leaders. After listening, please share your impressions in the comments section below.  

Let's face it! The only people that are qualified to be bishop are those that have a PhD in human psychology, a masters in Family Relations, and an MBA from Stanford for good measure. The type of problems and crises church leaders face are sometimes staggering. Thankfully, each bishop holds the priesthood, is blessed with keys, and has awesome support (counselors, ward council, etc.). President Monson put it best, "Whom the Lord calls, the Lord qualifies." Because of this, there are many bishops who are no more than trained plumbers, lawyers, salesmen, or even high school dropouts. Even though the Lord qualifies leaders to serve in their capacity doesn't mean he qualifies them in the minds of those they lead. I recently read a book called Permission Marketing. As I read the book there was a consistent thought that applied to church leadership—that is: to find more opportunities to ask those you lead for permission to be their leader. For example, just because you are the bishop does not mean members of your ward feel comfortable setting an appointment and sharing their deepest struggles with you. Many look at you as what you appear to be—just a plumber. If Thou Be the [Relief Society President], Tell Us Plainly Let's take the perspective of the Relief Society. In the scriptures we learn followers of Christ know His voice and follow Him. In John chapter 10 it states: 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.  24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.  25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.  26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.  27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: When you are called to leadership you are given the title, but that doesn't mean they "hear [your] voice...and follow [you]." Many in the Relief Society are subconsciously asking, "If thou be the [Relief Society president], tell us plainly." Or in other words, "give us reason to follow you." Gaining Permission to Lead Getting those in your group to cross the chasm of trust and give you permission to be their leader is not an easy task—nor is there a perfect solution for all cases. This is accomplished through prayer and asking the Lord for spiritual direction on how to approach each situation. More often than not, the opportunity to win their permission happens on a one-to-one level. Reaching out to them specifically validates them and lets them know that you care. There may be times when you hear an individual is frustrated with your leadership style or a specific program you are pushing. These negative comments do not always mean that the person has a bad attitude and needs to repent. It simply means that you haven't earned their permission to be their leader. Acknowledge that stage of the relationship and make plans to earn that permission through one-to-one contact. Other individuals don't even realize that they haven't given you permission to lead them. For this reason, it is important you are constantly working to reach out to individuals and validate them. I can think of many experiences when I reached out to an individual through a letter, or a phone call, or simply tried to get to know them briefly in the church hallway. Many of those people have scheduled appointments with me to discuss specific struggles. They never would have sought me out if I didn't first seek them out to "ask permission to be their bishop."

Kevin Hallstrom lives in Honolulu, Hawaii and is a school teacher by day while serving in his local ward as the bishop. In this episode we discuss how he leads and what leadership principles have become pillars in his service. He has a great command of the scriptures and relates all his leadership suggestions to scriptural experiences. We also spend some time talking about his professional teaching career and how leaders can become better teachers. Bishop Hallstorm's Leadership Principles: * Don’t you know that you mean everything to me?  - 3 Nephi 8:23-25, 9:13, 11: 14 - 17. * "As for years - D&C 51: 16-17 * Spiritual growth occurs as we set individuals up for positive, powerful experiences.  - 1 Nephi 16:18-25. * "For Behold, this is my church" - Mosiah 26:10, 13 - 29. * Approaching the Atonement of Christ - 1 Nephi 8: 10 - 12, 21 - 33 "Teaching is not talking and telling. Rather, teaching is observing, listening and discerning so we then know what to say."  -  David A. Bednar, A Discussion with Elder Bednar, S&I Training Broadcast, May 2012.

Recently I had lunch with a friend. This wasn't just a friend, but also a past bishopric counselor of mine. At the time of our lunch, I had recently been released as bishop and he had recently been called as bishop in a different ward. These scenarios led to a discussion about leadership vacuums. What is a leadership vacuum? Metaphorically speaking, it's the space left behind by a previous leader. The responsibilities the leader performed, and the information only he or she had access to. In a Church calling, when an authoritative person is released, that vacuum of space collapses on itself and causes issues. This might be made manifest in the form of how the previous leader managed the week-to-week schedule, or how he or she emphasized specific programs in the Church. Even the change in personality from one leader to another can cause uncomfortable adjustments for a ward or quorum. Maybe the last guy was really likable, but the new guy is an old grump. There is no way around this leadership vacuum collapse. The only thing that can be done is to make sure the leadership vacuum is so small that the collapse has minor effect. The outgoing leader holds the most power in keeping the leadership vacuum small enough to have no long term effect on the new leader. Transitions of leadership happen all the time in both in the secular world, and especially in the LDS religious world. Consider the change in the Quorum of the 12 Apostles. When apostles die is there a collapse? No. Thankfully the quorum is supported by 11 other men holding the same authority. The authority of those surviving provides support from the collapse. What about when the president of the Church dies, is there a collapse? Definitely to some extent, but again, the structure of those callings creates an expected result that minimizes the adjustment that members of the Church have to make with the new prophet. What about when Jesus Christ ascended into heaven? Did the leadership vacuum collapse? There was an apostasy in the coming years, but at the time, thankfully there was no collapse, and the Apostles carried on the work. At the time of Christ's arrest, and when Peter denied knowing the Savior (John 18), the leadership vacuum appears large and a leadership collapse seemed inevitable. Thankfully, after the Saviors resurrection, He spoke with Peter directly, reminding him of his role as the "Rock," or leader of the Church. This story, made even more memorable by Elder Hollands 2012 October #ldsconf Address, shrunk whatever remained of the leadership vacuum left by the Savior. Peter proved this as he later preached and produced miracles measurable to the Savior's. Now consider a typical transition for a Relief Society president or elders quorum president. How often are auxiliary leaders re-learning what the previous leader already learned? Of course, some knowledge and experience can only be gained through a personal experience, but most leadership vacuums left behind could be much minor with a thoughtful approach to one's responsibilities and effective delegation. As my bishop friend and I discussed the idea of a leadership vacuum and how to minimize it, a few ideas came to mind. I'd like to share them with you to get you thinking as well. Better ideas may come from you, the reader, as you share your thoughts below. I'd love to add your ideas to this list so other leaders can minimize their leadership vacuum. 1. Delegate More Often Many Relief Society presidents, bishops, and auxiliary presidents think that because they are the big cheese, the main man, or the key holder, they have to do everything. There are very few things the leader can only do themselves. The more they delegate the more they shrink the leadership vacuum. More often than not,

Imagine if you sat on the board of directors for a large Fortune 500 company that needed to find a new CEO to improve the dismal progress of the company. You are not allowed to conduct any formal interviews. You can only choose from people that live in a specific geographical neighborhood (about 350 people). To top it off, you have to make your decision in only 2 weeks. Filling callings in a ward, quorum, or group can feel just as daunting. Most companies would think it was crazy to simply hire someone because you know the person (somewhat) and they seem like they could handle the task. This isn't like the secular world, where it would require a series of interviews and reference checks before making an offer. Thankfully, in any ward or branch people are working under priesthood keys held by a quorum president (i.e. bishop, stake president). Special inspiration comes through these keys and it is remarkable to see the right people chosen for the right callings. Of course, this isn't always the case since humans are involved in the process. It is beneficial to compare the more secular hiring process with the church calling process because though they are different in their approach many of the same mistakes can be made. I recently read a book by called The Rare Find: Spotting Exceptional Talent Before Everyone Else by George Anders. When I first saw the title of the book, my curiosity was peaked because I have spent many late nights with bishoprics going through lists of ward members simply trying to find "exceptional talent" for a vacant calling. In this book Anders shares his research on how large and small companies have found new ways of finding extraordinary team members to take their organization to the next level. Just like my example above, not all of the content of the book can be related to an LDS ward or stake but many hit the nail on the head. Compromise on experience; don't compromise on character When pondering over who should serve as the next elder's quorum president or high councilman, it's natural to look at one's previous church experience. Have they served in a leadership calling before? Did they serve a mission? Anders writes, "The difference between growth and stagnation comes down to finding people with bold, fresh approaches, who can create opportunities that no one else saw before." (p.237) Even with a lengthy church leadership resume, the individual's values may not match the values the quorum needs. I'm not talking about moral values or whether the elder quorum president has a felony on his record. Rather, do they value characteristics that the quorum or group needs? Choosing the elder that is always positive and friendly might not be the best choice when the quorum needs organization and consistency. The bottom line from the quote above is having someone with a fresh approach is sometimes all the position needs to succeed. Seek out "talent that whispers" Take a moment to analyze the process you go through to determine who is a "valid candidate". It doesn't matter which calling you are trying to fill because the process is most likely similar. Choosing an auxiliary leader may feel like a can't-make-a-mistake decision since so much responsibility comes with the call. Whether looking for a new CFO for a company or seeking a new gospel doctrine instructor for a ward—the reality is,

Paul Barker is currently serving as 1st counselor in a Young Single Adult (YSA) Stake in the Phoenix, Arizona area. He has also served in a few bishoprics, and as a bishop. In this episode we focus on the unique characteristics of being a leader in a YSA stake and how these stakes are more elite compared to conventional family wards. We also discuss the unique approaches to home teaching, how activities play an important role in YSA wards, and how to appeal to those that don't enjoy large social activities. Paul's 5 Leadership Principles * Define the Objective: What is the goal or purpose? * Counsel: It takes two or more to counsel. * Plan: Draw up plans and specifications.  In other words Build Spiritually.  (Moses 2:5) * Build: Build physically, “by the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,”... * Watch it Until it Obeys: Make adjustments as necessary to fulfill the purpose of its creation.

Thomas Wirthlin McConkie may have the most "Mormon" name in all of Zion. :) That doesn't mean his story is a typical Mormon story. Thomas has recently released a helpful book called Navigating Mormon Faith Crisis: A Simple Development Map. This would be an excellent read for a leader in the Church who is seeking further understanding of those in the midst of a faith crisis. You can also find helpful resources at MormonStages.com. In this interview we discuss Thomas' journey away from the LDS Church at the age of 13, and the influence his Apostle Grandfather, Joseph B. Wirthlin, played in his life during that time. We then discuss his rediscovery of his Mormon faith, how his local leaders influenced him at that time, and then what led to him writing this book. This is a valuable interview for all leaders to hear. Please share it and spend some time at MormonStages to gain a deeper understanding. Links: President Uchtdorf Talk Interview about Fowler Stages of Faith MormonStages.com

Al Doan and Geoff Openshaw are the hosts of the very popular This Week in Mormons Podcast. I listen to their podcast weekly and they tend to make me laugh while they give me the run down of Mormon happenings. I encourage you to subscribe to the episode and you will find it entertaining. They both have great leadership experience; Geoff has served as a ward mission leader and is currently serving as an elders quorum president in the Washington DC area. Al has served his time as an YSA elders quorum president, as well, and now currently served on his high council in Missouri. In this interview we discuss the following: * The importance of delegation and why you may not be delegating as well as you think. * The importance of Personal Priesthood Interviews * The emphasis on quality Sunday experiences a leader can create and how that will help more people attend and enjoy your quorum. * The uniqueness of serving on a stake high council and how to approach this calling with success Links: How to Home Teach an Introvert This Week in Mormons Sunday School Bonanza

President Harry S. Truman had a small wooden sign on his desk that stated "THE BUCK STOPS HERE". His desk displayed this sign throughout his administration. It's a good motto -- a motto all leaders should follow. Many interpret this motto not only as a reason to take responsibility of all things that happen in your jurisdiction, but to also hold a death grip on all details. Delegation becomes impossible. Oversight is required. The leader maintains control. This interpretation is the birth of a micro-manager—and nobody likes a micro-manager. Liz Wiseman, one of the great leadership thinkers of our time, and someone I had the pleasure of interviewing many times, and if you have yet to read Multipliers you are really missing out. Anyway, Liz Wiseman explains a concept that is so vital in leadership thinking. Watch this video and then I'll elaborate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6MAxUC35wk&feature=youtu.be How can you find the right size wave as a leader? There are times when a bishop delegates responsibilities to a counselor in the bishopric and then the bishop can't help but hold the counselor's hand (metaphorically) through each step to make sure the counselor doesn't make a mistake. The minute the bishop sees the counselor headed down the wrong path he springs to the rescue and tells them to do something else because that idea won't work. Like the example Liz gives in the video, sometimes mother nature has to teach the lesson. Sometimes your direction is not helping but hurting their chance to experience and learn for themselves. Obviously there will be times when your intervention is necessary, but you first need to ask yourself if you are willing to allow the natural consequence to happen if it mean a deeper lesson will be learned? Are you willing to allow the counselor to try his idea even though the activity might be boring? Are you willing to let the primary president select her own primary teachers even though some might lead to a poor choice? Are you willing to  allow Brother Shy to speak in sacrament meeting even though some may fall asleep? Leaders should not be afraid to allow natural consequences to teach. By allowing those you lead to experience the discouraging consequences, it convinces them much deeper than any verbal persuasion from the leader. Then if things go wrong, you get a chance to show true leadership and still say, "the buck stops here!" What are you willing to allow happen if it means they will be taught on a deeper level?

Chance Mikos is a bishop in El Mirage Arizona. He is a former Elders Quorum President and high councilman, and a former missionary in the Boise Idaho mission. Check out his interview on the How I Lead segment of the podcast.  Enter Bishop Mikos Most of us reading this website have meetings, lots and lots of meetings. Sometimes meetings to plan a meeting. Over my 20+ years in LDS Church leadership, I have spent 100's of hours sitting in meetings. The first thing I’d mention is meetings are necessary; however, meetings aren’t the gospel. I find the best meetings are the ones that have a clear focus on helping or changing people. The second thing I would say is that the best meetings I’ve attended have been different from your standard, sit in a room and look at each other, meetings. So what do I mean? I hope to share a couple of ideas with you that may help keep the endless meetings a little more enjoyable. 1. By all means, end the meeting early. If you are a Bishop or presiding authority at the meeting you have complete control of the agenda and pace of the meeting. If you can accomplish an hour meeting in 15 minutes, DO IT. Just because the agenda has an hour for the meeting time doesn’t require you to fill the time. Hit the agenda items and let everyone go home. That will make you a hero in the eyes of many you serve with. (Didn’t most of us rejoice just a bit when we got out early from General Priesthood meeting in October of 2015? Don’t lie, I know you did.) 2. Take the meeting home. Another favorite strategy of mine is meeting in my home. This isn’t a frequent occasion due to having multiple meetings stacked one after another on Sundays. But every once in awhile we get an issue that requires a weekday evening meeting. I love to have those meetings in my living room. The change in environment often changes our outlook on an issue. I notice my councilors always sit in the same chairs during our usual meetings. This change of venue requires a change in habits or patterns, churning up fresh ideas or perspectives. 3. A Meeting with treats is well… a treat. Next on my list are treats. This one is self explanatory but I love treats; and a meeting with treats is well… a treat. I was lucky to inherit a mini fridge from the previous Bishop. We keep it stocked with drinks and snacks. It's been a lifesaver more than once as we meet late into the night trying to figure out issues or callings. 4. The Breakfast Meeting! Lastly, is my number one favorite meeting; the breakfast meeting! On the last Saturday of every month, my councilors and I meet early and have breakfast at a local restaurant. We plan the next month's speakers and topics. With the new ward council emphasis on planning sacrament meeting we use that time to prepare ideas for our ward council meeting. We discuss issues in the ward and try to fit talks to help address these needs. We also get a chance to just talk about life and enjoy a meal together. There is something very powerful about this and I highly recommend this type of meeting. There are some great scriptural examples of meetings over a meal. Keeping meetings fresh is a skill every good leader should work on. New approaches to meetings can result in fresh ideas and solutions. I understand that many of the meetings we hold can’t include these elements. Sometimes we have to have the standard, run of the mill meeting, but when you can change things up you should. I’m sure there are many others out there that could add to the list and I’d love to hear about them in the comments.

Calling management can be a distracting task for a presidency that is striving to connected individually with members of their ward. It's an administrative task that must be done while also giving special thought to whom should fill which calling. I've written about how I manage callings using a project management tool called Asana, but it is important for leaders to see all tools available for managing callings so they can find the right fit for their presidency. The more proactive a leader is in finding effective tools the more happy the auxiliary leaders will be as they await new individuals to be called to help them succeed in their respective auxiliary. One fantastic free tool that is available for all LDS leaders to use is called LDSCallings.com. This tool was created by Sister Cassie Woolley after her stake clerk asked her to help the stake organize the callings process in their Australian stake. In this interview I get the chance to ask Sister Woolley how her application works so that other leaders can begin to use it. Sister Woolley is a member of her Stake Relief Society presidency in Brisbane, Australia. She has a degree in computer science and has been magnifying that degree, not only in her professional life, but also in her spiritual life. She has also created LDSConventions.com, a tool to help organize registration for Church activities, and ScriptureCharts.com, which helps members of the Church track reading progress in scriptures and manuals. Cassie Woolley