With Friends Like These

Former mayor of Minneapolis Betsy Hodges comes on to talk about how the Rodney King uprisings started her journey to anti-racist activism — and what happened when, in 2015, her anti-racist ideals ran up against the realities of governing a city rocked by the shooting of a black man by white police officers. Her piece on the King uprisings is here. Her op-ed in the New York Times about how white liberals stand in the way of progress on police violence is here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would turn a passionate, witty feminist into a xenophobic white nationalist? This week’s episode tells the story of Cordelia Scaife May, the eccentric heiress whose fortune underwrote both the Pittsburg Children’s Museum and the most influential network of immigration restrictionists in American history. Our episode owes much to the New York Times’ investigative report on Scaife May last year, [“Why an Heiress Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out”] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In his 34 years in law enforcement, Norm Stamper participated in — or approved of — the gassing of protesters “hundreds” of times. Yet, he thought of himself as a reformer. He was, he thought, one of the “good guys.” His first book was intended to pull back the curtain and expose those *other* cops. Five years into retirement, he realized he was one of those other cops all along. Today, he’s advocate for not just changing policing policy, but resetting the whole system. Find out how he got there.That first book is Breaking Rank: A Top Cop’s Exposé of the Dark Side of American Policing (2005). The one that reflects who he is now is To Protect and Serve: How to Fix America’s Police (2016). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC) was proud of his Tea Party bona fides, until his son said he couldn’t vote for a climate change denier. Inglis wound up changing his mind, and gained one vote but lost a lot more — he’s now a former congressman, on a mission to recruit more conservatives to the climate cause. You can find out more about Inglis’ organization at RepublicEN.org. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

 How White Light Moments Change Your Brain, with Andrew Newberg If you’ve listened to the show at all this season, you’ve learned that the brain doesn’t want to change. And when it does change, it’s usually a slow process of erosion or evolution. So... what about the white light moments we’ve all heard of, if not experienced? Throughout history, there are accounts of people who undergo an instantaneous conversion of some kind: a flash of insight or comprehension that changes their lives forever. “Neurotheologian” Andrew Newberg joins us to talk about his research into what’s behind the white light, and what it does to us when it shines. You can find out more about Andrew and his research on his website His book about white light experiences is How Enlightenment Changes Your Brain If you’d like to hear Ana talk about her own white light experience, that discussion is here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Derek Black thought he was done with the white nationalist movement when he wrote a public letter renouncing the ideology he grew up in. Then he realized that white nationalism wasn’t just the racists that used to listen to his white nationalist radio show and read his white nationalist website — white supremacy was everywhere, people just weren’t talking about it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can’t escape the images of protest and unrest happening in our country this week. But what will be their lasting impact on Americans’ — especially white Americans’ — views? We look back to the 1960s civil rights movement for clues. Princeton political science professor Omar Wasow work focuses on how the two different waves of protest in that era effected both voting patterns and Americans’ interest in cause of ending racial discrimination. SHOW LINKS How 1960s Black Protests Moved Elites, Public Opinion and Voting https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/agenda-seeding-how-1960s-black-protests-moved-elites-public-opinion-and-voting/136610C8C040C3D92F041BB2EFC3034C If you’re able to donate, here’s how to support people and groups protesting police violence and working to combat racism and injustice: Go to crooked.com/bailfunds to support community bail funds around the country, and go to crooked.com/changefunds to support 11 groups fighting racism and police brutality. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So far this season of “WFLT: Converts Edition,” we’ve focused on why the brain resists change — but that doesn’t mean that people give up on trying. Previous episodes have taught us that arguing doesn’t work and that people’s beliefs can be impervious to facts. But what about the blunt force approach? What about… brainwashing? We'll talk to science writer Kathleen Turner, author of the book, "Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control.” Thanks to our sponsors! Best Fiends: If you’re looking for a fun way to pass the time while engaging your brain and enjoying breathtaking visuals and a gripping story, your answer is Best Fiends, free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Crooked Media’s own Adopt-a-State program! Ahead of this year’s elections, the team at Crooked has been hard at work trying to find the best ways for all of you to impact its results aside (of course) from casting your own ballot. Now they have an answer: Vote Save America’s brand new Adopt A State program.  The Adopt A State program lets you directly support the work of organizers, volunteers, and candidates in the six key battleground states that will be most important to winning a progressive majority in 2020: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, and North Carolina. When you sign up to adopt a state at votesaveamerica.com/adopt, you’ll get specific calls to action—things you can do yourself, from home, right now—that will make a huge impact on the races in these states.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when someone tells you something that challenges a deeply held belief? On the surface, it may feel annoying or uncomfortable, but according to research from the University of Southern California by Jonas Kaplan and Sarah Gimbel, it’s more than that. When people are presented with information that runs contrary to what they already believe, “The response in the brain that we see is very similar to what would happen if, say, you were walking through the forest and came across a bear.”  On this episode, Kaplan joins the show to talk about this research, and how that instinctive, adverse reaction is the brain trying to protect itself — an attempt to keep your idea of yourself stable and whole. Oh, and Crooked Media fans should know: Kaplan and Gimbel figured this out by studying the stubborn brains of a bunch of liberals. Sources: Kaplan and Gimbel were guests on this episode of the You Are Not So Smart podcast (which was one of the inspirations for this whole season!). The paper about their study is here. The study on how even split-second decisions are hard to change gets a write-up here. Thanks to our sponsors! Ritual, the multivitamin, reinvented. Get 10% off during your first three months at ritual.com/FRIENDS Kiwico, the seriously fun subscription box for kids. Get YOUR FIRST MONTH FREE on select crates at kiwico.com/FRIENDS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our first themed season, “With Friends Like These: Converts.” We’ve always been interested in why and how people change their minds about what they believe — mostly because it just doesn’t happen that often. Once we we make a choice about who we are or what we want to do, we start ignoring the evidence that might prove us wrong: that’s what “confirmation bias” is. Social psychologist Carol Tavris joins us to discuss the phenomenon, offer examples of it, and delve into the mystery of why some people seem capable of resisting the habit of rationalization and some people don’t. Further reading and sources: “Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me),” by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson Ezra Klein discusses confirmation bias and how the self-reinforcing effect of polarization this previous episode about his book, “Why We’re Polarized.” We discussed the ways we push each other into further and further away once we decide what we believe in this episode with Lilliana Mason, “When Ideology Is Identity”, about her book, “Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity.” One of the most influential accounts of extreme rationalization in action: “When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group the That Predicted the Destruction of the World,” which tells the story of a doomsday cult whose members’ certainty about their beliefs only increased after the apocalypse failed to occur. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week friend of the pod Alice Wong (@SFDirewolf) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about what it means to be a part of the disabled community during a pandemic. Spoiler: the world seems to get a little too cavalier about whether or not you deserve to live anymore. They talk about the grassroots activism being done within the community, and what able bodied folks can do to listen and be better. Remember, we are staying inside and quarantining for the good of everyone, not just those we deem worthy of surviving capitalism. Learn more about Alice’s work with the Disability Visibility Project here. Read more about the fight for Medicaid here. Thanks to our sponsors! With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right skills and experience for your job — and actively invites them to apply. To try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE, go to ZipRecruiter.com/friends!  Le Tote is the fashion RENTAL service where you can choose the clothes and accessories you want to wear. Visit LETOTE.COM to and use code FRIENDS1 to get 40% off today. BetterHelp online counseling is there for you. Get help on your own time and at your own pace. You can schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. Get 10% off your first month with discount code FRIENDS. Go to BetterHelp.com/FRIENDS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want to listen to anything NOT about COVID-19? We got the episode for you! Eduardo Porter (@portereduardo) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about a much lighter subject: the history of racism in class divides and how it still affects us today. They talk about the hopes we’ve had in the past for a racially diverse working class coalition and how it’s been destroyed time and time again by exclusive language. Afterwards, they talk about how our social welfare will probably not cut it for everyone over the coming weeks as we all lose our jobs to this virus. Finally, they talk about what we can do to stay positive when tackling seemingly unsolvable issues.  Learn more about Eduardo’s book, American Poison. Looking for a way to help out during this time from your isolation? Donate to the Coronavirus Relief Fund Here. Thanks to our sponsors! Whether your mission is to live a more sustainable life and reduce your fashion footprint, or cut down your shopping bills, the fashion rental service Le Tote can help you. For just a flat monthly fee you get access to their ENTIRE closet. Le Tote is offering 40% off your first two months to our listeners. Visit LETOTE.COM to and use code FRIENDS1 to get your discount and begin your sustainable style journey today.  ThirdLove Does Bras Differently: They believe that every woman deserves to feel comfortable and confident every day. With the right kind of support, they help her do this. Go to THIRDLOVE.com/FRIENDS now to find your perfect-fitting bra… and get 15% off your first purchase!  Anything you can do at the Post Office you can do at Stamps.com. Their on-demand postage means you can skip that trip to the Post Office. Plus, you can save money with discounts that you can’t even get at the Post Office! Get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in FRIENDS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Dan Drezner joins Ana Marie Cox to talk about the likelihood of Trump handling COVID-19 responsibly (you guessed it, not well). Dan argues in his book, Toddler in Chief, that not only is Trump a toddler, power in American politics has shifted to the executive, making this more dangerous than ever. They discuss the treacherous tales of badger-related attacks on staffers in the White House to the genuine concerns of friends and family members about Trump’s behavior. Finally, Dan gives us some reasons not to freak out: we still have some power.  Thanks to our sponsors!  Is there something that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp online counseling is there for you. Get 10% off your first month with discount code FRIENDS. Go to BetterHelp.com/FRIENDS Rothy’s shoes are incredibly comfortable with zero break-in period thanks to their seamlessly knit design. With many chic styles to choose from, Rothy's shoes are the perfect pair for any adventure. Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at rothys.com/WFLT Here at With Friends Like These, we love Grove Collaborative, the online marketplace that delivers all-natural home, beauty, and personal care products directly to your door. Go to Grove.co/FRIENDS you’ll get a FREE FIVE PIECE Set from Grove so you can swap out plastic in an easy way. Plus, you’ll get free shipping AND a free 60-day VIP trial! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CW: Sexual assault and violence against women. If you, or someone you know, has experienced sexual violence, please call the RAINN hotline: 800.656.HOPE (4673). It’s never too late to get help.  It’s no secret that most women live in fear of violence. Nearly every week, there’s a news story showcasing the most gruesome examples of it, like the woman who was killed for jogging in Queens, or the countless number of ‘Rejection Murders’ men commit after a woman says “no.”  This week, author of Men Explain Things to Me, Rebecca Solnit, joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to discuss her new memoir: Recollections of My Nonexistence. Together, they dream of a world where we don’t have to sit our daughters down and give them a never ending list of safety tips. They talk about what it’s like to grow up in our patriarchal culture, where giving those warnings seems more effective than stopping men from committing acts of violence. Finally, Rebecca reminds us that as much as violent and powerful men want to stop our voices, they will not be able to hold us down forever.   Thanks to our sponsors! quip, makers of the quip electric toothbrush wants you to know the one single discovery that matters most for your dental care. It is simply this, that if you have good habits, you are good. Join over THREE MILLION healthy mouths and get quip today, starting at TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS. And if you go to GETQUIP.com/FRIENDS, RIGHT NOW, you’ll get your first refill FREE. We deserve to know what we’re putting in our bodies and why, that’s why Ritual’s founder is on a mission to reinvent the vitamin industry. Ritual left out mystery additives, synthetic fillers, and shady extras that can be found in some traditional multivitamins. Get 10% off during your first three months at ritual.com/FRIENDS Anything you can do at the Post Office you can do at Stamps.com. Their on-demand postage means you can skip that trip to the Post Office. Get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in FRIENDS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we'll answer our number one question: why are we so polarized? Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to answer it. His new book is called, Why We’re Polarized, and they talk about how a lot of divisiveness stems from racism and problems beyond “political disagreements.” Finally they ask, can we bring unconditional love into politics, and more importantly, should we? Join us for another epistemologically exciting episode of With Friends Like These! Thanks to our sponsors! Is there something that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp online counseling is there for you. Best of all, it’s a truly affordable option. Get 10% off your first month with discount code FRIENDS when you go to BetterHelp.com/FRIENDS. With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE, when you go to ZipRecruiter.com/friends. Check out a brand new podcast from Lemonada Media out called Mouthpeace with Michael Bennett and Pele Bennett. Michael and Pele talk about their experiences as a family in NFL, but the show is about so much more than that. Subscribe to Mouthpeace with Michael and Pele Bennett wherever you listen to podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices