Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

My guest, Anthony Larson, has written several books and a number of articles presenting his unique view of science, which he believes supports both ancient prophets and modern LDS prophets and writers in their world view. He and I differ substantially in our assessment of both science and religion, specifically the LDS beliefs. He believes in what he calls catastrophism - that changes in the world, the solar system and the universe happen quickly and suddenly; that new planets can be birthed in the space of days. Tony is an advocate of the writings and speculations of Velikovsky, which have been rejected by modern science. For example, he speculated that a planet or comet passed by the earth at the time of Moses, taking about six months, causing the events at that time considered miraculous, such as the water being turned to blood, or turned red.   Tony favors maverick scientists over the consensus of the various scientific disciplines, contending that the mavericks will be proven correct - that modern science is undergoing a major revolution. He further contends that the mavericks are bringing science around to the Mormon point of view. Within this maverick science Tony claims there is support for the literal interpretation of Joshua 10:12-14 and Helamen 12:14-15 which speak of the sun standing still or the earth stopping its rotation. Tony believes that LDS have turned from prophecy and lost sight of the imminence of the Second Coming because it has not happened and have focused on day to day needs. He contends that they need to be cognizant of prophecy and interpret it properly, which interpretations he is prepared to elucidate. He has written his books to convince LDS that Joseph Smith had the keys; that he explained them, but LDS have just overlooked them. Regarding sources and interpretation, I expressed my doubt regarding the value of a number of sources which he uses to establish what he calls the Mormon position. He turns to a number of 2nd and 3rd hand sources to assemble what he claims to be Joseph Smith's teachings. Further, he uses the speculations of 19th century LDS writers as though their speculations were in fact direct revelations. Joseph Smith, himself, claimed to be human with views acquired through normal means as well as that which he had received in his prophetic call. He made no claims to omniscience or infallibility. That is, he was not always speaking as a prophet. Also, I feel that Tony ignores the foundation laid by Joseph Smith in which he considered us to be children with much to learn; that much was withheld from ancient prophets; and that many ideas and traditions will be overturned by knowledged gleaned from many sources including study, theory and future revelation regarding the creation of the earth which has been withheld, to be revealed only at Christ's second as stated in D&C 101:32-34. He believes that the future of the earth can be clearly established through interpretation of the sources he has assembled which are both clear and obvious. I consider the enterprise of producing a scenario of the future to be very problematic for several reasons. I referred to Joseph Smith's desire to know the time of the Second Coming. He was given a revelation, but he did not know what it meant, and could only speculate as to its meaning. (see D&C 130:14-17) A precedent established by New Testament writers demonstrates a significant problem regarding interpretation and application of prophecy. They drew passages from the Old Testament pointing to an event in the life of Jesus as its fulfillment. There is a problem with their interpretations. Upon reading the Old Testament passage in its context, in many instances, there is no way an ancient reader would have seen it as prophecy of an event hundreds years in the future to be fulfilled in the life of Jesus. I mentioned Isaiah 7:14 as an example. There are many such passages. This suggests that we not be so certain that prophetic passages we can accurately produce a scenario of future events. Also, as history testifies, there is room for wide diversity of interpretation particularly of such texts as Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation and forward looking sections of the D&C, not to mention the reported comments of Joseph Smith and others. I enjoyed our discussion and the participation of a number of callers and email. Send correspondence to: vanehale@earthlink.net. I will respond by email. . I will respond by email. Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com This is the 25 March 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

I discussed the Statements of the LDS First Presidency with my guest, Gary Bergera. This is the title of a very handy book gathering doctrinal statements and arranging them according to topic, and also chronologically within each topic. Gary explained his approach to the project. He drew from more than 40 sources, from 1833 to the present, which are, or contain, items which were authored by, or endorsed by, the First Presidency and thus represent those points upon which it has chosen to write, as the highest quorum in the LDS Church. Addresses and writings of individual members of the First Presidency are not included. That the unified statement of the First Presidency is of higher authority than an individual statement of a member of the First Presidency, or of another General Authority, has been declared many times by LDS leaders. We discussed several points: 1. The role of the book in efforts to determine Mormon beliefs on doctrinal topics. 2. Why certain sources were included and why others were not. 3. This book is a convenient collection of doctrinal statements; a considerable guide to the written pronouncements of the First Presidency. While very valuable, it should not be considered something which it is not. 4. It is not the Mormon Creed. 5. The book is not the handbook of official Mormon Doctrine. 6. It is not a comprehensive collection of Mormon doctrinal beliefs. This would require going beyond the collection in this book to the much larger body of sermons, articles and writings of Mormons which are not statements or specific endorsements of the First Presidency. 7. Their statements have a rather narrow focus and tend to address very basic doctrines. We discussed with each other and with callers and email a number of specific doctrinal topics in the book, including: abortion, when the spirit enters the body, evolution, the U.S. Constitution, status of books by LDS authorities, the Adam-God theory, differences on the omniscience of God, birth control, common consent, Book of Mormon geography. A few of the other topics covered are: Word of Wisdom, sexual relations, second coming, sons of perdition, marriage, Godhead, Satan, euthanasia, labor unions, intellectualism, gender, gathering, gambling, excommunication, exaltation, church discipline, child abuse, capital punishment, education, dress and grooming, debt, cremation, artificial insemination and adoption. I enthusiastically endorse this work as valuable to anyone interested in LDS doctrinal beliefs. To Purchase: The book is 519 pages, published by Signature Books and sells for 34.95. I am making a special offer to those interested. I will include a $10.00 Gift Certificate for any items in the mormonmiscellaneous.com > Catalogue Purchase at this address: http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/netcart.asp?MerchantID=96029&ProductID=3450043 Your $10.00 Gift Certificate will be sent by email with instructions to redeem it.   Send correspondence to: vanehale@earthlink.net. I will respond by email.  Official website: mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: mormonmisc.podbean.com  This is the 18 March 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

I discussed the Statements of the LDS First Presidency with my guest, Gary Bergera. This is the title of a very handy book gathering doctrinal statements and arranging them according to topic, and also chronologically within each topic. Gary explained his approach to the project. He drew from more than 40 sources, from 1833 to the present, which are, or contain, items which were authored by, or endorsed by, the First Presidency and thus represent those points upon which it has chosen to write, as the highest quorum in the LDS Church. Addresses and writings of individual members of the First Presidency are not included. That the unified statement of the First Presidency is of higher authority than an individual statement of a member of the First Presidency, or of another General Authority, has been declared many times by LDS leaders. We discussed several points: 1. The role of the book in efforts to determine Mormon beliefs on doctrinal topics. 2. Why certain sources were included and why others were not. 3. This book is a convenient collection of doctrinal statements; a considerable guide to the written pronouncements of the First Presidency. While very valuable, it should not be considered something which it is not. 4. It is not the Mormon Creed. 5. The book is not the handbook of official Mormon Doctrine. 6. It is not a comprehensive collection of Mormon doctrinal beliefs. This would require going beyond the collection in this book to the much larger body of sermons, articles and writings of Mormons which are not statements or specific endorsements of the First Presidency. 7. Their statements have a rather narrow focus and tend to address very basic doctrines. We discussed with each other and with callers and email a number of specific doctrinal topics in the book, including: abortion, when the spirit enters the body, evolution, the U.S. Constitution, status of books by LDS authorities, the Adam-God theory, differences on the omniscience of God, birth control, common consent, Book of Mormon geography. A few of the other topics covered are: Word of Wisdom, sexual relations, second coming, sons of perdition, marriage, Godhead, Satan, euthanasia, labor unions, intellectualism, gender, gathering, gambling, excommunication, exaltation, church discipline, child abuse, capital punishment, education, dress and grooming, debt, cremation, artificial insemination and adoption. I enthusiastically endorse this work as valuable to anyone interested in LDS doctrinal beliefs. To Purchase: The book is 519 pages, published by Signature Books and sells for 34.95. I am making a special offer to those interested. I will include a $10.00 Gift Certificate for any items in the mormonmiscellaneous.com > Catalogue Purchase at this address: http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/netcart.asp?MerchantID=96029&ProductID=3450043 Your $10.00 Gift Certificate will be sent by email with instructions to redeem it.   Send correspondence to: vanehale@earthlink.net. I will respond by email.  Official website: mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: mormonmisc.podbean.com  This is the 18 March 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Read the Synopsis at: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id17.html One interested in Joseph Smith should be interested what he himself said about himself. I assemble 138 sources to discuss Joseph Smith’s self characterization as a prophet, yet, typically human, imperfect, fallible and in search of further light and knowledge, all of which he viewed as consistent with his claim to be a prophet. I include many of his admissions of human weakness; his acknowledgement that he could fall; examples of his denials of infallibility and omniscience; his policy that all revelation needs to be tested, including his own, because not all revelation is from God. Program Notes are available for this episode. Included are all of the sources, quotations and references (138) with discussion of a number of incidents in Joseph Smith’s life related to this topic, some not covered in the Talk Show. Also included is a section gathering a number of passages which demonstrate the broad parameters allowed Biblical prophets. If you are interested in the Program Notes go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html This is the 4 March 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST where your participation will be invited regardless of your point of view. Official Website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Read the Synopsis at: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id17.html One interested in Joseph Smith should be interested what he himself said about himself. I assemble 138 sources to discuss Joseph Smith’s self characterization as a prophet, yet, typically human, imperfect, fallible and in search of further light and knowledge, all of which he viewed as consistent with his claim to be a prophet. I include many of his admissions of human weakness; his acknowledgement that he could fall; examples of his denials of infallibility and omniscience; his policy that all revelation needs to be tested, including his own, because not all revelation is from God. Program Notes are available for this episode. Included are all of the sources, quotations and references (138) with discussion of a number of incidents in Joseph Smith’s life related to this topic, some not covered in the Talk Show. Also included is a section gathering a number of passages which demonstrate the broad parameters allowed Biblical prophets. If you are interested in the Program Notes go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html This is the 4 March 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST where your participation will be invited regardless of your point of view. Official Website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Read synopsis at: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id16.html I assembled many sources from Joseph Smith which present his thinking. He declared that, with the restoration the heavens were opened. This created the opportunity for a great deal of new study, pondering, theorizing and new interpretation. To Joseph Smith growth demanded that the saints be free in their pursuit of greater light and knowledge. This pursuit would include gathering from new revelation, old revelation and the many truths abroad in the world. He taught that in this growth process, Latter-day Saints would be at vastly different levels of gospel advancement. This would include considerable divergence in their personal beliefs. He left doors wide open for reinterpretation and evolution in LDS belief, both personal and institutional. Full understanding of gospel and other truths would not be attained until long after the resurrection. He endorsed and defended doctrinal diversity. He refused to formulate a creed because this would stifle the freedom necessary for the growth of the saints.To demonstrate the degree of Joseph Smith’s support of doctrinal diversity I discuss three different concepts of the Godhead he endorsed concurrently during the Nauvoo period (1841-1844). This is the live recording of a paper I presented at the Sunstone Theological Symposium held in Salt Lake City last August, 2006. It includes a response by Chuck Schofield and questions from the audience Following the Symposium, I was invited to prepare this paper for publication in the Sunstone Magazine. This resulted in a significant expansion beyond that in the original paper. The resulting article was published in the 144th issue of Sunstone, December 2006. It includes numerous references, additional quotations and 68 footnotes with more than 100 sources used to elucidate these views of Joseph Smith. This article is available at http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/estore-catalog/

Read synopsis at: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id16.html I assembled many sources from Joseph Smith which present his thinking. He declared that, with the restoration the heavens were opened. This created the opportunity for a great deal of new study, pondering, theorizing and new interpretation. To Joseph Smith growth demanded that the saints be free in their pursuit of greater light and knowledge. This pursuit would include gathering from new revelation, old revelation and the many truths abroad in the world. He taught that in this growth process, Latter-day Saints would be at vastly different levels of gospel advancement. This would include considerable divergence in their personal beliefs. He left doors wide open for reinterpretation and evolution in LDS belief, both personal and institutional. Full understanding of gospel and other truths would not be attained until long after the resurrection. He endorsed and defended doctrinal diversity. He refused to formulate a creed because this would stifle the freedom necessary for the growth of the saints.To demonstrate the degree of Joseph Smith’s support of doctrinal diversity I discuss three different concepts of the Godhead he endorsed concurrently during the Nauvoo period (1841-1844). This is the live recording of a paper I presented at the Sunstone Theological Symposium held in Salt Lake City last August, 2006. It includes a response by Chuck Schofield and questions from the audience Following the Symposium, I was invited to prepare this paper for publication in the Sunstone Magazine. This resulted in a significant expansion beyond that in the original paper. The resulting article was published in the 144th issue of Sunstone, December 2006. It includes numerous references, additional quotations and 68 footnotes with more than 100 sources used to elucidate these views of Joseph Smith. This article is available at http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/estore-catalog/

New Testament Translations for LDS Consideration To read Program Synopsis go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id15.html To read Program Synopsis go to:English speaking Mormons would find a number of their views more clearly supported in many of the renderings in modern New Testament translations. For this, and other reasons, I contend that English speaking LDS may appreciate and profit from the reading and study of Bibles in addition to the KJV. There are several reasons, from my LDS perspective, why I prefer many renderings found in modern translations over those in the KJV. These would include: greater clarity, use of a better Greek text and support for a different translation than that found in the KJV. I read and commented on a few examples, including: John 1:1; 4:24; Mark 10:18; Eph 3:19; 4:13, 24; 5:1;1 Cor 15:49; Gal 1:15; Phil 2:12; 2 Tim 3:16; Heb 1:1-5; 1 Pet 2:2; 3:18-22; 5:10. Among these are several of a number of passages in modern Bibles which much more explicitly support LDS views of man's ultimate potential. From my Mormon perspective, I much prefer modern Bibles on this, and many other concepts. Also, I commented on my very favorite New Testament translation with an explanation. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html This is the 25 February 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 -7:00 pm MST where your participation will be invited regardless of your point of view.

New Testament Translations for LDS Consideration To read Program Synopsis go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/synopses/id15.html To read Program Synopsis go to:English speaking Mormons would find a number of their views more clearly supported in many of the renderings in modern New Testament translations. For this, and other reasons, I contend that English speaking LDS may appreciate and profit from the reading and study of Bibles in addition to the KJV. There are several reasons, from my LDS perspective, why I prefer many renderings found in modern translations over those in the KJV. These would include: greater clarity, use of a better Greek text and support for a different translation than that found in the KJV. I read and commented on a few examples, including: John 1:1; 4:24; Mark 10:18; Eph 3:19; 4:13, 24; 5:1;1 Cor 15:49; Gal 1:15; Phil 2:12; 2 Tim 3:16; Heb 1:1-5; 1 Pet 2:2; 3:18-22; 5:10. Among these are several of a number of passages in modern Bibles which much more explicitly support LDS views of man's ultimate potential. From my Mormon perspective, I much prefer modern Bibles on this, and many other concepts. Also, I commented on my very favorite New Testament translation with an explanation. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html This is the 25 February 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 -7:00 pm MST where your participation will be invited regardless of your point of view.

Was Jesus Married? LDS host: Van Hale. Summary: I discuss the views of 19th century LDS leaders who argued from three main positions that Jesus was certainly married. I quote from a number of their sermons and writings. While it seems widely believed among Mormons that Jesus was married, there have been clear statements that it is not considered official LDS doctrine. I presented reasons for my personal doubts that Jesus was married. It seems that among Mormons, my view is in the minority. There were a number of participants by phone and email, prompting some interesting dialogue from several perspectives. All argued against my view. This is the 4 June 2006 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited. To Read Program Synopsis: Click For More Information: Click Program Notes: I prepared notes for this program which include all of the quotations I cited and a number of others along with notes, comments, arguments and references on this topic. These notes can be purchased for $2.50. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html

Was Jesus Married? LDS host: Van Hale. Summary: I discuss the views of 19th century LDS leaders who argued from three main positions that Jesus was certainly married. I quote from a number of their sermons and writings. While it seems widely believed among Mormons that Jesus was married, there have been clear statements that it is not considered official LDS doctrine. I presented reasons for my personal doubts that Jesus was married. It seems that among Mormons, my view is in the minority. There were a number of participants by phone and email, prompting some interesting dialogue from several perspectives. All argued against my view. This is the 4 June 2006 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited. To Read Program Synopsis: Click For More Information: Click Program Notes: I prepared notes for this program which include all of the quotations I cited and a number of others along with notes, comments, arguments and references on this topic. These notes can be purchased for $2.50. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html

New Testament Myths 1 (28 Jan 2007) LDS host: Van Hale. Summary: I presented information about the sources used by Luke; the writing and canonization of the New Testament; verbal inspiration; the King James Version and discussed with callers the deity of Christ; Joseph Smith’s view of the KJV and German translations; polygamy; and responded to a self-proclaimed prophet who accused me of slandering the KJV. He claims God revealed to him that the KJV was inspired. This is the 28 January 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited. Synopsis: Click to read a program synopsis For Further Information on weekly Talk Shows: Click Here

New Testament Myths 1 (28 Jan 2007) LDS host: Van Hale. Summary: I presented information about the sources used by Luke; the writing and canonization of the New Testament; verbal inspiration; the King James Version and discussed with callers the deity of Christ; Joseph Smith’s view of the KJV and German translations; polygamy; and responded to a self-proclaimed prophet who accused me of slandering the KJV. He claims God revealed to him that the KJV was inspired. This is the 28 January 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited. Synopsis: Click to read a program synopsis For Further Information on weekly Talk Shows: Click Here

Mormon Doctrine: Mandatory and Forbidden Summary: For various reasons many insist that there is much mandatory doctrine required of Mormons and much forbidden doctrine. I discuss this, drawing from my personal experience and extensive research over the past 40 years. Using the Adam God theory and Polygamy for examples I present a number of sources which demonstrate that, from its beginning, the LDS Church has had very little official doctrine and almost no mandatory or forbidden doctrine. Participants by phone and email joined in the discussion. This is the 21 January 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited by LDS host Van Hale. For Program Synopsis: Click Here  Program Notes: I prepared program notes with comments, references and quotations. Time did not permit inclusion of all material in the Program Notes in the Talk Show. This item is 5 pages in PDF format and is available for $2.50. When purchased, it downloads to your computer. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html For Further Information on weekly Talk Shows: Click Here

Mormon Doctrine: Mandatory and Forbidden Summary: For various reasons many insist that there is much mandatory doctrine required of Mormons and much forbidden doctrine. I discuss this, drawing from my personal experience and extensive research over the past 40 years. Using the Adam God theory and Polygamy for examples I present a number of sources which demonstrate that, from its beginning, the LDS Church has had very little official doctrine and almost no mandatory or forbidden doctrine. Participants by phone and email joined in the discussion. This is the 21 January 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year where all points of view are invited by LDS host Van Hale. For Program Synopsis: Click Here  Program Notes: I prepared program notes with comments, references and quotations. Time did not permit inclusion of all material in the Program Notes in the Talk Show. This item is 5 pages in PDF format and is available for $2.50. When purchased, it downloads to your computer. Interested in the Program Notes CLICK or go to: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/id22.html For Further Information on weekly Talk Shows: Click Here