Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

The Spalding Theory of Book of Mormon Authorship                      My guests, Wayne L. Cowdrey, Howard A. Davis and Arthur Vanick, are authors of Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? The Spalding Enigma. The authors argue for the view that Solomon Spalding, who died in 1816 wrote two manuscripts about the inhabitants of ancient America, one from 1809 to 1812 and another from c.1812 to c.1814. The second was acquired by Sidney Rigdon from a printing office in Pittsburg, where he was allegedly working, and then spent some 18 months meeting with Joseph Smith in Palmyra 1827-1829 where religious material was added to Spaldings story/history and published as the Book of Mormon. This has been the most popular theory among non-Mormons throughout most of Mormon history. For about the last 70 years, the theory has been discarded by most, including a number of prominent anti-Mormon advocates. This book is an attempt to resurrect the theory. I presented some of many points which I think demonstrate to the rational mind that the theory is bogus. The authors countered with expanations and arguments which they think establish beyond doubt that Spalding was the author of the Book of Mormon.The following synopsis was written just following this radio discussion. Mr. Hale said he was skeptical of reminiscences provided by persons as late as 50 years after the publication of the Book of Mormon. He stated that the Spalding/Rigdon theory is entirely based upon alleged memories. There are no pre-1830 sources which described Solomon Spalding's literary production or Sidney Rigdon's acquaintance with the Joseph Smith, Sr. family living in western New York.  Mr. Hale said that testimony of early neighbors of the Smith family should have included specific points later brought up by Lorenzo Saunders, if those points were common knowledge. The fact that Howe did not include statements that the Smiths' neighbors knew of  Rigdon's frequent visits from 1827-1830 or rumors of Rigdon impregnating Catherine Smith seems to devastate the credibility of Saunders alleged memories on this particular point. Mr. Hale said he did not believe that such a story was in circulation at an early date. Mr. Hale gave three reasons for finding Bennett's 1831 article unbelieveable. Bennett's inability to provide the name of a visitor from Ohio beyond "Henry Rangdon or Ringdon or some such word" is inconsistent with Bennett's claim that he was privy to Rangdon's suggestion that the Smith's turn their  "their digging concern into a religious plot."  He did not know his name, but did know of his secret suggestion to the Smiths. Bennett, six times, called this man an "ex-preacher" or "ex-parson" from Ohio, during a time when substantial evidence establishes that Sidney Rigdon was not only an extremely active preacher, establishing nine new congregations in 1828, but was, in fact, the most famous preacher in northern Ohio. Bennett, or some unamed source, seems to have purloined a suggestion already circulating that "the first idea of a 'Book' was doubtless suggested to the Smiths by one Walters, a juggling fortune-teller" replacing Walters with Rangdon/Ringdon/Rigdon. Further, Bennett asserts that this "Ohio man" was so "famous" for his "particular felicity in finding out the spots of ground where money is hid," and who had "much experience in money digging" that his fame had found its way 200 miles from Ohio to upstate New York. When Rigdon became a Mormon in December 1830, he was vigorously opposed by Campbell, Scott, Bentley (his brother-in-law), along with other mininsters, including 3 cousins and another brother-in-law who had all become Disciple Ministers. However, none of these, nor others who knew Rigdon well, even in their opposition, suggested any knowledge of Rigdon's money digging fame, which Bennett alleged stretched to up-state New York. Mr. Hale noted that in November and December of 1833 Hurlbut interviewed or contacted at least 83 of Joseph Smith's neighbors, and Howe published 23 of their statements. None indicate any knowledge of Sidney Rigdon's presence in the neighborhood in 1827-1830. Mr. Hale finds it inconceiveable that, given Howe's interest in connecting Sidney Rigdon with the production of the Book of Mormon, he would not have published such statements if he had such. Further, the alleged memories of Saunder's, Gilbert, Chase, Lillie, Anderick and Tucker, 40 to 60 years later claim many neighbors knew of frequent visits by Sidney Rigdon to the Smiths from 1827-1830, some claiming to have been informed by the Smiths themselves and even alleging a "story was around the neighborhood that Catherine Smith was pregnant by Rigdon." Yet, none of 83 Smith neighbors provide any recollection of such in 1833. It seems obvious that the late alleged recollections rather reflect knowledge of developing myths to which they added their own embellishments. Mr. Hale said that he believed that Solomon Spalding only wrote one fictional story about ancient America. There were some striking, but superficial, similarities. Spalding claims that while walking near the Conneaught River, he noticed a flat stone. He raised the stone to find an artificial cave in which he found a box. Upon opening the box he found an ancient record. He translated only a portion of the record. Spalding presented himself not as the author, but as the translator of a manuscript written by a man, who with others, came to America by boat, long before Columbus. This manuscript tells of the customs, government, religion and the wars of ancient American nations now extinct. It is filled with strange names of people and places. When some Spalding neighbors were introduced to the Book of Mormon, it was suggested that it sounded like the Spalding story "Manuscript Found" which they had heard or read 20-25 years earlier. Their introduction to the Book of Mormon resulted in considerable embellishment and addition to their naturally faded memory resulting in the insertion of BoM-specific names and narrative information into their public statements. There are no known earlier statements or descriptions of a Spalding manuscript with any specific Book of Mormon names or details. Mr. Hale argued that Solomon Spalding, according to the authors' theory (p. 27) produced a second fictional story regarding the ancient inhabitants of the Americas in Pittsburg 1812-1814. Following Hurlbut's retrieval of Spalding's Roman story with parallels to the Book of Mormon too superficial to argue for some connection, a new claim was made - two stories by Spalding on the subject of pre-Columbus America. The new claim, not supported by the 8 original statements, alleged that Spalding altered his first plan of writing and commenced writing a Ten Lost Tribes story. According to this new scenario, the Roman Story was first and the Ten Tribes story second. A beginning draft of an unrelated letter in the Roman story on page 132 of the 171 page manuscript acknowledges the receipt of 2 letters "jun 1812." This establishes that the last 35 pages of the Roman manuscript were written after June 1812. Spalding moved to Pittsburg four months later in October 1812. This supports the authors' dating of the Ten Tribes manuscript to 1812-1814, if such were ever written -- How, then, could Oliver Smith testify that he had read BoM-specific information in a Spalding MS as early as 1809, when the Spalding manuscript with BoM-specific information was not written until 1812-1814 in Pittsburg? Mr. Hale argued that since 1833 statements for the claims of Spalding authorship state that the lost "Ten Tribes" began a journey from Jerusalem to the New World, that the claims were unbelieveable -- that Spalding would never have brought the ten tribes forth from Jerusalem. Before being carried away to Assyria, never again to return, they were the Northern Kingdom and were never residents of Jerusalem. Spalding had studied divinity at Dartmouth College and was a licensed Congregational minister for 8-10 years. He certainly would not have defied the common knowledge among even amateur Bible students that the lost Ten Tribes, or a small group of them, would have begun their journey to America from Jerusalem which had never been their place of residence. Further, the Book of Mormon specifically declares that the Ten Tribes were elsewhere. What seems obvious is that the 8 Spalding neighbors were working in reverse. A number of early 1830 newspapers reported the common false perception that the Book Mormon was about the Ten Tribes or their descendants in America. Operating from this assumption demanded that Spalding's neighbors, to establish a precise parallel, ascribe to Spalding's story the common false perception that the Book of Mormon was about the Ten Tribes coming to America from Jerusalem. They presumably looked at the first few pages of the Book of Mormon where they would have encountered Lehi, Nephi, Moroni and Laban. The second sentence of the first page of the 1830 Book of Mormon identifies Lehi's place of departure as Jerusalem. Their knowing, or unknowing, amalgation of these facts and perceptions seems to be the more likely source of their allege memories. Mr. Hale doubted Aron Wright's ability to identify the Roman manuscript shown to him by Hurlbut based upon the handwriting, having seen Spalding's handwriting more than 20 years earlier. Modern investigators are on record as disagreeing over which old specimens of handwriting can actually be traced back to Spalding's pen. Hale, however, does believe the manuscript shown to Wright was an authentic Spalding in his handwriting. [I was sidetracked on this point. It is of nominal significance.] Mr. Hale said that the allegation that the title is "Manuscript Story--Conneaut Creek" is more probably someone's description than Spalding's chosen title. This line is on  a sheet of paper in which the manuscript was wrapped. None of the handwriting on the wrapper was Spalding's. Mr. Hale observed this fact  based upon his comparison of the faint, but unmistakable, style of the 2 penciled "Cs" in "Manuscript Story--Conneaut Creek" on the wrapper, with the remarkably different style of capital "Cs" written by Spalding throughout his manuscript. The authors' claim (p. 81) that "the writing on the wrapper gives every appearance of being Solomon Spalding's own" is clearly wrong. From the first chapter's description of Spalding's finding of the manuscript by prying up a stone, going into a cave, opening a box and finding 28 sheets of parchment which he translated from Latin, the title, "Manuscript Found," would certainly be fitting and the penciled line is not relevant. Mr. Hale discounted Mrs. Eichbaum's reminiscence, because it was first written down at a late date (1879) and because Howe's book quotes a Mr. Patterson as saying he did not know about Spalding's MS. The discussion did include an 1842 Robert Patterson statement in Samuel Williams' pamphlet, nor the later reminiscence provided by Elder William Small. Mr. Hale was certain that Sidney Rigdon visited Pittsburgh as a young man. His response to the appearance of Rigdon's name in published Pittsburgh letter lists, was that the printing of such a list showed that the recipient had NOT picked up any such letters waiting for him -- thus tending to demonstrate that he had NOT frequented the Pittsburgh Post Office to the extent Eichbaum claimed in her statement. Mr. Hale doubts the value of Arthur B. Deming's published statements because the witnesses were very old, and separated from the events by some sixty years and Deming offered to pay contributors to his newspaper for their submission of negative statements. Mr. Hale read Deming's offer in his first issue of Naked Truths about Mormonism to pay a "fair price" for negative material "regarding the origin and early history of Mormonism" "if used." It seems impossible not to find suspect this form of alleged memory, often contradictory and frequently compound hearsay.

The Spalding Theory of Book of Mormon Authorship                      My guests, Wayne L. Cowdrey, Howard A. Davis and Arthur Vanick, are authors of Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? The Spalding Enigma. The authors argue for the view that Solomon Spalding, who died in 1816 wrote two manuscripts about the inhabitants of ancient America, one from 1809 to 1812 and another from c.1812 to c.1814. The second was acquired by Sidney Rigdon from a printing office in Pittsburg, where he was allegedly working, and then spent some 18 months meeting with Joseph Smith in Palmyra 1827-1829 where religious material was added to Spaldings story/history and published as the Book of Mormon. This has been the most popular theory among non-Mormons throughout most of Mormon history. For about the last 70 years, the theory has been discarded by most, including a number of prominent anti-Mormon advocates. This book is an attempt to resurrect the theory. I presented some of many points which I think demonstrate to the rational mind that the theory is bogus. The authors countered with expanations and arguments which they think establish beyond doubt that Spalding was the author of the Book of Mormon.The following synopsis was written just following this radio discussion. Mr. Hale said he was skeptical of reminiscences provided by persons as late as 50 years after the publication of the Book of Mormon. He stated that the Spalding/Rigdon theory is entirely based upon alleged memories. There are no pre-1830 sources which described Solomon Spalding's literary production or Sidney Rigdon's acquaintance with the Joseph Smith, Sr. family living in western New York.  Mr. Hale said that testimony of early neighbors of the Smith family should have included specific points later brought up by Lorenzo Saunders, if those points were common knowledge. The fact that Howe did not include statements that the Smiths' neighbors knew of  Rigdon's frequent visits from 1827-1830 or rumors of Rigdon impregnating Catherine Smith seems to devastate the credibility of Saunders alleged memories on this particular point. Mr. Hale said he did not believe that such a story was in circulation at an early date. Mr. Hale gave three reasons for finding Bennett's 1831 article unbelieveable. Bennett's inability to provide the name of a visitor from Ohio beyond "Henry Rangdon or Ringdon or some such word" is inconsistent with Bennett's claim that he was privy to Rangdon's suggestion that the Smith's turn their  "their digging concern into a religious plot."  He did not know his name, but did know of his secret suggestion to the Smiths. Bennett, six times, called this man an "ex-preacher" or "ex-parson" from Ohio, during a time when substantial evidence establishes that Sidney Rigdon was not only an extremely active preacher, establishing nine new congregations in 1828, but was, in fact, the most famous preacher in northern Ohio. Bennett, or some unamed source, seems to have purloined a suggestion already circulating that "the first idea of a 'Book' was doubtless suggested to the Smiths by one Walters, a juggling fortune-teller" replacing Walters with Rangdon/Ringdon/Rigdon. Further, Bennett asserts that this "Ohio man" was so "famous" for his "particular felicity in finding out the spots of ground where money is hid," and who had "much experience in money digging" that his fame had found its way 200 miles from Ohio to upstate New York. When Rigdon became a Mormon in December 1830, he was vigorously opposed by Campbell, Scott, Bentley (his brother-in-law), along with other mininsters, including 3 cousins and another brother-in-law who had all become Disciple Ministers. However, none of these, nor others who knew Rigdon well, even in their opposition, suggested any knowledge of Rigdon's money digging fame, which Bennett alleged stretched to up-state New

Theology With Blake Ostler Blake has authored a number of papers and articles and currently has completed two volumes of his multi-volume set, Exploring Mormon Thought. Joseph Smith's basic teaching that Mormons are open to receiving all truth; that Mormonism is progressive, looking for development of its beliefs in a variety of ways including thought, pondering and continued revelation, opens the path for the consideration of various aspects and angles beyond the parameters of basic Mormon doctrine. Joseph Smith opposed the idea of a creed because it sets up stakes beyond which a person is not to think. Instead he encouraged LDS to seek deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. We discussed our differences in our interpretations of Joseph Smith's views as found in D&C 121:28-32 and two discourses: 7 April 1844 and 16 June 1844. Blake concludes that Joseph Smith believed that there is one Eternal God of all other gods. I conclude that, by 1844, Joseph Smith  believed that there is an infinite patriarchy of Gods - that there is no God who does not have a Father and God. Topics Raised by Callers and Email Is not the Articles of Faith a creed, if not why? What is the status of progressive Mormonism and Mormon neo-orthodoxy? What about W.W. Phelps hymn "If you could hie to Kolob"? What is a creed? By Joseph Smith's declaration that Jesus followed in the footsteps of his Father, does he mean that the Father was the Savior of the world upon which he went through mortality? Blake is trying to harmonize JS's Nauvoo teachings on plurality of gods with his 1835 Book of Abraham council of gods. According to JS's logic if there was a first God, there would have to be a last. What about the Adam God doctrine of Brigham Young? God does not have a navel. The Adam God theory is basic gospel truth and those who reject it will be damned. Does God the Father have a Father? Who was God the Father's Father when he went through mortality? Allegation that Joseph Smith believed the Adam God theory.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 26 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Theology With Blake Ostler Blake has authored a number of papers and articles and currently has completed two volumes of his multi-volume set, Exploring Mormon Thought. Joseph Smith's basic teaching that Mormons are open to receiving all truth; that Mormonism is progressive, looking for development of its beliefs in a variety of ways including thought, pondering and continued revelation, opens the path for the consideration of various aspects and angles beyond the parameters of basic Mormon doctrine. Joseph Smith opposed the idea of a creed because it sets up stakes beyond which a person is not to think. Instead he encouraged LDS to seek deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. We discussed our differences in our interpretations of Joseph Smith's views as found in D&C 121:28-32 and two discourses: 7 April 1844 and 16 June 1844. Blake concludes that Joseph Smith believed that there is one Eternal God of all other gods. I conclude that, by 1844, Joseph Smith  believed that there is an infinite patriarchy of Gods - that there is no God who does not have a Father and God. Topics Raised by Callers and Email Is not the Articles of Faith a creed, if not why? What is the status of progressive Mormonism and Mormon neo-orthodoxy? What about W.W. Phelps hymn "If you could hie to Kolob"? What is a creed? By Joseph Smith's declaration that Jesus followed in the footsteps of his Father, does he mean that the Father was the Savior of the world upon which he went through mortality? Blake is trying to harmonize JS's Nauvoo teachings on plurality of gods with his 1835 Book of Abraham council of gods. According to JS's logic if there was a first God, there would have to be a last. What about the Adam God doctrine of Brigham Young? God does not have a navel. The Adam God theory is basic gospel truth and those who reject it will be damned. Does God the Father have a Father? Who was God the Father's Father when he went through mortality? Allegation that Joseph Smith believed the Adam God theory.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 26 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Theology With Blake Ostler Blake has authored a number of papers and articles and currently has completed two volumes of his multi-volume set, Exploring Mormon Thought. Joseph Smith's basic teaching that Mormons are open to receiving all truth; that Mormonism is progressive, looking for development of its beliefs in a variety of ways including thought, pondering and continued revelation, opens the path for the consideration of various aspects and angles beyond the parameters of basic Mormon doctrine. Joseph Smith opposed the idea of a creed because it sets up stakes beyond which a person is not to think. Instead he encouraged LDS to seek deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. We discussed our differences in our interpretations of Joseph Smith's views as found in D&C 121:28-32 and two discourses: 7 April 1844 and 16 June 1844. Blake concludes that Joseph Smith believed that there is one Eternal God of all other gods. I conclude that, by 1844, Joseph Smith  believed that there is an infinite patriarchy of Gods - that there is no God who does not have a Father and God. Topics Raised by Callers and Email Is not the Articles of Faith a creed, if not why? What is the status of progressive Mormonism and Mormon neo-orthodoxy? What about W.W. Phelps hymn "If you could hie to Kolob"? What is a creed? By Joseph Smith's declaration that Jesus followed in the footsteps of his Father, does he mean that the Father was the Savior of the world upon which he went through mortality? Blake is trying to harmonize JS's Nauvoo teachings on plurality of gods with his 1835 Book of Abraham council of gods. According to JS's logic if there was a first God, there would have to be a last. What about the Adam God doctrine of Brigham Young? God does not have a navel. The Adam God theory is basic gospel truth and those who reject it will be damned. Does God the Father have a Father? Who was God the Father's Father when he went through mortality? Allegation that Joseph Smith believed the Adam God theory.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 26 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Two Month Nauvoo Temple Operation  I cover some of the events, ordinances, sermons, and happenings in the Nauvoo Temple during its short term of operation from 11 December 1845 to 8 February 1846. A major source for my comments is the valuable book: The Nauvoo Endowment Companies, edited by Gary Bergera and Devery Anderson, compiled primarily from Nauvoo Temple records and diaries. I discuss: Laying of the cornerstones of the Temple Extensive detailed records The ordinances - baptism for the dead, washings, anointings, washing and anointing for health, washing of feet, endowments, second anointing, marriage, sealings (living, dead, children), adoptions, ordinations (elder, seventy, high priest), prayer circles Types of marriages/sealings performed in the temple - for time and eternity; for time; for eternity; monogamous for time-plural for eternity; plural for time-monogamous for eternity; plural for time and eternity; non-sexual for time Wedding ceremonies, celebration and recreation in the temple Dancing in the temple unto the Lord - Brigham Young's explanation and defense Music in the temple Secrecy directives Prominent themes of the temple prayers Actors in the Endowment drama First Temple expose Topics Raised by Callers and Email A strong condemnation of my motives and my response. Priesthood is outside of the Church. Is the Book of Mormon fact or fiction? Three Book of Mormon doctrines which are wrong. The Church fell into apostasy in 1978 in giving the Blacks the priesthood, and a former 70 now is the Lord's Anointed. The fact that Pres. Kimball received a revelation to extend the priesthood to the Blacks means there must have been a revelation to withhold the priesthood from the Blacks.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 19 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Two Month Nauvoo Temple Operation  I cover some of the events, ordinances, sermons, and happenings in the Nauvoo Temple during its short term of operation from 11 December 1845 to 8 February 1846. A major source for my comments is the valuable book: The Nauvoo Endowment Companies, edited by Gary Bergera and Devery Anderson, compiled primarily from Nauvoo Temple records and diaries. I discuss: Laying of the cornerstones of the Temple Extensive detailed records The ordinances - baptism for the dead, washings, anointings, washing and anointing for health, washing of feet, endowments, second anointing, marriage, sealings (living, dead, children), adoptions, ordinations (elder, seventy, high priest), prayer circles Types of marriages/sealings performed in the temple - for time and eternity; for time; for eternity; monogamous for time-plural for eternity; plural for time-monogamous for eternity; plural for time and eternity; non-sexual for time Wedding ceremonies, celebration and recreation in the temple Dancing in the temple unto the Lord - Brigham Young's explanation and defense Music in the temple Secrecy directives Prominent themes of the temple prayers Actors in the Endowment drama First Temple expose Topics Raised by Callers and Email A strong condemnation of my motives and my response. Priesthood is outside of the Church. Is the Book of Mormon fact or fiction? Three Book of Mormon doctrines which are wrong. The Church fell into apostasy in 1978 in giving the Blacks the priesthood, and a former 70 now is the Lord's Anointed. The fact that Pres. Kimball received a revelation to extend the priesthood to the Blacks means there must have been a revelation to withhold the priesthood from the Blacks.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 19 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Two Month Nauvoo Temple Operation  I cover some of the events, ordinances, sermons, and happenings in the Nauvoo Temple during its short term of operation from 11 December 1845 to 8 February 1846. A major source for my comments is the valuable book: The Nauvoo Endowment Companies, edited by Gary Bergera and Devery Anderson, compiled primarily from Nauvoo Temple records and diaries. I discuss: Laying of the cornerstones of the Temple Extensive detailed records The ordinances - baptism for the dead, washings, anointings, washing and anointing for health, washing of feet, endowments, second anointing, marriage, sealings (living, dead, children), adoptions, ordinations (elder, seventy, high priest), prayer circles Types of marriages/sealings performed in the temple - for time and eternity; for time; for eternity; monogamous for time-plural for eternity; plural for time-monogamous for eternity; plural for time and eternity; non-sexual for time Wedding ceremonies, celebration and recreation in the temple Dancing in the temple unto the Lord - Brigham Young's explanation and defense Music in the temple Secrecy directives Prominent themes of the temple prayers Actors in the Endowment drama First Temple expose Topics Raised by Callers and Email A strong condemnation of my motives and my response. Priesthood is outside of the Church. Is the Book of Mormon fact or fiction? Three Book of Mormon doctrines which are wrong. The Church fell into apostasy in 1978 in giving the Blacks the priesthood, and a former 70 now is the Lord's Anointed. The fact that Pres. Kimball received a revelation to extend the priesthood to the Blacks means there must have been a revelation to withhold the priesthood from the Blacks.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 19 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

My Sunstone Experience At a session at the Sunstone Symposium three panelists discussed the need for a more aggressive approach to some of the more difficult Mormon topics. The idea they posed was that it would be better for Mormons to be introduced to controversial topics from within the Church rather than by Mormonism's critics. I tell my experience of discussing the Trinity with a young Christian Evangelical, following my participation in a session on the doctrine of God in the Book of Mormon. I comment on the paper I presented at Sunstone on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance and read an outrageous charge from the new book September Dawn, which is also a movie scheduled to be released the end of August. Topics Raised by Callers and Email John Krakauer's best selling book Evolution - several different views Can a divorced man become a bishop? Speculation on replacement of Pres. Hinckley's counsellor, Pres. Faust Succession claims following the death of Joseph Smith Will Bagley's response to my Sunstone paper on the Oath of Vengeance Are Church manuals going to be more scholarly? Adam God theory Joseph Smith's testimony Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 12 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

My Sunstone Experience At a session at the Sunstone Symposium three panelists discussed the need for a more aggressive approach to some of the more difficult Mormon topics. The idea they posed was that it would be better for Mormons to be introduced to controversial topics from within the Church rather than by Mormonism's critics. I tell my experience of discussing the Trinity with a young Christian Evangelical, following my participation in a session on the doctrine of God in the Book of Mormon. I comment on the paper I presented at Sunstone on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance and read an outrageous charge from the new book September Dawn, which is also a movie scheduled to be released the end of August. Topics Raised by Callers and Email John Krakauer's best selling book Evolution - several different views Can a divorced man become a bishop? Speculation on replacement of Pres. Hinckley's counsellor, Pres. Faust Succession claims following the death of Joseph Smith Will Bagley's response to my Sunstone paper on the Oath of Vengeance Are Church manuals going to be more scholarly? Adam God theory Joseph Smith's testimony Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 12 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

My Sunstone Experience At a session at the Sunstone Symposium three panelists discussed the need for a more aggressive approach to some of the more difficult Mormon topics. The idea they posed was that it would be better for Mormons to be introduced to controversial topics from within the Church rather than by Mormonism's critics. I tell my experience of discussing the Trinity with a young Christian Evangelical, following my participation in a session on the doctrine of God in the Book of Mormon. I comment on the paper I presented at Sunstone on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance and read an outrageous charge from the new book September Dawn, which is also a movie scheduled to be released the end of August. Topics Raised by Callers and Email John Krakauer's best selling book Evolution - several different views Can a divorced man become a bishop? Speculation on replacement of Pres. Hinckley's counsellor, Pres. Faust Succession claims following the death of Joseph Smith Will Bagley's response to my Sunstone paper on the Oath of Vengeance Are Church manuals going to be more scholarly? Adam God theory Joseph Smith's testimony Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 12 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

The Romneys; Mormon Splinter Groups My guest is Newell Bringhurst past president of the Mormon History Association, the John Whitmer Historical Association and author of many works on diverse areas of Mormon history.Bringhurst has written a paper comparing the Presidential campaigns of George Romney (1968) and his son Mitt Romney (2008).Mitt has considered some of the problems and mistakes of his father. George Romney was the front-runner for a time as the Republican candidate.    Only Mormon issue he faced was LDS policy of denying priesthood to the Blacks.     Citizenship issue was raised because he was born in Mexico. His grandfather went to Mexico to avoid polygamy prosecution, but his parents were both American citizens. Brainwashing statement   Lessons Mitt learned from his father's compaign    Care in rhetoric  Name recognition Listing of other Mormon Presidential candidates.  Joseph Smith  Parley Christensen George Romney Morris Udall Bo Grits Eldridge Cleaver (before he converted to Mormonism) Orrin Hatch Ezra Taft Benson's interest in Vice President Mormon Splinter Groups. Bringhurst is editing a book to be published in September 2007 on the Mormon splinter groups. There have been some 400 splinter groups which have broken off from the Mormon Church; some 60 groups are active currently. There have been many claims of revelation and priesthood succession outside of the LDS Church. A list of such would include: Sidney Rigdon, William Law, David Whitmer, Lyman Wight, Wycam Clark, Noah Rogers and a number of modern Mormon Fundamentalist groups   Topics from Callers Mormon persecution in Missouri - politics and gathering  Diversity among Fundamentalist Mormons Claims of priesthood outside of the Church Apostasy of the LDS Church by giving the Blacks the Priesthood Importance of consensus within the Church     Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 5 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

The Romneys; Mormon Splinter Groups My guest is Newell Bringhurst past president of the Mormon History Association, the John Whitmer Historical Association and author of many works on diverse areas of Mormon history.Bringhurst has written a paper comparing the Presidential campaigns of George Romney (1968) and his son Mitt Romney (2008).Mitt has considered some of the problems and mistakes of his father. George Romney was the front-runner for a time as the Republican candidate.    Only Mormon issue he faced was LDS policy of denying priesthood to the Blacks.     Citizenship issue was raised because he was born in Mexico. His grandfather went to Mexico to avoid polygamy prosecution, but his parents were both American citizens. Brainwashing statement   Lessons Mitt learned from his father's compaign    Care in rhetoric  Name recognition Listing of other Mormon Presidential candidates.  Joseph Smith  Parley Christensen George Romney Morris Udall Bo Grits Eldridge Cleaver (before he converted to Mormonism) Orrin Hatch Ezra Taft Benson's interest in Vice President Mormon Splinter Groups. Bringhurst is editing a book to be published in September 2007 on the Mormon splinter groups. There have been some 400 splinter groups which have broken off from the Mormon Church; some 60 groups are active currently. There have been many claims of revelation and priesthood succession outside of the LDS Church. A list of such would include: Sidney Rigdon, William Law, David Whitmer, Lyman Wight, Wycam Clark, Noah Rogers and a number of modern Mormon Fundamentalist groups   Topics from Callers Mormon persecution in Missouri - politics and gathering  Diversity among Fundamentalist Mormons Claims of priesthood outside of the Church Apostasy of the LDS Church by giving the Blacks the Priesthood Importance of consensus within the Church     Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 5 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

The Romneys; Mormon Splinter Groups My guest is Newell Bringhurst past president of the Mormon History Association, the John Whitmer Historical Association and author of many works on diverse areas of Mormon history.Bringhurst has written a paper comparing the Presidential campaigns of George Romney (1968) and his son Mitt Romney (2008).Mitt has considered some of the problems and mistakes of his father. George Romney was the front-runner for a time as the Republican candidate.    Only Mormon issue he faced was LDS policy of denying priesthood to the Blacks.     Citizenship issue was raised because he was born in Mexico. His grandfather went to Mexico to avoid polygamy prosecution, but his parents were both American citizens. Brainwashing statement   Lessons Mitt learned from his father's compaign    Care in rhetoric  Name recognition Listing of other Mormon Presidential candidates.  Joseph Smith  Parley Christensen George Romney Morris Udall Bo Grits Eldridge Cleaver (before he converted to Mormonism) Orrin Hatch Ezra Taft Benson's interest in Vice President Mormon Splinter Groups. Bringhurst is editing a book to be published in September 2007 on the Mormon splinter groups. There have been some 400 splinter groups which have broken off from the Mormon Church; some 60 groups are active currently. There have been many claims of revelation and priesthood succession outside of the LDS Church. A list of such would include: Sidney Rigdon, William Law, David Whitmer, Lyman Wight, Wycam Clark, Noah Rogers and a number of modern Mormon Fundamentalist groups   Topics from Callers Mormon persecution in Missouri - politics and gathering  Diversity among Fundamentalist Mormons Claims of priesthood outside of the Church Apostasy of the LDS Church by giving the Blacks the Priesthood Importance of consensus within the Church     Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 5 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

  Sunstone: Interview with Dan Wotherspoon My guest was Dan Wotherspoon, executive director and editor of Sunstone Magazine, with a doctorate in theology and philosopy of religion. We discussed the upcoming Sunstone Symposium, including some of the 95 sessions, the mission and future of Sunstone and a number of topics raised by callers. Changes in Sunstone announced with John Dehlin as the new executive director, taking over fundraising and the website. 28th Salt Lake Symposium 8-11 August 2007 - Some sessions Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance Mitt Romney papers and panel discussion Mormon splinter groups Grant McMurray former prophet/president of the Community of Christ Church (formerly the RLDS Church) Helen Whitney, producer of the PBS documentary "The Mormons" is presenting at a special session Sunstone Mission: Open Forum of Thought,  "Faith Seeking Understanding." Sunstone finances. Audio files of the 2007 Symposium will be available in mp3 format on sunstoneonline.com within about 2 weeks after the Symposium. Comments on the future impressive additions and development of the website. Multiple sides of Mormon issues are welcomed at Sunstone. Topics Raised by Callers: Mitt Romney's candidacy What is Dialogue Journal Joseph Smith translation of the Bible King James Translations and other versions What is the Official Church position on Sunstone? What about those born into bad circumstances? The tribe of Judah Is there policy against BYU professors participating at Sunstone? Vision of the redemption of the dead D&C 138:50-51 on resurrection. A criticism that those at Sunstone prefer the past prophets and authorities over the current Prophet. Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 29 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.