Call and Response with Krishna Das

Ep. 16 Spiritual Practice and the State of the World How do we live a spiritual life in today’s political climate? “When Maharajji was around physically…  something was going on, some upheaval, political problems, and one of His devotees came to Him and said, “Oh, if there was only a king like King Janaka”, who, in the history of India, was an enlightened King, you know? “If there was only someone like Janaka to fix up all this political stuff.” Maharajji said, “there’s a King greater than Janaka now who is taking care of all this.” There is somebody running the show. “And if it has to go this way now, let it go.” That doesn’t mean we don’t do everything we have to do in regard to this, but the most important thing is to remember that, when you take your last breath, whatever karmas you have, whatever programs are still running in there, are going to keep running into your next incarnation. So you do your best work right now…” – Krishna Das Q: When Maharajji was around physically, one of His, something was going on, some upheaval, political problems and one of His devotees came to Him and said, “Oh, if there was only a king like King Janaka”, who, in the history of India, was an enlightened King, you know? “If there was only someone like Janaka to fix up all this political stuff.” Maharajji said, “there’s a King greater than Janaka now who is taking care of all this.” There is somebody running the show. “And if it has to go this way now, let it go.” That doesn’t mean we don’t do everything we have to do in regards to this, but the most important thing is to remember that, when you take your last breath, whatever karmas you have, whatever programs are still running in there, are going to keep running into your next incarnation. So you do your best work right now and difficult times, it shows us a lot, but it’s very difficult. You don’t have to solve the whole thing, but just be aware that there’s an inner and an outer and what you can have some say about, on one hand, is your inner and whatever you can control on the outer, you can do, too. But if you do it with anger, like I always hated John Lennon, “Give Peace A Chance.” He was just an angry motherfucker. He was an angry cranky drug addict motherfucker and he would sing, “Give Peace a Chance,”damn.  You know he was arguing with you. I’m telling you, “Give Peace a chance, goddammit.” That’s what it sounded like to me and you know, there’s no peace in that. It was a nice, “give peace a chance and let me shoot up later, ok?” “And if I can’t get my stuff, I’m gonna kill you.” It’s not real. That whole gloss of culture is just completely bullshit, you know? People cover up their stuff and they act like this, but that’s not really helping anybody. He didn’t deal with his demons until much later. Let’s deal with our demons now. And luckily, we’re getting a lot of help with that. So, who knows what’s going to happen. Nobody knows what’s going to happen. It’s horrible. Most people I hang out with agree, it’s not very pleasant, but there a lot of people who are just as happy as pigs in shit. This is what they wanted. They finally got it. It’s kind of humbling, you know, to recognize that so much of America wanted this. Enough to make it happen. So, we’ll do what we can to try to get it back to, or get it forward to another way that we think is better for us and everybody. We’ll do that but at the same time, we can’t lose sight that every minute is right here. If we’re lost in blind reaction to this stuff, we’re just creating more suffering for ourselves and others. Period. You know? I sneak little peaks at things and I go, “Aw, shit.” So, I don’t bring politics into this stuff because I think, this is what I do, right? And everybody’s welcome. If I say, I’m for this one or that one, that’s just my own personal thing, but this is not personal. Everybody should feel welcome to come sing and that’s, I feel very strongly about that. I’m not,

Ep. 16 Spiritual Practice and the State of the World How do we live a spiritual life in today’s political climate? “When Maharajji was around physically…  something was going on, some upheaval, political problems, and one of His devotees came to Him and said, “Oh, if there was only a king like King Janaka”, who, in the history of India, was an enlightened King, you know? “If there was only someone like Janaka to fix up all this political stuff.” Maharajji said, “there’s a King greater than Janaka now who is taking care of all this.” There is somebody running the show. “And if it has to go this way now, let it go.” That doesn’t mean we don’t do everything we have to do in regard to this, but the most important thing is to remember that, when you take your last breath, whatever karmas you have, whatever programs are still running in there, are going to keep running into your next incarnation. So you do your best work right now…” – Krishna Das Q: When Maharajji was around physically, one of His, something was going on, some upheaval, political problems and one of His devotees came to Him and said, “Oh, if there was only a king like King Janaka”, who, in the history of India, was an enlightened King, you know? “If there was only someone like Janaka to fix up all this political stuff.” Maharajji said, “there’s a King greater than Janaka now who is taking care of all this.” There is somebody running the show. “And if it has to go this way now, let it go.” That doesn’t mean we don’t do everything we have to do in regards to this, but the most important thing is to remember that, when you take your last breath, whatever karmas you have, whatever programs are still running in there, are going to keep running into your next incarnation. So you do your best work right now and difficult times, it shows us a lot, but it’s very difficult. You don’t have to solve the whole thing, but just be aware that there’s an inner and an outer and what you can have some say about, on one hand, is your inner and whatever you can control on the outer, you can do, too. But if you do it with anger, like I always hated John Lennon, “Give Peace A Chance.” He was just an angry motherfucker. He was an angry cranky drug addict motherfucker and he would sing, “Give Peace a Chance,”damn.  You know he was arguing with you. I’m telling you, “Give Peace a chance, goddammit.” That’s what it sounded like to me and you know, there’s no peace in that. It was a nice, “give peace a chance and let me shoot up later, ok?” “And if I can’t get my stuff, I’m gonna kill you.” It’s not real. That whole gloss of culture is just completely bullshit, you know? People cover up their stuff and they act like this, but that’s not really helping anybody. He didn’t deal with his demons until much later. Let’s deal with our demons now. And luckily, we’re getting a lot of help with that. So, who knows what’s going to happen. Nobody knows what’s going to happen. It’s horrible. Most people I hang out with agree, it’s not very pleasant, but there a lot of people who are just as happy as pigs in shit. This is what they wanted. They finally got it. It’s kind of humbling, you know, to recognize that so much of America wanted this. Enough to make it happen. So, we’ll do what we can to try to get it back to, or get it forward to another way that we think is better for us and everybody. We’ll do that but at the same time, we can’t lose sight that every minute is right here. If we’re lost in blind reaction to this stuff, we’re just creating more suffering for ourselves and others. Period. You know? I sneak little peaks at things and I go, “Aw, shit.” So, I don’t bring politics into this stuff because I think, this is what I do, right? And everybody’s welcome. If I say, I’m for this one or that one, that’s just my own personal thing, but this is not personal. Everybody should feel welcome to come sing and that’s, I feel very strongly about that. I’m not,

Ep. 15 ~ Our State of Mind Is Everything How does one’s state of mind color one’s world view? “I remember the first rainy season. Oh, everything was wet. The bed is wet. The hair was wet. The clothes were wet. You sat down, it was wet. You stood up, it was wet. You got on the bus, wet came down on you. There was no place it wasn’t wet. For three months, I was like… And then, I remember like the second year, wet. By the third year, wet. Nothing. It didn’t, I hardly noticed. It was strange. I go to India now, it’s so hot. I lived there in those days. There was no air conditioning. There was nothing. It was 120 degrees and I don’t remember being hot. Now, it’s like oof. So, it’s, state of mind is everything. Everything. Everything.” – Krishna Das We used to sit in front of Maharajji and nothing would happen. You know, we saw people who went to these Gurus down south who could bounce around the room and squawk like chickens and stuff like that. But nothing would ever happen. I kept wanting something to happen. And even though nothing was happening, there was still no place in the whole world I wanted to be other than sitting right there because it was home. And you know, we used to say to Him, you know, “How do we find God?” We figured He knew, He would tell us. He seemed to like us. At least, He let us hang around. “How do we find God?” He said, “Serve people.” You know, what? Serve people? Well, ok. How do you raise Kundalini? “Feed people.” What? Serve everyone. Feed everyone. And then He used to say, “From going on repeating these names,” these Names of God as they call them in India, “Everything is made full and complete. Everything is brought to completion. Everything is made full.” He said it 100 times and it’s been about how many years? 43 years since He left the body. I still don’t believe it. And I heard Him say it. I mean, I figure, it possibly could be true. Maybe. Ok. I know that He’s telling the truth but I don’t know what He’s talking about. But little by little, the guy who can’t understand what He’s talking about is being worn away. Disappearing. Becoming more transparent. So all those thoughts about like, what the fuck does He mean? Are disappearing. They’re not arising. So when those thoughts don’t arise, you don’t feel a certain way, right? But what you do with thoughts, you can’t stop those thoughts. You can’t stop thoughts. Because all we do is think all day long. All we do. Think think think. Think about this, think about that. Think about me me me me me. So that’s what that means. By cultivating these, opening up these passageways, training the mind to remember to do something else other than think about yourself all the time, little by little, even when those thoughts arise, even when those stories arise, even when we notice that we’re really involved in something, they don’t get us the same way. They don’t grab us the same way. They don’t grab us for so long. And there’s no timeline on this. It’s not written out anyplace we can see it as when we’ll finally figure it out or wake up. You don’t ever figure it out. We’re asleep. One of these days, we’ll wake up. That’s it. But while we’re asleep, in our sleep, there are things we can do, like chanting, meditation, different types of practices. These are the things that slowly move us closer to the edge of the bed, then we fall off and wake up when we hit the ground. So, when we chant, just chant. When you notice that you’re not paying attention, just chant. Let it go. Come back to the chanting. It’s not rocket science. There’s nothing to figure out. Sing. When you notice you’re not singing, sing. That’s it. At least for today, these few hours, and time we’re chanting, that’s the deal. Nothing’s gonna happen. I guarantee you, when you leave here you’ll be the same person you were when you walked in. But maybe, you won’t care so much. At least for a few minutes. Because we’re kind of stepping out of the traffi...

Ep. 15 ~ Our State of Mind Is Everything How does one’s state of mind color one’s world view? “I remember the first rainy season. Oh, everything was wet. The bed is wet. The hair was wet. The clothes were wet. You sat down, it was wet. You stood up, it was wet. You got on the bus, wet came down on you. There was no place it wasn’t wet. For three months, I was like… And then, I remember like the second year, wet. By the third year, wet. Nothing. It didn’t, I hardly noticed. It was strange. I go to India now, it’s so hot. I lived there in those days. There was no air conditioning. There was nothing. It was 120 degrees and I don’t remember being hot. Now, it’s like oof. So, it’s, state of mind is everything. Everything. Everything.” – Krishna Das We used to sit in front of Maharajji and nothing would happen. You know, we saw people who went to these Gurus down south who could bounce around the room and squawk like chickens and stuff like that. But nothing would ever happen. I kept wanting something to happen. And even though nothing was happening, there was still no place in the whole world I wanted to be other than sitting right there because it was home. And you know, we used to say to Him, you know, “How do we find God?” We figured He knew, He would tell us. He seemed to like us. At least, He let us hang around. “How do we find God?” He said, “Serve people.” You know, what? Serve people? Well, ok. How do you raise Kundalini? “Feed people.” What? Serve everyone. Feed everyone. And then He used to say, “From going on repeating these names,” these Names of God as they call them in India, “Everything is made full and complete. Everything is brought to completion. Everything is made full.” He said it 100 times and it’s been about how many years? 43 years since He left the body. I still don’t believe it. And I heard Him say it. I mean, I figure, it possibly could be true. Maybe. Ok. I know that He’s telling the truth but I don’t know what He’s talking about. But little by little, the guy who can’t understand what He’s talking about is being worn away. Disappearing. Becoming more transparent. So all those thoughts about like, what the fuck does He mean? Are disappearing. They’re not arising. So when those thoughts don’t arise, you don’t feel a certain way, right? But what you do with thoughts, you can’t stop those thoughts. You can’t stop thoughts. Because all we do is think all day long. All we do. Think think think. Think about this, think about that. Think about me me me me me. So that’s what that means. By cultivating these, opening up these passageways, training the mind to remember to do something else other than think about yourself all the time, little by little, even when those thoughts arise, even when those stories arise, even when we notice that we’re really involved in something, they don’t get us the same way. They don’t grab us the same way. They don’t grab us for so long. And there’s no timeline on this. It’s not written out anyplace we can see it as when we’ll finally figure it out or wake up. You don’t ever figure it out. We’re asleep. One of these days, we’ll wake up. That’s it. But while we’re asleep, in our sleep, there are things we can do, like chanting, meditation, different types of practices. These are the things that slowly move us closer to the edge of the bed, then we fall off and wake up when we hit the ground. So, when we chant, just chant. When you notice that you’re not paying attention, just chant. Let it go. Come back to the chanting. It’s not rocket science. There’s nothing to figure out. Sing. When you notice you’re not singing, sing. That’s it. At least for today, these few hours, and time we’re chanting, that’s the deal. Nothing’s gonna happen. I guarantee you, when you leave here you’ll be the same person you were when you walked in. But maybe, you won’t care so much. At least for a few minutes. Because we’re kind of stepping out of the traffi...

Ep. 14 ~ KD Chats with Bob Thurman Robert A.F. Thurman recently retired as Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies in theDepartment of Religion atColumbia University,President of theTibet House U.S., a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Tibetan civilization,Time magazine chose Professor Thurman as one of its 25 most influential Americans in 1997, describing him as a “larger than life scholar-activist destined to convey the Dharma, the precious teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha, from Asia to America.” The New York Times recently said Thurman “is considered the leading American expert onTibetan Buddhism.Inspired by his good friend the Dalai Lama, Thurman stands on Buddhism’s open reality, and thence takes us along with him into an expanded vision of the world, whether the sweep of history, the subtleties of the inner science of the psyche, or the wonders of the life of the heart.He always shares the sense of refuge in the Dharma, which unfailingly helps us clear away the shrouds of fear and confusion, sustains us with the cheerfulness of an enriched present, and opens a door to a path of realistic hope for a peaceful future.“There’s two ways of looking at the sublime continuum, which is to say the Buddha Nature.There’s one way where the Buddha says, ‘Buddha nature is something we teach to reassure people who are frightened when we say ‘selfless’ and they think there’s no soul.’ So BuddhaNature sort of substitutes for soul. But that’s a lower way of looking at it. A higher way of looking at Buddha Nature is, it is Reality Itself in the form of the fact that enlightened Beings,Beings who are truly enlightened, which doesn’t mean every kind of deity, but some of them, maybe, but enlightened Beings feel, they viscerally feel themselves to be everybody else. So, for example, any Buddha, and there are millions of them, but particularly the one who worries most about us at the moment is Shakyamuni, you know, Siddhartha’s last Shakyamuni, He is you, Krishna Das, and Me, from His perspective. He’s us. He actually enjoys being us. He does.”–Robert Thurman   Call and Response podcasts are made possible by the Kirtan Wallah Foundation Your support via direct donations go toward offerings such as this series, new teaching materials,  as well as the the compilation of all of KD’s work on the Path, for the purpose of sharing it with everyone in a variety of media. Kirtan Wallah Foundation is also be able to offer assistance to organizations around the world, whose efforts are in alignment with the teachings of Neem Karoli Baba. For more information about the work of the foundation you can visit our blog for recent updates as well as sign up for our foundation news letter. A note about your donation: Donations can be made via Paypal below and are tax deductible under 501c3 guidelines. If you prefer to give via a check, please send your donation to Kirtan Wallah Foundation | 35 east 4th Street | Apt #1 | Brooklyn, NY | 11218. We thank you in advance for your generosity. “Donations are like streams, flowing into the great river of compassion that carries us to the ocean of Love.” ~ KD

Ep. 14 ~ KD Chats with Bob Thurman Robert A.F. Thurman recently retired as Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies in theDepartment of Religion atColumbia University,President of theTibet House U.S., a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Tibetan civilization,Time magazine chose Professor Thurman as one of its 25 most influential Americans in 1997, describing him as a “larger than life scholar-activist destined to convey the Dharma, the precious teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha, from Asia to America.” The New York Times recently said Thurman “is considered the leading American expert onTibetan Buddhism.Inspired by his good friend the Dalai Lama, Thurman stands on Buddhism’s open reality, and thence takes us along with him into an expanded vision of the world, whether the sweep of history, the subtleties of the inner science of the psyche, or the wonders of the life of the heart.He always shares the sense of refuge in the Dharma, which unfailingly helps us clear away the shrouds of fear and confusion, sustains us with the cheerfulness of an enriched present, and opens a door to a path of realistic hope for a peaceful future.“There’s two ways of looking at the sublime continuum, which is to say the Buddha Nature.There’s one way where the Buddha says, ‘Buddha nature is something we teach to reassure people who are frightened when we say ‘selfless’ and they think there’s no soul.’ So BuddhaNature sort of substitutes for soul. But that’s a lower way of looking at it. A higher way of looking at Buddha Nature is, it is Reality Itself in the form of the fact that enlightened Beings,Beings who are truly enlightened, which doesn’t mean every kind of deity, but some of them, maybe, but enlightened Beings feel, they viscerally feel themselves to be everybody else. So, for example, any Buddha, and there are millions of them, but particularly the one who worries most about us at the moment is Shakyamuni, you know, Siddhartha’s last Shakyamuni, He is you, Krishna Das, and Me, from His perspective. He’s us. He actually enjoys being us. He does.”–Robert Thurman   Call and Response podcasts are made possible by the Kirtan Wallah Foundation Your support via direct donations go toward offerings such as this series, new teaching materials,  as well as the the compilation of all of KD’s work on the Path, for the purpose of sharing it with everyone in a variety of media. Kirtan Wallah Foundation is also be able to offer assistance to organizations around the world, whose efforts are in alignment with the teachings of Neem Karoli Baba. For more information about the work of the foundation you can visit our blog for recent updates as well as sign up for our foundation news letter. A note about your donation: Donations can be made via Paypal below and are tax deductible under 501c3 guidelines. If you prefer to give via a check, please send your donation to Kirtan Wallah Foundation | 35 east 4th Street | Apt #1 | Brooklyn, NY | 11218. We thank you in advance for your generosity. “Donations are like streams, flowing into the great river of compassion that carries us to the ocean of Love.” ~ KD

Ep.13 ~ Remembering Bernie Glassman Roshi Bernie Glassman, an American Zen Master affectionately referred to as “Bernie,” was a vibrant character who had a significant influence on American dharma. Along with being a Zen master, was also an aeronautical engineer, a social entrepreneur, an interfaith activist, and a clown.  Bernie left his body in late 2018.  In this episode, KD shares his recollections on his great friend. At 11:42 KD sings “Hungry Hearts” chant. This chant was recently recorded for Bernie’s memorial. If you would like to download this chant for your practice, its available in our digital library details are below. You can also find a video of KD and Bernie together on YouTube channel Krishna Das Music, and album recording of Sri Hanuman Chalisa / Gate of Sweet Nectar on the album Door of Faith. “He was pulled to relieve the suffering, to confront the fear around those situations, to melt and vaporize the arrows of anger and shame and greed and fear that are release in all directions by our egoistic self-serving desires, self-protection, walls we put up, laws we make to limit people’s freedoms, everything that causes suffering was what Bernie wanted to relieve.“ ~ Krishna Das  {photo: Peter Cunningham, 2001} Transcription: I’m here at the Sivananda ashram in the Bahamas where I first met Bernie Glassman on the eve of the millennium. I arrived here for the first and he had already been here for a few days. I knew about him. I had seen his picture and I’d heard about these Homeless Street Retreats that he took people on. And I looked at his picture and I was scared shitless. There was no way I was going to meet him or go on these retreats, but when I ran into him here at the ashram in the Bahamas, he came up to me, and he said, “You’re Krishna Das?” And I said, “Yeah.” He said, “I’ve been listening to you every day since my wife died.” And I said, “What?” And he said, “I’ve been listening. I put the headphones on and play ‘Namah Shivaya’ over and over and I just do my work on the computer.” And that was it. I fell in love with him and it was love at first sight.  He so sweet to me, so kind. And in that closeness that I felt to him, I never felt any awe. It was always perfect at-easement and loving friendship. Now that he has left the body, even though I miss him so much, mostly I feel awe. He seems to fill the universe. Because there was nowhere he wouldn’t go. There was nothing he wouldn’t face. There was no fear that he wouldn’t confront with love and kindness and caring. Everybody was a part of his family. He greeted everyone equally. He didn’t carry signs and badges to advertise how great a being he was, and the real sign of greatness. My guru, Neem Karoli Baba, looked like somebody’s grandfather. And in fact, one time, He said, “I could have been a really big Saint. I could have been a really big Saint, but I had one fault.” And his devotee said, “Baba, what was that?” He said, “Too much compassion.” And that was Bernie. Too much compassion to take anything for himself. Too much compassion to advertise himself. Too much compassion to be a great Zen Master. He cared too much about people. He wanted to meet everyone exactly where they are. And that’s the mark of a real Great Being. Shortly after I met him, I got an email from him with eight lines of a prayer called “The Gates of Sweet Nectar” from the Japanese prayer book, “The Kan Ro Mon”, the Japanese liturgy and apparently this was Bernie’s fa...

Ep.13 ~ Remembering Bernie Glassman Roshi Bernie Glassman, an American Zen Master affectionately referred to as “Bernie,” was a vibrant character who had a significant influence on American dharma. Along with being a Zen master, was also an aeronautical engineer, a social entrepreneur, an interfaith activist, and a clown.  Bernie left his body in late 2018.  In this episode, KD shares his recollections on his great friend. At 11:42 KD sings “Hungry Hearts” chant. This chant was recently recorded for Bernie’s memorial. If you would like to download this chant for your practice, its available in our digital library details are below. You can also find a video of KD and Bernie together on YouTube channel Krishna Das Music, and album recording of Sri Hanuman Chalisa / Gate of Sweet Nectar on the album Door of Faith. “He was pulled to relieve the suffering, to confront the fear around those situations, to melt and vaporize the arrows of anger and shame and greed and fear that are release in all directions by our egoistic self-serving desires, self-protection, walls we put up, laws we make to limit people’s freedoms, everything that causes suffering was what Bernie wanted to relieve.“ ~ Krishna Das  {photo: Peter Cunningham, 2001} Transcription: I’m here at the Sivananda ashram in the Bahamas where I first met Bernie Glassman on the eve of the millennium. I arrived here for the first and he had already been here for a few days. I knew about him. I had seen his picture and I’d heard about these Homeless Street Retreats that he took people on. And I looked at his picture and I was scared shitless. There was no way I was going to meet him or go on these retreats, but when I ran into him here at the ashram in the Bahamas, he came up to me, and he said, “You’re Krishna Das?” And I said, “Yeah.” He said, “I’ve been listening to you every day since my wife died.” And I said, “What?” And he said, “I’ve been listening. I put the headphones on and play ‘Namah Shivaya’ over and over and I just do my work on the computer.” And that was it. I fell in love with him and it was love at first sight.  He so sweet to me, so kind. And in that closeness that I felt to him, I never felt any awe. It was always perfect at-easement and loving friendship. Now that he has left the body, even though I miss him so much, mostly I feel awe. He seems to fill the universe. Because there was nowhere he wouldn’t go. There was nothing he wouldn’t face. There was no fear that he wouldn’t confront with love and kindness and caring. Everybody was a part of his family. He greeted everyone equally. He didn’t carry signs and badges to advertise how great a being he was, and the real sign of greatness. My guru, Neem Karoli Baba, looked like somebody’s grandfather. And in fact, one time, He said, “I could have been a really big Saint. I could have been a really big Saint, but I had one fault.” And his devotee said, “Baba, what was that?” He said, “Too much compassion.” And that was Bernie. Too much compassion to take anything for himself. Too much compassion to advertise himself. Too much compassion to be a great Zen Master. He cared too much about people. He wanted to meet everyone exactly where they are. And that’s the mark of a real Great Being. Shortly after I met him, I got an email from him with eight lines of a prayer called “The Gates of Sweet Nectar” from the Japanese prayer book, “The Kan Ro Mon”, the Japanese liturgy and apparently this was Bernie’s fa...

Ep.12 ~ Krishna Das chats with Lama Surya Das Krishna Das chats with Lama Surya Das, one of the foremost Western Buddhist meditation teachers and scholars, and a long-time friend. In this interview, the conversation between KD and Lama Surya Das touches on the subjects of spiritual practice, retreat, death, mindfulness, compassion and more. At 55:20, KD and Lama Surya Das chant the Buddhist mantra “Om Mani Pedmé Hung” together. “You know, one time, Maharajji said, ‘I hold the keys to the mind,’ …  and then He teased us and said, ‘I can turn your minds against me.’ ‘No Baba, don’t do that.’ And He’d laugh, you know? So I said to Siddhi Ma, I said, “Ma, Maharajji says He holds the keys to the mind, which means to me that I am exactly where He wants me to be at all times, otherwise I’d be somewhere else, mentally, I mean like, spiritually, internally. My experience would be different. So, I’m where He wants me to be. So where does personal effort come in? Is it all grace? Or is it personal effort’” She says, ‘It’s all grace, but you have to act like it isn’t.’”– Krishna Das Transcription: SURYA DAS: Talking, shouting at Krishna Das… Badmash… Aap Jao KRISHNA DAS: SurDas. I’m going to call you Surdas from now on. SURYA DAS: Ok. KRISHNA DAS: That was Maharajji’s name for you, wasn’t it? Surdas. That’s amazing. Because you’re a poet, you’re a poet and He knew it. Nina: Maharajji called him Surdas? KRISHNA DAS: Yeah, but nobody knew who Surdas was. So Surdas came out. We didn’t know Surdas at the time. Nina: We should call him Surdas. SURYA DAS: Surdas, the blind poet devotee of Baby Krishna. KRISHNA DAS: Baby Krishna, yeah. And you know, they say, the devotion to Baby Krishna is the most complete because there’s no, it’s completely pure with a baby, you know? SURYA DAS: There’s no interpersonal… KRISHNA DAS: There’s no interpersonal, there’s no anything. There’s no story line. It’s just that love. And Surdas, who was blind, used to see the Leela’s and just describe them. SURYA DAS: I have a poster of Him, you know, it’s a famous poster. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah. SURYA DAS: And Baby Krishna’s like, in front of Him, looking up at Him. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah, just like that, amazing. So, just to start it off, my question is this, you know, you did many many years of intense practice and one of the practices in the Ngondro and the preliminary practices is the 100,000 repetitions of the Mani Mantra, and you did that, right? SURYA DAS: Well, there’s more than that. Hundreds of thousands of different mantras. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah. SURYA DAS: The purification mantra and the guru yoga mantras and other things. KRISHNA DAS: All of it in that practice while you were doing it? SURYA DAS: In Ngondro. The Foundation practices of Vajrayana Buddhism. KRISHNA DAS: I’m interested, personally, I’ve never done that kind of personal intense mantra practice. I mean, so I mean, I’ve done a lot, but not that kind of formal… SURYA DAS: Then half your life is wasted, as they say… KRISHNA DAS: Yes that’s true. Very nice. I’ve already wasted more than half my life. I’m hoping to waste this next half. SURYA DAS: No, but you often talk about taking the name, and the name of a God, and repeating the names, and what kind of practice that is. And you know, whether you use words like japa or yoga or mantra yoga or what we call mantrayana and other things, but you do the Name, so if you were counting, you’d probably, you know, you’d do 100 thousands of Ram Nam or Hare Krishna. Especially Ram Nam, you do a lot. Hundreds of thousands of… there’s really no need to count, that’s just a way of… you can do Ngondro, these foundation practices, by number, which is easy, like saying 21 Hail Marys and then you’re done, or you can do by time, like a one-month retreat or a three-month retreat and then you move on to the...

Ep.12 ~ Krishna Das chats with Lama Surya Das Krishna Das chats with Lama Surya Das, one of the foremost Western Buddhist meditation teachers and scholars, and a long-time friend. In this interview, the conversation between KD and Lama Surya Das touches on the subjects of spiritual practice, retreat, death, mindfulness, compassion and more. At 55:20, KD and Lama Surya Das chant the Buddhist mantra “Om Mani Pedmé Hung” together. “You know, one time, Maharajji said, ‘I hold the keys to the mind,’ …  and then He teased us and said, ‘I can turn your minds against me.’ ‘No Baba, don’t do that.’ And He’d laugh, you know? So I said to Siddhi Ma, I said, “Ma, Maharajji says He holds the keys to the mind, which means to me that I am exactly where He wants me to be at all times, otherwise I’d be somewhere else, mentally, I mean like, spiritually, internally. My experience would be different. So, I’m where He wants me to be. So where does personal effort come in? Is it all grace? Or is it personal effort’” She says, ‘It’s all grace, but you have to act like it isn’t.’”– Krishna Das Transcription: SURYA DAS: Talking, shouting at Krishna Das… Badmash… Aap Jao KRISHNA DAS: SurDas. I’m going to call you Surdas from now on. SURYA DAS: Ok. KRISHNA DAS: That was Maharajji’s name for you, wasn’t it? Surdas. That’s amazing. Because you’re a poet, you’re a poet and He knew it. Nina: Maharajji called him Surdas? KRISHNA DAS: Yeah, but nobody knew who Surdas was. So Surdas came out. We didn’t know Surdas at the time. Nina: We should call him Surdas. SURYA DAS: Surdas, the blind poet devotee of Baby Krishna. KRISHNA DAS: Baby Krishna, yeah. And you know, they say, the devotion to Baby Krishna is the most complete because there’s no, it’s completely pure with a baby, you know? SURYA DAS: There’s no interpersonal… KRISHNA DAS: There’s no interpersonal, there’s no anything. There’s no story line. It’s just that love. And Surdas, who was blind, used to see the Leela’s and just describe them. SURYA DAS: I have a poster of Him, you know, it’s a famous poster. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah. SURYA DAS: And Baby Krishna’s like, in front of Him, looking up at Him. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah, just like that, amazing. So, just to start it off, my question is this, you know, you did many many years of intense practice and one of the practices in the Ngondro and the preliminary practices is the 100,000 repetitions of the Mani Mantra, and you did that, right? SURYA DAS: Well, there’s more than that. Hundreds of thousands of different mantras. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah. SURYA DAS: The purification mantra and the guru yoga mantras and other things. KRISHNA DAS: All of it in that practice while you were doing it? SURYA DAS: In Ngondro. The Foundation practices of Vajrayana Buddhism. KRISHNA DAS: I’m interested, personally, I’ve never done that kind of personal intense mantra practice. I mean, so I mean, I’ve done a lot, but not that kind of formal… SURYA DAS: Then half your life is wasted, as they say… KRISHNA DAS: Yes that’s true. Very nice. I’ve already wasted more than half my life. I’m hoping to waste this next half. SURYA DAS: No, but you often talk about taking the name, and the name of a God, and repeating the names, and what kind of practice that is. And you know, whether you use words like japa or yoga or mantra yoga or what we call mantrayana and other things, but you do the Name, so if you were counting, you’d probably, you know, you’d do 100 thousands of Ram Nam or Hare Krishna. Especially Ram Nam, you do a lot. Hundreds of thousands of… there’s really no need to count, that’s just a way of… you can do Ngondro, these foundation practices, by number, which is easy, like saying 21 Hail Marys and then you’re done, or you can do by time, like a one-month retreat or a three-month retreat and then you move on to the...

Ep.11 ~ Well Being “One time, an old lady came to Maharajji, and she said, “Baba, show me God. Show me God, Baba.” And she was all emotional. Baba said, “Ok, Ma. Not now. Go away.” So later, at the end of the day, see she had come from a local town, and at the end of the day, she had to catch the bus back to her family, so at the end of the evening, she comes back to pranam to say goodbye to Maharajji and catch the bus. So she bows down and Maharajji says, “Ok, Ma, come here. I’m going to show you God now.” “Not now Baba, I have to go home!” That’s where we are. You know? We want that, but not now, I’m too busy, I have a movie to go to. I have a date tonight, I can’t do that. So, just, you know, be good to yourself. Learn how to do that. Learn how to be good to yourself.”- Krishna Das Transcription: Q: In difficult situations, whether we’re out and about or with our coworkers or families, how to, maybe it’s just a momentary thing, maybe, can you offer some suggestions to, like, to bring our mind back to peace other than being with you now, which, as you said, it almost, like when you’re with, in the right situation, it brings you home and there’s that safety there, but when you’re out in the world, what do you do when you’re in a crowded situation to bring yourself back to a better place? KD: When are you not out in the world? Seriously. When? When you’re home? Our mind is working just the same. So, what I hear is there’s some judgement about you feel less connected to yourself when you’re out with other people and busy and reacting to their stuff. So what? It doesn’t matter. The point is you have to do practice. I’m sorry. Really, I’m sorry. I’m sorry for myself. It’s very important to spend a little time, well, it’s important to recognize what you’re trying to accomplish. It’s a huge thing we’re trying to accomplish here. Look, we’re born, we pop out, we drink some milk, then we get to coffee, then we get to beer, then we die. And we never notice what’s going on. You know, that’s it. Next. So we’re trying to do something that most people in this world are not yet, don’t have the karmas and the situation to arise and the good, the positive karmas to try to find a good way to exist in life. It’s not just out there, it’s at home, too. You know? All the time. So, what’s required is some effort, I think, you know? Which comes from some recognition that we’re totally on automatic all the time. The recognition of that is a really big thing because when you recognize that you’re like, in a speed boat going 1000 MPH towards the waterfall, once you recognize that, then you might be able to take your foot off the accelerator, you know? Before you recognize it, there’s nothing you can do. So let’s imagine that, for the last 300 million births, we noticed that, but just too late, and woosh, over the waterfall, next life, and every life, we recognize it a few feet earlier, and one of these days we’ll recognize it soon enough that we’ll be liberated before the waterfall gets to us, before we go over the edge, before we take our last breath. So what we’re trying to do is a really big thing. A really big thing. And it’s not easy. But it starts with recognizing how out of control we are. And also recognizing everybody around us is out of control also. So, let’s not judge ourselves for that. There’s no reason to do that. We’re just human beings. That’s what we do. That’s why we’re human beings. Because we’re out of control and been out of control. So, once you know that, then you look around for a way to slow down, to calm yourself down. To slow down. To kind of rein in the stuff, to let it relax, let it, let it settle, let the leaves finally reach the ground, right? It takes awhile because there’s so much wind out there. So, there’s no quick answer. You’ll find your way to do it, the more you recognize that it’s your own, and our own inability to find what we want in life. That’s causing us pain.

Ep.11 ~ Well Being “One time, an old lady came to Maharajji, and she said, “Baba, show me God. Show me God, Baba.” And she was all emotional. Baba said, “Ok, Ma. Not now. Go away.” So later, at the end of the day, see she had come from a local town, and at the end of the day, she had to catch the bus back to her family, so at the end of the evening, she comes back to pranam to say goodbye to Maharajji and catch the bus. So she bows down and Maharajji says, “Ok, Ma, come here. I’m going to show you God now.” “Not now Baba, I have to go home!” That’s where we are. You know? We want that, but not now, I’m too busy, I have a movie to go to. I have a date tonight, I can’t do that. So, just, you know, be good to yourself. Learn how to do that. Learn how to be good to yourself.”- Krishna Das Transcription: Q: In difficult situations, whether we’re out and about or with our coworkers or families, how to, maybe it’s just a momentary thing, maybe, can you offer some suggestions to, like, to bring our mind back to peace other than being with you now, which, as you said, it almost, like when you’re with, in the right situation, it brings you home and there’s that safety there, but when you’re out in the world, what do you do when you’re in a crowded situation to bring yourself back to a better place? KD: When are you not out in the world? Seriously. When? When you’re home? Our mind is working just the same. So, what I hear is there’s some judgement about you feel less connected to yourself when you’re out with other people and busy and reacting to their stuff. So what? It doesn’t matter. The point is you have to do practice. I’m sorry. Really, I’m sorry. I’m sorry for myself. It’s very important to spend a little time, well, it’s important to recognize what you’re trying to accomplish. It’s a huge thing we’re trying to accomplish here. Look, we’re born, we pop out, we drink some milk, then we get to coffee, then we get to beer, then we die. And we never notice what’s going on. You know, that’s it. Next. So we’re trying to do something that most people in this world are not yet, don’t have the karmas and the situation to arise and the good, the positive karmas to try to find a good way to exist in life. It’s not just out there, it’s at home, too. You know? All the time. So, what’s required is some effort, I think, you know? Which comes from some recognition that we’re totally on automatic all the time. The recognition of that is a really big thing because when you recognize that you’re like, in a speed boat going 1000 MPH towards the waterfall, once you recognize that, then you might be able to take your foot off the accelerator, you know? Before you recognize it, there’s nothing you can do. So let’s imagine that, for the last 300 million births, we noticed that, but just too late, and woosh, over the waterfall, next life, and every life, we recognize it a few feet earlier, and one of these days we’ll recognize it soon enough that we’ll be liberated before the waterfall gets to us, before we go over the edge, before we take our last breath. So what we’re trying to do is a really big thing. A really big thing. And it’s not easy. But it starts with recognizing how out of control we are. And also recognizing everybody around us is out of control also. So, let’s not judge ourselves for that. There’s no reason to do that. We’re just human beings. That’s what we do. That’s why we’re human beings. Because we’re out of control and been out of control. So, once you know that, then you look around for a way to slow down, to calm yourself down. To slow down. To kind of rein in the stuff, to let it relax, let it, let it settle, let the leaves finally reach the ground, right? It takes awhile because there’s so much wind out there. So, there’s no quick answer. You’ll find your way to do it, the more you recognize that it’s your own, and our own inability to find what we want in life. That’s causing us pain.

Ep.10 ~ Selfless Service One time, Mr. Tiwari, my Indian father, was sitting with Maharajji. Maharajji said, “So, you’re a brahmin, you’re supposed to know everything. What does Krishna teach in the Gita?” So now everybody, if you ask that question, they basically say, “Selfless Service,” right? So, he knew it was a setup, but he said it anyway. “You miserable brahmins, misleading the people. Only God does Selfless Service.” Because God is the whole thing. There is no Self. You know? There’s only That. All of us are just doing the best we can and we’re working on thinning that, that barrier or shell that seems so solid of self.”- Krishna Das Transcription: Q: So, I once thanked you for sharing your practice with us and KD: I belted you, right? Boom. Left hook. Q: Yeah, and you didn’t appreciate that. KD: Listen, this is proof that you can sing your ass off and still be an asshole. Q: No, but this is my question for you, because I’ve actually thought about it a lot, I think that the whole concept of being really cognizant of your ego and letting your ego get fluffed up, for lack of a better word… KD: Fluffed… Q: Fluffed. Is, this is important, but at the same time, if what you’re doing is really just a practice to draw yourself closer to your Guru, to your God, to your Self, to your One, isn’t that, and you’ll really think I’m a brat, but isn’t that really in direct conflict with what the underlying message was of Maharajji, which was to serve others? And so, if what you’re doing is just your practice and, but, are you, do you feel like it’s in service of others? Or how do you wrap around, and I’m not trying to be difficult… KD: You’re just good at it. I said to Ram Das at lunch, it’s weird to be famous for being humble. People say all the time, “Oh, you’re so humble.” I say, “No, no, I know who I am.” “Oh, wow you’re so humble.” Ok, what can I do? It comes to a point where it’s what, me thinks the lady doth protest too much, you know? Fuck it, I’m just going to sing, no matter what, whether I’m taking it personally or not taking it personally, or its good or its bad or people are singing or not singing or I’m in my bathroom alone or I’m with you, I’m going to keep singing. And I’m not, I always say, I sing to save my miserable ass, right? However, through all the years of chanting, my ass has gotten much wider. And all ya’ll are part of it. Thank you. If I, service, just to serve, it doesn’t mean you have to walk around with a big sign saying “I’m serving.” That’s ridiculous. That’s not service. You’re not serving anybody at that point except your own ego. The real Beings that serve humanity, that serve, they have no, they really do service because, you know one time, Mr. Tiwari, my Indian father, was sitting with Maharajji. Maharajji said, “So, you’re a brahmin, you’re supposed to know everything. What does Krishna teach in the Gita?” So now everybody, if you ask that question, they basically say, “Selfless Service,” right? So, he knew it was a setup, but he said it anyway. “You miserable brahmins, misleading the people. Only God does Selfless Service.” Because God is the whole thing. There is no Self. You know? There’s only That. All of us are just doing the best we can and we’re working on thinning that, that barrier or shell that seems so solid of self, but we don’t have to do it with a big sign, or carrying around a sign, if I was sitting here thinking I’m really doing something for you, then I’d be like, “What should I do now? What should I sing now? Should I make them happy? I should sing faster now. Now louder and faster. Ok. Now I’ll sing a soft one.” Ugh. Why would I think about all that stuff? I just sing. And so do you. And maybe because I’m doing my practice, you could do yours. I don’t kmow. I don’t know how it works. But this is what is, this is what the program is at the moment. So, yeah, it’s not necessary for me to think about this al...

Ep.10 ~ Selfless Service One time, Mr. Tiwari, my Indian father, was sitting with Maharajji. Maharajji said, “So, you’re a brahmin, you’re supposed to know everything. What does Krishna teach in the Gita?” So now everybody, if you ask that question, they basically say, “Selfless Service,” right? So, he knew it was a setup, but he said it anyway. “You miserable brahmins, misleading the people. Only God does Selfless Service.” Because God is the whole thing. There is no Self. You know? There’s only That. All of us are just doing the best we can and we’re working on thinning that, that barrier or shell that seems so solid of self.”- Krishna Das Transcription: Q: So, I once thanked you for sharing your practice with us and KD: I belted you, right? Boom. Left hook. Q: Yeah, and you didn’t appreciate that. KD: Listen, this is proof that you can sing your ass off and still be an asshole. Q: No, but this is my question for you, because I’ve actually thought about it a lot, I think that the whole concept of being really cognizant of your ego and letting your ego get fluffed up, for lack of a better word… KD: Fluffed… Q: Fluffed. Is, this is important, but at the same time, if what you’re doing is really just a practice to draw yourself closer to your Guru, to your God, to your Self, to your One, isn’t that, and you’ll really think I’m a brat, but isn’t that really in direct conflict with what the underlying message was of Maharajji, which was to serve others? And so, if what you’re doing is just your practice and, but, are you, do you feel like it’s in service of others? Or how do you wrap around, and I’m not trying to be difficult… KD: You’re just good at it. I said to Ram Das at lunch, it’s weird to be famous for being humble. People say all the time, “Oh, you’re so humble.” I say, “No, no, I know who I am.” “Oh, wow you’re so humble.” Ok, what can I do? It comes to a point where it’s what, me thinks the lady doth protest too much, you know? Fuck it, I’m just going to sing, no matter what, whether I’m taking it personally or not taking it personally, or its good or its bad or people are singing or not singing or I’m in my bathroom alone or I’m with you, I’m going to keep singing. And I’m not, I always say, I sing to save my miserable ass, right? However, through all the years of chanting, my ass has gotten much wider. And all ya’ll are part of it. Thank you. If I, service, just to serve, it doesn’t mean you have to walk around with a big sign saying “I’m serving.” That’s ridiculous. That’s not service. You’re not serving anybody at that point except your own ego. The real Beings that serve humanity, that serve, they have no, they really do service because, you know one time, Mr. Tiwari, my Indian father, was sitting with Maharajji. Maharajji said, “So, you’re a brahmin, you’re supposed to know everything. What does Krishna teach in the Gita?” So now everybody, if you ask that question, they basically say, “Selfless Service,” right? So, he knew it was a setup, but he said it anyway. “You miserable brahmins, misleading the people. Only God does Selfless Service.” Because God is the whole thing. There is no Self. You know? There’s only That. All of us are just doing the best we can and we’re working on thinning that, that barrier or shell that seems so solid of self, but we don’t have to do it with a big sign, or carrying around a sign, if I was sitting here thinking I’m really doing something for you, then I’d be like, “What should I do now? What should I sing now? Should I make them happy? I should sing faster now. Now louder and faster. Ok. Now I’ll sing a soft one.” Ugh. Why would I think about all that stuff? I just sing. And so do you. And maybe because I’m doing my practice, you could do yours. I don’t kmow. I don’t know how it works. But this is what is, this is what the program is at the moment. So, yeah, it’s not necessary for me to think about this al...

Ep.09 ~ Surrender Surrender happens by grace. It’s not an act of personal will. That might be a hard thing to understand because we don’t, you know, grace is such a foreign concept to Westerners, but you know, Ramana Maharshi said, “If you ask the thief to be the policeman, there will be a lot of investigation, but no arrest will ever be made.”  That’s the thing about surrender. If you ask your ego to surrender, it’ll make a good job of looking like it’s trying to do that, all the time it’s getting bigger and stronger.” – Krishna Das Transcription: Q. Could you talk just a little bit about, in regards to your own personal experience then in regards to how it would apply to the rest of us, the process of letting go? KD. It might sound funny to point this out but whenever you’re, let’s say you’re sitting or chanting or doing some practice, or let’s say we’re chanting together, so you might feel something for a minute, it might come, it might go after something else. Where is this experience happening? I’ll answer. It’s happening in here. In each one of us. It’s not outside. It’s not somewhere else. It’s happening within each one of us. Having our own experience. Very different from the person next to you. And if you think about it, we go through our whole day, our whole life having our own experience. Each one of us. And that experience, what we experience, we, is and by our stuff, our, who we think we are, the stuff we like, the stuff we don’t like, the things that happen to us in life, the things that didn’t happen to us in life. Everything that makes us, everything that makes me, me, is what’s having these experiences, and that “me” is what spiritual practice begins to dissolve. So that gradually, the subjective bubble that we’re imprisoned in, and it is prison, the subjective buble that we’re imprisoned in begins to melt away. When Maharajji would say, “All one,” what he’s pointing to is that place when the bubble’s broken and there’s no, and you don’t think you’re that person anymore, you experience yourself in a different way. You don’t disappear, but you experience yourself in a much different way, you’re not limited or imprisoned or defined by your thoughts and emotions but you’re very much here, more here than you are when you’re thinking about shit all the time, Much more here. I mean, it’s inconceivable who much more it is, because it’s inconceivable by definition. You can’t conceive of it. It’s not a concept, it’s the experience of Being. And these Names that we sing, they’re calling us. We think we’re calling them out, but they’re actually pulling us into our Self. We’re being pulling pulled into ourself. Human beings experience being pulled within by your own Being as longing. Longing. That’s the killer. Longing is the killer. That’s what ruins your life. Wanting something we don’t, we think we don’t have. The longing for that, to be in that place, to be That. To feel That. That’s what drives us forward. That’s the saving grace, actually, is the longing. It’s a tough one. It’s very hard to just, to really surrender to That. Accept that. We still think we’re going to squeeze out a little bit of happiness. “I know, it’s just around the corner, I’ll grab it, you know, I can do it, yeah, this is ok, but I’ll get that.”  Good luck. Good luck. I mean that. Good luck. I hope you do. You’d be the first since time began. But you know, anything could happen. All right, any questions or anything? Anybody want to say anything? Talk about anything? I know I’m not like Lama here. I’m not very erudite, but I can bluff my way through it. Sir. Give him the mic. Q: Could you talk just a little bit about, in regards to your own personal experience then in regards to how it would apply to the rest of us, the process of letting go? KD: What does that mean? What does letting go mean? Or? Q: I think we all can understand it in some,