Mountain & Prairie Podcast

Jessica Lewis is a Montana-based metalsmith who is best known for the beautifully unique jewelry she creates for her online shop, Ruby and Revolver. She is also the mother of a two-year-old daughter, who she is raising with her husband in the home they constructed with their own hands in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley. Thanks to her tireless work ethic and disciplined creativity, Jessica has built an authentic and full life around the things she loves most-- her family, her craft, and Western landscapes. • Montana’s rugged mountains and valleys have been a part of Jessica’s life for as long as she can remember, and even though she has traveled widely, she has always returned to Big Sky Country. The Rocky Mountain landscapes inform many aspects of her work, as does her ethic of “doing more with less.” By American standards, she and her family embrace a purposefully minimalist lifestyle which allows Jessica to focus on quality over quantity in both her professional and personal endeavors. In our world of constant connectivity and endless distraction, I’m truly inspired by Jessica’s genuine and mindful approach toward living a simple yet rich and meaningful life. • Jessica was kind enough to take a break from her numerous projects for this fun conversation about her life, creative process, and love of Montana. We chatted about how she got her start making jewelry and how the impending birth of her daughter inspired her to pursue art full time. We talked about how she began making jewelry with the simplest of tools, and how the desire for fancy equipment can distract from the act of making art. We talk a lot about parenthood, and Jessica explains how becoming a mother shifted her perspectives on work and life. We discuss our shared appreciation for Stoic philosophy, and how several specific books have impacted Jessica’s creativity. We talk about the importance of international travel and wisdom gained from spending time abroad. And as usual, we discuss favorite books about the West, the best advice she’s ever received, and several of her unexpected hobbies. • I really loved the conversation and know you will too. Thanks again to Jessica for taking the time to chat. Enjoy! ••• https://mountainandprairie.com/jessica-lewis/ https://rubyandrevolver.com https://mountainandprairie.com/support/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 - How Jessica describes her work 5:00 - Jessica’s jewelry described 7:00 - Embracing the rawness of her work 8:50 - Materials used for her jewelry 10:30 - Why she was drawn to metalworking 12:15 - Starting out with simple tools 14:30 - Importance of her studio 17:00 - Making the leap into full-time art 19:45 - The bravery to pursue artistic dreams 22:50 - How kids change parents’ perspectives 23:45 - Creative mentors and influences 25:50 - Books that have influenced creativity 29:30 - Daily routines 30:55 - Importance of exercise 31:50 - Living in the Bitterroot Valley 32:45 - Growing up in Montana 35:30 - International travels 36:45 - Lessons learned from international travel 39:00 - “Doing more with less" 42:00 - Ed’s weird story about accumulating junk 44:00 - More on parenthood and its effects 46:10 - Advice to new parents 48:30 - Current project of building a new house by hand 52:00 - Jessica’s healthy relationship with technology 57:15 - Advice to aspiring creatives 59:50 - Favorite books 1:03:25 - Favorite films 1:05:30 - Surprising activities 1:07:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:08:30 - Best advice received 1:10:30 - Request of the listeners 1:11:50 - Connect with Jessica online

Len Necefer is a scholar, entrepreneur, and outdoor adventurer who is also a proud member of the Navajo Nation. Academically, Len holds a Ph.D. in engineering and public policy, and he is currently a professor of both Indian Studies and public policy at the University of Arizona. In business, he’s the CEO of NativesOutdoors, a cutting-edge outdoor apparel company that uses its platform to advocate for the cultural empowerment indigenous people. And to top it all off, Len is a committed mountaineer, backcountry skier, and rock climber, having ticked off countless impressive adventures throughout the West. • It is clear that Len has accomplished a lot personally, but what is even more impressive is the positive ripple effect his work is having on the outdoor industry. By melding his professional expertise, personal interests, and cultural heritage, he has become one of the leading voices advocating for Native American representation in outdoor recreation and conservation. His work and personal story have been featured in big-time publications such as Outside and Alpinist, and he’s recently delved into filmmaking with his newest film Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee. As you’ll hear, Len has a unique ability to educate and inspire, and his message is striking a chord with a large, engaged audience. • As you’d expect from a guy as multifaceted as Len, he offers up a wealth of knowledge in our conversation. We talked about his Navajo heritage and discussed the unique history and culture of the Navajo tribe. We chatted about his recent film and discussed the of impact oil and gas development on Native populations in areas such as Bears Ears and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We chatted about the need for mutual respect between the outdoor industry and indigenous groups, and Len explains two fascinating case studies around rock climbing on sacred Native lands. He gives an excellent overview of his company NativesOutdoors, and he explains why he chose to start a business instead of a non-profit. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he ever received. • Thanks so much to Len for carving out time to chat. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/len-necefer/ https://www.natives-outdoors.org http://mountainandprairie.com/support/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:10 - How Len describes his work 6:15 - Len’s early years 7:00 - Navajo background 9:00 - History of the Navajo tribe 12:00 - Len’s new film: "Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee” 16:15 - Oil and gas development’s impact on humans 19:40 - Historic native management of landscapes 22:15 - Preservation of people as new phase of conservation 27:15 - NativesOutdoors 33:00 - For-profit versus non-profit 34:00 - Native Americans and the outdoor industry 38:30 - Climbing Case Studies: Devil’s Tower versus Bears Ears 43:00 - How does he accomplish so much? 45:00 - Len’s work ethic 48:15 - Best books about Native American culture 50:45 - Favorite books about the West 52:00 - Favorite films 53:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 56:15 - Favorite locations in the West 57:00 - Best advice ever received 58:30 - Request of the listeners 59:15 - Connect with Len

Chris Dombrowski is an author, poet, and fishing guide who lives and works in Missoula, Montana. As a writer, Chris is probably best known for his book "Body of Water: A Sage, a Seeker, and the World's Most Elusive Fish," which is one of the best books I’ve read in years. He has also published several collections of poetry, and his newest volume titled "Ragged Anthem" will be released this week. When you merge Chris’s decades of experience in the outdoors with his phenomenal skills as a wordsmith and creative, the end product is some of the most engaging writing that any outdoor lover could ever hope to read. • Chris grew up in Michigan and was always drawn to fishing, hunting, and outdoor adventure. During high school, his favorite English teacher gave him a copy of "A River Runs Through It"—he devoured the book in a day and from that point forward he knew he wanted to be a professional writer living in the American West. Over the following years, he began fish guiding in Montana, attended graduate school in Missoula, and built a solid career as a working writer and poet. Along the way, he formed friendships with such notable western writers as Jim Harrison and David James Duncan, and he established his nonprofit writing workshop, the Beargrass Writing Retreat. • If you are interested in creativity, writing, or the writing process, then you will absolutely love this episode with Chris. We discuss that fateful day when he read "A River Runs Through It" and exactly how that moment changed his life. We discuss his work as a teacher and a guide, and how those skills inform his writing. We talk about his writing process and his writing studio, the importance of creating art with a disciplined, workman-like approach, and how he deals with any self-doubt that may come with publishing his work. We chat in depth about poetry, and Chris offers some great advice for poetry novices like me who want to better understand the art form. We talk about specific writers Chris particularly admires, including John McFee, Thomas McGuane, David James Duncan, Jim Harrison, and more. He offers a ton of great book recommendations, discusses his favorite rivers in Montana, and shares some excellent words of wisdom to people who love the West. • Thanks again to Chris for this fun conversation—I hope you enjoy it! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/chris-dombrowski/ https://www.cdombrowski.com ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:00 - How Chris describes his work 6:30 - Story behind "Body of Water" 13:00 - How writing poetry helps his nonfiction work 17:00 - Structuring nonfiction like McPhee 19:00 - Experience teaching 21:00 - Reading seriously 23:15 - Teaching as a complement to writing 25:30 - Early experiences in Montana 27:00 - First big trip to the Rockies 27:30 - First time reading "A River Runs Through It" 29:00 - Importance of fishing 31:00 - Importance of passion in work 34:30 - Chris’s writing process 38:00 - Importance of having a writing studio 44:00 - Struggle of staying on task 48:30 - Dealing with self doubt 54:30 - How to read poetry 1:00:30 - Lessons learned from Jim Harrison 1:05:00 - Background on "Ragged Anthem” 1:08:30 - In depth conversation on podcasts 1:12:00 - Favorite books about the West 1:19:00 - Favorite rivers in the West 1:21:00 - Words of wisdom 1:25:15 - Connect with Chris

Auden Schendler is Senior Vice President of Sustainability at Aspen Skiing Company, where he focuses on finding large-scale solutions to climate change, specifically through clean energy and activism. Aspen Skiing Company has long been at the forefront of sustainable business practices, and Auden is one of the main forces behind the scenes driving those efforts-- efforts that have positively influenced the ski and outdoor industries at large. In addition to his daily work in Aspen, he’s a well-known author and speaker, and he wrote the amazingly impactful book Getting Green Done: Hard Truths from the Front Lines of the Sustainability Revolution. • For a guy who spends his days deep in the trenches fighting the forces of climate change, Auden is surprisingly upbeat, energetic, and funny-- as you’ll hear, we spend quite a bit of time laughing. But he’s far from naive or overly idealistic-- he is quick to call out “greenwashing” when he sees it and is unapologetically focused on achieving specific, measurable results. Through trial and error and a lot of hard work, Auden has managed to find the balance of the optimism needed to pursue audacious initiatives with the pragmatism required to succeed in a competitive business environment. • From a personal perspective, Auden’s work and writing have been especially impactful on my career-- I read his book a few months after earning my MBA, and it provided a much different perspective from the profit-at-all-costs philosophy that was the norm in business school. So it was obviously an honor to meet him, and I appreciate his letting me hassle him with questions for an hour. • We had a wide-ranging and fun conservation, discussing A work at Aspen Skiing Company and how he got his start in sustainability. We talked a lot about reading and books, specifically how the works of Cormac McCarthy and Jack Kerouac affected his outlook and approach to work. We chat about his daily routine and how he manages to fit so much into a single day, as well as how he wraps his head around pursuing a goal as overwhelming as solving climate change. We also talk about his expedition to Denali, how his kids have changed his outlook, and the importance of daily exercise. And as usual, we discuss favorite books about the West, favorite films, and his favorite location in the West. • This is an excellent episode, and I can’t thank Auden enough for making time in his busy schedule to chat. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/auden-schendler/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:10 - How Auden began his career in sustainability 4:15 - Transition from theoretical sustainability to the business world 7:10 - Balancing patience with action 8:45 - Work as a practice 11:30 - Understanding the need for big challenges 12:45 - Mentors 16:00 - First visits to the West 17:30 - Republicans and the history of conservation 18:45 - On the Road’s influence on Auden 20:00 - Favorite failures 22:00 - Influence of Pat O’Donnell 24:30 - Publicly traded versus private companies 26:00 - Companies as political levels 29:00 - Dealing with climate change deniers 31:15 - Dealing with criticism 33:00 - Basalt fire and community 35:30 - Why does Auden choose to stay in the trenches? 37:15 - Auden’s daily routine 40:15 - How kids change his perspective 42:20 - Favorite books about the West 45:50 - Favorite films 47:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 51:00 - Favorite location in the West 52:45 - Best advice he’s ever received 54:40 - Request of the podcast listeners 55:50 - Connect with Auden

Russ Schnitzer is a Colorado-based conservationist and professional photographer whose love for the landscapes and people of the American West shines through in all aspects of his life. Russ is the Senior Program Officer for Natural Resources at the Gates Family Foundation, one of Colorado’s most effective and generous conservation funders. As a photographer, he’s worked with some of the biggest names in the flyfishing world, including Patagonia, R.L Winston Rod Co., Orvis, The Drake Magazine, The Flyfish Journal, and more. And to top it all off, Russ is a former hotshot wildland firefighter and smokejumper, and, as you’d expect, he has some amazing stories from that period of his life. • Russ grew up in the midwest, but he headed to Idaho for college and has never looked back. During and after college, he fought fires throughout the West, and through that challenging, intense, dangerous work-- and at least one devastating tragedy-- he learned lessons that he still applies to his life today. Russ’s entire career has focused on protecting Western landscapes, and prior to the Gates Family Foundation, he worked for such notable organizations as Trout Unlimited and the Nature Conservancy. In his current role with Gates, he is laser-focused on finding community-driven conservation solutions for threatened landscapes, and during this episode, we go into great depths discussing his philosophies around effective conservation in the West. • Whether you’re interested in the nitty-gritty details of large-scale land conservation or lessons learned from a life of hardcore adventure, there’s something in this episode for you. Russ and I were on a tight schedule, but we still managed to cover a lot... and left plenty of room for a part two at some point in the future. We discuss the value of private land conservation in the West and the need for community buy-in and ownership for all conservation initiatives. We talk about the importance of agriculture from an ecological and economic standpoint, with some very specific examples from eastern Colorado. Russ also shares some stories from his time as a hotshot and smokejumper-- the life-long bonds he formed with his teammates, the impact of these intense experiences on his life, and how he pushed through a terrible tragedy early in his firefighting career. • There is so much wisdom and valuable information in this episode, so listen closely and check the episode notes for links to everything. Thanks again to Russ for taking the time to chat. Hope you enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/russ-schnitzer/ http://schnitzerphoto.com ••• 3:55 - How Russ describes his work 5:10 - Background in photography 7:00 - Growing up in Minnesota 9:00 - Intersection of photography and conservation 11:00 - Importance of community in conservation 14:40 - Conservation in southeast Colorado 20:30 - Ecological diversity in southeast Colorado 21:30 - Importance of grazing for grassland health 27:00 - Favorite conservation books 29:00 - Importance of aggression in conservation 33:00 - Water in Colorado 38:20 - Greater Sage Grouse discussion 41:10 - Tips for those who want to get into conservation 47:30 - Career as a smokejumper and hotshot 55:00 - Hard work and teamwork in firefighting 56:40 - Enduring tragedy in firefighting 59:00 - Joining the smokejumpers 1:00:15 - Remembering life as a smokejumper 1:03:00 - Lessons learned from firefighting 1:08:00 - Importance of self awareness 1:12:00 - Connect with Russ online

Chandra Brown is an educator, writer, and river guide who has worked on the West’s most iconic rivers, including many seasons below the rim of the Grand Canyon. She’s also the founder of the Freeflow Institute, a unique Montana-based program that offers multi-day river trips for writers and creatives that combine immersion in the natural world with instruction from some of the West’s most well-known, prolific outdoor writers. By combining creativity with adventure in some of the West’s most spectacular landscapes, Freeflow helps to "eliminate the barrier between artist and environment," resulting in creative inspiration and an increased desire to preserve our wild places. • Growing up in Alaska, Chandra has always had close connections to the land and life in the outdoors. It was during a family trip to Montana during high school that she fell in love with rivers; since then, rivers have played a foundational role in both her personal and professional lives. She attended college in Bozeman, studied in Ecuador as a Fulbright Scholar, and spent extensive time on rivers in both places. Currently she burns the candle at both ends-- teaching high school Spanish during the school year and guiding rivers in the summer, all while working as a freelance writer and building the Freeflow Institute from the ground up. • Thanks to her love of books, writing, adventure, and conservation, Chandra is a perfect guest for this podcast. We cover a lot in just over an hour, including the genesis of the idea for the Freeflow Institute and how she turned that idea into reality. We discuss some of the well-known writers who teach on Freeflow trips, including Hal Herring, Chris Dombrowski, and past podcast guests Alexis Bonogofsky and Brendan Leonard. We talk about lessons learned from her time in Ecuador, her creative process for writing, and her own writing heroes and mentors. We discuss conservation, adventure, and, of course, favorite books, films, and locations in the West. • Chandra is an amazing woman who is pursuing her passions with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and she’s created something very special in the Freeflow Institute. Check out the episode notes for links to everything, including a short film that gives an excellent overview of the project. Enjoy! ••• http://mountainandprairie.com/chandra-brown/ https://freeflowinstitute.com ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 - Chandra describes her work 5:00 - Freeflow Institute explained 7:00 - Taking Freeflow from idea to reality 9:15 - Hal Herring 11:30 - Importance of open-mindedness 14:00 - Wilderness breaking down barriers 17:40 - Growing up in Alaska 19:00 - Outdoor experiences as a kid 22:00 - Falling in love with rivers 23:30 - College in Montana 26:30 - Fulbright Scholar in Ecuador 28:00 - Lessons learned from international living 35:40 - Writing as a focus of her life 38:40 - Life in Missoula and teaching 40:50 - The Grand Canyon 42:40 - Lessons from guiding 44:15 - Talent versus hard work in writing 47:30 - Chandra’s writing routine 52:00 - Heroes and mentors 57:30 - Conservation challenges 1:02:30 - Favorite books 1:05:00 - Favorite films 1:06:00 - Hobbies 1:07:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:10:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:11:15 - Best advice ever received 1:12:00 - Request of the listeners 1:13:10 - Connect with Freeflow online

Jesse Womack wears many hats, but at his core, he is a rancher. He is the fifth generation to operate his family’s ranch near Victoria, Texas, a large-scale cattle operation that uses progressive land management techniques in a very unique landscape. Jesse also works closely with Texas Christian University’s Institute of Ranch Management, traveling far and wide to teach sustainable agricultural techniques to ranchers and farmers around the world. And on top of all of that, he is also a cofounder of Explore Ranches, alongside past podcast guests Jay Klebergand Allison Ryan. • Responsible land stewardship is in Jesse’s DNA, and it is the foundation of all of his professional ventures. And as you’ll hear, he’s an open-minded, independent, and critical thinker who is able to speak eloquently on a wide array of sometimes-controversial issues surrounding agriculture. When you combine those traits with his rock-solid work ethic and focus, you will understand why he has been able to establish himself as such a leader in agriculture, both in Texas and abroad. Whether you're deeply involved in agriculture or you’ve never set foot on a ranch, you’ll glean a great deal of value from Jesse’s perspective—his knowledge, passion, and worldly perspective are applicable for any type of endeavor. • Jesse and I went to high school together, and even after knowing him for more than 25 years, I still learned a lot from this conversation. We talk about his work with TCU, and he shares some success stories from his time teaching in Panama, Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil. He explains the importance of community buy-in and how focusing on commonalities and shared goals can help overcome cultural divides. We talk about his family’s history in Texas, and how he is raising his two sons to love and respect the outdoors. Jesse give a few updates on Explore Ranches, and talks about some exciting events they will be hosting soon. We also chat about his involvement with the Texas Agricultural Land Trust, and how conservation easements can be a useful tool for ranchers in Texas and beyond. And as usual, we discuss favorite books and movies, and Jesse shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received, which I especially appreciated. • Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jesse Womack! ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/jesse-womack/ https://www.exploreranches.com ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED 3:30 - Funny story about Jesse’s son 5:00 - How Jesse describes his work 6:30 - TCU Institute of Ranch Management explained 8:30 - Experience in Brazil 10:00 - Countries where Jesse works 12:45 - Adjusting to different landscapes and cultures 14:00 - Success stories from TCU 17:45 - Importance of community buy-in 20:15 - Challenges of ranching in Brazil 23:30 - Misconceptions of ranching by environmentalists 30:30 - The need to be open-minded and consider other viewpoints 34:30 - Climate change and ranching 38:00 - Jesse’s family history in Texas 41:30 - Jesse’s family’s commitment to conservation 44:30 - Pressure of multigenerational ranch ownership 46:00 - Jesse’s career 47:30 - Surprises of running a ranch 49:00 - Texas Agricultural Land Trust 42:30 - Easements as a tool for agricultural 55:30 - Updates on Explore Ranches 57:30 - Mentors and heroes in ranching 59:30 - Our shared experience at Woodberry Forest School 52:00 - Lessons learned at Woodberry 1:05:30 - Favorite books 1:08:15 - Favorite films 1:08:45 - Hobbies 1:09:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:14:15 - Favorite location in the West 1:14:45 - Best advice ever recieved 1:16:45 - Connect with Jesse online

Melissa DiNino is a biologist, artist, and designer who currently lives and works in Montana’s legendary Tom Miner Basin. A native easterner, Melissa moved West soon after college to work as a range rider-- a job that involves monitoring livestock on horseback in an effort to encourage the successful coexistence of livestock and apex predators in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. In her role as a range rider, Melissa developed a deep appreciation for Montana’s spectacular landscapes, the challenging relationship between people and predators, and the importance of compassionate communication between all stakeholders. • Melissa grew up in Connecticut, and developed an early love of adventure and the outdoors while spending time at her family’s cabin in Maine. She’s also a committed athlete and played competitive basketball from age five through college. As you’ll hear, Melissa is humble and soft spoken, but she has a track record of pushing herself hard, both in academics and athletics, as well as in her present-day professional work and art. Although only in her mid-20s, Melissa is wise beyond her years and is committed to doing meaningful work in a place that she loves, surrounded by a supportive community… and she’s making it happen in an inspiring way. • I know regular listeners will really enjoy this conversation, but it will be especially valuable to anyone who is in the early stages of their career, looking to do work that is meaningful and fulfilling. Melissa and I discuss her path to Montana, as well as some of the challenges and funny mishaps of adjusting to life in the West. We talk about the realities of piecing together a variety of different jobs and artistic endeavors, while remaining focused on the big picture of doing work that matters. We chat about lessons learned from athletics, the value of being competitive with oneself, and importance of being willing to “put yourself out there” in creative pursuits. We also dig into some details around wolves, grizzlies, and the importance of civil discourse when discussing emotional subjects like wolves. And as usual, we talk about favorite books, films, and places in the West. Links to everything are in the episode notes. •Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Melissa DiNino! ••• Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/melissa-dinino/ https://www.melissadinino.com ••• 3:30 - How Melissa describes her work 4:50 - Range riding explained 9:30 - Balancing grazing and predators 11:15 - The human element of range riding 13:00 - How Melissa started range riding 14:45 - Transition to Montana 16:15 - Embarrassing Montana story 19:45 - Growing up in Connecticut 20:30 - Adventures in Maine 21:30 - Parents’ influence 24:10 - Basketball 25:55 - Competition and lessons learned from sports 29:00 - Why she chose to study wolves 32:25 - Tips for having tough conversations 36:00 - Stories of collaboration 37:30 - Crazy stories from range riding 38:45 - Books about wolves 42:00 - Background in design 43:15 - Art and watercolors 46:10 - Artistic mentors 48:00 - Future plans 50:00 - Mentors 51:20 - Favorite books 53:00 - Favorite films 54:00 - Weird hobbies 55:20 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:01:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:02:00 - Request of the listeners 1:02:50 - Connect with Melissa online

Allison Ryan is a West Texas native and co-founder of Explore Ranches, a company that connects its customers with spectacular private ranches throughout Texas and Colorado—some have described it as “AirBnB for ranches." For those seeking a truly unique outdoor experience, Explore Ranches offers access to private land that has rarely, if ever, been visited by the public. And for the ranch owner, Explore Ranches creates an additional revenue stream to support the costs of land ownership, encourage conservation, and reduce the likelihood of subdividing large ranches due to financial strain. Given the lack of public land in Texas and the financial realities of owning large ranches, Explore Ranches offers a welcome solution for both landowners and adventure-loving non-landowners. • Allison grew up in El Paso, Texas, in a conservation-minded family that valued time in the outdoors and understood the importance of land stewardship. Between her childhood experiences at summer camp in West Texas, time spent on her family’s ranch, and a love of fitness and wellness, Allison has a deep understanding of the many benefits of recreating in open spaces. But Allison is also familiar with the financial commitments of land ownership, and she understands first hand the need to identify new revenue streams in order to make ranch ownership financially viable. In fact, her family’s ranch, known as the Withers, is available on Explore Ranches-- it serves as an excellent case study that demonstrates the need that Explore Ranches fulfills for landowners. • If you listened to my recent interview with Allison’s co-founder Jay Kleberg, you may remember that we briefly discussed Explore Ranches. But in this conversation with Allison, we dig into the nitty-gritty details of the business—how the idea came about, descriptions of some of the available properties, and the challenges and opportunities arising from the small amount of private land in Texas. We discuss how Explore Ranches can be a useful tool for landowners, and why her family’s ranch was a prime candidate to partner with Explore Ranches. We talk about her childhood in West Texas, conservation lessons learned from her parents and grandparents, and some of her formative experiences in the outdoors. Allison also dives into her other career in the fitness world, and I veer the conversation completely off track by asking way too many questions about diet, exercise, and fasting—if you like any of my interviews with professional athletes, you’ll probably enjoy that part. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and her most powerful outdoor experience. • Take a moment to visit Explore Ranches—there are links in the episode notes. And please enjoy this fun conversation with Allison Ryan. ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/allison-ryan/ https://www.exploreranches.com/ http://mountainandprairie.com/reading ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:30- How Allison describes her work 5:50 - Overview of Explore Ranches 7:25 - Origin of the Explore Ranches idea 11:30 - Public vs private land in Texas 14:50 - Allison’s family ranch 19:30 - History of land stewardship in Allison’s family 20:45 - Childhood experiences in the outdoors 21:45 - Other ranches in the Explore Ranches portfolio 24:30 - Working with landowners 27:15 - Explore Ranches as a landowner tool 28:30 - Competitors? 30:00 - Criteria for ranches 31:30 - Biggest surprises in starting the business 33:50 - Future plans for Explore Ranches 36:00 - Growing up in El Paso 37:45 - School and early career 40:00 - Personal training 41:00 - Diet versus exercise 46:30 - Best single exercise 47:30 - Fasting 50:15 - Thoughts on social media 54:30 - Favorite books 57:15 - Favorite films 58:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:00:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:01:00 - Request of the listeners 1:02:45 - Connect with Allison

Jay Kleberg is a conservationist and the Associate Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. He’s also the co-founder of Explore Ranches, a new company that connects outdoor enthusiasts to some of the most iconic private ranches in Texas and beyond. Jay has built his career and life around a deep respect for land and an inborn sense of responsibility to protect these landscapes, as well as the wildlife and heritage they support. As a sixth-generation Texan landowner, responsible land stewardship is in Jay’s blood, and as you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s laser-focused on leaving Texas an even better place than he found it. • Growing up on his family’s large-scale South Texas working ranch, Jay has been closely connected to the land for as long as he can remember. After high school and college on the east coast, Jay headed to Brazil for several years, where he worked with renowned conservationist John Cain Carter to protect the region’s threatened landscapes. It was in Brazil that Jay began to hone his personal conservation philosophy and had a number of crazy adventures along the way. After working a stint in for-profit real estate and earning his MBA, Jay decided to focus all of his professional energy on conservation in his home state. • Jay and I have been friends for over 25 years, so it was a real treat to connect with him on the podcast to discuss our shared passions for land conservation and adventure... we normally just re-tell hilarious stories from high school! As usual, we cover a lot-- we discuss his upbringing on his family ranch and lessons learned from both his family and the larger ranch community. We talk about his time in Brazil, conservation challenges in South America, and one close call in a small airplane that could’ve been the end of Jay. We discuss Explore Ranches, his work with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, his role in the upcoming film “The River and the Wall,” and other adventures throughout the West. We also discuss the importance of humility and honesty, benefits of having a for-profit mentality in the nonprofit world, favorite books, films, and more. • Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything… there’s a ton of great information here. I know you’ll enjoy this fun conversation with Jay Kleberg. ••• mountainandprairie.com/jay-kleberg/ www.exploreranches.com ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - How Jay describes his work 5:15 - Explore Ranches explained 8:45 - Importance of access to the outdoors 11:15 - More about Explore Ranches and the team 17:00 - Lessons learned from growing up on a ranch 21:30 - Conservation influences in Brazil 26:00 - Culture shock and lawlessness in Brazil 30:30 - An almost-airplane crash in the Amazon 37:45 - Moving to El Paso, TX 44:00 - Decision to pursue his MBA 47:30 - Business skills for land conservation 49:00 - Beginning work with the TX Parks and Wildlife Foundation 51:30 - Biggest conservation challenge facing Texas 56:40 - Experience at Woodberry Forest School 1:02:30 - River and the Wall teaser 1:07:10 - The source Jay’s humility 1:11:30 - Importance of “getting after it” 1:14:00 - Favorite books 1:15:45 - Favorite films 1:17:45 - Surprising hobbies i.e. wigs 1:19:40 - Favorite location in the West 1:21:30 - Request of the listeners 1:24:00 - Connect with Jay online

Jay Kleberg is a conservationist and the Associate Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. He’s also the co-founder of Explore Ranches, a new company that connects outdoor enthusiasts to some of the most iconic private ranches in Texas and beyond. Jay has built his career and life around a deep respect for land and an inborn sense of responsibility to protect these landscapes, as well as the wildlife and heritage they support. As a sixth-generation Texan landowner, responsible land stewardship is in Jay’s blood, and as you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s laser-focused on leaving Texas an even better place than he found it. • Growing up on his family’s large-scale South Texas working ranch, Jay has been closely connected to the land for as long as he can remember. After high school and college on the east coast, Jay headed to Brazil for several years, where he worked with renowned conservationist John Cain Carter to protect the region’s threatened landscapes. It was in Brazil that Jay began to hone his personal conservation philosophy and had a number of crazy adventures along the way. After working a stint in for-profit real estate and earning his MBA, Jay decided to focus all of his professional energy on conservation in his home state. • Jay and I have been friends for over 25 years, so it was a real treat to connect with him on the podcast to discuss our shared passions for land conservation and adventure... we normally just re-tell hilarious stories from high school! As usual, we cover a lot-- we discuss his upbringing on his family ranch and lessons learned from both his family and the larger ranch community. We talk about his time in Brazil, conservation challenges in South America, and one close call in a small airplane that could’ve been the end of Jay. We discuss Explore Ranches, his work with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, his role in the upcoming film “The River and the Wall,” and other adventures throughout the West. We also discuss the importance of humility and honesty, benefits of having a for-profit mentality in the nonprofit world, favorite books, films, and more. • Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything… there’s a ton of great information here. I know you’ll enjoy this fun conversation with Jay Kleberg. ••• https://www.exploreranches.com ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - How Jay describes his work 5:15 - Explore Ranches explained 8:45 - Importance of access to the outdoors 11:15 - More about Explore Ranches and the team 17:00 - Lessons learned from growing up on a ranch 21:30 - Conservation influences in Brazil 26:00 - Culture shock and lawlessness in Brazil 30:30 - An almost-airplane crash in the Amazon 37:45 - Moving to El Paso, TX 44:00 - Decision to pursue his MBA 47:30 - Business skills for land conservation 49:00 - Beginning work with the TX Parks and Wildlife Foundation 51:30 - Biggest conservation challenge facing Texas 56:40 - Experience at Woodberry Forest School 1:02:30 - River and the Wall teaser 1:07:10 - The source Jay’s humility 1:11:30 - Importance of “getting after it” 1:14:00 - Favorite books 1:15:45 - Favorite films 1:17:45 - Surprising hobbies i.e. wigs 1:19:40 - Favorite location in the West 1:21:30 - Request of the listeners 1:24:00 - Connect with Jay online

Daniel Anderson is a Montana native and founder of the Common Ground Project, a nature-based retreat, hiking, and camping experience in which small groups of people from around the world share adventure, education, and conversation. Located on Daniel’s family ranch in the heart of Montana’s renowned Tom Miner Basin, the Common Ground Project seeks to strengthen connections between people, wildlife, and the stunning landscapes of the American West. As you’ll hear, Daniel and his family’s multi-generational commitment to community and holistic land stewardship make them the perfect people to pass along the wisdom they’ve gained from the land and from life in the Rockies. • To call Daniel’s personal story “fascinating" would be quite an understatement. Born in Missoula and raised in the Tom Miner Basin, Daniel attended boarding school on the east coast and graduated from college with a degree in engineering. But soon after beginning his professional career in California, doctors discovered two fist-sized, cancerous tumors in his body, one attached to his kidney and the other to his aorta. The cancer diagnosis, subsequent treatment, and return to health sharpened Daniel’s focus on the importance of helping and connecting with others, and also led him on a ten-year journey of rigorous personal spiritual work. The cumulative result of all of these intense life experiences was the creation of the Common Ground Project. • So, as you’ve probably gathered, Daniel is an interesting dude. We only covered a fraction of what I’d hoped to discuss, but I know you’ll enjoy the conversation. We discussed the Common Ground Project, the genesis of the idea, and the moment he decided to make the plan a reality. We also talked about lessons learned from his cancer experience and wisdom gleaned from his tight-knit family, including his grandfather who purchased their ranch in the 1950s after being a POW during World War II. We chatted about his family’s long-standing commitment to collaborative land stewardship in the Tom Miner Basin, and the challenges and opportunities of land ownership in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Finally, we discussed influential books, his most powerful outdoor experience, and the insights Daniel has gained from a decade of rigorous spiritual inquiry... with mentors that even include a Peruvian shaman. • I encourage you to check out the Common Ground Project online and if the mission speaks to you, consider donating to their Indiegogo campaign. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Daniel Anderson. ••• https://www.thecommongroundproject.us https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-common-ground-project--2#/ Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/daniel-anderson/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:15 - How Daniel describes his work 4:50 - Tom Miner Basin explained 8:30 - Challenges and opportunities of land ownership in Tom Miner Basin 11:40 - Keys to successful landowner collaboration 14:05 - Complexity of collaborative landownership 19:35 - Daniel’s family history 23:00 - Boarding school 27:00 - The Common Ground Project explained 30:00 - Moment that Daniel decided to make TCGP a reality 34:30 - Idea of long term land stewardship 38:30 - Books and resources about land stewardship 42:00 - Leadership of TCGP 48:00 - Crowdfunding for TCGP 51:30 - Daniel’s cancer experience 57:00 - How cancer changed Daniel’s perspective 1:04:40 - Mentors 1:08:00 - Spiritual journey 1:12:00 - Favorite books about the West 1:13:00 - Favorite films 1:15:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:21:30 - Request of the listeners 1:26:30 - Connect with Daniel and TCGP online

Alexis Bonogofsky is a rancher, conservationist, and community organizer who is fiercely committed to protecting the landscapes and communities of eastern Montana. While much of Alexis’s career has been devoted to environmental issues in the West, the 2011 Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone River brought the fight to her doorstep—her family’s pastures were inundated with oil, threatening not only the local ecosystem, but the livelihoods of her family and community. Since that spill and the ensuing battle with Exxon, Alexis has become an outspoken advocate for ranchers, farmers, and rural Montana stakeholders. Through her writing, photography, and old-fashioned relationship-building, Alexis has become an invaluable force in bringing people together even in today’s divisive political climate. • Alexis grew up in eastern Montana as part of a tight-knit, hardworking, blue-collar family. Her parents engrained in her a rock-solid work ethic, a deep sense of responsibility, and a refusal to back down from bullies-- characteristics that have served her well in her life and career. Alexis studied international development in undergrad and grad school, but decided that rather than taking her expertise to another country, she could apply those invaluable skills to her home of eastern Montana. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Alexis is humble and open-minded, but completely unwavering when it comes to standing up against individuals or companies that seek to take advantage of the less powerful. • I can’t overstate how much I enjoyed this conversation. Alexis is a shining example of the impact that one person can have if she’s willing to work hard, be humble, play the long game, and have the bravery to put herself out there. We cover a lot, including the Exxon oil spill and how it affected her life, work, and sense of responsibility. We talk about her time working with Native Americans as part of the Tribal Lands Partnership, and some of the wisdom gained from that job. She discusses the lessons learned from her parents and shares some thoughts on her father’s tragic death several years ago. We also delve into her writing process, hunting, public lands, goats, llamas, and our mutual contempt for bullies. And Alexis also offers a ton of book recommendations that have never been mentioned on the podcast before. • This is a seriously inspiring episode, so I’m very excited for you to listen. Be sure to check out Alexis’s blog “East of Billings” and follow her on social media. I have links to everything in the episode notes. Enjoy! ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/alexis/ East of Billings: http://www.eastofbillings.com ••• TOIPICS DISCUSSED: 4:10 - How Alexis describes her work 5:25 - Eastern Montana described 7:30 - Exxon oil spill on Alexis’s farm 11:00 - Dealing with Exxon 17:00 - The origins of Alexis’s leadership abilities 20:35 - Role models 23:20 - Misunderstandings around “environmentalists” 26:10 - Education and early work 28:40 - Lessons learned from working with Native American tribes 31:00 - Technique for finding common ground among opposing groups 34:30 - Political aspirations? 35:15 - Resources that have shaped Alexis’s thoughts on organizing 38:35 - Writing and photography 42:00 - Bravery required for writing 43:30 - Alexis’s father’s tragic death 46:45 - Distaste for bullies 49:30 - Public Lands 52:45 - Artemis Sportswomen 55:00 - Goats! 58:10 - Favorite books 1:00:35 - Favorite films 1:01:30 - Other activities 1:02:35 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:04:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:05:00 - Best advice 1:06:30 - Request of listeners 1:07:40 - Connect with Alexis

Sara Dant is a historian, professor, and chair of the history department at Weber State University. She’s also the author of one of my new favorite books: Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. Sara’s work touches many of the topics we discuss regularly on this podcast, including conservation, water, public lands, building consensus around divisive issues, historical figures of the West, and much more. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Sara has a unique ability to explain complex and potentially dry topics regarding the American West in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner. • Whether you’re like me and have read dozens of books on the history of the West or simply have a general interest the subject, I think Losing Eden should be mandatory reading. It lays out the history of the region, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ends in the present-day West with our scramble to find solutions to natural resource shortages and climate change. For me, the book connected many different time periods and concepts into one cohesive narrative, while simultaneously introducing me to new ideas and people, all in just under 200 pages. • Sara and I had a great conversation covering key concepts from her book, as well as her life as a historian, teacher, and life-long Westerner. We chat about the concept of the "tragedy of the commons,” conservation versus preservation, and the myth that the West was a sort of Garden of Eden prior to European settlement. We also dig into some of the key historical figures of the West, including Brigham Young, John Wesley Powell, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Muir. Most of you know that I’m weirdly obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt—I’ve got a life-sized cardboard cut-out of him in my office, for Pete’s sake—so Sara gently offers a more “balanced" examination of his conservation legacy. We also discuss Sara’s upbringing in Arizona, love of trail running, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, because there’s a lot. • And since many of you are members of the Mountain & Prairie Book Club, I wanted to let you know that Losing Eden will be the November/December selection. Sara has graciously offered to answer questions about the book or even participate in some sort of online discussion, so I’ll be sorting out those details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, start reading the book and visit the book club webpage for more information as it becomes available. But for now, please enjoy this fun and educational conversation with Sara Dant. ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/sara-dant/ Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West: http://a.co/d/8rCRHS8 Book Club: http://mountainandprairie.com/book-club/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:55 - How Sara describes her work 4:45 - Where Sara grew up 6:15 - Background on the book 7:30 - The myth of the West as “Eden” 9:40 - The tragedy of the commons explained 13:10 - The Morman’s settlement of the West 17:00 - John Wesley Powell explained 22:00 - Ambition and the settlement of the West 23:00 - The significance of the 1890s 27:55 - Conservation versus preservation 34:00 - A more balanced view of Theodore Roosevelt 40:00 - Growing up in Arizona 41:25 - Early influences 44:15 - The book that most influenced Sara’s career 46:20 - Pursuing her Phd and the choice to teach 49:00 - Sara’s optimism about current college students 52:45 - Trail running 54:25 - Working at Grand Teton and Denali National Parks 56:30 - Public lands 1:01:30 - Favorite books 1:03:00 - Favorite films 1:05:00 - Hobbies 1:05:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:07:25 - Favorite location in the West 1:08:00 - Best thing Sara ever learned 1:09:00 - Sara’s words of wisdom 1:10:15 - Connect with Sara online

Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, "On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle." • As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside" magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more. • Finally, we spend some time talking about "On Desperate Ground," which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a war history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle. • Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot. This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it. ••• Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton-2/ “On Desperate Ground” by Hampton Sides: http://a.co/d/aZBZFiO First Episode with Hampton: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/ Support the Podcast: http://mountainandprairie.com/support/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:20 - How Hampton describes his work 7:15 - Hampton’s early years 11:00 - College and history training 13:40 - Importance of discipline in writing 17:00 - The "Pain Cave” 19:00 - Publising his first book 20:20 - First job out of college 22:00 - Working at Outside 24:45 - Learning the art of structure 28:30 - Importance of characters in history 31:40 - General MacArthur 36:00 - The cold as a character in the book 40:45 - US Marines’ retreat from the reservoir 41:50 - Chairman Mao 42:40 - Lessons learned from veterans 47:40 - Favorite books 48:45 - Favorite documentaries 49:40 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors 51:40 - Best advice ever received 52:45 - Connect with Hampton online