With Friends Like These

This week, WFLT’s favorite Never Trumper joined the show for his first check in since February. Over the course of a wide-ranging conversation, he and Ana dove into the way that attitudes regarding the FBI and the rule of law have undergone a remarkable transformation in the age of Trump. They also talked about how Democrats should run on accountability rather than impeachment in 2018, North Korea, and *that* Rudy Giuliani interview. After that, Ira Madison III, host of Crooked Media’s Keep It!, joined the show to answer a listener question about how to -- or how not to -- have a conversation with a racist who doesn’t want to admit it. Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com or on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Start your free month of unlimited access to more than 10,000 fascinating lectures at thegreatcoursesplus.com/friends. Get your first refill pack free at getquip.com/friends. Receive $20 off your purchase at theblacktux.com/friends. Try a free trial at squarespace.com/friends and use the offer code convos to save 10% off your first website or domain name. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Alex Wagner, co-host of Showtime’s The Circus, contributing editor at The Atlantic, a CBS News contributor and the author of the new book Futureface: A family mystery, an Epic Quest, and the Secret to Belonging, sat down with Ana. They discussed her family history and how the writing process facilitated her own search for belonging. They also addressed the white privilege inherent in DNA testing, and the what it means for Alex to replace Mark Halperin on The Circus during this unique political moment. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Check out our sponsors! Get a free sample box at kindsnacks.com/friends. You can try a 7-day free trial at texture.com/friends. For up to $55 in free postage, a four-week trial and a digital scale, visit stamps.com, click on the radio microphone at the top and enter FRIENDS. Go to thirdlove.com/friends for 15% off your first purchase! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Humanist chaplain and community activist Chris Stedman joined Ana to discuss the unique relationship between movement atheism and the Alt-Right. Chris wrote a piece on the trend from prominent atheists like Bill Maher, Sam Harris, and Richard Dawkins to promote some liberal social policies while putting forth critiques of social justice policies that amount to an “alt-light.” Ana and Chris delve deep into the atheist movement, investigating why and how atheists have found common ground with Christian white nationalism in the broader Trump coalition. Historian Diana Butler Bass joins Chris and Ana to answer a listener question about finding forgiveness for Christians in the age of the Trump, as well as for a discussion about the many roads that compassion and forgiveness can lead down. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jx8/too-many-atheists-are-veering-dangerously-toward-the-alt-right Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com, and @crooked_friends on Twitter. Check out our sponsors! Go to sunbasket.com/friends for $35 off your first order. Get free shipping on your first order at everlane.com/friends.  You’ll get 25% off your first box when you keep all five items in your box at stitchfix.com/friends. Visit thrivemarket.com/friends for 25% off your first order plus a 30-day free trial.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, writer, journalist, and disability rights activist Keah Brown joins Ana for a difficult conversation about disability, ableism, and body positivity. Their wide-ranging conversation begins with Keah detailing how she’s worked to find self love and body positivity and a discussion on the lack of representation disabled people face in movies and popular culture writ large. They then turn to Keah’s desire not to be pigeonholed as a writer, and the pro’s and con’s of using Twitter to connect with other people. The conversation ends on an important note, when Ana apologizes for using ableist language, and the importance of looking at disability as something that is not static, but that comes in a variety of forms, as well as the need for privileged people to leave their comfort zones and be willing to make mistakes to expand their own horizons. Then, Crooked Contributor Erin Ryan stops by to answer a listener question about navigating romantic relationships across a political divide. Ana and Erin come to the consensus that debating from similar source material, and talking to rather than past each other is essential. Sometimes to hear someone, you have to accept that you might not convince them you’re right. Ana referenced several pieces Keah has written on the pod, which you can find below. On the erasure of Stephen Hawking’s disability On the importance of filters, and lipstick On the lack of representation of disabled people Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com and on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Get your body moving in your workspace at fully.com/friends. Check out squarespace.com/friends for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain name with the offer code “friends.” Turn your Pinterest board into reality with 25% off your design package at havenly.com/friends. Go to getquip.com/friends to get your first refill pack free with a Quip electric toothbrush. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ana’s journey at CPAC continues this week. Despite the conference’s overt racism and embrace of President Trump, she found young people who don’t like where their party is going. They want to see it go in a different, more principled direction, holding elected officials accountable for their treatment of women and the need to respect LGBTQ+ rights. But are there enough of them to matter? Find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends, and get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Check out our sponsors! Access thousands of 30-minute lectures with a free month of unlimited access to The Great Courses at TheGreatCoursePlus.com/Friends. Visit TheBlackTux.com/Friends for $20 off your first purchase. Go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the page and enter FRIENDS for a four-week trial, a free digital scale and up to $55 in free postage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the Season 2 premiere, Ana traveled to CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, to try and see the world through someone the eyes of conservative activists. Ana has attended CPAC for many years, but this time discovered a different conference -- rather than idealistic conservatism, she encountered overt, explicit racism. Over the course of the conference, she talked to attendees of different backgrounds, ages, ethnicities and genders, only to find nativism and racism time and again. The Washington Post’s Dave Weigel joins the pod to discuss their past experiences at CPAC. He and Ana dive into how attitudes towards President Trump have rapidly evolved over the last few years, and how that has changed priorities within the conservative movement. Check out our sponsors! Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page and enter “FRIENDS” to get a four-week trial and free digital scale. Visit parachutehome.com/friends for free shipping and returns on Parachute’s bedding and bath linens. Get your first refill pack for free with a QUIP electric toothbrush at getquip.com/friends. Save time and money when you travel by going to tripping.com/friends. Receive 15% off your first purchase when you go to thirdlove.com/friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the Season 1 finale, reformed extremist Christian Picciolini [4:02] joins Ana to talk about his experience as a white supremacist, how his mind changed, and the work he does today to show people that there is life after hate. They discuss the rise and shifts in white supremacy within the United States and the way that white supremacists have softened their image by using coded language and racial dog whistles. The conversation turns to the ways in which white supremacy is like an addiction, and the possibilities of treating them both through recovery, kindness, and empathy. He also shares his own perspective on how to confront white supremacy: not with violence, but by helping people identify and fill in the holes in their lives, and showing how they can change. Later on, Ana and Christian touch on one of the most important things to keep in mind when dealing with not just white supremacy but ordinary interactions with people in everyday life: everybody is going through something we can’t see. The conversation ends with what makes Christian worried, and hopeful, about the society we now live in. Afterward, [58:43] Ana revisits last week’s episode about Black Panther, acknowledging the ways her own whiteness makes it impossible to fully grasp Wakanda’s decision to not take back Killmonger. Thank you to everyone that has been a part of this podcast in some way for making it a wonderful first season. We’ll be back soon. You can find Christian’s book here: https://www.christianpicciolini.com/book Here’s the Kevin Love piece Ana referenced in the show: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/kevin-love-everyone-is-going-through-something/ Send us an email at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com and find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Get 15% off your first purchase from Third Love at Thirdlove.com/friends. Try a 10 Kind Bar Sample Box for free if you pay for shipping and join Kind’s Snack Club at Kindsnacks.com/friends. Visit Parachutehome.com/friends for free shipping and returns. If you don’t love it, send it back, and Parachute will donate your used items to Habitat for Humanity. Post jobs on Ziprecruiter for free at Ziprecruiter.com/friends to find the perfect candidate for whatever you are looking for. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith) joins Ana to talk about what makes Black Panther different from other Marvel movies and so important. They discuss the power of the movie’s metaphors to talk about colonization and the black experience in America as well as how this movie can prompt white people to think differently about white supremacy. Ana and Jamil also consider the active decision by the movie’s creators to make a movie for black audiences, and what that choice could mean for the future of movies and TV.  Jamil wrote the Time cover story on Black Panther, which you can find here. There is a lengthy digression about "Atlanta" and the Donald Glover profile in the New Yorker, and whether superhero movies always fight the last war while comedy confronts the future. Get in touch with the show on Twitter at @crooked_friends or email us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com.  Check out our sponsors! Pop your political bubble with new Spotify Spotlight podcast Keep It, from friend of the pod Ira Madison III. Go to getquip.com/friends to get your first refill pack for free with a Quip electric toothbrush. Visit theblacktux.com/friends for $20 off your purchase of a stylish suit or tuxedo. Start your four-week trial of Stamps.com with postage and a free digital scale by visiting Stamps.com, clicking on the microphone at the top of the page, and typing in Friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week’s pod, The Atlantic’s McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) joins Ana to talk about Mitt Romney’s return to politics and what it was like covering Romney’s Presidential run as the other Mormon on the bus. From there, the conversation turns to Mormon conservatism and its unique attitude towards Donald Trump, the history of the LDS Church, and Ana and McKay’s respective relationships with faith. They also talk a lot about prayer, which they both love and both feel a little weird talking about in public. You can find McKay’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Republican-Combative-Contentious-Chaotic/dp/0316327417 Send us an email at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com and find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Get ready for Season Two of CBS’ “The Good Fight” with a free trial of CBS All Access at cbs.com/friends. Find clothes you’ll actually love with Stitch Fix, your Online Personal Stylist. Get started at stichfix.com/friends for 25% off the first time you keep all five items in your box.  Visit tripping.com/friends today to save time and money as you plan your next trip with a great vacation rental.  Try a free 10-snack variety pack when you sign up for Kind’s Snack Club and pay for shipping at kindsnacks.com/friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ana talks with Linda Tirado (@KillerMartinis), [2:00] activist and author of Hand to Mouth: Living in Bootstrap America, about the Trump Administration’s awesome idea to turn the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program into a shitty version of Blue Apron. The conversation also turns to the hypocrisy of policymakers on both sides of the aisle when it comes to poverty, and how no onein power actually wants to listen to poor people. Vox’s Senior Politics Reporter Jane Coaston (@cjane87) joins Ana [33:22] to discuss what the Rob Porter scandal tells us about the Trump Administration that we didn’t already know, the problems with White House security background checks, and to answer a listener question. Ana also reflects on her own journey with mental illness [54:22] in the wake of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, and how imperative it is mentally ill people aren’t stigmatized after a mass shooting. You can find Linda’s book here:https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Mouth-Living-Bootstrap-America/dp/0425277976 Jane’s story with the latest on Rob Porter:https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/13/17007892/rob-porter-white-house-story-what-we-know If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, abuse, or harassment, know you are not alone. For help, callRAINN at (800) 656-HOPE or you can chat with someone at their online hotline: https://hotline.rainn.org/online/terms-of-service.jsp. If you or someone you know is having mental health issues or thinking of self-harm and needs help, know that you are not the problem, you are never alone, and you are loved. To get help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255or text them at 1-800-799-4889. Send us an email at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com and find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends Check out our sponsors! Jergens: This episode is brought to you by Jergens Wet SkinMoisturizer. Jergens. Let Your Beautiful Shine. Third Love: Get 15% off your first purchase atThirdLove.com/Friends Parachute: Visit ParachuteHome.com/friends for free shipping and returns on bedding and bath linens Stamps.com: Go to Stamps.com and enter FRIENDS for a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rebecca Carroll (@rebel19) fills in for Ana this week to discuss interracial relationships — and Black Panther —  in the Trump era. Rebecca, whose husband is white, is joined by writer/professor Melissa Febos (@melissafebos) [7:42] and writer/performer Quinta Brunson (@quintabrunson) [47:14] to talk about how everyone’s doing in their own interracial relationships these days, in this very particular moment we’re having in America. Send emails to the podcast at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. We are also on Twitter: @crooked_friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s that time again: Ana’s monthly check-in with WFLT’s favorite Never Trumper Rick Wilson (@RickWilson). [2:58] Find out what three-years-ago Rick would have been most surprised by about Trump’s first year, plus hear his thoughts on the future of a Republican Party he says is paralyzed by fear of a mean tweet. Also, we get some insight into what Rick’s been telling Republican elected officials when they call him up for advice. Send emails to the podcast at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. We are also on Twitter: @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Mack Weldon: Go to MackWeldon.com and get 20% off using promo code Friends Tripping: Go to Tripping.com/FRIENDS to save on booking your next vacation Black Tux: Visit TheBlackTux.com/FRIENDS for $20 off your purchase Stamps.com: Get a four-week trial plus postage by visiting stamps.com with promo code Friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

BuzzFeed News tech reporter Katie Notopoulos (@katienotopoulos) drops by [3:46] to tell Ana what she learned from watching YouTube star Jake Paul’s educational video series on social influencing, which apparently involves a lot of trickery and grifting. Sound familiar? Then, [28:35] Jemar Tisby (@JemarTisby) of the The Witness joins Ana to discuss the hypocrisy of white Evangelicals who support Donald Trump, which leads to a broader discussion about racism and white supremacy in America. Ana refers to a piece Jemar wrote responding to comments made by Rod Dreher, which can be read here: https://thewitnessbcc.com/shtholes-section-8-response-rod-dreher/ Jemar also has a podcast called Pass The Mic. Read Katie’s piece on Jake Paul here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/i-took-jake-pauls-educational-series?utm_term=.fj84YOaN7#.wdzQ0286j Send us an email to withfriendslikepod@gmail.com Find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Third Love: Get 15% off your first order at ThirdLove.com/Friends Parachute: Visit ParachuteHome.com/friends for free shipping and returns. Kind: Get your free sample box at KindSnacks.com/friends Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Ijeoma Oluo (@IjeomaOluo) stops by to discuss her new book “So You Want To Talk about Race,” which as Ana points out, is an especially essential read for white people to check out. Using her tips, Ijeoma helps Ana workshop a particular conversation Ana’s been trying to have with a person in her own life. Then, Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) helps answer a listener question about what we can be hopeful about as we head into 2018. Send us an email to withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Mack Weldon: visit MackWeldon.com to get 20% off with promo code FRIENDS. ZipRecruiter: Post jobs for free at  ZipRecruiter.com/friends The Great Courses Plus: Sign up for your free month by visiting thegreatcoursesplus.com/Friends. Stamps.com: Get a four-week trial plus postage by visiting stamps.com with promo code Friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

James Risen, senior national security correspondent for The Intercept, joins Ana [01:14] to discuss the rocky relationship between journalists and the government, reminding us that Trump’s threats to press freedom are not unprecedented — and Risen would know, since both the Bush and Obama administrations took him to court over his reporting. He wrote about the experience, in a must-read piece, here: https://url.emailprotection.link/?a_64gq3nIS1JTwoUCTzOU0BEMTal24kTbYv7SAHyApgJQTz-aCpiV2hC7thv5GP8w02qq0C-KqxmYADRSi1AbGq7pH-WmboNGJquZv8onY911DoZFz7SDZ2btaA_DPEZ5rnHm7ZagZ2YiROhPXq0k6Z6_X0goiPm1nsOEo3icOF4~ Then, Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith) drops by [51:15] to make a case for why the term “guys” is problematic as a default when addressing each other. Ana and Jamil conclude it really, truly doesn’t take much to consider someone else’s perspective in every day interactions. We read all your emails and questions. Please send them to withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Find us on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Thanks to our sponsors! Squarespace: Visit Squarespace.com offer code FRIENDS for 10 percent off your first purchase of a website or domain.  The Great Courses Plus: Sign up for your free month by visiting thegreatcoursesplus.com/Friends. Stitch Fix: Go to Stitchfix.com/Friends for 25 percent off when you keep five items. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices