Unveiling Grace Podcast

At age 7, Richard went to his first movie in a theatre, the 1920s art deco Granada Theatre in Mt. Vernon, IL. He immediately knew he wanted to be involved with filmmaking. After high school, he attended one year at Brigham Young University. During a Star Wars movie, seeing the battle between good and evil, Richard chose to serve an LDS mission and delay his film career. He went to Mexico where he was thrown in jail for proselytizing. At the end of his LDS mission, his mission president advised him to go home and “build your own kingdom.” In an effort to begin his own kingdom, Richard married an LDS wife headed to Hollywood where he decided to create independent films. His first film caused him to re-evaluated his life and re-dedicate himself to his LDS faith. Grilling burgers for his family, he suddenly got the idea to blend his independent filmmaking with his Mormon religion. As he became the father of Mormon cinema, God worked on his heart.

A devout member of the LDS church, he had known from childhood that his passion was to make films. When he got the idea to meld his cinema training with his LDS faith, he thought he had found his purpose in life. Check out his early movies God’s Army and Brigham City. Yet, in the midst of his initial success, he had a spiritual experience that rocked his world. He tells us what happened and how everything changed in that moment. 

We discuss the very complicated LDS plan of salvation. Pre-existent spirits in heaven with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, literal parents of spirits. Then the second estate or earth life. After earth, LDS go to paradise; everyone else to spirit prison to be taught the LDS gospel. If one accepts the LDS gospel in the next life, they can be released from spirit prison and advance to paradise to await the judgment. Dr. Eklund explains what the LDS missionaries teach about this LDS plan of salvation and gives a biblical response. See this information in the fifth chapter of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message.

How and when did Dr. Eklund become born again? Blue pill or red pill? Matt asks himself, “When I die, do I want Joseph Smith on my side or the Bible on my side?” Can one be born again and remain in the LDS church? These are questions we explore in this episode. When Matt decided he could no longer remain LDS, his LDS fiancé left him. But, he knew a peace he had never experienced before.

Dr. Eklund describes the truths that broke his LDS shelf as he read the Bible and explored church history. He mentions Ephesians 2:8-9, Matthew 22:31, John 6, and the book of Romans as being impactful. He discovers fundamental biblical ideas are incompatible with essential teachings in Mormonism; some are: (1) the nature of the Trinitarian God, (2) there is only One God and He is unchangeable, (3) Salvation comes by grace through faith and not by our works, (4) justification – one is made right before God by Christ’s righteousness, like putting on a cloak, again, not by our works, and (5) LDS priesthood functions like a mediator between one and Jesus – there is no mediator but Jesus. As a scientist, he likens Bible truths and LDS gospel essentials to immiscible fluids. They are incompatible.

Matt discusses how isolating and difficult an LDS mission can be for a missionary who endures rejection many times a day. We encourage Christians to befriend missionaries and engage in respectful and critical conversation. He alludes to some odd happenings in his LDS mission before his time there (the same mission Mitt Romney served in) when several missionaries eventually followed a counselor to the French Mission president into the LeBaron polygamy group in Mexico. 

The Wilders interview Dr. Matthew Eklund, raised LDS in northern Utah. He was baptized at age 10, active on and off during his teen years, Matt eventually desired to receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon. He decided that if he received one, he would serve an LDS mission. The LDS prophet challenged all church members to read the Book of Mormon in 2005. Matt took the challenge, felt a kind of peace, believing this to mean the Book of Mormon was true, so Joseph Smith must have been a prophet of God, and the LDS Church must be the one true church. He served an LDS mission in Belgium, never really questioning his LDS faith. Listen to the next episodes to find out how and why Matt left Mormonism and found Jesus. Dr. Eklund holds a PhD in Nuclear Engineering and Science.

Anna continues to share her story of validating and highlighting the concerns she began to have about the Mormon faith. She compared verses from the Bible and Mormon scripture, did internet research,  and dug into apologetics. Struggling with what to believe, where true faith was, and holding on to the romantic relationship that she longed for, she continued to study. Rejoice with Anna as she shares answers to prayer and the peace and joy she has finally found in Jesus!

Anna Banister was raised in a biblical Christian family but drawn away from her faith to Mormonism through a relationship with an LDS man and his family. The Latter-day Saints taught her that the more persecution she received for pursuing Mormonism, the more she could know that she was choosing the right path. Opposition from biblical Christians was a confirmation Mormonism was true. Anna says she thought Mormonism was giving her control over her own salvation. She was searching, hoping that Mormonism would be true and she was excited about having a forever family. Most of her questions were answered by the LDS missionaries and she was told that the more that she believed the more would be revealed to her. Podcast co-host Joel Groat reminds us that faith is having Jesus as the object of your faith. Faith may have you go beyond reason but will never have you go against reason.

In the book, Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message, Paul addresses LDS Missionary Lesson 3 called, The Gospel of Jesus Christ, from the missionary manual Preach My Gospel. For LDS, eternal life includes doing: faith, repentance, water baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost given by LDS priesthood, and various laws kept and temple ordinances performed as well as enduring to the end to try to reach the highest heaven (Celestial Kingdom). There is no assurance of eternal life in this life in the LDS gospel. Paul brings up some great questions. If LDS argue today their salvation is by grace, then what is the function of the LDS temple? Can anyone go in or do you have to do something to qualify? The Reformation came about when the Catholic Church offered the paying of indulgences for special privileges. Since tithing is required to enter an LDS temple where ordinances are required to strive to reach the highest LDS heaven, isn’t this practice similar to what the reformers fought against? Staircases and ladders? Another difference between the LDS gospel and the gospel of the Bible is that the LDS Holy Ghost leaves someone when they sin, although his role is supposed to give one the strength to obey the commandments. But, how can a Latter-day Saint have the help of the Holy Ghost to strive to reach the Celestial Kingdom if he abandons them when they sin? Isn’t that when one needs him the most? Paul discusses the LDS Holy Ghost’s lack of omnipresence in Episode 46 of the Outer Brightness Podcast. His chapter in the book gives a number of dos and don’ts for witnessing to missionaries and offers scriptures they may use to teach the LDS gospel.

After his mission, Paul poured into books and journals like the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies that supposedly demonstrated evidence for the Book of Mormon. He found there wasn’t really any. Looking online for a good LDS spouse, he met Angela, a new convert from the Cincinnati area. Paul soon moved to the Cincinnati area, found work, and married her in the temple. While working in health insurance, Paul tried to convert Charlotte to the LDS Church. She later returned the Book of Mormon to him and gave him a stack of papers her pastor had given her with reasons to question the LDS faith. Paul read them, began researching the various topics, and his “shelf broke.” Now not sure he even believed in God, Paul decided to simply focus on Christ but remain LDS. While driving, he began to listen to Christian radio hosts such as J. Vernon McGee, David Jeremiah, and Chip Ingram and tried to reconcile their teachings with Mormonism. He says his wonderful Christian father-in-law patiently “poured into him." Then, Paul secretly read In Sacred Loneliness about the plural wives of Joseph Smith. Angela read it as well, her shelf broke, and she longed to return to the grace-filled relationship she had known with Jesus in the evangelical church before she joined the LDS. Paul was ready. His first experience worshipping in an evangelical church made the differences between LDS and traditional Christianity palpable. Jesus was clearly the focus; Joseph Smith was not part of it. Paul was baptized unto Jesus in August of 2011 and then baptized his own son. Find him as co-host on the Outer Darkness Podcast.

Paul Nurnberg returned from his LDS mission (1997-1999) to Hungary with questions. Several Christians he met on his mission showed him that what he preached was a system of works, not compatible with saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as the New Testament taught. Ephesians 2:8-9 especially impacted Paul and he recognized this was different than what he had always understood the gospel to be. Paul came home dreaming of one day becoming an archaeologist who would find the evidence to prove to the world that the Book of Mormon and the LDS gospel was true, but was it?

Corey Miller, former LDS now Christian CEO of Ratio Christi, explains that statistically there are more believers in Jesus in the basic and fundamental sciences like math and physics than in the social sciences. Smart people do believe. Discussion touches on evidences for the reliability of the Bible. Corey recommends the book In Defense of the Bible. We refer listeners to the final chapter in our book Leaving Mormonism: Why Four Scholars Changed their Minds for reasons to believe in God and to believe His Word. Corey reminds Lynn of a debate they did together with LDS apologist James Holt on Unbelievable Radio on November 24, 2017. Jesus is the answer to the human condition.

Proverbs 21.16 says those wander from logic/sound reason will rest in the assembly of the dead. Jesus declares Himself the Logos (Greek word for logic). Therefore, God is love but God is also logic, the fountainhead of rationality. Faith is reasonable. Today’s discussion with Corey Miller, former LDS now biblical Christian and CEO of the apologetics organization RatioChrist, emphasizes the fact that Christianity is a KNOWLEDGE Tradition. It was Christians who first launched the U.S. universities. However, since 1930, the universities have been largely ruled by nonbelievers in Jesus. “As goes the universities, so goes the culture. As goes the U.S. universities, so goes the world,” states Miller. So, Christians created their own universities: Biola, Moody, etc. For those under 40 today, there exist 23 liberals to each one conservative. Find Corey’s article on how to reclaim the universities for Christ here: https://www.equip.org/articles/how-we-lost-the-universities-how-to-recla...

This is Part 2 with the authors of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message, Corey Miller and Ross Anderson. Ross explains that although the LDS missionary manual Preach My Gospel was recently updated, none of the content has changed. When meeting with LDS missionaries, this book will prepare you in advance for what they will teach and give a biblical response. Learning the LDS gospel may help Christians understand the biblical gospel and be better able to articulate our own relationship with the living Jesus. Corey says we have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason—listen to the LDS! Five LDS may give 6 differing opinions on their beliefs. Respond to an individual’s beliefs. Ask questions. In addition to Miller and Anderson’s contributions, this book contains chapters from 6 former LDS missionaries now biblical Christians who also describe their experiences with Christians on their LDS missions, telling what Christians may have said or done that impacted them personally. Ross reminds us to testify to the reality and intimacy of our relationship with Jesus.