The Naked Preacher Podcast

Stop me if you’ve heard this one—a lawyer, a pastor, and a stand-up comic walk into a church… No? Then you’ve never heard of Susan Sparks, who is not only a lawyer, and not only a preacher, but also a bonafide comedian, and she’s joining me today to help me talk about the value of humor in ministry.  It’s not always easy to pull off, and it requires some vulnerability, but if used well, humor can be a powerful tool in the minister’s workshop. Susan is the Pastor of Madison Avenue Baptist Church in New York City, and she is the author of the book, Laugh Your Way to Grace: Reclaiming the Spiritual Power of Humor. Learn more about Susan here.

It seems there are some words “holy people” aren’t allowed to say. Often times, words related to mental illness fall into that category.  For some reason, stigmas have developed around words like “depression” or “counseling,” and the idea in some religious circles is that if you flirt with such words, if you own them as part of your story, then you don’t have enough faith; you’re more broken than the rest of us. It’s time for that to change. With one in five Americans suffering from some sort of mental illness, we need to be real about how those diseases affect our lives.  Today, I’m talking with a couple of brave ministers who are doing just that. First up is Dr. H. Mac Wallace, a licensed therapist and my professor of pastoral care from Campbell University Divinity School.  Dr. Wallace is going to give us a basic understanding of depression and its prevalence in ministry. Then, we’ll hear from my friend Rev. John Carroll, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Danville, VA, who not only has some first hand experience with depression, but who has also been vulnerable in sharing about that experience with his congregation. Theme Music:"Careless Whistle" by AudioQuattro Other Sounds in This Episode:"Wishing Well Wheel" by Podington Bear

Feedback always has the potential to be a scary topic for ministers.  On the one hand, we need it, but on the other, it can be destructive if delivered (or received) poorly. So in the spirit of Halloween, this week’s episode is about the vulnerability it takes for a pastor to open him or herself to the observations of others. My guest is the original “Naked Preacher,” Rev. Dr. Jason Boyd, who pastors Witney Congregational Church in Oxfordshire, England.  Jason’s doctoral work was done around the question of his own preaching—he wanted to know what his congregation experienced and observed as he preached, and he opened himself to a lot of pretty direct feedback in finding those answers. Jason published a book about his research and journey titled The Naked Preacher: Action Research and the Practice of Preaching, which is available for purchase here.  Obviously, he has great taste in titles, and I’m grateful he’s willing to share. Theme Music:"Careless Whistle" by AudioQuattro Other Sounds in This Episode:“Door Creaking (Version 7)” by Finnolia Sound Effects“Door Knock (Version 4)” by Finnolia Sound Effects“Horror Piano Music” by Frank&Stein“Sinister Man Laughing” by Sound Effects

Hopefully, the faith we have today looks a little different than the faith we had when we were younger.  It ought to be a little richer, a little fuller—it ought to have grown. If that’s true for “regular” Christians, shouldn’t it be true for preachers, too? On today’s episode, I have a conversation with Pastor Brian Zahnd, who ministers at Word of Life Church in St. Joseph Missouri.  About 20 years into his life as a pastor, Brian’s faith grew in some pretty significant ways.  He found himself unfulfilled by the Christianity that he was being offered (and that he was offering to others), and God took him on a journey that led him to question, to wrestle, to risk, and ultimately to arrive at a deeper and more vital belief in Jesus than he’d ever had before.  Oh—and he did it all in front of his congregation. Brian details that journey in his book, Water to Wine: Some of My Story, which is how I learned about him, and I invited him to come on the podcast to talk about the vulnerability it required to live that story in real time in front of the people he was serving. Find out more about Brian (including his many other books) here. Theme Music: "Careless Whistle" by AudioQuattro Music in This Episode: “Elephants on Parade" by Podington Bear“Tyrannosaurus Rex Stomps Through Undergrowth” by Sound Ideas“Large Dinosaur Lets out an Intense Cry” by Sound Ideas“Lawn Mower” by Pro Sound Effects Library“Lawn Mower Starting Idling Shutting off (Version 1)” by Finnolia Sound Effects“Crash, Meteor - Explosive Meteor Crash Space Explosions” by Sound Effects Library

Cancer is funny?   That's the belief of Rev. Jason Micheli, pastor of Annandale United Methodist Church in Annandale, VA.  Jason was diagnosed a few years ago with a very rare, very serious form of bone cancer, and he's here to talk with me about how journeying through his sickness while pastoring forced him to be more vulnerable in front of his congregation.  Jason is also joined by his friends, fellow UMC pastors Teer Hardy and Taylor Mertins, who lend some outsider perspective on his experience. Fun points in this episode include a conversation about how to grow a beard, a toilet-themed fundraiser, and the censorship of a few "adult" words provided by my little boys, Steven and Parrish. Hear more from Jason, Teer, and Taylor on their podcast, "Crackers and Grape Juice", and be sure to check out Jason's book about his journey, Cancer Is Funny, available here.  

It’s easy for people to think their ministers are superhuman. Nothing challenges that presumption more overtly than physical sickness.  When a pastor gets sick, those she or he serves have to stare into the inescapable reality of human brokenness—they see that even the good servant of God is frail, and gets weak, and has worries and questions. Maybe that’s a good thing. It has been, anyway, in the journeys of two pastors I know who have led while being seriously and chronically ill.  I’ll speak with both of those pastors this week, devoting an episode to each interview, so we can hear what it’s been like for them to be vulnerable in this way before their congregations. My first conversation is with Molly Brummett Wudel, a friend of mine who received a Lupus diagnosis while just beginning her first pastorate.  Molly ministers at Emmaus Way, an ecumenical community of Christian faith in Durham, NC.  Learn more about her at mollybrummettwudel.wordpress.com/about.

I suppose the most appropriate way to start a podcast about vulnerability is by sharing my life’s most embarrassing moment.  Right? Tune in to hear that story, and—even better—a conversation with Rev. Dr. Amy Butler, Senior Minister of the Riverside Church in New York City, who not only writes about and teaches classes on pastoral vulnerability, but who leads vulnerably as a pastor, herself.  Seriously, I couldn’t have dreamed up a better conversation for this show’s inaugural episode; plus,   as an added bonus, if you listen long enough you get to hear Amy say "h-e-double hockey sticks.”  #rebelpreachers Learn more about Amy on her church’s website, www.trcnyc.org/pastoramy. Theme Music:"Careless Whistle" by AudioQuattro Music in this episode:"Invisible Is Not Invincible" by Podington Bear

What would happen if preachers showed the world their real selves?  Maybe this podcast can help answer that question. As part of my Doctor of Ministry Capstone Project, I'm interested in measuring whether hearing the stories of ministers who dare to be vulnerable in front of their congregations can encourage other clergy to do the same.  So I'm making a podcast as a format to share those stories. First, though, I need help knowing how to do it.  What's it like to start a podcast, especially while pastoring a church?  Luke Norsworthy, a fellow pastor with a podcast of his own, is here to give me the answers. On this "teaser" to the upcoming "The Naked Preacher Podcast," hear my vision for this project and my conversation with Luke.  The highlights include: An assurance that we are both wearing clothes; a short game of "Name that John Legend Lyric"; and a cruel, darky humorous proposition of names for my future children. Check out more about Luke, including details about his podcast, "Newsworthy with Norsworthy," and his upcoming book, God Over Good, here.