Hunt a Killer: Deep Dives

***If you haven't already, please listen to the previous episode of Behind True Crime with Billy and Paul titled Finishing the late Michelle McNamara's 'I'll Be Gone in the Dark:' I had crime writer Billy Jensen and research assistant Paul Haynes on Behind True Crime this last March when Michelle McNamara’s now legendary book 'I’ll Be Gone in the Dark' had just come out. After Michelle’s sudden death, Billy and Paul were asked by her husband, comedian Patton Oswalt, to help organize her notes and writings into the now number one New York Times bestselling book about her hunt to finally identify the serial murderer she dubbed the Golden State Killer. Little did we know the last time we talked we were only a month away from seeing the face of the man responsible for at least 12 murders and over 50 rapes in various areas of California in the 1970s and 80s. Today Billy and Paul, the two of the men who completed the late Michelle’s masterpiece of research, dedication, self-reflection, and obsession, tell me about what their lives have been like since this whirlwind of 'I’ll Be Gone in the Dark' and the revelation that came only two months after its publication. We talk DeAngelo’s arrest, the affect Michelle’s book had on the investigation, the revelation of ancestry DNA in cold cases, and what it was like to finally see the face that Michelle never stopped looking for. Get a copy of 'I'll Be Gone in the Dark' here: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062319784/ill-be-gone-in-the-dark/ Billy's website: billyjensen.com/ Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Chapman and Maclain Way are the directors behind Netflix’s six-part docuseries Wild Wild Country, a deep dive into the unbelievable story of a new age meditation cult active in the 1980s, its creation of a vast commune in rural Oregon, and its ongoing conflicts with their neighbors, a small conservative community of only 60 people. Complete with orgies, drugged beer, voter and immigration fraud, religious prejudice, assault rifles, government intervention, and attempted murder, 'Wild Wild Country' skillfully waffles opinions of the complicated and dramatic conflict back and forth, forcing audiences to think critically, and leaving us wondering, in every possible way, who’s side are we on? Chapman and Maclain share their experiences creating this hugely successful series. Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Sasha Reid is a PHD student of Applied Psychology and Human Development at the University of Toronto. Her focus is on sexually motivated, psychopathic murderers, and her work in the field of phenomenology “aims to better understand the inner worlds and motivations of serial killers.” Sasha also created her own comprehensive database for missing persons in Canada. As she plugged in over 8,000 names and profiles, she noticed the patterns of what appeared to be a serial killer operating in Toronto’s “Gay Village,” in a neighborhood called Church and Wellesy, a community already suspicious that a killer was among them. She created a suspect profile and contacted authorities with her ideas. and a year later Bruce McArthur, a landscaper who allegedly met his victims on mobile dating apps, was arrested and charged with eight counts of first degree murder. He closely matched the profile Sasha had created from her research. Follow the brilliant Sasha Reid on twitter at @TheReal_DrReid Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Emma Hardy and Grace Harrison had never seen a true crime magazine that didn't make them cringe. They met at a London-based publisher and soon found that they shared an obsessive interest in crime, but also agreed that much of the genre was too sensational, often to the detriment of victims. So the two set out to create their own magazine, 'Foul Play.' Grace told the Stylist: “It’s for people who are interested in crime, but not for those wanting to revel in someone’s misfortune. Whenever we come up with an idea for a story we discuss whether there are any conflicts that might make running it distasteful; a piece needs to be interesting without appealing to people’s morbid fascination with death, horror and crime.” Emma continued: “We’re never going to publish a crime scene photo or serial killer cover star. Instead, we’re going to focus on long-form features, beautiful photography and lots of advice on what our readers should be reading, watching and listening to. Foul Play is for discerning true crime fans.” It's an incredible magazine in both content and design, an important and responsible addition to the world of true crime. And, if you've ever had a dream to write about crime, now is your chance, they are always taking submissions for future issues. To preorder issue two or to submit, go to www.foulplaymag.com Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order

Beloved crime writer Michelle McNamara died suddenly in 2016 before she could complete her book about an uncaught California serial killer she named the Golden State Killer. Her husband, comedian Patton Oswalt, hired crime writer Billy Jensen and Michelle's research assistant, Paul Haynes, to organize her drafts and notes into a publishable manuscript. Her incredible book, 'I'll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman's Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer' is now a number one New York Times bestseller. Michelle's book is an incredibly important addition to the lexicon of true crime: a beautiful, thoughtful, obsessive work that very well may lead to the capture of a prolific and brutal serial killer who operated in the mid 70s to mid 80s, responsible for 50 rapes and 10 murders. It was Billy and Paul that brought her work to life. Purchase Michelle's book here: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062319784/ill-be-gone-in-the-dark Billy's website: http://billyjensen.com/ Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order

Dr. Valarie Bell is a computational social scientist who holds masters degrees in forensic psychology, forensic social psychology, and sociology of deviant, psychopathic & sociopathic behavior. She is a professor at the University of North Texas and is currently teaching two classes, “Introduction to Criminal Profiling for the Amateur,“ and  “Introduction to Internet True Crime Sleuthing.” In addition to teaching, Dr. Bell also works to identify active hunting grounds of American serial killers by using geographic, geolocation, & spatial analysis along with public government, census, and crime data. It sounds complicated, and it is, but don’t worry, she’ll explain, and her conclusions might shock you. Dr. Bell has also worked for courts doing forensic evaluations of suspects, meaning that she decides whether there are grounds for insanity pleas in murder cases. This is just the beginning of the vast amount of criminal profiling work that Dr. Bell has, and is contributing to. Today she is going to share her incredible expertise in the area of serial murder, a field rife with misconceptions, false experts, and complicated, ever-changing theories. She will be dispelling some myths for us, especially in the area of criminal psychology. She certainly schooled me. Check out Dr. Bell's website here: http://journalism.unt.edu/people/valarie-bell Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Today I am talking to the team behind A Very Fatal Murder, the Onion’s genius true crime parody that tells the story of fictional New York podcaster David Pascall as he sets out to find and solve the perfect murder in order to comment compellingly on American society, but mostly to win himself awards. He heads to the small rural town of Bluff Springs, Nebraska to investigate the ridiculous murder of Haley Price, and the podcast he creates is complete with all the true crime tropes, pensive piano music, think accents, crying interviews, cheap poetic monologues, and amazing fake subscription box commercials, promo code Haley. I am joined today by writer David Sidorov, who also voiced David Pascall, director Ryan Natoli, and associate director Fran Hoepfner. The four of us discuss the value of parody, the podcasts and docuseries that served as inspiration, and try to answer the age old question of why is true crime so popular, and why we are so obsessed. Check out 'A Very Fatal Murder' here, and on iTunes: https://www.theonion.com/c/a-very-fatal-murder Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

David Ridgen is an award-winning Canadian podcaster, filmmaker, and journalist, known most prominently for his work on 'Someone Knows Something,' a CBC original podcast that investigates cold cases in both Canada and the United States. SKS’s most recent season was a look back at the murder of two black men by the Ku Klux Klan in 1964, Charles Eddie Moore and Henry Hezekiah Dee. Season three shares the heartbreaking and uplifting story of David’s mission for justice with Thomas Moore, the brother of Charles Moore. Through perseverance, courage, and investigative work, Thomas and David were able to see a conviction in this civil-rights-era case that has long haunted the families of Dee and Moore, and the community at large. Season three acts as a retrospective look at the work they did together in the mid to late 2000s, and is accompanied by several films David also created as they moved through the case, most prominently, Mississippi Cold Case, which led Mississippi state officials to reopen the case against now convicted murderer James Ford Seale. We talk about this case and the cases covered in previous seasons as well. David also tells us just a little about season four, which drops today, February 6th. Please check it out, David's work is some of the most empathetic and beautiful crime work I've ever heard. You can find David's podcast, 'Someone Knows Something,' here: www.cbc.ca/radio/sks Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

This episode continues difficult subject matter around childhood sexual abuse. *Check out part one for more information* In episode one of this two part series, we spoke with several people to follow up on the continued work toward justice since Netflix’s Oscar nominated docuseries The Keepers premiered in May of 2017. The series explored the murder of Sister Cathy Cesnik in 1969, a 26 year old nun and teacher, but there was much more to the story than that. A ring of abuse was taking place at Archbishop Keough High School with a man named Father Joseph Maskell at the center, and his victims are now assumed to be in the hundreds. It is likely he hand a hand in Sister Cathy's murder, who was trying to expose the abuse. Teresa Lancaster and Alan Horn join us again for part two, where explore the what it’s like to be working voluntarily on a case like this. We will also be speaking with a woman who chose to go by the name Piper, one of the volunteers who works along side Alan and Teresa making calls to victims and piecing together clues. Piper wished to remain anonymous, as powerful institutions are involved in what Alan, Teresa, Piper, and many others believe to be a serious cover-up. Piper shares with us what it is like to work on a case like this. Like I said before, we are exploring what happens when the cameras go off, when the awards season is over, but justice has not yet been served. Here is the official Facebook page to meet others and get involved: https://www.facebook.com/groups/454252571596239/ Please get in touch with Teresa and Alan via email if you have any information around the death of Sister Cathy, Joyce Malecki, or the abuse perpetrated by Father Joseph Maskell, or if you would like to volunteer to help find justice. Teresa's email: tflawyer@verizon.net Alan's email: basicbus@gmail.com You can hear Teresa's podcast here: https://soundcloud.com/leafingout Here is a link to SNAP: http://www.snapnetwork.org/ Thank you for listening to this very important episode. Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

This episode continues difficult subject matter around childhood sexual abuse. *Part two coming January 23* The Keepers, a 7-part, Oscar nominated docuseries from Netflix, premiered in May of 2017, and existed on its surface as an investigation into the 1969 murder of Sister Cathy Cesnik, a 26-year-old nun and teacher at Arch Bishop Keough HS in Baltimore. But it was obvious right away that the murder of Sister Cathy wasn’t the only story that needed to be told. The series also helped to give a mainstream voice to several sexual abuse victims of Father Joseph Maskell, who was a counselor at the high school who died in 2001 and likely had a role in Sister Cathy’s murder, as it is believed that she was threatening to expose the profound abuse that was occurring to high school students at the hands of Maskell and other powerful community members, abuse that was covered up by the same powerful institutions. In the first part of this two part series, I am joined by Teresa Lancaster, who you will remember from the Keepers. She is one of the two women who first spoke out about the abuse she suffered at the hands of Maskell, and continues to work toward justice for Maskell’s victims, over 100 of which have come forward. Along with Jean Wehner, known then as Jane Doe, Teresa became known in 1994 as ‘Jane Roe,’ but, after horrific court proceedings, the Maryland Court of Appeals refused to allow the case to go to trial because the statue of limitations had passed. Nonetheless, that courageous act sparked the events that would go on to form The Keepers, and would allow a community to join together to fight for a long overdue justice, both for Sister Cathy, and for the victims of abuse at Keough and beyond. Teresa has since become a lawyer. Alan Horn, who was also featured in the Keepers documentary, is an amateur investigator who has voluntarily played a very helpful role in the path toward justice through his individual research. We are going to hear more about him, and also more from in the next episode. Both Teresa and Alan came to be associated with these cases in very different ways, but now both work toward the same goals. We will also be speaking with a woman named Dr. Pamela Pine, an expert in childhood sexual abuse, who will help us understand this abuse as a public health crisis. Thank you for listening to this very important episode. You can find more about Stop the Silence here: http://www.naasca.org/StopTheSilence/bio-PamelaPine.htm Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Ryan Garlick and David Oranchak were part of a team assembled by the History Channel in hopes of breaking the Zodiac killer’s most infamous unsolved cipher, the Z-340, and possibly using the code to find the long unidentified killer. The History Channel brought together computer scientists and code experts as well as experienced investigators for their five part series titled The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer. Ryan is a professor of computer sciences at University of North Texas*, and David, a software developer. Ryan has taught classes on the Zodiac's ciphers and has appeared previously on National Geographic’s show Code-Breakers. David runs a website on the Zodiac ciphers and is considered an expert in his strange brand of codes. With the help of an AI named CARMEL, a robot designed to think like a serial killer, The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer recently concluded with a bombshell finale: it seems that the team may have solved part of the seemingly impossible code. *The introduction states that Ryan teaches at the University of Texas. He actually teaches at the University of North Texas. Check out Dave's website here: http://www.zodiackillerciphers.com/ Create poems using CARMEL here: http://52.24.230.241/poem/advance/ Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Max Cutler, Vanessa Richardson, and Greg Polcyn are the minds and voices behind the extremely popular true crime podcast 'Serial Killers,' and more recently, 'Cults.' Max is the president and co-founder of the podcast network Parcast, and he is also the creator and producer of both Serial Killers and Cults, among many others. Vanessa and Greg are the co-hosts and researchers behind both shows, and they weave together storytelling, voice acting, and psychology to create informative and entertaining looks at famous crimes and criminals. They also have some of the best voices I’ve ever heard. Greg is also the host of Haunted Places and Vanessa, a co-host of Remarkable Lives. Tragic Deaths, now called Historical Figures. Max, Vanessa, and Greg are a lot of fun, and we also get pretty deep on this episode. Check it out! Check out both 'Serial Killers' and 'Cults,' as well as other great podcasts on the Parcast Network here: https://www.parcast.com/ Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

Joe Berlinger is a documentarian known in part for his social-justice focused work around the criminal justice system. Along with Bruce Sinofsky, Joe co-directed HBO’s incredible three-film documentary series Paradise Lost, about the child murders in Robin Hood Hills, and the unfair trial and imprisonment of the teenaged boys known as the West Memphis Three. Joe has also directed several other films in the genre of crime, his first film, Brother’s Keeper in 1992, is a haunting and nuanced film about the trial of Delbert Ward who was falsely accused of killing his brother. The film attempted dispel harmful stereotypes about poor rural life, and to give voice to those who hadn’t had a chance to speak their truth. Joe’s documentary works that focus on the crime and the justice system are, Whitey: United States of America v. James J. Bulger, Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio, The System with Joe Berlinger on Aljazeera. Now Joe has a new series out on the Sundance Channel called Cold Blooded, which explores the murder of the Clutter Family in 1959, the case that Truman Capote covered in his novel In Cold Blood, credited as the work that created the modern genre of true crime. Joe is a filmmaker who cares deeply about the communities he enters, and his films find seek to find not only justice, but also to to reveal emotional truths of his subjects. Check out the first part of Cold Blooded, out Saturday November 18th on the Sundance Channel. Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order.

C.W.S. is a crime writer, poet, musician, and host of this very podcast. I'm C.W.S. and I'm writing about myself in the third person because this week, you're getting to know me. I've invited a true crime buddy of mine to come on and ask ME some questions for once. We are going full My Favorite Murder today, because humor is one one to deal with scary things. So loosen your tie, take your hair down, pour yourself a drink, and let us get just a little indignant. Come join me and podcast host Kristen Rogers Anderson on this very special episode of Behind True Crime. Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order. Check out C.W.S.’ blog at huntakiller.com/blog Check out Kristen’s podcasts here: http://www.talkbomb.com/ And check out a sneak preview of her new podcast, Guide to the Unknown, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zzo0FtZDI4

Christopher Goffard is the LA Times journalist behind Dirty John, the riveting true crime podcast that has topped itunes charts for weeks. Dirty John is the multi-generation story of one family dealing with a dangerous con man, and with a difficult past that informs their decisions. Inspired by old radio shows, this is the first time Christopher has brought his writing to life with recorded interviews, music, and his own voice. Through the storytelling of Dirty John, Christopher hopes to help those who may be trapped in dangerous relationships. Christopher is also the author of Framed, a six-part series about the framing of a PTA mom in the super-safe suburbia of Irvine, California. As part of a team, Christopher was a 2011 Pulizter Prize winner and two time nominee, and author of two books, You Will See Fire, A Search for Justice in Kenya, and Snitch Jacket, a crime novel. Christopher is a true journalist, a caring, curious person who never stops asking questions, he even had some for me. Behind True Crime is sponsored by Hunt A Killer, the monthly murder mystery subscription box service. Check them out at huntakiller.com and use the code BEHIND for 10% off your first order. Check out Dirty John here: http://wondery.com/wondery/shows/dirtyjohn/ Check out Framed here: http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-framed/ Check out Christopher's books here: http://christophergoffard.com/books/