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Summary: Podcast by Katey Zeh and Ashley Peterson

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  • Artist: Katey Zeh and Ashley Peterson
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 Adventures in Self-Help | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:55:43

From "life-hacking" productivity and personality tests, to relationship advice gurus and Christian based self-improvement, the genre of self-help is vast and wide. In this episode we dive into the self-help atmosphere with reflections on some of the best self-help books we've read, tried, and continue to live by.  We also explore the ways in which we have been taught that self-help is and isn't compatible with faith. Read the full show notes:

 Our Favorite Things | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:49:59

What brings joy, even for a moment? What do we turn to when life is getting us down? Ashley and Katey share some of their favorite things, from books and podcasts to hair towels and face sprays, that are keeping them going during a tough season of work stress, parenting woes, and political chaos.

 The Abortion Episode | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:52:58

Abortion. We're talking all about it in this episode. We dive into the history of Christianity and abortion and how that showed up in our church upbringings. We discuss the state of abortion access today and how abortion fits within the broader framework of reproductive justice. And, we talk about how we are Christians who support abortion and why we need to talk about it more.  Full show notes:

 The Highs and Lows of Leadership | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:45:06

As the old saying goes, "It's lonely at the top." We explore life as non-profit executive directors and how we cope with the isolation and pressure of being the primary decision-makers for our organizations. We also talk about what makes leadership awesome and what strategies we use to sustain their work at the top. (Big shout out to Shine Theory!) And of course, we talk about the models of strong female leadership we saw (or didn't see) in church and beyond.

 Women Rise Up | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:41:50

On this special episode Ashley interviews Katey about her newly released book Women Rise Up: Sacred Stories of Resistance for Today's Revolution. It's a timely take on the tenacious women of the Bible and a fresh look at how to discuss ancient texts in the context of today's struggle for gender justice Women Rise Up is a great option for summer book clubs, bible studies, and youth group gatherings. There's even a free discussion guide available on Katey's website. We honor the legacy of Rachel Held Evans who touched us both with her writing and her generous spirit. We are so saddened by her tragic death, and we are challenged to honor her legacy of curiosity, generosity, and community in the ways that we move through the world. Read the full show notes:

 Men and Feminism | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:47:35

On this episode we ask, "Can men even be feminists? And if they can, why would they *want* to be feminists?" We talk about patriarchy, toxic and tender masculinities, and displays of allyship from men and boys that we celebrate.  For the full show notes, visit

 Aging into Our Thirties | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:51:42

This episode is all about getting older. We talk about how old we are now (34 and 35, respectively), how we feel about being in our thirties, what our bodies are like, what we’re afraid of and excited about around getting older, and what advice we’d give our younger selves. Full shownotes:

 White Feminism | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:59:16

What is white feminism, and why is it a problem? In this episode we discuss our own revelations about white feminism, why it's problematic, and how white women can take active steps towards allyship. Full shownotes:

 Our Listener Request Episode | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:48:45

In our final episode of 2018 we answer *your* questions!  Why Church? What do we mean by "church home"? Do you choose friends just like you? Or do opposites attract? Would you ever consider interviewing a conservative white woman on the show? We also share some of our favorite Advent resources “Angels We Have Heard on High by our friend Rev. Elizabeth Henry on the Our Bible App "Poor, Young, and Pregnant: Christmas Meditations on Maternal Health," written by Katey! What We're Reading and Listening To  Katey devoured  See Me Naked: Stories of Sexual Exile in American Christianity by Amy Frykholm. Each chapter is a story of a person struggling to reconcile their faith and their sexuality, and in the midst of great pain, there is also hope and redemption. Both Katey and Ashley binge-listened to The Dream podcast about multi-level marketing companies--and their close ties to various faith communities. It would be great for a long car ride. Ashley's favorite book this year was Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi.  It begins in West Africa, and the book follows the progeny of two sisters, one who was sold into slavery and went to America and the other who stayed in Africa. It’s a challenging book, but incredibly powerful. That's it for 2019! We'll be back in February with a brand new episode. In the meantime, keep in touch by sending us an email at Read the full shownotes at

 Gender Identity and Expression with Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:53:59

On this episode we work on expanding our understanding of gender by breaking free of the  gender binary. Gender is so embedded in our culture that we forget that it's a construct rather than a given. We're thrilled to have our friend Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza--a Latinx scholar, queer activist, and public theologian--join us for a conversation about gender, theology, and imagination. We start by defining some key terms: cisgender, transgender, and non-binary. We pulled them from the Trans Student Educational Resources--find these definitions and many others on their site, Follow Dr. Robyn on Twitter (@irboyn), Instagram (@irobyn), and on their website, What We're Reading and Listening To  Katey has been looking for books to share with her young daughter, and here are a few to check out. Julián Is a Mermaid by Jessica Love. Explores tension of gender expression and family. Neither by Airlie Anderson.  Disrupts the binary.  Sparkle Boy by Lesléa Newman. Celebrates gender expression.  How to Be a Girl is a podcast that Ashley loves and has recommended in the past. The host is the mother of a trans daughter, and she shares about the journey that they embark on as her daughter learns to navigate the world as a trans girl.  Kindreds of the Moment  The National Center for Transgender Equality is the nation's leading social justice advocacy organization winning life-saving change for transgender people. In addition to their public advocacy work, the Center has some helpful resources on understanding non-binary gender identity and how to support and respect folks who identify as non-binary: -You don’t have to understand what it means for someone to be non-binary to respect them. -Use the name a person asks you to use. -Try not to make any assumptions about people’s gender. -If you’re not sure what pronouns someone uses, ask. -Advocate for non-binary friendly policies. -Understand that, for many non-binary people, figuring out which bathroom to use can be challenging. -Talk to non-binary people to learn more about who they are. Visit them at Read the full show notes at

 Charity without Justice is Toxic | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:48:19

Announcement: Our final episode of 2018 will be our Listener Request Episode, so keep sending us your questions and suggestions for topics you’d like us to address! You can send us a quick email at Building on our last episode about money, we're focusing this episode on the big picture of money and the church. Where do our charitable contributions to churches--$83 BILLION every year--"go"? Do we know what organizations and charities our faith-based organizations support? Should we care? We talk about religion disguised as health care (i.e. crisis pregnancy centers), the trouble with disaster relief efforts (Ashley talks about her experience after Hurricane Katrina), and why our contributions of goods can cause organizations more headaches than help. Here are some of our personal tips for giving better: 1. Give to local organizations where you have the opportunity to build relationships with the staff, volunteers, and clients. 2. Follow the local organizers after a disaster. Social media can often point the way. 3. Resist the urge to give stuff unless it’s requested. If you must give, contribute the unsexy stuff--adult diapers, underwear, socks, tampons, condoms, etc. What We're Reading and Listening To Ashley has been devouring season 3 of the Serial podcast and as an accompaniment, she's been reading along with the SerialLand blog, which is researched and written by Rebecca Maurer, an attorney who lives and works in Cleveland. Katey came across the article  “Making Hunger History: Komal Ahmad” in the October issue of Experience Life magazine. Read about Kamal's success in creating effective systems for distributing leftover food to the people who need it. Kindreds of the Moment Circle of Health International (COHI), a nonprofit based in Austin, Texas, aligns itself with local, community based organizations led and powered by women to assist in disaster relief efforts. They are currently raising $50,000 to help with Hurricane Michael relief to: Hire a team of evacuee women to coordinate COHI's relief efforts within the shelters  Provide cash grants to evacuees to cover emergency housing and transportation costs for vulnerable women and children who've lost their homes and vehicles in the storm Provide cash grants to evacuees to cover costs associated with labor and delivery support and medical care for medically fragile kids To donate visit Do something good! Visit for the full show notes.

 The Value and Virtue of Money | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:53:16

Announcement: Our next Patreon supporter to pledge at the $7+ level will receive a free copy of Linda Kay Klein's Pure. Make a pledge today on our Patreon page. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show. Money.  How do we earn it, spend it, and save it? On this episode Ashley and Katey talk about the messages we got about money in childhood  from family and church and how those beliefs have evolved. We discuss scarcity, secrecy, and stewardship. Plus, what was Jesus *really* saying about money when he talked about the camel going through the eye of a needle? What We're Reading and Listening To Katey is following Rachel Cargle on Instagram where she posts a lot about whiteness, race, justice, and self-love. This recurring post that she has posted on Fridays encourages us to check in with our friends by sending them a few bucks for their morning coffee. It's a small way to say, "I see you, and I value you." Try it out this week! Ashley recommends the podcast Bad With Money With Gaby Dunn. Dunn self-professes to be clueless about money--but she's on a journey to figure it out. Every episode she dives into a conversation about money with celebrities, experts, and other special guests. Kindreds of the Moment  Ruchika Tulshyan recently gave an interview on Harvard Business Review's Women at Work podcast. She wrote a piece for HBR Business Review entitled, “Women of Color Get Asked to Do More 'Office Housework.' Here’s How They Can Say No.” Some key quotes: "For on-the-spot requests like ordering lunch, I’ve used, 'I really need to be present during this discussion as it’s critical to what I’m working on.'" "I’ve previously written about a group of female professors at Carnegie Mellon who formed an 'I just can’t say no' club to help them refuse what they called “office favors.” Cultivating this network of allies becomes particularly important for women of color as we progress."  Learn more about Tulshyan's work on her website. Stuff We Mentioned The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist Suze Orman's books Women and Money and The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous, & Broke The Fairer Cents podcast You Need a Budget (YNAB) Read the full show notes at

 Our Evolving Spiritual Practices | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:45:49

We dive into prayer, meditation, and all the spiritual practices we do (or don't do) and how our spiritual lives have evolved over time--and continue to evolve. Here are some practices that we find meaningful in this stage of life: Journaling Being in nature Choosing a yearly mantra Having a regular gratitude practice Praying the Daily Examen, a meditative practice to end the day What We're Reading and Listening To  Thanks to Ashley's recommendation, Katey ate up the third season of the StartUp podcast, which follows the ups and downs of a new church plant in Philadelphia. It has us feeling *all kinds* of complicated. Go listen so we can all discuss! BONUS: there's an extra episode that features a woman church planter. Ashley reads Nayyirah Waheed's poetry collections Salt and Nejma, which she posts often on her Instagram feed. In particular, her poem "as you are | you are the prayer" is speaking deep truth. If you're looking for more inclusive spiritual resources, we recommend Our Bible App. Their mission: "Through devotionals highlighting pro LGBT, pro-women and encourage interfaith inclusivity we hope to provide a tool that is needed to create healthy prayer and meditation habits." We're excited that Kindreds will soon be featured on their list of recommended podcasts.

 Friendship in Adulthood | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:48:35

Why is making friends in adulthood so tough?  On this episode Ashley and Katey discuss the ways that we've tried (and failed) to find friends, how we've learned to change our friendship expectations over time, and some ways that we carved out space for friendship in our busy schedules (even with young kiddos!). If you're looking to make new friends, here are some things you might try: Consider making your home (or a space you like to go) the place where people gather. Invite folks for a potluck dinner, a board game night, or a celebration of a minor holiday. Yes, you'll have to clean up before (and after), but it'll probably be worth it. Ask your friends to connect you with their friends. Think friend blind dates. When an opportunity comes along, say yes. Take the risk and dive in. If you can't get together at the proposed time or if you need to cancel, apologize and make a specific plan to meet up in the very near future.  Err on the generous side. Be the one to invite others. Let go of what others "should" do and do what you *want* to do. Make community happen on your terms. What We're Reading and Listening To  Ashley recently finished Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson about his work at the Equal Justice Initiative, an organization that provides legal defense for people who can’t afford it.  Ashley describes the writing style as "John Grisham-like," which will engross you from the start. Stevenson ends the book by suggesting practical ways for citizens to get involved with ending mass incarceration. Katey devoured an advanced copy of Linda Kay Klein's now-available book Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free. She takes on the purity movement in a no-holds-barred-kind of way that Kindreds listeners will just love. (If you haven't listened to our episode "Dating Rules," go check it out.)  Kindreds of the Moment Katey shares about her newest professional endeavor as the newest team member of Crouch & Associates, a performance consulting firm that truly lives into the values we espouse to our clients. If you're involved with a nonprofit organization that needs assistance with fundraising, please reach out to us. Stuff We Talked About The Little Book of Lykke  11 Perfectly Introverted Ways To Make Friends As An Adult” Next time on Kindreds  we'll be talking about meditation, prayer, and spiritual practices. Visit the shownotes here: **Have you pledged to support Kindreds on our Patreon page? You can sign up in less than a minute–and for as little as $1 a month. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show**

 Resilience and Overcoming the Fear of Failure | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:48:20

Don't be afraid to fail big.  But who gets to fail without real consequences? And how do we recover from life's most disappointing moments? Today we discuss some of our failures, our feelings about them, and how we've learned to cultivate resilience through building our internal "toolbox" of skills and practices. What We're Reading and Listening To Ashley has been watching the Queer Eye reboot on Netflix. Jonathan Van Ness, one of the cast members, has a  podcast called Getting Curious. His episode "How to Apply Ethics to Everyday Life," a conversation with Christian ethicist Ryan Huber, whose scholarship focuses on German theologian and anti-Nazi activist Dietrich Bonhoeffer, offers an accessible way to learn more about a complex, nuanced issue. Katey has been giggling at Riot's Womanhood series on Youtube featuring comedians Aparna Nancherla and Jo Firestone. Katey discovered the duo on an episode of the Unladylike podcast called "How to Gal Pal." While all of the episodes will have you in stitches, she recommends you start with this one:  “Do you Need Helmets for Aqua Cycling?” Kindreds of the Moment We are celebrating all of the resisters who are speaking out against injustice. Here are some of our favorites: -600 women sit-in at the Senate Building protesting family separation, wrapped in foil blankets. Almost all of them were arrested. -Clergy protest family separation and Jeff Sessions in Los Angeles  -Clergywomen demonstrate outside of Customs and Border Protection office in DC -Patricia Okuomou, immigrant from Congo, climbed the Statue of Liberty on the 4th of July to protest ICE and family separation. She said, “'When they go low, we go high,’ and I went as high as I could.” We'll be taking the month of August off from recording. We'll be back with new episodes in September. **Have you pledged to support Kindreds on our Patreon page? You can sign up in less than a minute–and for as little as $1 a month. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show.**


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