NSCA’s Coaching Podcast

Hear from Cristi Bartlett, Assistant Athletic Director and Director of Olympic Strength and Conditioning at North Carolina State University, about her path through the professional ranks from student to department head. Bartlett talks to NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about making moves in the field, seeking opportunities for growth, the current state of strength and conditioning coach salaries, and other areas that can be improved in the profession. Connect with Cristi on Instagram: @bartlettc42| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“But it's something that if you can see continual progress, that is a pretty good self-check for you that you're doing some things well and making good decisions. And it's not all about salary, sometimes it is about just that quality experience. And in giving up salary for a period of time to get that.” 18:06 “If you never have a seat at the table nobody's going to know what strength coaches do for the program. And so now you get to give some input or some insight as to how we play a role in the department holistically. I think that's important because if you want the industry to grow, you have to have somebody in that seat as a strength and conditioning coach.” 19:50 “Just the overall development of the athlete, the physical piece is one thing. However, I think the mental piece is even bigger. They see that they can push to do what they're actually capable of.” 23:46 “I think it's super important that you actually have some practical experience from applied experience for your own personal stuff too. You cannot tell an athlete to do something that you've never done. I mean as an athlete, I wouldn't respect you at all if you told me to squat and you haven't lifted a bar.” 26:48

Listen in as Angelo Gingerelli, Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coordinator at Seton Hall University in New Jersey, tells the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about his journey in the strength and conditioning profession. Topics include working collaboratively as a strength and conditioning staff, positive social media practices, taking on additional staff responsibilities as an adjunct professor, and working with endurance athletes.   You can reach out to Coach Gingerelli on Instagram: @finish_strong_book| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I think so much our profession is based on getting an internship and making some connections, but I don't think we spend enough time teaching young coaches you have to nurture those connections. Like going up introducing somebody at a conference, that's a great thing, but what do you do next? Is there a follow-up email? What are you doing when that internship is over?” 6:41 “But I think the lesson for young coaches out there is, we argue a lot, the value of a master's degree. You have to have it, but we view it more as kind of checking a box on a resume than getting a lot from it a lot of time in the coaching profession. And I can tell you straight up and down having that master's in health promotion and MEd in education led to me teaching my first class. I was the only person that could do it, and it's led to tens of thousands of dollars in revenue over the last decade by being able to teach these classes and adjuncts.” 29:42 “So I tell young coaches, get as much experience as you can, intern under as many people as you can, read everything you can, and then start to develop your coaching philosophy or principles around that.” 35:04 “I would say the biggest thing I did as my development as a strength and conditioning coach that changed the game for me, in 2011, I ran a marathon.” 36:08

Hear from Bri Kanz, Assistant Athletic Director of Sports Performance for Santa Clara University. Kanz connects with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, on key stops along her professional path, including her most recent position at Stanford University. Learn how injury inspired Kanz to pursue strength and conditioning, about her move to the West Coast, and her enthusiasm for Olympic sport strength and conditioning. Kanz shares her insight on what it takes to be an effective strength and conditioning coach and where she sees the field going in the future.   Connect with Bri on Instagram: @brikanz| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“And that's kind of where I started my coaching career at. And just from there, I just fell in love with it. I love the transformation process. I loved watching athletes grow. I loved being able to have an impact on the next generation. And that's kind of where I started my journey.” 3:20 “The biggest challenges that I faced, honestly, was knowing when to end the chapter and start a new one. I think saying goodbye to the athletes and the relationships that you've built along the way is always a challenge. And it's always hard to make that decision.” 8:40 “First and foremost, you have to be able to work well with others. If you're not able to work well with others and create your own team, then you're not going to be successful period.” 13:14 “If you don't have a reason why you want to be in this field, then you're not going to get very far. So just always knowing your why. And whenever you're having a hard day, just coming back to it and knowing that it's for a bigger purpose other than yourself.” 27:21

Hear from 2022 NSCA Professional Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year, Dan Dalrymple. Dalrymple shares insight, advice, and comparisons on working with players at the college and professional levels. He also mentions his special career connection with 2022 NSCA College Strength and Conditioning Coach, Liane Blyn. Tune in as Dalrymple talks to NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about professional development for coaches, and how the NSCA played a valuable role throughout his career development.  Connect with Dan on Instagram: @dan_dalrymple | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I always liken it to like NASCAR where the assistant coaches, and strength conditioning coaches, and everyone else is kind of the pit crew. And we're keeping the product on the road. And so that's a different mentality of realizing that it's not all about you as a coach. And it's all about the athlete.” 13:05 “The beauty of being a strength coach is a lot of times the player will come down and come in and sit in my office and vent. Right? And you want them to have that ability. But you also don't want to be a sounding board for them to just complain about their coach, or complain about their contract, or complain about all these different things.” 24:40 “I also think it's important for young coaches, and I try to express this to my staff and to anyone I talk to, understand the history of your profession, and become an expert in that. And see who the giants are that we're all standing on their shoulders.” 28:38 “The best thing for me for football was starting to work with ice hockey because I never played competitive ice hockey. I had to learn the sport, and learn how to evaluate it, and learn what they're doing. And then I took that coach's eye and approached it with football, and it made my programming for football a lot better. So those kind of opportunities are just so valuable.” 32:23

In this episode, we hear from 40-year veteran strength and conditioning coach, Rock Gullickson. Rock shares his path from collegiate strength and conditioning to the National Football League (NFL), including how weight room conversations have changed over the years as well as his thoughts on growth in the field today. Listen in to hear Rock connect with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, on lessons and insights for an impactful coaching career. Connect with Rock via email at Rock-Ter79@hotmail.com| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I always liked the idea that you tell the guys, hey, we're going to help you get stronger. We are going to take you to levels that you haven't been before. We are going to push you. We are going to ask you to do things with a lot of energy and you need to bring that each day. And that you also have to have a willingness to work with us on your technique. And we'll film you. We'll watch you. We'll be right beside you. We'll motivate you. We'll encourage you.” 22:37 “More than ever, it's developing a relationship and an understanding and a trust that I'm taking it down this path. Because I want you to be bigger, faster, and stronger. I want you to be more healthy on the football field. I want you to be more explosive. I want you to run better.” 26:49 “For the young aspiring strength coach, I tell them that there's three things that go into your success. And number one is that you work hard at what you're doing and that people recognize that in you.” 38:24 “It's the it's the life lessons that you teach these young people. Because there's things that you have seen and done that, you should share it with these young people so that you teach them about life. And you teach them about their responsibilities and help them with their goals. But that's where the happiness comes.” 43:00

Take a deep dive into force plate research and trends with “Force Plate Coach”,  Dr. John McMahon from the University of Salford in England. In this episode, John discusses his path from Royal Marine Commando into strength and conditioning and biomechanics teaching and research. Listen in as John connects with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, on the past, present, and future of force plates in sport and the ways we can improve our testing and evaluation of athletes.   This episode mentions the following paper from NSCA’s Strength and Conditioning Journal:  McMahon, JJ, Suchomel, TJ; Lake, JP, and Comfort, P. Understanding the Key Phases of the Countermovement Jump Force-Time Curve, Strength and Conditioning Journal 40(4):  96-106, 2018     Find John on Instagram: @forceplatecoach, on Twitter: @ForcePlateCoach, and on YouTube: @ForcePlateCoach| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“Some more of your fast stretch shortening cycle tests, like the drop jump and the multi-rebound jumps, as well as the countermovement jump test, just to try and map the way in which practitioners would like to use their force plates with their athletes to get more of a holistic overview of what their neuromuscular status is at any given time.” 13:55 “So those two mechanisms were raised as red flag flags and in the effect sizes they were considered moderate to large changes in countermovement depth and body weight that we saw immediately post-match. Now, if we didn't have a force plate, we wouldn't know that those changes had occurred, or we would say is that the jump height was the same post-match.” 22:21 “And because we tend to use jump height as the key outcome variable that was displayed on the screen in the scoreboards. Those athletes will see that there's no improvement to their previous period. But if they're 5 kilos heavier that means that they've applied a greater impulse in total to their body center of mass.” 24:50 “I assessed the PhD student earlier this year that's effectively been involved in the British Army, saw a different regimen that they now use the isometric mid-thigh pull to inform the job roles that they can apply for when they commence their training, believe it or not. So they've got certain key performance indicators like, in terms of peak force relative to body mass, that people must be able to pull, or push I should say.” 49:41

This episode recaps one of the sessions from the 2022 NSCA Coaches Conference in San Antonio, TX. Head Coach and Assistant Athletic Director for Athletic Performance at the University of Texas, Donnie Maib, discusses “the Golden Connection” as it relates to working with rotational athletes. Tune in as Coach Maib shares stories with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, on lessons learned from a 27-year collegiate strength and conditioning career, including paths for aspiring coaching, being a good father and husband, and areas of the field he sees on the near horizon.     Find Donnie on Instagram: @donniemaib and on Twitter: @coachdonnie | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“For the Coaches Conference, the title of my talk is The Golden Connection, and over the years of just working with overhead athletes there. I have just found there's this connection between the shoulder and the hip.” 8:12 “I think that takes a lot of listening, really listening. Then being able to ask the right questions with that coach. Then if you are put on the spot, how do you how do you respond in a way that's not knee jerk or defensive? Where you can actually walk out of that room and actually have won their trust over versus erode that trust.” 14:59 “You need to find somebody who's got the core value that values you have, because if you're a better dad or better mom, you're a better coach. You are more compassionate. You are more understanding. You are more patient. If you can lead home really well, you can lead at work really well.” 19:24 “We need more strength coaches in administrative leadership roles in big organizations.” 27:35 “It's been more evolutionary, not revolutionary. So small changes over time, educating, being patient, understanding, giving a little bit more at the first, and then just being patient with the process, the frustration of that. So it does pay off. It does make a difference. And you're just, ultimately, you just want that 1% advantage over your competition. So that's what you've got to do to get there, but that's how it's changed us big time, just quantifying practice loads. It's been huge.” 31:44

This episode unites strength and conditioning perspectives across three continents. David Joyce and Dan Lewindon, the co-editors of High-Performance Training for Sports, discuss their new book, including the high-caliber list of expert contributors from around the world. Discussion centers on the expansion of performance environments to include new perspectives, and the increased need for professional collaboration to deliver maximally effective training programs. Learn about “Zombie Killers,” as Joyce and Lewindon share with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, in an episode that provides insight into everyday coaching practices.  Find David on Twitter: @DavidGJoyce | Find Dan on Twitter: @DanLewindon | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“A lot of textbooks were, and still are, written very academically, which is great and we need that. But what we wanted was like a user's guide and operating manual.” 7:38 “It's more about how do you set the right conditions, the right environment to influence change, have the right behaviors and language to really make a difference to your athlete, have the right ability to engage and work with stakeholders, either your own type of practitioners, S and C coaches, nutritionists, or across different disciplines.” 13:02 “But I think inevitably, for example, when I'm hiring people to work for me, technical skills are a given, aren't they? It is your ability to have the right behaviors, empathy, and feel for the environments you're in, and the ability to make a difference, often in my sport with limited contact time.” 20:38 “I think the value, as you describe, is gaining a generalist knowledge across all areas. I think it's really important because it enables you to have better conversations, as you've described, across different domains, disciplines, technical experts, which I think is really important. And inevitably, there will be wisdoms, hopefully, throughout the piece that add value to what you do day to day in whatever context you work in.” 25:31

Learn about pursuing strength and conditioning roles from father and son, Joe Kenn and Peter Kenn. Joe “Big House” Kenn brings perspectives on program leadership from over 35 years in the strength and conditioning profession. Joe’s son Peter, a recent graduate in the field and Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach at United States Military Academy West Point, shares his story of learning the profession from a young age with his dad coaching in the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and National Football League (NFL). Tune in to hear dinner table conversation, as Joe and Peter connect with NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, in an episode that bridges coaching generations.   Find Joe on Instagram: @bighousepower or Twitter: @bighousepower | Find Peter on Instagram: @peterkenn1 or Twitter: @peterkenn1 | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“If you don't start that process until you've already graduated from undergrad, well, yeah, you're probably going to be working for free until you're 24, 25, 26. If this is what you want to do, you have to get in early. And you have to get in often.” 16:50 “But I always said, want to do it your way? Go run your own program. You think you got what it takes? Go get a job. Run your own program. And then you can dictate the demands of what you think are right and wrong.” 33:08 “If we're going to run internship programs as coaches, well, if we have a job open up, we better at least be considering one of the guys that was just in our program. Because, if you're not considering one of your own interns, you probably don't have a very good program.” 36:55 “I think the communication style that you choose as a strength coach is probably going to be a culmination of all the different coaches you've heard speak. And you've pick and chose which dynamic is the best and which best matches your personality and what you're comfortable with moving forward.” 53:56 “But I would urge any new coach coming up to be around as many different coaches as you can possibly be, both in their office time and coaching time, to understand how they deal with certain situations and figure out where their voice needs to be. And if you don't have a voice, I'm not saying you can't be in this profession. But you better find one quick. Because it's going to be tough.” 55:13 “Go to practice. Meet the athlete where they're at. A lot of times, they're, oh, you just worry about us doing weights. You don't come-- the showing up at practice will do more for your weight program than how good a coach you are and how well you write a program.” 56:33

Mike Snowden, University of Alabama Men’s Basketball Strength Coach, talks to the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about having a genuine relationship with head sport coaches. Topics under discussion include building players into the program, creating buy-in, and embracing new and unique career opportunities. Find Mike on Instagram: @mike__snowden or Twitter: @Mike__Snowden | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I think a lot of single leg work is huge for those guys. And we spend a lot of time-- iso holds, different split squat variations. I think they look better, perform a little bit better, doing those, and gain a little more confidence doing those.” 14:45 “One of those things that I constantly harp on young coaches is be yourself. Don't feel like you need to be your favorite strength coach on Twitter, or Instagram. You know saying be yourself, coach within that, and do what's best for the student athletes that you get to work with.” 21:02 “Don't say no to an opportunity. Because you never know what that may turn into down the road, or how you meet somebody there that may help you out down the road or whatever.” 23:01 “I think the sports science route is also going to open a lot of opportunities, both in college and in the private setting, as far as having kind of like you look at it now, where you have those AT's with CSCS as almost like dual purpose roles.” 26:43

Matt Frakes, Director of Sports Nutrition at Notre Dame Athletics, and Bryan Doo, former Head Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Boston Celtics National Basketball Association (NBA) team and owner of Optimal Fitness, join as guests with the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon. Also returning is guest co-host Jon Jost, a 27-year veteran college strength and conditioning coach and the Team Sports Manager for Gatorade. This Gatorade Performance Partner Special Episode highlights the value of being an inclusive leader; the current level of support for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives across the performance community; and how to foster inclusivity within your programs. Find Matt on Twitter: @SuperiorFrakes or Instagram: @superiorfrakes | Find Bryan on Twitter: @bdoo22 or Instagram: @bdoostrength | Find Jon via email: jonathan.jost@pepsico.com | Find Jon on Twitter/Instagram/Facebook: | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes  “People say you have to meet them where they are but then bring them to where you want to go. As a leader, I think my vision is what needs to be seen, the responsibility of making the decisions and so forth. But also making sure that I see where they're coming from to help them, guide them, and see if they actually can get to that vision.” 2:53 “I have to get buy-in from the players. I have to get their trust. If they don't trust me, if they don't do it, we can't get anything done.” 11:19 “You've got to throw in sometimes in respect to their culture and their background those type of foods.” 19:50 “Life is really about relationships, and it doesn't matter what background someone else has. You can learn an awful lot from them. And they can enrich your life, and you can enrich their life.” 33:05 “Because it can't be seen as the elephant in the room. It has to be something that has to be seen as a standard that we address, and that we ensure that we are fitting. And it's just a normal thing that we are looking towards as far as that we have a part because we have a diverse team. So we need to have a diverse unit and diverse staff as well.” 1:06:02

Stephanie Mock, Assistant Athletic Director for Sports Performance at the University of Pittsburgh, talks to the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about growing a comprehensive sports performance program. Topics under discussion include tips for interviews, graduate assistantships, staff development, and the ongoing collaboration with academics to advance sport science initiatives at University of Pittsburgh. Find Stephanie on Instagram: @_mockstephanie_ or @pitt_sportsperformance | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I always try to tell the interns now, when you interview for a position, you never know who knows who. You may not be the right fit for that role in particular, but Susie Q could know Joe over here that needs this role, and you're the right fit for that. So never, ever go through an interview and end on bad terms.” 8:58 “I told my staff, one of our goals is, whatever sports or teams that you have, making it to one practice a week to showcase in their space and that you respect what they do.” 19:48 “And my job is to look at myself in the mirror as a head person and be like, "What are my strengths and weaknesses and how can I make my staff well-rounded based off of what I bring to the table?"” 39:12

Joe Siara, Manager of Peak Performance Programs for the New York Yankees Major League Baseball (MLB) team, joins NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, to discuss the path from Minor League Baseball Strength and Conditioning Coach to sport scientist. The discussion includes a recap of the 2021 Professional Baseball Strength and Conditioning Coaches Society (PBSCCS) Baseball Sport Science Virtual Clinic, an explanation of the Certified Performance and Sport Scientist™ (CPSS™) exam development process, and practical applications of technology across a variety of performance settings. Find Joe via Email: jsiara@yankees.com | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I think that the two big things are just the scalability of whatever you're wanting to do. So we work with the Major League team down to our Dominican League teams. And I think staff education, so making sure everyone is educated on the technology, how to use it, how we're going to give this information to the players. So we really try to put a big emphasis on building a sports science culture.” 4:36 “I think my number one thing that I've kind of realized is always stay curious. You know, you can be skeptical about stuff but always try to be learning.” 9:41 “So I think the less invasive we are with people in the future, the less invasive you can be, the simpler you can be with the athlete, the better. And I think that's kind of like where I said the biomechanics is kind of that next step. You've had all this statcast data, you see what the ball does, now as a pitcher or a hitter, what are your actual mechanics in game that's producing that result?” 14:19 “I think as schools and teams and people start to add performance science, I think getting that key leader in place first, having a true director of sports science, is going to kind of build the culture up.” 23:25

Christina Rasnake, Director of Sport Science and Analytics at the University of Delaware, talks to the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about the budding future of sport science in college athletics. Topics under discussion include the staffing of sport science initiatives, effective communication across departments, and how technology and wellness surveys can support actionable change in the coaching process.  Find Christina on Twitter: @Coach_Raz26 | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“I think having an understanding of different ways to measure power, power output through just jump mat, for instance, or a Vertec utilizing the metrics that you're collecting to use equations to give you power in watts is really easy to do. Most universities, D1 to D3 to NAIA to JUCO, they're going to have something there that you can measure jump height, even if it's a wall and a tape measure. You can make that work.” 8:30 “If I get a red flag from a student athlete and let's say their sleep is poor and their muscle soreness is really high, we can ask our athletic trainers to provide self-care information for the athlete on what they should be doing to help with their nicks and bruises.” 13:21 “I'm going to have about nine sport management majors that are going to assist me with the administration of our performance technology, assisting the strength and conditioning coaches and athletic trainers with providing self-care, as well, to our students, and to help me with dashboards. And yet again, I'm looking at it as an opportunity to help educate and build the field, grow the field, because it is young.” 15:00 “So a lot of what I took from it was understanding how to communicate to different people and different personalities. If I spoke to everybody on staff the same way, not everybody is going to hear me correctly or understand or take it the same way. So it really taught me to get to know the people around me.” 18:20

Joe Denk, Applied Sport Scientist and Strength and Conditioning Coach for Naval Special Warfare, talks to the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon, about immediate and actionable sports science data for tactical athletes. Topics under discussion include the dynamic of working with tactical athletes, how resiliency and recovery are connected, and how technology has enabled coaches the ability to implement training programs effectively from a distance. Find Joe via Email: denkjc@gmail.com| Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscsShow Notes“And I wanted to find a way to manage our measures, so to speak, to make data actionable in real-time. So the guys I'm coaching, how can I use the information and the analytics we're collecting to immediately help them and help me make better decisions as a coach.” 3:39 “So I came up with a system that allows us to combine some wellness data with some physiological readiness data to merge it together and to come up with the thresholds that we could deliver through an athlete management system so that they could actually get the recommendation in real-time on their application on their phone.” 4:07 “You don't have to generally tell these guys to work harder. You're often acting as a governor trying to help them preserve as much of that resiliency. Because our goal in tactical strength and conditioning is long term sustainment.” 8:38 “For us, we might be trying to get somebody to sustain high performance for 10, 15, 20, 25 years. And that's way different than what I think a lot of traditional team sport coaches are dealing with.” 8:59 “Still do something, still train, still have a meaningful training session where we can accomplish something and get the right stimulus we're looking for, but train appropriately.” 16:55 “. The end user themselves, the military member, needs to be able to have some ownership of his data so that he can make better behavioral changes. If we can show guys their own information, show guys their own data, I'm a firm believer guys will make better decisions. They'll drink less, they'll sleep more, they'll prioritize recovery to your point, or because they want to see better data trends. They're very excited about looking at their own information and their own analytics so we can create awareness around that.” 20:49