Politics with Michelle Grattan

The royal commission into the Northern Territory’s youth detention and child protection systems has had a shaky start. The Four Corners program that spurred the federal government into action has also raised questions about its previous knowledge of reports of abuse at the Don Dale detention centre. Chancellor of the University of Canberra Professor Tom Calma, who is co-chair of Reconciliation Australia and a Northern Territory Aboriginal elder, tells Michelle Grattan that there was “little to no interest” by the federal government and Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion into the numerous reports of abuse leading up to the Four Corners program. He says it was “pretty much swept under the carpet at the Northern Territory level” and that the Northern Territory government should not be co-sponsors of the royal commission. “You don’t get the opportunity to have an independent royal commission very often and to have one where one of the major defendants is going to have to be the Northern Territory government … in all consciousness they should just withdraw from the process and leave it up to the independent commissioners,” he says. Calma questions Scullion’s level of interest in his portfolio and calls for the appointment of a new minister. “His [Scullion’s] interest in Indigenous affairs has really got to be questioned - and why he doesn’t take note of the various reports that are out there, why he limits his consultation with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to a small handful of people who aren’t representative,” he says. “From an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspective our hand is extended to government. It’s not being embraced and that’s what’s got to change. And if that means we’ve got to change ministers to somebody who’s going to be much more responsive, who’s not going to have an attitude that consultation is about telling people what the government wants to achieve…the current minister is really not doing a good enough job.”

Tiernan Brady was the political director of the “yes” campaign during the Irish referendum on same-sex marriage. With the government pushing ahead with plans for a plebiscite on the issue, Brady is in Australia to help advise local marriage equality advocates. Brady tells Michelle Grattan one of the most important aspects of the Irish referendum was that they recognised that it should always be about “a real person”. “It shouldn’t be a set of angry debates and loud interviews where people shout at each other…what it needed to be was friendly conversations, engaging; much more about having conversations at the dinner table, on the street and in the supermarket than in Parliament or on ABC or on the radio,” he says.

Labor begins its next phase in opposition with bigger numbers in the parliament and with a new level of confidence as it confronts the government. Shadow Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation Jim Chalmers tells Michelle Grattan Labor has a pretty good record of “supporting what they can” of government savings measures. “The way I like to describe it is when it comes to the budget, you agree where you can and you disagree where you must…I’m someone who puts a lot of value in trying to find as many ways as we can to repair the budget bottom line,” he says.

By increasing their numbers within the government, the Nationals were the surprise success story of the election, with a very local campaign. Minister for Infrastructure and Transport and Victorian National Darren Chester tells Michelle Grattan the presidential style of campaigning that is becoming more prevalent in Australia doesn’t suit the Nationals. “We don’t necessarily benefit from that style of campaigning. That’s no criticism of our Coalition partners. It’s just that they tend to focus on the metropolitan seats where the leader of the day gets a lot of media coverage. Our media coverage and our profile comes through the local newspapers in small country towns, the local ABC or the local commercial television news service,” he says.

As a veteran of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years, former treasurer Wayne Swan is a politician with a great deal of experience with parliamentary instability. With the outcome of the election still uncertain, Swan tells Michelle Grattan Labor should approach the next period ahead in a very positive way. “We put [forward] a comprehensive agenda for inclusive growth. What you saw at this election was the defeat of the Abbott-Turnbull agenda of trickle-down economics,” he says. Swan says Malcolm Turnbull’s authority has been “shattered” and that he will find it very hard to assert any authority in his partyroom. “His glass jaw-shattering speech after midnight on election night I think effectively ended his authority not just in his party but I think in the country.” Swan says he wants to continue to speak about issues he is passionate about from the position of a backbencher rather than from the shadow cabinet. “I want to use my time as treasurer to add to critical national debates and speak about them in a much more open way than I would otherwise if I had some form of executive responsibility,” he says.

The election has plunged Australia into uncertainty and placed a question mark over the country for companies looking to invest. Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry CEO James Pearson tells Michelle Grattan that businesses are disappointed there isn’t a clear result and that policies that are pro-business will now be harder to get through parliament. “The call from business now is to get on with the job of leading and running the country and making decisions for the future,” he says.

Senator Nick Xenophon is the South Australian “vote magnet” making both the Coalition and Labor nervous, as he spreads his brand at this election. His probable success promises not just more Senate seats for the nascent party but a powerful role in the new Senate for its leader. Xenophon tells Michelle Grattan he believes that while governments have a mandate to introduce legislation, the Senate has a mandate to scrutinise. “I say that in the context that there are many hundreds of thousands of Australians that vote differently between the lower house and the upper house because under our Constitution, under our system of government, the Senate is there to represent the states. “It’s also there under its proportional representation system to be a bulwark against excesses of executive power,” he says.

Tony Abbott has been low key so far this election, spending much of his time campaigning in his own electorate, with some visits to MPs who invite him. Speaking with Michelle Grattan, he plays up being part of the team. He admits staunch Liberals have issues with the superannuation changes but says “the point I keep making to them is that we cannot avoid tough decisions”, and does not expect the policy to change after the election. On same-sex marriage he confirms that if the plebiscite was carried he would vote for the enabling legislation. By putting the question to the people “we’ve effectively said the people are sovereign on this matter rather than the parliament”.

The Greens, who already hold the seat of Melbourne, are making a big play for two nearby Labor-held seats – Batman, held by David Feeney, and Wills, where the popular Kelvin Thomson is retiring. Labor is especially worried about Batman, where Feeney’s failure to declare his A$2.3 million house added to his already embattled position. This week The Conversation spoke to Greens leader Richard Di Natale about the Greens' campaign and ambitions generally, including these two seats. Di Natale said that if there were a minority Labor government and the Greens were in a balance-of-power situation, he would still hope for an agreement, despite Labor ruling out such an alliance. He indicated the Greens would press for concessions on policy rather than seeking a ministry. The Conversation also interviewed the Greens candidate in Wills, Samantha Ratnam, and the Labor candidate Peter Khalil, as well as the Greens candidate for Batman Alex Bhathal. David Feeney declined an interview.

The battle for the Victorian seat of Indi is shaping up as a three-way contest. Independent Cathy McGowan is trying to fend off the former member Sophie Mirabella and the Nationals' Marty Corboy. McGowan tells Michelle Grattan the election will come down to preferences. “I’m hoping that the National Party people will consider giving me their second preference and I’m hoping that Liberal Party people … certainly the ones in Wodonga – don’t see their answer in the National Party and they will consider giving me their preferences,” she says. In this special election podcast, Michelle Grattan interviews McGowan, Corboy, as well as the Greens' candidate Jenny O'Connor and Labor’s Eric Kerr. Sophie Mirabella was unwilling to be interviewed.

The Labor Party has been driving a campaign bus from Cairns to Canberra. On Sunday night senator Sam Dastyari, leader of the “Bill Bus”, told supporters at a Canberra pub they had raised enough money to extend its journey through to Melbourne and would be leaving the next morning. After giving a speech to the faithful, Dastyari tells Michelle Grattan they have been getting a lot of local media in small towns and that the reception has been “quite positive”. “The irony of all this is what is old is new. And what we’re really doing is taking on board some really 1950s/1960s great Labor campaigns, great political campaigns. This is how we campaigned. And why did we campaign this way? Because people felt engaged, people felt like they were part of it. It helped tell a story,” he says. While warning Labor can’t afford to be complacent in any state or territory, Dastyari emphasises the importance of New South Wales and Queensland for Labor at this election. “In 2010, we lost a bunch of Queensland seats and in 2013, we lost a bunch of New South Wales seats. If we’re not picking up the bulk of the seats we need to win government out of New South Wales and Queensland, we will not be forming government.”

This is The Conversation’s first election podcast, where we visit the New South Wales seat of New England. The electorate is held by deputy prime minister and Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce, who is under challenge from former independent member Tony Windsor. Joyce predicts the government will “take a haircut” at the election, and talks about New England becoming a net exporter of renewable energy in future years. Windsor says if there was a hung parliament he would not go into an alliance, as he did with the Gillard government, and is coy about where his vote would end up. 

In response to the government’s pre-election budget, Labor’s Shadow Assistant Treasurer Andrew Leigh, a former professor of economics, describes an alternative economic plan. Leigh tells Michelle Grattan that a Labor government would have delivered a budget that faced down Australia’s big economic challenges. “They include declining living standards: income per capita in real net terms has declined 4% since the government came to office; flagging innovation, which has seen too few Australian firms develop ‘new to the world’ innovations; and rising inequality where the gap between rich and poor now is as high as it’s been in three-quarters of a century,” he says.

On the cusp of calling the election, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull sat down with Michelle Grattan to talk about the budget. When the discussion turned to political trust, Turnbull said it’s critical to be very upfront about issues, to explain what the problems are, and to explain how you propose to resolve them. “I think there is a gotcha culture in the media and perhaps in the political discourse overall where, for example, any change in policy is seen as a backflip or an admission of failure.”

Sleep is at a premium in Canberra this week. Finance Minister Mathias Cormann is one of those doing the post-budget heavy lifting, with 22 media interviews on Wednesday. He sat down with Michelle Grattan to discuss the government’s long-term economic plan.