RunnersConnect Run to the Top Podcast

Many runners face constant negative mental battle when the run starts to get hard.  If you are frequently struggling with negative thoughts, there is a way to win the mental battle. Dr. Jacob Cooper has the answers. Jacob breaks down exactly what you need to do and exactly when you need to do it, to convert your self-talk that’s telling you to quit, to an ally that lets the real you triumph. So if you want to perform better at running, or really at anything in life that's challenging, keep listening and be ready to apply Dr Cooper's techniques, and finally win the negative mental battle when running hard. Jacob is a clinical sport psychologist who serves as the director of sport psychology at Appalachian State University in Western North Carolina. A former college athlete himself, he has worked with professional and amateur athletes, Olympians, and Paralympians.  He has an extensive background in mental health and how it ties to performance.  Jacob has developed a style of working with athletes that focuses on them holistically, with the goal of performance optimization in the pursuit of excellence.  Jacob Cooper Ph.D. - Full Bio Dr. Cooper is a clinical sport psychologist who serves as the director of sport psychology at Appalachian State University in addition to his own private practice serving professional and amateur athletes. He is a member of the United States Olympic & Paralympic athlete mental health registry, which consists of a selected group of specialized sports psychologists who are thoroughly vetted by the USOPC and then made available to current U.S. Olympians & Paralympians. As a former collegiate offensive lineman turned amateur triathlete and runner (Hello Clydesdale Division!), Jacob has worked with athletes at the Olympic, Professional, and Division-1 level over the course of his career. As a sport psychologist, Dr. Cooper brings an extensive background in mental health and performance enhancement. To this end, he has developed a style of working with athletes that focuses on them holistically, across the spectrum of future-oriented performance optimization, current personal barriers/stressors, as well as more significant mental health issues that can inevitably show up in the pursuit of excellence.  As a doctoral student at Boston University, he completed clinical practicums within a variety of settings, including the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), the Federal Bureau of Prisons system (BOP) along with multiple D1 college sport medicine teams as a performance consultant. Additionally, he has published scholarly articles and cultivated a unique approach to working with athletes and teams that integrates the latest research, evidence-based strategies, and technology to help them reach their goals.  In addition to high performance populations, he has a unique background and training in the areas of rural mental health, trauma recovery, serving low help-seeking populations, and military psychology. He has provided performance optimization for military personnel prior to their deployments as well as counseling for veterans transitioning back to civilian life throughout Western North Carolina, Indiana, and Boston.  Dr. Jacob Cooper- Ph.D. Clinical Sport Psychologist.  Director of Sport Psychology Services at Appalachian State University Licensed Clinical Psychologist & Health Service Provider (HSP) U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Sport Psychology Registry Member   Education Background: B.A.- (Psychology) Taylor University (Indiana)- 4 year scholarship athlete & team captain (Football) Dual Masters Degree- Ball State University (Indiana) M.S.- Sport and Performance Psychology M.A.- Clinical Psychology PhD- Counseling Psychology (Sport and Performance Track)- Boston University Matched Clinical Residency - Charles George Veterans Hospital - Asheville North Carolina.  Questions Jacob is asked:    3:59 I first found out about you from an Instagram post that the folks at ZAP posted. You were working with the elites at ZAP helping them build some mental strength. Can you tell me a little bit about how you worked with them?   5:03 How do elite and regular runners find motivation and purpose when a lot of races have been taken off the board?   6:19 Maybe this pandemic is a silver lining or maybe it’s a gift because we can look at our running in a different way because we’re all going to get slower as we age and performance is a huge part of why we do it, at least for some people, but once you take those PRs and the clock away, why do we run? That’s got to be the most important thing, right?   7:28 We always talk about, “I want to get mentally tough,” because clearly it’s not just our bodies. We can train our bodies to do certain things but if the brain is not onboard, the train’s not going to get all the way to the station. So how do we train our brain to be mentally tougher when things get hard?   8:30 I’m going to use myself as an example. When I’m running really hard or trying for a specific goal, I have the devil and the angel on my shoulder. I have the voice saying, “Go, go, go. You can do this.” And then I have a very, very sweet devil saying, “Everybody still loves you no matter what you run. You can slow down. This is really hard.” So I’m fighting these two opposing things that are 100% me and I really want to tell the devil to shut up and I really want to keep moving hard. How do I do that?   11:30 So the feelings come and we’re supposed to say, “Oh hello, feeling,” and let it go on its way. Is that what we’re supposed to be doing when we’re trying to run that 400 meter repeat really hard?   12:43 Can you give us a few examples of mental tools that we can use? What’s in the toolbox?   14:37 What is radical acceptance in your RISE model?   16:32 What does the I in RISE mean?   23:50 What does the S in RISE mean?   25:23 Do you have any hints for people who don’t know what their optimal performance cues are?   26:18 When I’m running well in a race or in a group setting, I definitely lock on the dude in front of me. I’m laser focused on him and I pretend that I have a rope attached to him and I pretend that he’s pulling me. And I just link up to him like a train like I am not letting this person go. It works for me.   27:13 What does the E in RISE stand for?   29:06 Let’s talk about the difference between psychology of teams and the psychology of athletes that are in an individual sport. Can you address that a little bit? Or is it the same just on a different level? Are we all talking to ourselves like we would talk to a bunch of people?   31:58 What about teams of runners? What about groups of runners where they’re obviously not always running the same races but they train together? They are in a team environment where they eat, sleep, and work out together and it’s been proven that we work differently in a group setting. Can you talk about that?   33:31 Especially with the pandemic, we’re seeing more and more runners find support, find a tribe, find a group of people online that they haven’t been able to find before, and a lot of people are finding it incredibly helpful. Especially runners are typically Type A, loner, data nerds (or maybe I'm just speaking for myself!), but a group setting isn’t typically comfortable for people who love to spend hours alone running, so any advice for that lone runner who maybe shies away from a group?   35:48 You help athletes work on their mental health issues. And we think about elite runners especially as just having these super tough brains that are as tough as their bodies and they are able to do amazing things that the regular people can’t do. So we think that they are just some kind of machine when it comes to their minds but I suspect that you find some mental health issues. Can you talk a little bit about that?   39:36 People who drive themselves so hard to be excellent, they’re a specific breed of people and you look at them and you wonder if they did have some trauma. Why in the world are they pushing themselves to these extreme limits? Do you find that that is really the case that people that are just absolutely at the top of their game are more likely to have had some kind of trauma in their past?   41:58 One thing I really wanted to talk to you about is the whole concept of balance. When we are striving for something, whether it's athletics, a career, parenting, sacrifice is inevitable and balance is simply not possible (or desired).  How can we reach our goals without letting everything else fall apart?   45:21 What is next for you and what questions in sports psychology are you looking to get answered in the future?   Questions I ask everyone:   48:54 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   50:04 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   51:33 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Jacob:   “That ‘why’ is such a valuable thing and it’s very easy in athletics to sometimes lose touch with that.”   “I think that it’s helpful to have multiple fuel sources because there’s costs to them all.”   “Your attention is a muscle. It’s like a spotlight that allows you to shift to what matters most right now. I call these optimal performance cues or OPCs.”   “Anywhere that there’s pressure and stress, we’re all capable of that impacting us and manifesting in the form of some level of mental distress whether it’s just some symptoms of anxiety, depression, eating disorders, trauma, or it’s like a full blown chronic disorder and something like that.”   “There’s going to be times and seasons of life that feel unbalanced. But I believe that in every season of life it is possible and worthwhile to live in a way that reflects our values.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Leave a space for libsyn link   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: ZAP Endurance Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Jacob on: dr.coopercc@gmail.com Instagram Running with Heart We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

How many marathon runners have acute kidney damage after they cross the finish line? According to a Yale University study, the answer is a shocking 55%. So if you’ve ever run a marathon, the odds are slightly better than 50% that this has happened to you.  But don’t worry. The damage tends to be temporary, resolving itself after a few days. So we heal, get stronger, and move on. But what if something goes wrong? Dr. Sherry Mansour and Dr. F. Perry Wilson are kidney doctors or nephrologists at Yale, and they share their expertise on running and your kidneys. Dr. Mansour actually led the research on marathon runners and kidney research. They talk to Coach Claire about who is susceptible to acute kidney damage from running, what we can do about it, and what we still need to learn.   They also discuss ibuprofen which can cause kidney issues, and how it can be used safely by runners. They also delve into kidney stones. If you’ve ever had one, you know they are extremely painful. They cover how to minimize the risk of kidney stones and what precautions kidney stone sufferers need to take when running long distances. If you are a runner with kidneys, this is one conversation you don't want to miss! Dr. Sherry Mansour grew up and attended medical school in New York. She graduated in 2010 and received the Highest Academic Achievement Award. She was elected valedictorian of her class and was also inducted into the Psi Sigma Alpha National Osteopathic Scholastic Honor Society. She went on to complete residency training in Internal Medicine at Stony Brook University Medical Center, where she was chosen as chief medical resident. She was inducted into the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society, Stony Brook Chapter in 2012. She then joined Yale New Haven Hospital in 2014 as a Clinical Research Nephrology fellow. She also completed her Master of Science from the Yale School of Public Health in 2019 with a focus on Chronic Disease Epidemiology. Since her arrival at Yale, Dr. Mansour has been working on identifying novel repair biomarkers in blood and urine to better predict long-term kidney and heart disease outcomes after AKI, and improve overall patient care. Her K-23 proposal is focused on understanding the role of a vessel repair pathway, known as the Angiopoietin pathway, in graft outcomes after deceased donor kidney transplantation.   A link to Dr. Mansour’s full biography including links to her research and publications is: Yale Medicine Profile - Dr Sherry Mansour   Dr. Wilson grew up in Connecticut, before attending Harvard College where he graduated with honors in biochemistry. He then attended medical school at Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons, before completing his internship, residency, and fellowship at the University of Pennsylvania. In 2012, he received a Masters degree in Clinical Epidemiology, which has informed his research ever since. At Yale since 2014, his goal is using patient-level data and advanced analytics to personalize medicine to each individual patient. He is the creator of the popular online course "Understanding Medical Research: Your Facebook Friend Is Wrong" on the Coursera platform. A link to Dr. Mansour’s full biography including links to his research and publications is: Yale Medicine Profile - Dr F Perry Wilson   Questions Dr. Mansour and Dr. Wilson are asked:    6:33 Dr Mansour, you did a study a couple years ago at Yale that studied the effects of marathon running on the kidneys.  Can you explain how the study was conducted and what you found?   7:50 So marathon runners have markers like people in the ICU. That sounds horrible. Should we be worried?   8:31 Why do runners suffer from Acute Kidney Injury? Is it unique to running? Do swimmers suffer from this too?   9:23 Sherry, you said that you just run for fitness, so I assumed you would be a marathon runner since you studied the effects of marathon running on kidneys. Can you tell me why you chose to study marathon runners?   10:38 Perry, are you a marathon runner?   10:48 Perry, what questions do you have when it comes to kidneys and running? Have you experienced dehydration? Have you tested your own urine after a race?   12:13 What role does dehydration, your sweat rate, and sodium play into the types of injuries that the kidneys have after endurance racing?   14:28 It’s very difficult and actually not advised to drink the same amount of fluid that you actually lose during a race. What kind of advice would you give for somebody who says, “I know I sweat a lot. How much do I drink? How much salt do I put in my water?” Are these questions that you’ve been able to figure out yet?   16:28 Runners, especially older runners, worry about salt because their doctors say they shouldn’t intake a lot of salt if they have high blood pressure. Or if they have other kidney problems, they might have been advised to be on a low salt diet. How does that play into while you’re exercising? Should you continue to not consume much salt just because you’re supposed to be on a low salt diet?   17:46 Runners hear a lot about ibuprofen. A lot of people call it Vitamin I and take it when they’re feeling sore. Some people even take it before a race so they won’t feel sore, and we as coaches try to advise against this. Can you talk about the link between ibuprofen and kidney injury?   22:08 One of the reasons I wanted to have both of you on the show is because I recently suffered from a kidney stone, something I haven't talked about until today. I’m a healthy, athletic person and did not expect it. It was the worst pain of my life and as an athlete, I'm struggling to find good advice for hydration for kidney stone sufferers.  Perry,  can you give me some advice?   25:00 Through my research I’ve found that kidney stones are fairly common. Is that correct?   25:16 What do kidney stone sufferers have to do as far as exercise goes? I’m absolutely dehydrated at the end of a marathon. Is that more dangerous for me than it would be for someone who doesn’t have a kidney stone history?   26:59 I haven’t heard of people talking about how endurance runners and kidney stones interrelates at all, so I think there’s a lot of people out there that are hungry for this advice. Like I said, that’s why I want to have you guys on the show. So we can still run, we can still get a little dehydrated, but our risk is going to be a little higher is what you’re saying?   28:21 I think most runners now take Tylenol instead of ibuprofen, which hurts our liver instead of our kidneys. There’s also some evidence that Tylenol actually affects your brain and makes your perception of effort go down. So any time there’s something like that, runners are like, “Give it to me. Give it to me.”   29:25 Acute Kidney Injury from marathon running is typically temporary.  When do we have to worry that something could be wrong and damage could become chronic?   31:17 Have you looked at people who you measured right after the race and then looked at them a few days later to see if the damage was resolved?   32:15 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   33:41 Where can listeners connect with you?   34:12 Do you know why students at Yale aren’t allowed to run outside?   Quotes by Dr. Mansour and Dr. Wilson:   “This urine really we see in the hospital all the time when patients are in the ICU when their blood pressure is really low so we didn’t think that we would see something similar in runners but that was sort of the main finding that kind of surprised us.” (Dr. Mansour)   “I wish I were a runner. Every time I do studies with marathon runners, they’re so inspiring, they’re so dedicated. It’s really a great crowd to be around, but I’m just not like that. I don’t have the stamina.” (Dr. Mansour)   “There might not be that much of a correlation between how you feel and what’s going on in your kidneys because I was convinced I was going to see the most terrible stuff based on how I was feeling at the end of that race and my kidneys kind of shrugged it off.” (Dr. Wilson)   “A kidney stone is painful but it isn’t going to kill you either, so you have to think about the benefits.” (Dr. Wilson) Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Leave a space for libsyn link   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Article: Marathons and Kidney Damage: What Runners Should Know Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Drs. Mansour and Wilson on:   Dr. Mansour on Twitter Dr. F Perry Wilson on Twitter We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

When you’re running hard, pushing yourself to extremes, which do you think is the more limiting factor, your body or your brain? Alex Hutchinson has done extensive research on exactly that question.    The Toronto-based author and journalist focuses on the science of endurance and fitness. You may know him from his book ENDURE: Mind, Body, and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance or from Outside magazine where he’s a contributing editor and writes the Sweat Science column.    Alex believes that our limits are elastic, stretchable, and as of yet, undefined. He and Coach Claire discuss those limits, and also tackle hydration, fueling, carbohydrates, strength training, aging and more.  And just for fun, they also get into the science of why Coach Claire loves an out-and-back course way more than a loop!   Alex also writes the Jockology column for The Globe and Mail, and his writing has appeared in Canadian Running magazine, Popular Mechanics (where he earned a National Magazine Award for his energy reporting), the New York Times, and he was a Runner’s World columnist from 2012 to 2017. Prior to ENDURE, Alex wrote a practical guide to the science of fitness called Which Comes First, Cardio or Weights? Fitness Myths, Training Truths, and Other Surprising Discoveries from the Science of Exercise, which was published in 2011. He is also the author of the 2009 book, Big Ideas: 100 Modern Inventions That Have Transformed Our World.  Alex started out as a physicist, with a Ph.D. from the University of Cambridge, followed by a few years as a postdoctoral researcher with the U.S. National Security Agency, working on quantum computing and nanomechanics. During that time, he competed as a middle- and long-distance runner for the Canadian national team, mostly as a miler but also dabbling in cross-country and even a bit of mountain running. He still runs most days, enjoys the rigors of hard training, and occasionally races, but hates to think of how he’d do on an undergraduate physics exam! Alex’s best-selling book Endure has a forward written by Malcolm Gladwell, another famous Canadian runner and writer, and the updated version is now out in paperback. Questions Alex is asked:    3:34 You are an author and a journalist, but you really seem like a scientist at heart.  How did you get into writing about fitness and endurance sports?   5:22 What fascinates you most about how the body works when exercising?   6:10 Your book Endure, if you could really sum it up, I would say that it is trying to discover whether it’s the body or the brain that’s mostly the limiting factor when you’re trying to go to extremes but it’s clear that it’s a mix of the two. You can’t say, “Oh, it’s just the brain” or “It’s just the body.” Can you talk a little bit more about how they’re interrelated and what we are finding out?   7:41 Tim Noakes is a South African scientist that has been very controversial. He’s written a lot of things that turned out to be totally true and then he’s written a bunch of things that maybe people have not found to be true. Can you talk a little bit about the controversy, both the good and bad things that Tim Noakes has contributed?   10:35 I would love to distill the lessons that you’ve learned so far about things that can help runners do better. The two main topics I would love to get into are hydration and fueling. Let’s talk about hydration specifically for the marathon. Hydration needs are different for every type of body. Are there any rules of thumb that recreational runners should think about when coming up with a hydration plan for the marathon?   15:25 ‘Drink to thirst’ is starting to become more popular but there are some populations that their thirst isn’t reliable. I’ve heard that as you age, your sense of thirst is not as strong. Have you heard that as well?   18:05 We could talk about fueling during the race or we could talk about nutrition in general, but what I have found is that human studies are just notoriously bad when it comes to nutrition because we’re not rats and we can’t put humans in cages and measure everything. So what would you say are the limitations to studying nutrition on humans?   23:53 Let’s get into the great carbohydrate debate. As I often tell people, what’s frustrating about the word carbohydrate is that lentils, lollipops, and lumber are all carbohydrate. And if you say do eat carbohydrates or don’t eat carbohydrates, clearly those three things are processed differently in your body. First of all, why do we lump carbohydrate? It’s an absolutely massive category of food and clearly our body treats it differently. Carbohydrate is the preferred fuel of the brain. It’s the preferred fuel of the muscles. So why isn’t everybody on the carbohydrate train?   25:35 Sugar or simple carbohydrate is bad if you’re not exercising but it’s exactly what you need if you are trying to run a fast marathon.   27:29 A keto diet could be exactly what an ultramarathoner would want to do. They’re not so concerned about ultimate speed; they’re concerned about eating all the time. Isn't that what they say about ultras is that it’s not really a running race; it’s an eating race?   28:58 What’s the point of all this science if the answer is always “It depends?”    30:22 Let's talk about strength training. What is the minimum effective dose for a runner who is highly active and competitive but not at the elite level?     34:36 What is the minimum effective dose of strength training for somebody who is actively training to be competitive in a race but still at a sub-elite level?   40:10 I think a lot of what we attribute to normal aging is actually more of lack of activity, and all the decline is mostly for the couch potatoes, the more sedentary people, and we runners think that maybe we’re immune to all of that stuff. Would you agree a little bit with that?   44:12 You recently wrote an interesting article about the science of finish lines or teleoanticipation and you related it to not knowing when the pandemic will end.  Can you explain?     47:46 I like out and backs better than loops because I know what to expect on the way back. There’s science that proves it, right?   49:28 The brain loves knowing what to expect and it predicts what’s going to happen whether it’s right or wrong, right?   49:42 What questions are left unanswered? What kind of science are you looking forward to in the future?   51:33 I think everybody wants to figure out how to make their brains stronger, not just in running but in life and dealing with little kids. Questions I ask everyone:   52:22 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   53:32 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   53:58 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Alex:   “For every situation that you think of the answer is both. The answer is “Yes.” It’s just like nature and nurture. The answer is your fate is 100% nature and it’s 100% nurture, and your physical performance is 100% your body and 100% your brain.”   “If you look at the list right now of the top 100 men’s marathon times ever run, 98 of them have been run by Kenyan or Ethiopian marathoners so if they’re doing something wrong, I want to do it wrong like they’re doing it because they’re pretty successful. And if  you look at the data, in both cases they’re getting more than 60% of their calories throughout the day from carbohydrates. And for the Kenyans, apparently it’s more than 20% of their calories come from the added sugar that they put in their oatmeal and their tea. So is this healthy for a couch dwelling office worker in North America? Probably not. But if you want to run fast or if you’re training hard, sugar is not only like you can use it, but like you said, you need it.”   “There is some pretty interesting evidence showing that older runners like Masters runners get a much larger and more immediate benefit from weight training for their running than younger runners do because the younger runners have more muscle to spare.”   “Your body knows, even parts of your body that you wouldn’t think know exactly where the finish line is.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Leave a space for libsyn link   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Endure: Mind, Body, and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance Alex Hutchinson | Outside Online Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Alex on:   Twitter Facebook We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

Kim Clark’s 110,000 Instagram followers know her as Track Club Babe. Kim microblogs daily offering inspiration, encouragement, and rock-solid training advice learned over years of running. Fun note: The Run to the Top was the very first running podcast she listened to! Kim ran her first marathon in high school. It was a six-hour disaster but she survived. Years later, in her late 20s, Kim decided to train seriously for another marathon and record her journey. Today she has a 3:11 PR and a massive following of runners. Kim is a former human rights lawyer turned commercial real estate agent in her hometown of San Diego, CA, who creates her social content each evening. She’s done a ton of research throughout her running career and has of course had her ups and downs and is happy to teach and share her positivity with her online community. In this episode, Kim shares her story along with some great running knowledge including what she eats to fuel and recover, training mistakes she’s made, over-training, and her thoughts on weight loss as it pertains to runners. Enjoy listening to running influencer @trackclubbabe!   Questions Kim is asked:    3:42 When I invited you to be on the show, you said the sweetest thing about how this was a full circle moment for you.  Can you explain?   4:49 You chopped almost three hours off your marathon time. Tell us about your journey.   7:59 What made you want to start a blog and give yourself the nickname Track Club Babe?    9:45 What were some of your early training mistakes?   12:57 What do you eat now before running?    14:08 You have a really big following on Instagram and you give training advice and things that work for you that people just absolutely eat up. What do you get asked about the most?   15:34 Your running journey hasn’t exactly been perfectly smooth so I would love to hear about some of the times you’ve had plateaus and you broke through them.   20:14 Results are addictive when you get big PRs. You just think, “Well, if I just do a little bit more… “ But clearly there’s a breaking point.   26:26 One post of yours I noticed recently was about weight loss to get faster.  Can we talk about this?   30:37 I think it’s super helpful to spread that message that thinner is not faster so I’m really glad we’re talking about that.   32:57 Let’s talk about food. What’s your favorite recovery food? What do you like to fuel up on when you’re in marathon training?   33:53 With your Instagram following being so big and working on your blog, are you still working as a full-time realtor as well?   35:25 What’s it like during COVID with no races for you?   37:01 How did you get through all the mental baggage of taking time off from running?   39:11 What’s next for you? Questions I ask everyone:   42:36 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   43:20 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   43:55 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Kim:   “We all love to run and no matter why you’re running, whether it’s just for the joy of it or competitively, it makes it more fun when it feels a little bit more effortless and you can go a little bit longer and a little bit faster, and it just makes it more fun.”   “I think the internet’s an awesome place for just teaching you so much, and then just being connected with so many runners around the world helps so much to read from their experiences, learn from them.”   “I figured out how to qualify for Boston and I figured out training for me. The key for every person is just figuring out what is going to connect for you and your body and for where you’re at.”   “There’s so many things that you can be doing that have nothing to do with weight that are going to move the needle on your speed, and that’s what we should be focusing on and not just being so obsessed with weight, which honestly, if you want to try to be frail and run fast; that’s not going to work either. You want to be under-fueled and try to run fast; that’s not going to help you.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Leave a space for libsyn link   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Kim on:   Instagram We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

What is it with runners and knees? If you run, you’ve heard “I used to run but it hurts my knees.” Although running is not inherently bad for your knees and staying active helps keep your knees healthy, a lot of runners eventually stop running because it hurts their knees too much.  Older runners, especially men, have to be particularly diligent in their strength training and stretching to avoid knee pain. So which is it? Does running cause people knee problems or are certain people predisposed to knee problems and would have issues regardless of whether they ran or not? To get to the bottom of this issue, Coach Claire speaks with Yale orthopedic surgeon, Dr. John Fulkerson. Dr. Fulkerson specializes in sports medicine and focuses on treating patella instability, which refers to the kneecap sliding in and out of position.  Dr. Fulkerson has been at Yale for over 40 years and he is leading the way in cutting edge technology to help those who suffer from debilitating knee issues. He talks about who’s most at risk for knee problems, what does and doesn’t work for prevention, the simple exercise that you can do today that can help keep your knees running smoothly and pain free, and why those of us who are fortunate enough to be runners should feel gratitude for our running, even on those bad run days! Dr. Fulkerson received his medical degree from and also completed his internship and residency at Yale University. His awards include a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Patellofemoral Foundation, a Sports Medicine Fellow Educator Award from the Department of Orthopedic Surgery at the University of Connecticut, Connecticut Orthopedist of the Year, the San Francisco Bay Area Lifetime Achievement Award, U.S. News and World Report Top Doctors, and the Wisdom House Community Service Award (with his wife Lynn). He founded the International Patellofemoral Study Group and the Patellofemoral Foundation. He has been head team physician for the NHL Hartford Whalers and Hartford Wolfpack, and a team physician for the U.S. Olympic Men’s Ice Hockey and Trinity College in Hartford. Dr. Fulkerson is known for orthopedic surgical innovation and has lectured worldwide. His publications include Disorders of the Patellofemoral Joint as well as many other chapters and monographs on the same subject. He also published the non-orthopedic book Thin Lines: A Vineyard Journey. Questions John is asked:  3:00 What every runner wants to know is, is running bad for your knees? 4:44 What other people besides older people need to be careful about running safely? You said that there are some people that maybe aren’t as well suited to running as far as their knees go at least, so who are we talking about here? 5:53 Your specialty is patella instability. Can you talk about exactly what that is and maybe give us a quick anatomy refresher here? 7:11 So patella instability is when the kneecap is actually moving around is what you’re saying? 7:42 The patella groove depth is just genetic, you get it or you don’t? It’s just how you were born? Or does it have anything to do with the activities we do? 8:24 Can you talk about some of the specific problems that runners face with their knees? Give us a definition of what’s runner’s knee? 10:30 You mentioned core instability, and that’s something as I coach I talk to my runners about is that often knee problems are actually a symptom. They’re not actually the problem. It’s something higher up in the chain. The hips, the core, or maybe in the lower part of the leg or the ankles, something like that. Can you talk about how the knee is related to everything else that’s going on in the chain? 11: 57 What are some other exercises besides jumping rope that you recommend that can help with people who complain about knee issues? 12:24 How do you stretch the knee? 13:47 Let’s say we have a runner who complains of knee problems. He is doing everything he’s supposed to be doing, all the stretches, all the strengthening, rock solid core, but still cannot get away from the knee pain. At what point is surgery the best option? 14:59 How does 3-D printing work as a diagnosis tool for knee pain?  16:10 This sounds like cutting-edge technology at Yale. Is this something that is spreading across the country? Are we going to be able to find this in Kansas? Or is this pretty limited at the moment? 17:44 When we’re talking about knees and joints in general and aging, the next thing that tends to come to mind is arthritis. And when I was researching this before interviewing you, I learned that there’s all sorts of different kinds of arthritis which I was not aware of. I thought arthritis was just arthritis but apparently it’s not. Can you talk about arthritis, especially in the knee, that runners are likely to encounter as they age? 20:07 My dad used to jog three miles every other day and he stopped in maybe his 60s because it hurt his knees too badly. Am I going to have the same fate? What do you think? 23:34 Let’s go back to cartilage. You mentioned the various things that happen to our cartilage as we age.  Is once the cartilage is gone, it’s gone, or it degenerates to a certain point? Does it regenerate? What exactly is going on with our cartilage? 25:00 How do we take good care of our cartilage? Is it just listening to your body and eating well? Is there something that we can do that will help prevent it if we happen to be prone to this? 26:47 As far as running shoes go, would you say nice, cushioned shoes or a nice drop? I would imagine you’re going to say no barefoot running. What would  you say about shoes? 26:41 I have a runner who is in his late 50s and has always had knee problems since I’ve been working with him, and his big thing is downhill running. Downhill running is really, really tough on him. Can you give some insight on why that is and maybe some advice about what he should do? 30:51 Are you saying we shouldn’t avoid downhill running if it doesn’t give us pain? 30:59 A lot of people say that most of the symptoms that we tend to associate with aging are actually more associated with inactivity, and I wanted to get your thoughts on that because I know a lot of people who are runners and their friends say to them, “Oh, well that’s just bad for your knees. Maybe you shouldn’t run.” What’s your take on that? Questions I ask everyone: 33:48 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give? 35:27 What is the greatest gift running has given you? 36:53 Where can listeners connect with you? 37:17 What are you working on next? Quotes by John: “I think that running is a natural activity for people. We wouldn’t be here if we weren’t descended from people who could run. I think it’s a survival skill. So I’d say for the majority of people, it’s very natural.” “Runner’s knee is a broad term. It’s basically any runner that has pain in their knee.” “Core stability is the first thing we recommend for many people with anterior knee pain, is just maximizing the core, working on the hip external rotators.” “One of the things I like to think about is running really is a privilege. For those of us who are able to run, I think it’s great. And we love it, and it’s so hard for people when they lose that ability for any of the reasons that we talked about. It is a privilege that we should enjoy if we can. And so I don’t have the feeling at all that people should not run to protect their joints or something like that. If everything lines up and they’re the right structure, then it’s not a problem. Enjoy it.” Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire Follow John on: John Fulkerson, MD We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

Even if you’ve never heard of Cortney White, you’ve probably seen her pictures. Cortney is one of the few female professional photographers snapping shots of elite runners at sporting events. What’s even more impressive is she is 100% self-taught. How good is she? Her photography is all over the internet and she works with Nike’s elite training group in Portland, Oregon, the Bowerman Track Club.    Cortney also lives in a van full time, previously used running as a means of staying fit for all her other athletic endeavors, and has had to combat a serious medical condition affecting her legs called compartment syndrome.    Cortney shares her interesting story with Coach Claire starting with her enjoyment of trail running in college while she studied business and IT, and how surgery on her legs resulted in a move to Portland and a “regular” job at a large accounting firm with running pushed to the back burner.    Cortney quickly realized she wanted to switch careers and seized an opportunity to work at a startup where she fell into the role of photographer for the brand.    Without any career aspirations or professional knowledge, Cortney photographed some friends and others in the Portland running community and fell in love with photography. Within a few months, she was able to quit her job and combine both passions by doing full-time sports photography, including work with the Bowerman Track Club. She quickly fell back into the running community, but this time from behind a lens.   Along with her personal story, Cortney talks about which athletes love to get their picture taken, who doesn’t, and how to get that perfect running picture, which makes for a fun and fascinating episode! Questions Cortney is asked:   2:31 I first learned about your work on Instagram. I follow a lot of professional athletes and I noticed that your name kept coming up in t photo credits. How did you start photographing runners at the elite level?   3:30 Are you completely self-taught?  You just sort of accidentally became a pro photographer?   4:15 When you knew this was going to be more than just a hobby, did you just like fall down the rabbit hole, just obsessed and learned everything you could? Is that how it happened?   5:16 Why running? You were a runner yourself, right?   6:31 I read that you had an injury that forced you to stop running. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?   8:34 You film the best athletes in the world and yet you can’t participate in this sport itself. You seem to have a good attitude about it but didn’t that just crush you?   9:42 How’s your injured hand now?   10:23 What is it like shooting the Bowerman Track Club?  Can you talk about what the logistics are like shooting athletes on the track?     13:16 Who on the Bowerman Track Club loves getting their picture taken and who doesn’t? Can you name some names?   14:06 Every runner knows this. It’s really tough to look great when you’re running really, really hard and you’re working hard. So I would love to hear your tips, both as a photographer and as a runner, how do you look good in running photographs? How?   16:16 I recall a lot of pictures that I’ve seen you take where you must be somewhere at like the 300m line, like the inside of the curve or something, and you have the trees in the background, and all the Bowerman babes are like all in flight at the same time. Their trailing leg is just back at… like they’re floating in air. And I’m just like, how does she do that?    16:55 How staged are some of your shots outside of the track? You do photo shoots with the athletes too, right? Walk me through some of those. What are those like?   18:39 I’m sure it’s interesting to see the athletes kind of out of their element when you’re doing photo shoots.   19:41 Let’s talk about how things have changed. Obviously 2020 with COVID and the race scene was extremely different last year. The Bowerman Track Club along with other professional groups put on races that were very secretive, very last minute. Can you talk about this scene there with some of those races that they put on? What was it like and how was it different from the previous year?   22:16 You’re the one that’s documenting this craziness that we’re going through. Pictures of their coach Shalane Flanagan wearing a mask, hugging the women at the end. These are pictures that are only going to be during this special, crazy period of time. They’re going to be iconic. Have you thought about that?   24:11 What is your favorite part of the job? What do you look forward to the most when you wake up every day?   25:06 One interesting thing about you is that you live in your van full time.  How did that happen and what do you love about van life?   28:12 You’re doing all your editing and everything in the back of the van? Is that how you do it?   29:50 What's next for you? Questions I ask everyone:   31:17 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   32:40 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   33:01 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Cortney:   “I absolutely love shooting runners. I love the stories and how it is such like an individual sport but then you apply it to this team aspect. I didn’t mean to end up in this but I’m so glad I did.”   “I actually prefer more of like the documentary event style photos because I love capturing real things that are happening, but of course, you’re going to have to, especially when it comes to product, or if an athlete just want some portraits for something, or if it’s for a different brand, you will have those staged photos.”   “I pretty much only shoot with natural light. I don’t do lighting setups or any of that. I really like it to feel as natural as possible.”   “It’s interesting to be living through this and thinking that in several years, we’re going to look back on this and these moments and realize that this was all a part of history.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Leave a space for libsyn link   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Portfolio - Cortney White Bowerman Track Club (bowermantc.com) PWURE: Data-based Sports Nutrition Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Cortney on:   Instagram We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

When ultramarathoner and running guru Danny Dreyer attended a tai chi class in 1999, a lightbulb went off. He believed the martial art’s principles of alignment, relaxation, and balance could allow him to finally make the next leap in training, and he wasn’t disappointed. After he began incorporating tai chi into his running, Danny not only witnessed dramatic improvements in his performance, but he also wasn’t getting injured anymore. In fact, he’d finish a run feeling exactly the same as when he started. Wishing to share his discovery, Danny founded ChiRunning through which he’s helped thousands of runners conquer injury and run more efficiently to reach new levels. A mindful and process-driven exercise rather than simply a means to an end, ChiRunning is also known as “moving meditation”, and it’s helped both recreational and elite athletes reduce impact for improved health, better performance, and more enjoyable running. Listen in as Danny discusses the benefits of ChiRunning as well as how to master the technique so many runners swear by today.

Tina Muir talks with Evie Serventi, a competitive runner and swimmer, the Deputy Editor of Running Fitness magazine in the UK and Sports Psychologist in this encore from 2017. In this episode, they talk about the importance of Mental Training and techniques for training our brains to help us run better and to not sabotage the effort we put into our physical conditioning. As you will hear, Evie and Tina have a wonderfully close relationship. and you will come away with actionable steps that will get your brain and body working more effectively together.

Running isn’t always forgiving. Between injuries, mental ruts, and the curve balls life sometimes throws at us, finding long term success and remaining engaged in the sport can be incredibly difficult, and Sinead Haughey talks with Jonathan Beverly about his book Run Strong, Stay Hungry, in this encore from 2017. The book reveals the habits and mentalities of more than 50 veteran runners who are still running fast decades after they started. A writer for Runner’s World, Podium Runner, and lifetime runner himself, Jonathan will give us a peek into the lives of runners like Bill Rodgers, Deena Kastor, and Joan Benoit Samuelson to show us what it takes to avoid burnout and achieve longevity in the sport – both physically and mentally. Quotes by Jonathan: “The physical burnout usually comes because of a lack of variety: doing the same thing and the same type of training over and over again.” “People overcomplicate it: always having a detailed training plan, hitting certain splits – it becomes obsessive…and when that happens, either you’re doing it all or you’re failing.” “Gary Allen talks about how a recipe has to be followed exactly: if you don’t have half a teaspoon of baking soda, things are going to blow up….But a chef knows that you put a little bit in and see what happens.”

Coach Tina interviews Jay Dicharry in 2017.  Jay is a renowned expert in biomechanics and physical therapy and is also the author of Anatomy for Runners. In this episode, he challenges us to reevaluate parts of our accepted, conventional training and running wisdom.  He does a great job of deconstructing clinically complex concepts into easily understandable ideas and examples. He breaks down things like Strength Training versus Power Training and the differences between joint limitation or blockage, shortened tissues, stiffness / sticky tissues, and dynamic mobility.  Our conversation covered a lot of ground and included many additional resources as noted by the links below. This may very well be an episode that you will want to listen to multiple times to explore these and evaluate what changes you may want to integrate into your own personal program. Here are some of the topics we’ll discuss today:  How biomechanic training can help Pre-Hab or prevent injuries. Biomechanics fact vs. fiction and the ongoing critical evaluation of prior assumptions. How to leverage strength training to improve your running while reducing your volume. How to evaluate a potential strength coach or options if you don’t have access to one. Risk / Reward balance of using different types of shoes for training / racing. Jay’s Mobility / soft-tissue work philosophy. The difference between ‘stretching’ and ‘dynamic mobility’ and which you should do before a run. Quotes by Jay: “There’s still the folks out there saying ‘Running is going to kill you and you need to stop’.” “I don’t like being the person paving the way; I like being the person helping people.” “ ‘What’s the ONE thing to do?” and the reality is that life isn’t that simple, right? If it was, then nobody would have problems.” “There is very good research out there to show that running does NOT make you strong. Running efficiency DOES improve when you improve the way that you carry yourself.” “At the end of the day, the runners who are serious find a way to get in the weight room. The runners I work with, the people I’ve introduced to this, I don’t know any of them who have STOPPED doing this at all even from a novice up to an elite level.” “The goal is to build a running-specific plan to RUN better, not just to lift more weight in the gym.” “If it’s not improving running economy and making your body more robust in terms of injury reduction, then you shouldn’t be doing it.” “If you’re a soccer player and you’re more accurate in shooting goal with your right foot, that’s fine, right? But, when you run both legs have to show up.” “I’m not looking to train a muscle; I’m looking to train a movement.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: UVA Speed Clinic Run To The Top podcast with Max Prokopy The American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Joe Friel's Blog Bryan Heiderscheit, PT, PhD Christopher M. Powers, PhD, PT, FACSM, FAPTA Irene Davis, PhD, PT, FAPTA, FACSM, FASB Reed Ferber PH.D., CAT(C), ATC: Director - Running Injury Clinic 2017 UVA Running Medicine Conference PubMed Website MedLine Home Page Jack Daniels's Run Smart Project Book: Anatomy For Runners Run To The Top podcast with Dr. Santos Run To The Top podcast with Drew Watts Saucony Stride Lab app for iOS Saucony Freedom Shoes Steve Magness Amazon Author Page Runner's World Article: How to Use a Lacrosse Ball for Recovery Carrom Balance Board Hyperice Vibration Ball Rep Lab - Jay's lab blog Tina’s Dynamic Warm-up Drills We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. If more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, it means I can reach out to and get through to the top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

Keira D’Amato is a world class runner who broke the American record in the 10 mile and clocked an incredible 2:22 at the Marathon Project this past December, but incredibly, she’s a full-time realtor and running is her side gig.  Keira, an unsponsored Realtor and mom of two from Virginia, unexpectedly placed 15th at the Olympic Marathon Trials last February, emerging onto the American running radar after a comeback mission that spanned over a decade. Keira was a rising star at D1 American University, even beating future Olympians Molly Huddle and Amy Cragg. Then an ankle injury and subsequent surgery seemingly ended her running career for good.  Switching gears, Keira started working at her mom’s real estate company, started a family, and called herself a “hobby jogger.” She started training hard again to fulfill her life-long dream of becoming an Olympian, continuing to get faster and faster even as the pandemic shut down the world and Tokyo postponed the Olympics. In 2020, Keira got an unofficial Olympic standard in the 5K, ran a blisteringly fast 4:33 mile, and in November, Keira became the fastest American woman in the 10 mile.  To cap off the year, Keira clocked a truly world-class time of 2:22 at the Marathon Project last December, coming in second place behind Sara Hall, a 12-minute improvement over her time at the trials. As remarkable as all that is, running is still a hobby for Keira. She remains a professional realtor, not a professional runner. She talks to Coach Claire about running at an elite level while being a full-time realtor and mom, what 2020 was like for her, including the Marathon Project and her PRs, and how she trains for both speed and distance. As a bonus, this fun and inspiring episode even includes some corny mom jokes! Enjoy!   Questions Keira is asked:   4:14 What an amazing year 2020 turned out for you in running!  After what you call a decade of "hobby jogging" you have emerged as one of the best American distance runners, breaking the American record in the 10 mile and clocking an incredible 2:22 at the Marathon Project in December.  Can you talk about what last year was like for you?   5:43 It’s easy to think that you just came out of nowhere, but you ran Division I in college, you were coached by Matt Centrowitz, even beating out a few future Olympians in races back then.  What were your plans for your running career back then?   7:06 I imagine it must be such a mind shift to think, “Okay, my life is headed in a certain direction,” and you get injured. “Well, my life is not going in that direction.” And then to get a second chance. Not many people get a second chance like you got.   9:39 You have become one of the distance moms. The field of American female distance runners right now is so deep, and most of them are moms which would be unheard of not that long ago. How do you feel that motherhood has intertwined with your running? Do you think there’s something to do with it that makes you a better runner?   11:34 When your kids were younger, did you do the running stroller thing?   12:46 Let’s talk about the Marathon Project last month. You had a massive PR and came in second place. What about your training said that “Hey, I can do this. I can get a sub-2:30. I can get close to 2:20.” What kind of workouts, what kind of things were going on in your mind that told you, “Yeah, I’m a contender?”   14:22 Did you have any thoughts of running out with Sara Hall and going for the American record at the time?   15:13 Not only did you kill it in the marathon but you got a new 5K PR and a mile PR this year. How does training for those shorter distances, or at least testing yourself at those shorter distances, how does that relate to your marathon, and what would you say to that 20-yr-old girl that you used to be that you’re pretty much beating all the time now?   17:57 Would your advice to somebody who is let’s say plateauing in the marathon be to do track work? What would be your number one tip to get a breakthrough like you had?   18:45 Speaking of your training, you are on Strava and your Strava feed is like a corny mom’s joke, so I would love to hear what’s your favorite corny mom joke?   20:16 We have something else in common besides running. You are a realtor. I’ve been a realtor for almost 19 years now so I can relate to that. You still work full time as a realtor and you’re not sponsored as a pro runner. Tell me about that.   22:35 That’s a great point. You think, “Oh, you’re an elite runner, you should just get signed and have running, running, running all over your life,” but the fact that you can be riskier because you have real estate as your income source, running isn’t about money for you.   23:58 I read somewhere that you do real estate negotiations while you’re on a run, on an easy run.   25:06 You said multiple times in this conversation that you are going to be an Olympian, so what’s next for you?   25:29 You’ve hit the Olympic standard in the 5K, right, but it was unofficial? Is that correct? Questions I ask everyone:   26:30 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   27:41 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   28:27 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Keira:   “I think through all the chaos, and all the hurt, and pain, and just everything that happened in the negative space in 2020, I really clung to running to be my hope, to be my good time, to be my goals.”   “It’s important to keep the mileage up and to make sure you’re getting your long runs and your tempo runs too, but I think just developing your speed. Like when I first did a marathon, I think that was like my 5K pace too, and then I’ve been able to drag my 5K pace down so much that now I feel really comfortable running marathon pace, so I think that that’s the key.”    “I live, I train, everything about me is elite athlete. If you look at my life, I have a very similar structured life to the elite athletes but just instead of taking as many naps or having some downtime and going on Netflix binges, I’m doing my real job.”   Take a Listen on Your Next Run Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Keira D’Amato – Stone Properties (stonepropertiesva.com) FlipBelt.com Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire   Follow Keira on:   Instagram We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!  

Nathan Martin just broke a 41-year-old record at the Marathon Project held this past December. He finished in 2:11:05, making him the fastest US born Black marathoner of all time. He placed ninth, beating out Olympians and professionals with far deeper pedigrees. In addition to being a super-fast runner, Nathan is also on a mission to give back and inspire others, especially the kids he coaches. Instead of leaving his high school coaching job to turn pro and join an elite training team, he decided to stay and continue training with his college coach Dante Ottolini at Spring Arbor University. In this episode, Nathan discusses how he first started running, the tragic deaths of both of his parents, and his unlikely path to record-breaking running success. He also shares his thoughts on why there are comparatively few American born Black runners in long distance running and how he sees that changing in the future. Lastly, he talks about his next goal which involves hopefully setting a huge PR! Nathan Martin was born in Chicago Heights, Illinois and raised in Three Rivers, Michigan. He started running Cross Country in Middle School after doing well in the gym class fitness test. He quickly discovered he had talent, and with the encouragement of others, kept with it. He was able to excel at the high school level, breaking three different school records and finishing runner-up at the MHSAA D2 state finals in the mile. At Spring Arbor University, Nathan majored in Recreation and Leisure Management with a minor in Computer Science. As a freshman, he came in underdeveloped as far as training goes. However, after a couple of years of hard work, his potential started to show. By the end of senior year, he became a National Champion in three different events and set the NAIA Marathon record.  Post college Nathan continued pursuing running to see how far his talents could take him, which ultimately led to an incredible opportunity to coach at the MHSAA D1 level, as well as substitute teaching in Jackson County. At first it was just a way to keep a flexible schedule, but he quickly fell in love with it and his and his coach’s new focus became how to make everything work together, which inspired them to create the Great Lakes Running Club.  Through this process, Nathan was still making huge gains in running, most notably the 2019 20k Championships where he finished runner up, and now, his finish at the 2020 Marathon Project where he finished 9th with a 2:11:05 putting him 49th on the all-time US Marathoner list and breaking a 41-year-old record set by Herman Atkins, making Nathan the fastest US Born Black Marathoner.  Questions Nathan is asked:   3:20 You made history at the Marathon Project on December 20th, by becoming the fastest US born Black man to run a marathon in 2:11:05, breaking a more than 40-year-old record.  What does that feel like and did you even know about the record before the race?   4:16 Can you give us a recap of the race in Arizona, how it went, what your strategy was, all the details?   5:36 There’s two sets of pace groups in that race, the 2:09 group and the 2:11 group. What made you not want to go ahead with the 2:09 group?   7:35 Easing up on your pace a little instead of staying with the 2:09 group left you out in no-man’s land for a little while, didn’t it?   8:22 You ended up in ninth place, which is obviously very impressive on such a fast course where so many guys went 2:09, so congratulations for that. It must have felt amazing to have such a PR and to crack the top 10.   9:28 I’d love to hear a little bit more about your back story. How did you first get into running and did you like it immediately?   11:15 You ran through high school and you ran in college, and you worked with a coach that certainly changed your life.  Can you tell us a little bit about your coach and that relationship?   12:31 Dante Ottolini is still your coach today, right?   12:36 During college you lost your parents to cancer. How did running help you get through those hard times?   14:32 It sounds like your team really had your back when you lost your parents. That’s amazing.   15:03 After college, you could have left Michigan to be a pro or train somewhere else, but you stayed and became a substitute teacher and high school coach.  Why did you make that decision?  What does coaching bring to your life?   16:36 It sounds like you get more out of coaching your athletes than they get from you.   16:50 Do you think you would ever consider turning pro?   19:21 Have you considered staying in Michigan and maybe joining Hansons-Brooks?   19:59 One thing that I wanted to ask you is do you have any insight as to why more Black Americans aren't involved in distance running?  Black Americans dominate track and field but are not as well represented in the longer distances.  Do you have any thoughts of why this is?   21:41 Why didn’t you switch to basketball or football or something like that?   22:28 As a coach, how do you keep kids motivated when the other sports come calling?   23:12 Obviously running, at least in the United States, is not as glamorous as the NFL or the NBA, so I think this is an issue all across the country no matter what race you’re from, so how do we get more people interested in running? And I don’t know the answer. I don’t know if you have any insight on that.   24:02 What was the reaction when you came home from Arizona with your athletes, people in town, your coach? What did they say to you?   24:58 What are you training for now? What’s coming up next?   25:38 The Olympics 10k standard is 28 minutes so that would be a big PR for you. What’s your PR right now?   26:16 What are some of the specific things that you would do to run the 10k in 28 minutes, or is that still a mystery?   27:01 Are you basically the fastest guy in town or do you have some good training partners that can help you out? Questions I ask everyone:   27:58 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   28:49 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   29:34 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Nathan:   “So I’m like, You know what? Hey, we need to be smart about this race. We’re looking to hit a huge PR. If we can stay with this 2:09 group, we’re going to do it but I need to protect myself and make sure I have a good day and don’t let others affect that.”   “Always, whatever I’m doing, I want to make sure that I’m connecting with people and finding ways to impact them. So if I did leave to a training group, it’d have to be more than just faster or to get to the Olympics type thing.”   “Most people enjoy hearing what they’re able to do and that’s definitely what I would try and make sure I do with my athletes.”   “You need people you can look towards. In one sense, I broke a record. Great for me. But in a whole ‘nother sense, it allows somebody to see somebody who’s achieved something and say, ‘You know what, that’s what I want to achieve. I think I can do that.’ And then they carve a path to find a way.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast:   Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community RunnersConnect Facebook page RunnersConnect Focus Classes email Coach Claire Use Promo Code RTTT for 20% off Sweaty Betty at www.sweatybetty.com/RTTT Follow Nathan on:   Instagram Nathan Martin’s Olympic Trials Countdown | Facebook We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!

Happy New Year! Did you resolve to lose weight this year? Running burns a ton of calories so it should be a great way to melt off the pounds, right? Well, maybe not. Dr. Kyle Flack, a weight-loss researcher from the University of Kentucky, conducts studies on how the body responds to exercise and how much you really need to work out to work off those extra pounds, and it turns out you need to work out a lot more than the current recommendations suggest. Dr. Flack was recently featured in a New York Times article on exercising to lose weight and he shares his research results and provides insights on why weight loss isn’t as simple as burning more calories than you take in. He explains how body chemistry can seemingly work against us, thwarting significant weight loss, especially for fitter people, and why it’s not uncommon for people to actually gain weight while training for a marathon. Through his studies, Dr. Flack has found that people overcompensate for the calories they’ve burned pretty consistently, and he shares what the average calorie overcompensation amount is and how much exercise time is required to overcome it to really drop pounds. He also talks about how long it takes to make exercise a habit, he compares strength training to aerobic exercise for weight loss potential, and also reveals whether it’s possible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. If your goal is to lose or maintain your weight through your running, this is definitely a must-listen-to episode! Kyle Flack grew up in a small town in Vermont where, as a 4-year starter on the varsity football team, earned All-State honors twice and won two state championships. He left to play college football at Ferrum College in Southwest Virginia, earning a BS in health sciences 4 years later. He continued his education at Virginia Tech in the Department of Human Nutrition, Foods, and Exercise, where he earned his PhD in 2014.  Upon beginning grad school, Kyle also turned over a new leaf in terms of his exercise routine, going from 280-pound power-lifting football player (who got winded walking upstairs) to a runner. He devoted an entire winter and spring to this newfound training, lost 40 pounds, and completed his first marathon, Vermont City Marathon in 2008.  From there he was addicted, running two marathons each year for the next 5 years throughout grad school and dropping another 30 pounds. Each marathon was a new learning experience, a new opportunity to get better, and always ended with the goal or running the next marathon faster!  After grad school, and after finally reaching that sub-3:30 goal (he did the Marshall University Marathon in 3:27) Kyle shifted his attention to triathlons, which he has been at since 2014. Kyle completed a Post-Doctoral research fellowship with the USDA in Grand Forks North Dakota from 2014 to 2017 and has since been an Assistant Professor at the University of Kentucky in the Department of Dietetics and Human Nutrition since 2017. Kyle is an RD (registered dietitian) and primarily focused on researching weight loss physiology, how exercise may affect eating behaviors, and how exercise can be more appropriately used for weight control.       Questions Kyle is asked:   4:52 You are a researcher at the University of Kentucky specializing in how exercise affects eating and weight loss.  And you don't just study it, you used running to lose weight yourself.  Can you share your experience?   7:27 You were already an athlete with football so it wasn’t like you were obese or overweight and just wanted to lose weight by running?   7:58 Let’s get into some weight loss science.  It seems that weight loss should be easy. It’s "calories in and calories out."  What makes it more complicated than that?   10:00 When you lose weight, you’re obviously lighter so there’s less of you to move around. Is that correct?   10:30 Why isn't exercise generally effective for weight loss?   11:37 Overcompensating for calorie expenditure due to exercise is not entirely all our fault. This is not entirely a willpower issue or something like that. Our body’s working against us. Is that correct?   14:28 What you’re saying is when you go for a great run and you get all these endorphins flowing, you’re feeling really good, the entire pan of brownies tastes even better, right?   15:15 Many athletes that I’ve coached have actually gained weight when they start training for a marathon. They are burning a ton of calories and for whatever reason instead of losing weight, they gain weight. How is that possible?   19:34 I did a calculator once to figure out how many calories I burned running a mile and it was something terrible like 56 calories, and I’m just like, “What! That’s not fair.” Why is our body doing this to us?   20:17 In a recent study you did, you and your team found that in order to lose fat, the participants in the study needed to burn 3000 extra calories per week.  Can you talk about this study?   21:52 In your recent study, were the participants moving less in their normal lives when they weren’t exercising? Were they slowing down?   23:27 The exercise you put the test participants through, was it just walking? Is that what you had them do?   23:51 Any other differences would you expect to find if you did the same study with athletes rather than obese, sedentary people?   25:01 Does the type of exercise matter?  How about duration, frequency, or intensity?   26:44 The results of your study show frequency doesn’t matter. That’s good news for the weekend warriors, right?   27:19 You’ve also done some studies about the reinforcement value of exercise and I’d love to hear your thoughts on how we can make exercise a habit that we can stick to.   33:27 You’re talking about a significant amount of exercise, five, six, seven hours a week for most people to get addicted to exercise?   34:11 One thing about exercise studies and nutrition studies, there’s some inherent difficulties in studying human beings because we’re not rats and you can’t put us in cages. So what kind of limitations did you find in some of your studies? What are the challenges that you find in this kind of work?   39:36 Nutrition labels, they don’t have to be perfectly accurate. I’ve heard that you can be 20% off on your nutrition label and it still be okay with the FDA. So calories in aren’t always perfect, right?   40:12 What about strength training?  How does that differ from cardio when it comes to weight loss,  hunger, the afterburn? We hear that when you strength train, muscles take more energy to sustain than fat does so you’re burning more just standing around if you have more muscle mass. Can you talk about that?   42:59 Can you gain muscle at the same time as lose fat? I’ve heard that that’s not always the case. Is that possible?   44:18 What questions are still unsolved and what kind of research are you looking to do in the future? Questions I ask everyone:   48:39 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   49:46 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   50:19 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Kyle:   “If you lose weight, we would expect you to decrease your total energy expenditure, but what’s really been found is that if you lose weight, you decrease it more than what we would anticipate.”   “We need to exercise more to overcome that obligatory 1000-calorie-a-week compensatory response so we can actually see useful weight loss. So that 150-minutes-a-week recommendation that we hear actually isn’t enough to overcome that compensatory response.”   “With aerobic exercise, you can put someone on, ‘You’re going to exercise at this heart rate for 30 minutes,’ and you can do that for everybody and they all have the same workout. But if you say, ‘Okay, you’re going to go to the gym and lift weights for an hour,’ that’s going to look completely different from one person to the next person in terms of muscle activation, what you’re lifting, how heavy, how intense.”   Take a Listen on Your Next Run Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast:   kyle.flack@uky.edu New York Times Article - Exercise for Weight Loss: Aim for 300 Minutes a Week Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community RunnersConnect Facebook page https://runnersconnect.net/focus/ RunnersConnect Focus Classes Use Promo Code RTTT for 20% off Sweaty Betty at www.sweatybetty.com/RTTT Follow Kyle on:   Kyle Flack | Human Environmental Sciences (uky.edu) We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!  

At age 75, legendary coach and Olympian Jeff Galloway is almost as famous for walking as he is for running. Jeff says his run-walk-run method of training enables people to run longer and faster with much less risk of injury, and his half a million followers agree.  In this episode, Jeff talks about how he developed his walk/run technique and how everyone from absolute beginners to the fastest runners can benefit from it. He also shares with Coach Claire how he’s getting more steps in while working from home, how runners can stay motivated during the pandemic, what his Magic Mile is and how to use it for training, and what he’s doing at age 75 to ensure he can keep running until age 100 and beyond. Not only is there a lot to be learned from Jeff in this interview, but he also has a new book out called Galloway’s 5K/10K Running, Training for Runners & Walkers. The book describes Jeff’s Run Walk Run method and how it can be used to reduce aches and pains and fatigue while improving race times. It includes training plans, easy-to-read advice on medical checkups, nutrition for runners, fat-burning workouts, choosing the right running shoes, how to stay motivated, and a race day checklist. The book is definitely a great tool for runners at any level! Jeff worked his way from being an average teenage runner to an Olympian. His book Galloway’s Book on Running is the best selling running book in North America. He also wrote columns for Runner's World for 20-plus years, he’s an international running and fitness speaker, and as a coach, has helped 400,000-plus average people train for their goals. His Run Walk Run marathon training program boasts an impressive 98% success rate.      Questions Jeff is asked:   3:35 At this point in your career, you are almost as famous for walking as you are for running!  Can you talk about what you love about walking in general and its benefits for runners?   9:09 How would you recommend all of us who are working from home get more transition time between sitting at our computers and running and get more steps in? How do we get our work done and still get in all our steps?   10:51 Maybe because we’re all stuck at home and the gyms are closed, I see more people in my neighborhood than ever out walking, out running, out doing things, people you’d never see before. So what advice would you give to someone just starting out?   14:58 Should runners of all levels use walking in their training and racing? What’s your opinion on intermediate-to-advanced runners?   16:12 I’m a steady runner. I run even splits no matter what, and in the last marathon that I was in, there was somebody next to me who was leapfrogging me. And he was running super fast and then he would walk, and then I’d pass him, and he’d run super fast and then he would walk. And this is at a sub-three-hour marathon pace, and so I was just like, “That is pretty impressive to see someone doing that,” because in order to get to the finish line in the same time as me, his run section would have to be significantly faster to make up for the walking. So I thought that was very interesting.   17:32 Is there a proper technique to walking or can you just go out and walk like you always do?   18:43 The walk in the run/walk method is not just a stroll; this is a walk with purpose?   19:42 Let's talk about the Magic Mile. What is so magic about it and how do you use it for training?   22:03 So you just go out, you run a mile as fast as you can, and then you pop it into a calculator. Is that it for the Magic Mile?   23:53 When I use the Magic Mile calculator on your site, my predicted marathon time is far slower than what I actually could run for the marathon.  Can you explain this?   25:21 My Magic Mile calculator result could just mean that I’m bad at short distances and better at long distances, right?   25:43 In a recent podcast, I asked leaders in the running community what they did to continue running for life, and I actually got somebody wanting to know what you do. They asked for you specifically, so I would love to hear your thoughts on how you’re going to keep running to 100 and beyond.   30:16 A lot of runners and walkers really look forward to having a race on their calendar, and with 2020 being as crazy as it has been, not all of us have those races on the calendar. How would you talk to those people who really get motivated by races when there aren’t any?   33:43 What is next for you?   Questions I ask everyone:   36:40 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   38:57 What is the greatest gift running has given you?   39:55 Where can listeners connect with you?   Quotes by Jeff:   “There are a lot of people that won’t start running unless you tell them, ‘Well, just walk. Give it a try.’ And then if they’re interested, I offer them a proven way to add small segments of jogging or shuffling in a 30-second to 60-second timeframe so that they gradually introduce the body to the running motion. And I found that almost anybody can get into running, get all the benefits, and not have aches and pains if they have the right Run Walk Run.”   “If you want to walk, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with walking. You honestly are not going to get the brain benefits that you get even from five seconds of running at a time.”   “If runners want to run faster in races, then it’s definitely a good idea to put the walk breaks in.”   “The whole thing about running as you get older is all based on what your body part can handle that’s getting irritated, and I call those weak links. We all have weak links and we have to be attentive to them, and at the first irritation of a weak link, you back off, you treat it, and you go on.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run   Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel Mentioned in this podcast: Jeff Galloway | The official site of Run-Walk-Run jfg@jeffgalloway.com Book: Galloway's 5K/10K Running, Training for Runners and Walkers Charge Running Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community RunnersConnect Facebook page claire@runnersconnect.net https://www.precisionhydration.com/ Follow Jeff on:   Facebook Instagram Twitter YouTube.com We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. The more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, the more I can reach out to and get top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you!  

Elevating American Distance Running: Ben Rosario  Ben Rosario is the head coach of the HOKA Northern Arizona Elite. His athletes have been wildly successful in recent years, with the most notable being Aliphine Tuliamuk's win at the 2020 US Olympic Trials. His athletes Stephanie Bruce and Kellyn Taylor also finished in the top ten of that race, and on the men's side, Scott Fauble, a 2:09 marathoner, came in 12th.   In this episode, Coach Claire talks to Ben about the Olympic Marathon Trials, focusing on how well his female athletes did, how HOKA NAZ treats female athletes, especially in light of the Nike Oregon Project, and why he thinks so many female runners are still posting PRs well into their 30s.  Ben also shares some great coaching advice, his training philosophy, and his insight into why so many world records have been posted during COVID.    At the time of this recording, Ben was preparing for The Marathon Project held on December 20. Coach Claire asks Ben for his predictions and will post the results here in the show notes following the race. Like many coaches, Ben started out as an accomplished runner himself as a member of the Hansons Brooks team and he competed in the Olympic Trials twice before turning to coaching full time.  In his six+ years with Northern Arizona Elite, Ben’s athletes have won U.S. National Titles in cross country and on the roads at 10k, the half marathon and the 25k, as well as New Zealand National Titles on the track and the roads.  HOKA NAZ Elite athletes have recorded 8 top-10 finishes at World Marathon Majors.The team has been represented at the World Cross Country Championships, the World Half Marathon Championships, and at the World Track and Field Championships.  His athletes have also competed at the European Athletics Championships, the Great Edinburgh International XC Meet, the NACAC Cross Country Championships, the NACAC Track Championships, the Pan American Cup Cross Country Meet and the Pan American Games.  In 2016, the team produced two sixth-place finishes at the Olympic Trials Marathon and two fourth-place finishes in the 10,000 meters at the Olympic Track and Field Trials. At the 2020 Olympic Marathon Trials, four HOKA NAZ Elite athletes posted top 20 finishes, including three in the top eight in the women’s race led by Aliphine Tuliamuk–the Trials Champion.    Questions Ben is asked: 4:19 2020 has been pretty crazy for everyone in the world but specifically for the team that you lead, Northern Arizona Elite. Let's go back in time to February when you were getting ready for the Olympic Marathon Trials in Atlanta. Can you take us back there and recap what you were thinking?   5:10 Atlanta is a pretty tough course with all the hills. Obviously that was not a problem for at least your female athletes.   5:28 Your athlete, Aliphine Tuliamuk, won the women's race and was planning to head to Tokyo when the world shut down. What was that like as her coach?   6:41 I would love to talk to you about Aliphine Tuliamuk’s recent announcement that she is pregnant and due in January. As her coach, I’m sure she came to you and said, “Hey, Ben, this is what I’m going to do.” What was that conversation like?    7:26 How tough was it keeping Aliphine’s pregnancy a secret?   8:33 You are quite experienced in elite mom runners. Several women on your team are moms and are still just killing it. I would love to talk about Kellyn Taylor, Stephanie Bruce. I would love to talk about Stephanie for a minute. She is almost 37 years old and still getting PRs in the 10K. How is that possible?   10:14 It didn’t used to be so long ago that mid-30s was old for a runner but now that’s not the case, and I think maybe it has something to do with belief, too, seeing all these new great examples.   11:06 I want to keep going back to the women because you have been coaching some really great ones obviously, and American women are seeing a resurgence in endurance running. American men maybe not so much. Would you want to talk about that?   12:32 I want to talk to you about how women are treated in this sport. We’ve all heard about the crazy things with the Nike Oregon Project and how Kara Goucher was treated when she was pregnant. I don’t think that it’s going to be the same story with Hoka. I would love to have you share what you could say about how Hoka supports its female athletes.   15:06 I think you’re right that when all that came out about the Oregon Project that we thought as fans, “Oh. This is the way they’re all treated.” But it’s great to hear that that’s not the case.   15:34 Whenever I get a coach on, I love to talk about coaching advice to hopefully help someone who’s listening become a better runner. Do you have different training approaches for the kids who come straight out of college than you do for your veteran elite runners?   17:03 Let’s talk in a little bit more detail about the training advice. Most runners get the advice hard days are hard; easy days are easy. But then you throw in some medium days. I think that’s where a lot of recreational runners trip up is those medium days. Can you talk about those and what they’re for and how you use them?   19:22 You don’t always have to run your hardest, right?   20:11 You're also a fan of high mileage and I want to know what that means to you because as runners we all want to run as much as possible but clearly there’s a point when high is too high. So what is that point? Obviously it’s individual, but how does somebody know what is high for them? Where’s that sweet spot?   22:51 Besides your athletes, this year we've seen so many world-record breaking performances in 2020, which seems counterintuitive since there have been so few races, the world is not normal, and people can’t train the way they usually do. What do you attribute that to?     24:14 I’m sure the cynics would say the number of world-record breaking performances in 2020 are because of the shoes or because there’s not enough drug tests in COVID. What do you say about those kinds of things?   25:25 So you think there should be regulations on running shoes like them being available to the public or there’s a stack height, that kind of stuff; is that what you mean?   27:00 What's next for you and your athletes?  How do you predict the running world will change in 2020?     28:29 This will probably air after the Marathon Project this weekend, but I would love to have you handicap it a little bit, tell us who’s all racing and what do you predict?   31:40 How many participants are there for the marathon? Questions I Ask Everyone:   32:17 If you could go back and talk to yourself when you started running, what advice would you give?   33:31 What is the greatest gift running has given you?    33:56 Where can listeners connect with you? Quotes by Ben: “I think what we’re learning is that women can run really well into their mid-to-late 30s, and we’re learning that not only from Steph but Shalane, Des, Kellyn, Molly Huddle; all kinds of women in the US and beyond are showing that in distance running, women keep getting better.”   “In general, my goal anyway is to keep people around here for a really long time. So we’re definitely taking a long-term approach and we’re not trying to necessarily throw everything at them right away. We’re trying to slowly add pieces over time, and you see that with the folks who have stayed with us for a long time just getting better and better and better and better, and that’s what we want.”    “I think uninterrupted training leads to great performances for anybody at any level.”   “The sport has a side to it now that is very technological. And so does golf. And so does swimming. And so does baseball, right? And every sport almost. And like all those other sports, we need to make sure that the playing field is fair.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run     Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel   Mentioned in this podcast:  The Marathon Project Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community RunnersConnect Facebook page claire@runnersconnect.net https://www.precisionhydration.com/ Follow Ben on: NAZ Elites on Instagram NAZ Elites on Twitter NAZ Elites on Soundcloud NAZ Elites on Facebook Ben's Twitter Ben's Instagram