Summary: Phil chats with Gojko Adzic about experiencing the joy of coding and programming, but also recognizing the importance of seeing the big picture when it comes to projects. Gojka highlights this by advising people work “close to the money” to gain a better understanding of how customers use the products he makes, and how his first startup went bankrupt when he got too wrapped up in tracking technical effort instead of product value. Still, he says he can’t imagine doing anything other than working in IT
