Summary: <br> In this episode the guys talk about the latest blog post from Ron Jeffries (<a href="https://ronjeffries.com/articles/018-01ff/abandon-1/">Developer Should Abandon Agile</a>) and the presentation by Node.js creator Ryan Dahl (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA">10 Things I Regret About Node.js</a>).<br> <br> Clayton plays the part of the pessimist, John takes the optimistic stance, and Ash remains a realist.<br> <br> <br> https://twitter.com/grales/status/1005600509112266752<br> <br> <br> John Callaway - 00:39 - So guys, what are we talking about today?<br> <br> Clayton Hunt - 00:39 - Apparently a Scrum Sucks And So Does Node. Yeah. <br> <br> John Callaway - 00:45 - So this week there were a couple of interesting developments. Ron Jeffries posted something about all developers should be abandoning Agile and Ryan Dahl had a an interesting talk given at JSConf about the problems inherent in node. So Clayton, you had written a series of posts entitled, Scrum Sucks. You want to kind of give us a brief catch up on on those blog posts? <br> <br> Clayton Hunt - 01:13 - Well, unfortunately I didn't get around to finishing them, but the basic idea was that the way that that companies, at least the companies that I've worked for attempts to implement Scrum is what sucks. Not necessarily Scrum. The framework itself. Typically what I have found is that the developers will kind of lead the charge to do Agile because we've heard it's better or, or we truly believe it to be a superior form of development from the old Waterfall days, but that message never gets heard all the way to the top and at some point it stops and wherever it is that it stops, that's where the pain starts because the business, whether it's the owners of the business or the, if we use Waterfall terms like the sponsor of your project or the business analyst or the project manager or maybe your own manager, the development manager or even some other developer on your team doesn't understand and doesn't care to understand why we are trying to do something different. <br> <br> Clayton Hunt - 02:20 - And so they either decide that whatever that thing that you're suggesting or that was in that book, uh, was suggesting is not really going to work before even trying it. Instead they make up their own process or they merely placate you and they do Waterfall behind your back. But then tell you that we're all doing Scrum when really that's not what's happening. Uh, all of that stuff leads to implementation problems in the framework and, uh, kind of creates a really terrible experience, like worse than the, than the Waterfall experience. If everyone agreed to do Waterfall or traditional development than a, I think it would actually be a better process than the halfway attempted or merely scoffed at versions of Agile that a lot of companies actually end up implementing. <br> <br> John Callaway - 03:13 - Yeah. Let me read the first line of Ron Jeffries' post entitled Developers Should Abandon Agile says Agile has become big business. <br> <br> Clayton Hunt - 03:23 - Yeah, it's, it's, um, uh, from, from his point of view, uh, and, and I somewhat agree is that it's, it's a certification you get, it's a sticker you put on your wall. It's not something you actually do the businesses, they just, they just want to be able to say that they're doing it. They don't want to actually do it. They don't want to adopt the concepts behind Agile. Yeah. I've been working on Agile teams for don't know, eight or 10 years now in some form or fashion. It seems often that the emphasis is more on the policies and procedures and going through the mechanics rather than a, I think the spirit of the Agile manifesto is, is lost in a lot of organizations and that, you know, if we're, if we're following these guidelines and we're doing these tasks and following this set of procedures than we are Agile,
