Summary: Hello there! This is Krista with Episode #112 on the Wag Out Loud Pawdcast. Have you checked out all of the amazing partner products that I highly recommend? Products that I’ve tried that will help your dog to thrive? Check out the Partner Products section at WagOutLoud.com, most items with discounts, and see what can make a difference in your dog’s life. Do you realize that a big part of protecting your dog from heartworm is protecting his immune system? That’s right! When you think of your dog’s immune system, you probably think about it warding off disease. But it also protects his body from parasites, like heartworms. A strong immune system is the difference between a few heartworms and an abundance of heartworms that would affect your dog’s health. Just another reason we need to improve our dogs’ gut health! Hi there Dog lovers! Thanks for tuning in to another amazing episode of the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Back for a 2nd time, Joel Baardseth is here to share some great information. If you didn’t catch his earlier episode about Rawsome News for Leaky Gut, have a listen! Joel has been in the pet industry for twenty years and each year he learns more about the Power of Food to help our four-legged kids live their best lives. He is the Sales Operations Manager for an excellent raw food company, Steve's Real Food. He teaches retail staff and the public how to use food to help with common dog and cat ailments. Joel, thanks so much for being on again. Thank you so much for inviting me back. This is always fun chatting with you, we get to geek out and this time on air and people can learn from everything that you have to share with us. Oh, we'll take nerd to the next level. All right, let's do it. Well, Joel, you are going to chat with us about the wolf on your sofa. What does that mean? Well, I like to use a relationship of dogs to wolves as a starting point, whenever I do presentations, I think it's important just to kind of realize that regardless of what leash colors and pink bows we put on our Chihuahuas that really, we did bring a wolf into our home. And it helps for the sole purpose of nutrition, and how to make them thrive. And I personally enjoy researching wolves. I also have a big affection for like wild cats, you know, jaguars, things like that. And something I've always loved as a kid is just kind of like and then these sort of be able to bring it into my my work world has been awesome. But the starting point of all this is that, you know, most people don't realize that wolves and dogs are, you know, they're 99.8%, the same DNA. And that point 2%, that's not identical. That's the difference in what we see. That's the difference between a chihuahua and a wolf and a mastiff is that point two. On the inside, they're all the same. So when wolves are studied, and if they were to open them up and look at the inside to learn, and you have an identical sized dog, right next to them, you wouldn't see a difference. And that's kind of awesome, right there. And in addition to that, they have the same scientific classification, and Canis lupus familiaris. You know, they're, they're the same, we know that they're the same for this reason, Wolves and dogs can mate in even produce offspring. That's how we know they're the same species. A horse and a donkey mate, they get a mule, but the mule is sterile. So the donkey and the horse are two different species. We want to have this because it helps us teach the wolves kind of we don't know exactly why. But they started to be domesticated maybe 15,000 years ago, you know, all this is going to be rough estimates. They've done DNA tracing, to get it that far. And there’s competing theories on why wolves came into our, into our world, if people did it, or if wolves, self domesticated, that's a theory that's out there too. But really why it's important is that's a long time, that they are eating what we'll call their ancestral natural diet. So both dogs and wolves are what's called opportunistic hunters. So in the wild, wolves and dogs, wild dogs, they have to form packs to survive, because they're not that good at what they do. meaning they're not that good at hunting on their own. They need that team to be able to do that. And that is a business relationship and the business is survival. Sometimes they get fresh prey, most of the time they're actually either scavenging or they actually graze. So they have a digestive enzyme You and I have it's called amylase, that allows them to metabolize like plant material. So in the wild wolves aren't just getting meat, and they're not only a carnivore, they actually have omnivore tendencies. They'll eat wild flowers. They will eat overripe berries, they love them in the fall and particularly berries that you and I wouldn't pick because they're too mushy, are loaded with lycopene, that is an antioxidant directly related to heart health. Now whether or not wolves know that they are absolutely drawn to them. So they do eat a lot of things because and they develop a wide variety of a diet. And it all stems from they're just not that great at hunting. Cats by comparison are true carnivores. They are flat out awesome at hunting, so they didn't have to develop…They don't have amylase in their saliva. They can't really metabolize plant material. Dogs can, wolves can, they need to in order to survive, so they can handle this wide varied diet. But they lean toward carnivores, they might have omnivore tendencies. But they absolutely perform best with a closer to a carnivore diet with maybe 15 to 20% plant material. That's really when they're at their best that we have found. So I have something really cool. Do you ever get to Minnesota? I've never been there. Well, okay, so I have these two lists to dos when you come. You probably don't want to come to this time of year, we're gonna have negative two degrees on Saturday as the high. so about an hour north of Minneapolis is this really cool place. It's called the Wildlife Science Center. And Peggy Callahan has been running it for 35 years. So this is a shout out to her too. And all the awesome work that she does, but on Saturdays, it's open to the public. And it's not a zoo, it is a sanctuary. She has about 110 wolves. So these wolves have come there for various reasons. Maybe mom got hit by a car. And you know, the young would die if they weren't brought somewhere. Or she had a pack of wolves that the alpha female actually taught the pack to hunt sled dogs. And so they're either getting killed or they had to be removed. So she brought them in. And so she's this wealth of information. And like, you know, Peggy, I need some cool stuff when I when I do these interviews, and I do you know, my webinars. And she told me she said that when she took it over 35 years ago, this sanctuary. The government was running it and they did a pretty good job, but they were limited budget. So they actually use kibble is what they fed the wolves, and I go all right. And she said so the first switch she made, and it turns out, it's the only dietary change she made was she worked out a deal with a DNR. In, you know, 100 square miles around the sanctuary, she gets all the roadkill deer. So her wolves’ primary diet, is road kill deer. And then she'll throw in wild flowers and you know, berries, just other things supplementally they're here and there that they would eat the wild. But they went fed kibble to that the life expectancy when they from all the records when fed kibble was 14 to 16 years, they now live 18 to 20. They have zero joint zero dental issues. And they average 130 pounds now, they actually averaged about 115 to 120. So they've gained muscle mass all by going from cooked food to uncooked food. So it helps us know what we can then apply to our four legged kids, to our dogs by using wolves and that knowledge. So wolves in the wild, they don't smell. They don't shed all over the place. They don't leave piles of poop that last three weeks. You know, all of those things are things we created that we think are normal, because of kibble, because of cooked food because of processed food. And it was created for the same reason, fast food and minute Rice was created for us convenience, it's meant we live fast lives. And we brought our dogs into that world too. And if we slow down a little bit, and take a look at this. And now we can get some knowledge from wolves and help guide us to keep our four legged kids a long, long time. That all makes complete sense. Well, Joel, I've heard that scientists have found a genetic difference between dogs and wolves. And I think you alluded to it earlier that dogs appear to have a greater ability to digest starches, and that the wolf genome has two copies of the alpha amylase 2B, which helps to process starches. And dogs have somewhere between four and 30 copies of this gene. So some people might say when it comes to diet that treating dogs like wolves doesn't make nutritional or biological sense. What do you have to say to that? I say that there are definite differences. If you look at just the fact that nature's survival of the fittest, and we try to keep the dog we bring the dog into the home that matches our personality that we connect with. And we don't know breeding history and all these things that can change kind of their immune and all of that. So sometimes, you know comparing them you know, you take Peggy's wolves 18 to 20 years, no joint issues average of 30 pounds. Well, we would love our large breed dogs to read like that going on to an uncooked raw diet isn't going to do that. But the trick is the raw diets that are the best, in my opinion, have about 20% plant material. And then you have the option to give treats and things like that. Remember, we're just going at that base diet, there is a fine line, you can amylase in your saliva. But that doesn't mean they can only eat they, they can have all the plant and all the starch that they that they want, there is a cap. So think of them as omnivore tendencies with kind of like a carnivore base. Peggy's wolves are based with roadkill deer, and then she gives these other things around it. Our dogs, even if that were true, that's still not enough to compensate for the level of starch and plant material that are in common kibbles out there, right. So we do want more protein from meat, we do want a higher meat content and keep that plant material at about 20%. And the results are awesome. I mean, that's, that's really what we look at is the results, how quickly, skin, eyes, teeth start to clean up, long life, muscle mass, these are all things that the raw feeders see over and over and over again. And so, you know, kind of the proof is in the pudding also. And so eliminating that, that high starch, I don't think starch should be factored in with what amylase can do. starch is bad for us. starch is bad for everything, you know, especially the processed starches. If we talk about fruits and vegetables, that's a little different. There are people that feed raw that give a lot of fruits and vegetables that they add to the raw and their dogs do great. But they're not adding high processed starch. They're not giving a pile of pizza crust or breads, like, that's where we gotta kind of draw the line. But whole living foods is a great way to roll. But there's so much this is what I love though is that Think about it. Like when Steve’s came out, there was no raw commercially prepared at the time. And then, you know, we got into grain free kibbles. Now we have, you know, specific quinoa in kibbles. And now we're talking about amylase, we couldn't have that conversation in the 80s or 90s, it would have gone over everybody's head. So for me personally, everything that you just said is more things for me to dig into more things for Steve's Real Food to consider, talk through, get the right testing and the right, you know, labs involved. And you know, the right animal scientists that we that we kind of talk through and have consult, because we want to get better. And I don't think any raw food on the market is perfect. I think we're all trying to get better every year and every year. And that really should be our goal. And so this is all new knowledge. You know, if you look at the you know how many years we've started studying this, if you're talking about 10s of years, that new, that new stuff. So we do have a long ways to go. But I love the starting point of carnivore with omnivore tendencies. I think that is a great way to kind of look at it, we're going to do a base diet, high meat, and then we can supplement with Whole Foods, fruits, vegetables, things like that. If you do that, we already know we're getting good results. Perfection is hard to hit though. So we'll keep trying on that. I find it so funny that a lot of the dog food brands out there have pictures of wolves on their bags of kibble. And I just don't think wolves would prefer to eat kibble out of a bag versus going after prey. Just saying… Exactly. Now, although there is this other side, to your little example there. if you had a plate of fresh carrots and broccoli and then there was a bag of chips next to you know, so that you might prefer something but the body might not. It is fascinating to watch. You know the change and the amount of changes I've seen, you know, when I first started feeding raw 20 years ago, I should say the month before I started feeding raw. I told my boss at the time, you know he he owned a distributor and I was one of the sales guys. And he brought me to the back of his warehouse and his name is Kirk Dietz and I'll make sure he listens too by the way. This was my shout out for him for bringing me into the pet industry. He walked me back to the back of his warehouse and he had this chest freezer that you might have in your garage. And he opened the door he goes Joel check it out. Raw Dog Food. And it's the best way to feed and he got all excited to tell me all of this and I shut the door and I said, I'm not gonna sell that hippie food. I don't know what that is because I was picturing leftover human food hitting the floor at the processing plant and swept into a bag. It just, it was. So out of my norm. I grew up, you see stacks of kibble in a store, and that's what you feed a dog. You know, I didn't know. So we've all had to kind of learn. And I look at as walking up through a staircase, if somebody is not comfortable yet, feeding all raw, there is enough health benefits out there that have been proven, feed, some, use it as treats, then. have their treats, be this uncooked, food that's very natural, that's fine. I'm on board with that. And if you start seeing good results, just see what happens if you add a little more. So I don't get down on anybody who is either anti raw, or because I was that person, I had to go up the staircase before I was comfortable. And I think it's totally okay, as long as they at least are open minded to listen, and just bank the information as we learn and can present it better. That's great advice. And when I think of wolves in the wild, I mean, they must have so many different protein sources. You know, deer and moose and boar and rabbits and you know, beaver fish, what have you. So if our if we look at the way that we feed our dogs, maybe the same exact protein source day in day out, I would have to think that our dogs if given a choice, and I think when they have more protein choices, that means they have the different amino acid profiles, which has to be more nutritious. So do you recommend that we do rotate our proteins? Constantly rotating for a couple of reasons. Number one, we would not want to eat the exact same thing day after day after day, it would get boring. So that's more on the emotional side of it. The other side of it is think 30 day health, not one day health. And I think people will do a lot better is there is there's nutrition in venison, and you can't get in chicken and vice versa. Rotate like crazy. Let's cover the gamut. Add in some goat milk too. give bones give freeze dried turkey necks then back away from those and add more of a higher protein source. It does prevent true food allergies. Now there's conditions out there that mimic food allergies, they give some of the symptoms but a true food allergy. If you have a dog that's susceptible to a true food allergy, repetition of the same thing over and over and over again, could ignite that. by rotating you can prevent that from ever happening. And so I love rotational diets, because wolves in the wild are used to this high variety. I can't use this example, if we if you and I ate the exact same thing. Let's say we had a baked potato every meal every day, you know for two years. And then your’e like, Joel I’m in town and there’s this new seafood buffet. And we went there, we could really upset our stomach. But if we ate a lot of different ethnic foods and a lot of variety, you can do a change and feel nothing. Our wolves and our dogs are the same way. So if you have a dog that has digestive upset rotate like crazy, and they welcome that it gives them a better healthier gut, work in canned food work in some good treats, stuff the Kongs with i like i like taking frozen. And I like taking cat food, canned cat food, it tends to be a higher meat content, a lot of times I put it in Kongs and I freeze it. And that's what I like to give. It's fun, it's different. It's unique. It's a different texture. It's all in the treat world though, you know a base diet is a complete raw diet. And then I have fun outside of that. And I like doing that. It makes life more interesting for the dog. The way I feed is if I change, flavors, formulas, or form every once in awhile I work in some freeze dried just for fun. I have special jobs that my Doberman has to do for each different food. And that's how I let her know what's coming. So when I make a food switch, she has a specific command, and then I switch and then she knows something different is coming her way. That's a great idea. Well, food is the biggest, single biggest We are the number one resource for our dogs. And you combine it with their second biggest resource which is food and that's their most personal interaction with you. And that's the best time you're going to have to feed them anyways. We're busy people . Make that interaction count. It's kind of the way I look at it. And it just gives you this awesome opportunity. I'll take freeze dried, you know, we got snow all over here right now. And I'll go to the tennis courts by my house, shut the gates, and just throw, freeze dried raw in the snow, and then Bimi has to find it. It's fun, it's entertaining. You know, it keeps them. But variety does that variety allows you to do those things. And then she can have something special and new and unique. That wasn't on the menu before. Once you establish variety, they can handle a lot of change. And it makes it a lot more fun. For both you in the dog. Great, great advice. Well, as we're coming to a close, Joel, I was gonna ask you, I've read that wolves can eat seven pounds of food in a day. But they might not eat again for several days. So that brings me to the question of should we fast our dogs and give their digestive system a break? There's one of those debates that can go either way. I do not fast my dog? Because I think about it as is that really by design? Or is that prey and food availability? And so that's one of the things I asked Peggy too and she's like, she doesn't fast her wolves. You know, she's like, that's kind of a availability thing. And I just lean toward her because her wolves, you know, average 130 pounds in captivity or 18 to 20 years. I like that. I want to follow that. And I can go either way. I've seen people get awesome results. When they fast once in a while. I just look at it as I lean more toward what if the prey was available? And would they be eating it. And that kind of comes down to wolves and dogs are opportunistic hunters, they don't know when their next food is coming. So they eat it all that's in front of them not knowing if it's gonna come? When would they be like if it was readily available. And I tend to lean towards that personally, I have no objections to people who do fast their dog once in a while, just be very careful with it. Because I've heard that they've gotten great results too. So I think this is one of those. We're still learning things, which makes it exciting. Because next year, we might do a podcast with the answer. Who knows? But right now we're still learning. Yeah. So Joel, why don't you talk briefly about Steve's because I am a huge fan, what goes into the formulation of your food and what sets you guys apart? We're an 80/20. Raw meaning 80% meat, meat by food definition is muscle meats, organ meats, and ground bone. And then the other 20 is going to be fruits, vegetables, you know, any kind of power foods in there that we add. And then we add goat milk to our entire line, if there was a separator amongst the raw brands that commercially prepared raw foods, and just so you know, I don't believe that there is a best brand, I believe that Steve's is the best food for me, because I love our commitment to the environment. I love that we're education first, that matches my lifestyle and the way I want to be. So there are other great brands too. And we all have small differences. We're all taking that same core knowledge. And then we kind of put our extended research on top, our extended research is, we add goat milk to the entire line, because we believe so strongly in gut health and goat milk is naturally loaded with probiotics. So there's a high level of goat milk in there to get a good healthy gut for our dogs. And so that is a, that's a big differentiator for us, that we get really good results on. I think we do a good job of being very transparent with our sources. So you know, competitors don't call up our sources and, and negotiate for them. But we're very transparent. I've visited some of the farms, I've been to the goat farm. And it was awesome. And the goats they're not only, you know, taken very good care of they retire on site. So this whole past year, that's their retirement, and looking at how much fun they were having. I want my retirement to look like theirs, right? They are well, cared for, they are happy and loving it. And that matters to me. You know that? That doesn't matter to everybody. You know, they're looking at their dog, and that's what matters to them. Well, I kind of I'm just a big picture thinker. And so, you know, we're part of a green initiative to you know, we're trying to get biodegradable bags, we're trying to do things that help beyond just feeding the dogs well. And so those are things that are unique to us. That's for you know, that's what makes it the best brand for me. And it's not always the best for others, but it absolutely is. The best for me. And on top of that, it just flat out performs. Yeah. And I think that's, that's the big one, right there is performance. You know, we've been around since 1998, with a lot of healthy dogs to show for it, like lots of awesome stories, healing stories. And, you know, that's kind of what we go by, is, wow, we just keep getting validated for this excellence. And that's what drives us. That's so cool. Well, and it's so easy to feed as well. And if anybody listening is interested in trying Steve's Real Food, they are in most dog boutiques. So ask your local retailer, or if you would like it delivered right to your front door, we are offering a discount, so you just have to go to RawPetFood.com. Use the code WOL10. And get 10% off of your order. And I have a feeling that your dog will be very thankful that you do that. Joel, where can everyone find out more information about you and Steve's Real Food? StevesRealFood.com, absolutely. Visit our website. There's some great knowledge in there. There's blogs, there's all kinds of extended information. There are studies that have been done. My email is joel@stevesrealfood.com And I do not mind people emailing me saying I've got this German Shepherd with this. any guidance you can give me and I'll do my best to take that first step and and to help out. My favorite part of my world is the teaching portion. You know that that's what I love to do, and taking care of as many four legged kids as I can. So well, I should say, dogs and cats. I can't help you with a hedgehog or an eguana, although I think they're cool. I can't really help you with those. Okay, just dogs and cats then. Yep. All right Joel, thank you so much for sharing with us today. Appreciate it. OFFER: You too can try Steve’s Real Food by going to RawPetFood.com and Use code WOL10 to get 10% off of your order! Joel, where can everyone find out more information about you and Steve’s Real Food? Stevesrealfood.com joel@stevesrealfood.com Social Media: FB & IG @StevesRealFood We appreciate our sponsor: STEVE’S REAL FOOD As a Wag out Loud listener you can use code WOL10 at checkout to get 10% off your purchase! Thanks for Listening! Thanks so much for tuning in again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the Bark About it section. Or you can click on the social media buttons to share an episode. Special thanks to Joel for being on the show. again Catch you next time! 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