Wag Out Loud

Hello everyone. This is Krista with Episode #170 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Have you checked out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend? Well, these are products that I've tried on my dog Winston and that I know, like and trust. Products that will also help your dog to thrive. Just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ and check out the Trusted Brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? Who regulates dog toy safety? The simple answer is nobody. So buyer beware. You can't rely on a toy’s packaging to tell you if it's safe. And many of the most popular toys at pet stores contain dyes, preservatives, and chemical residues that are toxic. And testing has also revealed heavy metals along with hormone disrupting chemicals, carcinogens, and neurological poisons, all bad stuff. So before you buy your best friend a new toy, you'll want to be careful about what's used to make it. And if you pick up a dog toy and it has a chemical smell, or bright colors, you should avoid it along with those that contain fire retardants, or stain guards. Synthetic chews, you know the ones made of nylon or plastic flavoring. They could also contain questionable ingredients that your dog is better off not ingesting. So choose toys made of 100% natural rubber, organic cotton, or other eco friendly and contaminant free materials. Even if the toy is made in the US, be sure to check the manufacturer is using only high quality natural materials. So bottom line is do your homework and help protect your beloved pup from toxic toys. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Dr. Bonnie Bragdon has a unique background that combines veterinary medicine, practice management and industry innovation. She began her career in practice, serving for nearly 10 years as an associate veterinarian, owner-veterinarian and animal control director with clinical and leadership responsibilities. In addition to her responsibilities as a clinical practitioner, Dr. Bragdon excelled in practice operations management and enjoyed coaching and mentoring her team for maximum performance. She transitioned to executive leadership in the animal health industry, where she continued her career development learning new skills in sales, marketing, and teaching adults. She is the co-founder of the Independent Veterinary Practitioners Association, the first nonprofit association dedicated to uniting and empowering independently-owned and locally-operated veterinary clinics in continuing to shape the business and practice of animal health care. She also frequently serves as a subject matter expert for DailyPaws.com regarding pet health issues. Hello dog lovers! We are so glad that you tuned into yet another informative Wag Out Loud episode. And I am thrilled to be chatting with my guest, Dr. Bonnie Bragdon. And she is going to talk about the dog parent and veterinarian relationship. So Dr. Bonnie, thanks so much for being with us today. I'm really excited to be here, Krista. I love talking to dog parents. It's very exciting. I don't get enough of that these days. And so I'm glad to be here. Awesome. Well, before we get started, would you please introduce yourself and share why do you enjoy working with other veterinarians and helping them to excel in their roles? They have many roles, doctors, caregivers and practice owners. Yeah, so I’m Dr. Bonnie Bragdon. I practiced for about 10 years after veterinary school. So I've owned a practice, I actually also managed an animal control facility, I left that career as a practitioner and entered what we call an animal health industry. And I work with drug companies and animal practices. And I like that intersection where health, science and clinic management all comes together. And I think I have some unique insights that'll help dog owners and give a little bit of inside knowledge about how to navigate those relationships. The Strain that Vets, techs and other in vet practices are under Well, I am so excited. You're the expert. So school us today, Dr. Bonnie. We're going to be talking about the importance of developing a healthy relationship with your vet for the personalized care for your dog. And we're going to talk about the cost of care, the questions that you should be asking to make sure that you're not being taken advantage of. So before we dive deep, I just wanted to do a shout out to all of the veterinarians, the techs and the other team members of these veterinary practices because I don't know if a lot of us realize the pressure, the stress that they are all under especially now these days. Do you want to talk about that? Yeah, so During COVID, a lot of us went out and got new dogs, had time with our dogs and understood that maybe things weren't quite right, we got caught up on preventative care. And we went to the veterinarian very often, during a time when there's a shortage of veterinary help veterinarians, trained technicians. And so it's been very stressful to bring that all together allow veterinarians to do the medicine and practice the way they want to, as well as be able to have time for themselves and not be so stressed. And so I am very grateful to any dog owner that just is a little more patient than normal. I now actually go to the veterinarian to get care for my own animals, and I have to be a lot more patient and understand things are taking longer in that so that staff can deliver quality care and aren't rushed. So it takes a lot of patience these days. Yeah. And I think sometimes we forget that the practice is a business. Right? Different Types of Veterinary Practice Structures and Ownership So and that's something that we should talk about, right. So what I am very, very passionate about, because I am an insider, and I am a veterinarian, I don't practice now. So I have to seek care for my own pets, and very passionate about helping dog owners to understand the different types of practices. So dog owners have a large number of choices of where they get care. They can go to a corporate practice, which is a national practice with standards across the United States, kind of like going to McDonald's, you get the same hamburger, so you know what to expect. You can also seek care at a an independent practice. And those can be one doctor practices all the way up to 30 Doctor practices. There are even nonprofit practices these days. So those are our practices that support low income folks, folks who might struggle to pay for care. So everybody has an opportunity to choose the kind of care they would like and how personalized that is, and what kind of relationship they have with their veterinarian. And they just need to understand those differences. To be able to ask the right questions. That's a really good point. Well, how do you want to start this conversation about forming a healthy relationship with our veterinarians? What Kind of Veterinary Care Do You Seek for Your Dog? Yeah, I think the most important thing is to consider the kind of health care you want for yourself, as well as for your dogs. And we all have different philosophies about how we would like to live our lives. Some folks want to live full out, and hey, you know, I'm going to eat doughnuts and smoke cigarettes. And that's great. And my grandma lived to 100. And she drank a glass of whiskey every day. And other folks are like, No, you know, I want to be very restrictive about my health care and make sure I work on it, and take care of myself to the optimum. And one of the things that I think is most important is to also to assess risk. So am I somebody who really wants to minimize risk and take absolutely no risks, and make sure that I get the best outcomes? Or am I maybe, you know, maybe I want to have a little more value added care. And I'm, you know, maybe willing to take a little bit more risk, because I'm having to pinch pennies and things like that. And so, first and foremost, consider what's important to you philosophically, ethically, morally, what style of healthcare you like, and then think about your budget. And once you put that all together, have a conversation with your veterinarian, because what I think so many times people forget is your veterinarian, has their style of care that they want, and they like to deliver. There's actually some experts in the veterinary profession who talk about burnout. And they talk more about burnout, not so much about compassion and empathy and kindness and sympathy. They're actually talking about burnout from a moral and ethical standpoint. So there's a lot of diversity in how we feel like our pets should be cared for. Some of us feel like our dogs should receive every bit of the same care as we receive. And other folks feel like maybe the budget is more important than the the type of care that's delivered. So veterinarians kind of get stuck in the middle. Because they're trying to advocate for their patients. They're trying to meet the budget and the philosophy and the moral needs of the client. And then they're trying to navigate these relationships. And it can be and their own personal feelings about what type of care should be delivered. And that can be very stressful for them. So I'll give you a you know, an example. Let's say that you really prefer to have a heavy emphasis on Eastern philosophies of medicine. Let's say that naturopathy, homeopathy, herbal medications, those are very very important to you as a health care consumer both for yourself, as well as Your Dog, it's important to find a veterinarian that also maybe even specializes or has those types of knowledge and moral and ethical style of medicine. And then you have that automatic match. So you're not at odds of what you're trying to accomplish for your dog. Risk vs Choice That makes total sense. And I know when we first met, we talked in depth about this risk versus choice, and how to mitigate risk. Can you talk about because I know we mentioned vaccinations and flea and tick medications? And what are the choices versus the risks? And what should we look out for when talking about treatments? Yeah, so we started off with like, what are the steps to get the right relationship with a veterinarian to meet your needs and your dog's needs? You know, number one, decide what your philosophy is, and what kind of style of medicine you want for yourself and your pets. Second, I think is that assessment of risk and understanding what type of risk and lifestyle you and your pet live. And then the third step is budget after that. And so when I talk about risk, you know, I could have, let's say, a Jack Russell Terrier, that's a breed that can be a couch potato, or they can be a working dog. So if I'm, if I were practicing today, and I had a Jack Russell Terrier that came to me and it lived on a farm, part of his job was to help keep, you know, the farm free of rats, keep folks safe from all the diseases that rats can carry, versus a Jack Russell Terrier that maybe lives as a companion for somebody who lives in an urban environment, the needs for different preventative care, vaccinations, parasiticide, is different. So the lifestyle of that hunting dog, that dog is going to get exposed to far many more infectious diseases than the dog maybe that sits on the couch, maybe even is trained to go to the bathroom inside. And so first thinking about what lifestyle risks there are. So the hunting dog has a risk of getting infected with ticks and fleas and and leptospirosis and all kinds of diseases carried by rats, whereas the couch potato is not going to have that kind of exposure. And so then once we know what the risk is due to lifestyle, then having a very focused conversation with your veterinarian about what vaccinations and parasiticide are needed. And if you tend to be somebody who prefers the fewer medications more than non traditional medications, there are things you can do to change your lifestyle to make risk of infectious diseases lower. So for instance, there are veterinarians I work with just like dog owners, who are very focused on integrative and maybe non traditional styles of practice. And for them, they prefer to have the least number of vaccines, they prefer to have the least number of parasiticides and medications on a regular basis, and so forth. What I've instructed those folks is that, you know, those pets who are going to receive fewer vaccines and fewer parasiticides should lead a less social life, and more restricted in what they access. So let's say, you know, I'm worried about that dog's immune system, I'm worried about vaccinating that dog, and I don't vaccinate it, or I vaccinate it less frequently, then I might restrict that dog from social activities because I don't want it to get infected. Or I might restrict it to a very small playgroup, like having all of the same dogs in that same playgroup, which aren't exposed to other dogs with the potential infectious diseases. So, for instance, let's say that I'm a foster mom, and I really like fostering dogs. And it's important to me that I give back by fostering that's a scenario where I'm going to have a lot more exposure to infectious diseases where vaccination is important that my own personal pet be vaccinated, as I rescue and bring in these dogs, but I where I don't know what the exposure’s been. So I may have to choose if I don't want to vaccinate as much, I may have to give up fostering in order to keep my own personal pet healthy. Titer Testing Or like everybody that follows this Show, we know about titer testing, and if we know that our dogs have the antibodies for you know the various diseases, then we should feel comfortable instead of over vaccinating or re boosting. Right. Now, there are some differences. So I did you know, I gave you a case case study that was extreme and what I was kind of thinking back and harkening back to is we did have, we've had some sporadic, not common, but we've had some sporadic outbreaks of canine influenza. And there are a number of different strains just like there are with people and birds and so some are more pathologic and, and problematic than others. And so absolutely titer testing is very, it's pretty reliable when it comes to core diseases like distemper, rabies and Parvo. I didn't do titer testing when I was in practice, but I do believe it's very good for helping understand if that dog has been well vaccinated. There are other diseases that we just you know, we don't have the ability, we don't have the knowledge or the information to predict whether that titer is going to be protected, or even if we can commercially test titers. And so the respiratory diseases are a little bit more difficult than some of the other core diseases. And so with canine influenza. And I keep thinking about that one, because we did have a new strain. There were some folks that that had some pretty difficult times with their personal pets, because they were very generous with fostering. So in that scenario, with fostering one of the very easy husbandry ways to manage through that is through isolation and quarantine. And so rather than if you if you don't want to vaccinate, and you know that you are very worried about that keeping your own personal pets isolated from those that you're bringing in, and that way you can manage exposure, and then just you know, managing as you go between the populations. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that. Well, we are at a point in the show where we need to take a quick commercial break. So we'll see you on the flip side, everybody. Stay tuned. Now is the perfect time to thank Liz Murdoch from Talking with the Dogs for being our monthly sponsor. Liz has developed a limited edition product and it's perfect for all of the dog lovers out there. Now what's better than talking to or about your dog? Dog Talk Conversation Starters offer 72 questions and writing prompts to get you connected and thinking about your dog in brand new ways. Whether sharing laughs about funny things our dogs do, or savoring favorite memories spent with a four legged friend, these Dog Talk cards are guaranteed to get you in touch with a dog in your life, or maybe even your heart. They worked for myself and my dog Winston and these are so fun with a group of dog loving friends to help prompt great conversations about our pups. Fun for all ages, these dog talk cards are a must for every dog parent. Order your deck by going to DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off. Order two or more boxes and get free shipping. Remember, these are limited edition, so be sure to order yours today! Welcome back, everybody. We are talking with Dr. Bonnie Bragdon. And how to have the best relationship with your vet. So very important, because Dr. Bonnie aren't we a team? It's not so many people hold veterinarians way up on this pedestal and almost feel that they can't say anything or ask questions, which they really should be. They shouldn’t be intimidated, right? Conversations with Your Vet No, they shouldn't be intimidated. And I would hope every one of my veterinary colleagues would agree with me when I say, if a veterinarian’s making you feel intimidated, and that's not a good relationship, and you need to search for a veterinarian that you're comfortable with. And that's the same for our physicians as well. And what is so fabulously wonderful about veterinary medicine is you can, I'm pretty sure I find the veterinarian who matches your philosophy, matches your medical style, your morals, your ethics and feelings and thoughts about your dog and the care that that dog should receive. It just takes a little work to find that veterinarian, and I'm gonna go off on a bit of a tangent but there I know a veterinarian in Texas, her whole practice is limited to helping rodeo bulls live their best life, in competitive sport. So no matter how you feel about, you know, animals and competition and how we have those types of relationships, there's a veterinarian and her whole career is dedicated to making sure that those bulls are competing in rodeos are healthy and competitive. And then will live a long and healthy life. And I never would have known that. So finding that right veterinarian for your dog is absolutely possible. It's just a matter of doing some research. First, you know, starting off with the practice website, and then having a conversation with the staff as well as the veterinarian and asking all of those questions. And I think some important questions to ask just like you, you know, you kind of prodded me is, you know, what is your philosophy regarding preventative care? You know, what is your philosophy regarding vaccination? And I would like to stop and say, a veterinarian philosophy about vaccination. parasiticide is very much formed by their experiences in practice, fairly self evident. So there's a lot of diversity and you'll hear me talk a lot about vaccination, for the very important reason that I worked in an animal control environment. And when I was in animal control I saw I saw far, many more animals die from preventable diseases because they weren't vaccinated. However, if you look at the World Health Organization's paper on vaccination and preventative care, they state in the developed world, that there are probably as many pets that are over vaccinated as many over vaccinated pets as there are under vaccinated pets. And so that's where we need a balance, right? And so some very interesting data that I don't have top of head anymore, but there are veterinary deserts, in certain environments in the United States, just like there are food deserts and healthcare deserts for people in that people are unable to get basic care and the basic vaccines. So these puppies have not been vaccinated for Parvo. And so those areas Parvo and distemper have very high prevalence, diseases, which probably certain veterinarians have never even seen in their career. So given my experience in a rural environment in the South in animal control, where vaccination was not highly valued by the community, I saw outbreaks of distemper and Parvo however, I went to practice at a very upscale area where vaccination was very prevalent, and I never saw another distemper case and I saw very few Parvo cases. So again, going back to that idea of understanding, lifestyle and risk, and then that dictates what preventative care, you should seek from your your healthcare provider. Cost of Treatment? All right, good tip. And when we talk about cost when we're looking at cost, you know, everything now is so expensive. And what are the questions that we need to ask to make sure that we're not overpaying for the services that we're paying for? Right. And, again, it's still gonna go back to that idea of risk. And risk is something I am very passionate about talking about, because I think so many times we read in the media, and we get very overwhelmed, right? So for me, myself, personally, I'm like, Oh, my God, I could be I could get monkey pox, I could get Ebola, I could get COVID. Now we've got flu. And we get all of this information. And we don't really have any help to understand what the relative risk is, what's the risk that I'm going to get the disease or that my dog is going to get a disease, what is the risk that the dog is going to get sick and die from the disease and what is the risk for preventing or treating that? So I'll give you an example. I have a colleague that I've worked with in the past. And she lives in Chicago, and I'm here in the South. And she sent me this picture of this dog. And she's like, convinced like, Oh, my God, I'm, I'm like, I found this, this insect on my dog, I am convinced it is this rare disease, he is going to die, I am freaking out, what should I do? And I said, well, the likelihood that that insect carries the disease, that it's going to kill your dog as low. The likelihood that that bug, if it has the infectious disease is going to infect your dog is low, you got got the insect off the dog almost immediately. And frankly, to be very blunt, there's no treatment. And if the dog is already sick, there's unfortunately nothing you can do about it. So giving that stepwise process and thought about risk, there's no need to panic over a weekend. There's no need to seek expensive consultation at an emergency practice. And it's okay to monitor that dog and how they are progressing and feeling. So having that stepwise conversation with a clinician, what is the risk that my dog is going to get this disease? What is what is the likelihood that the pet with the likelihood of outcome is going to be? How much will it cost to treat? And how much will it cost if I kind of watch or take other measures to monitor this disease process. And so if we think about, for instance, parvo virus, that's a very expensive disease to treat, that one, when we see a pet come in or dog come in, and we've diagnosed parvo virus, we know we want to hospitalize, we want to maximize the care that that dog is getting, we want to put in place an IV catheter and do everything we can because mortality can be as high as 20 to 30% in those puppies. However, if I have a dog come in, and maybe has an upper respiratory disease, it's got a honking cough, you know, without playing in the playground with the dog at the dog park, it's probably it might be viral might be respiratory, that's one where I might be able to watch and not give antibiotics, and watch for signs that the dog is getting progressively worse. So it's this idea of being able to understand the risk of death, and then kind of kind of trading care based on budget and based on the likelihood of a good outcome versus, you know, a poor outcome. Is the Veterinary Industry Broken? Sure. Well, I think we can all agree that in human medicine that the medical industry is broken. I'll just say that. So do you feel that there are improvements that can be made in veterinary medicine and the industry? Yes. So it is absolutely fascinating. I just came back from a conference, run by the ASPCA. And that conference, I just my hat's off to that group and the leadership they've shown, they're bringing to the veterinary profession, a conversation around access to care. And the conversation is around the spectrum of care. So veterinarians, especially veterinarians, in my age, we were taught to offer gold, you know, silver and bronze care. So kind of better, best, you know, minimum care. And that's not pleasant, right? That's not a fair conversation to have with somebody. Well, you know, if you can't afford it, we're just gonna kind of get you the basics and send you out the door. And that's, that's not a fair conversation to have with anybody. However, if we talk about the spectrum of care, right, we can have a conversation around, how much care do we deliver to minimize risk? And if we think about a surgical case, for instance, if I've got a puppy that comes in a six month old puppy that's being spayed or neutered, you know, Can I can I get you know, not do bloodwork on that pet, you know, you know, what is the risk if I put that pet under anesthesia, and I need to do you know, a castration or a spay, and I don't do pre, you know, pre surgical bloodwork does that, you know, what's the what's the likely outcome? Well, in a young animal, the likely outcome if I don't spend the money on pre surgical bloodwork, that that pet is probably going to get through surgery, okay. However, I don't know there could be a risk, I could miss a liver shunt. I could miss a congenital kidney problem. And so that's where we're starting to have more conversations around the spectrum of care. So we can deliver good quality value care to people that meet their budget. Now I had clients, it had nothing to do with their budget. They would go without for themselves in order to make sure that that pet, get every type of care absolutely possible in order to make Make sure they minimize risk at all cost. And then there were others who said, No, I really, I have to meet my budget. And so let's have a conversation around how we're going to do a good quality job. But maybe I'm willing to take a little bit more risk. Malpractice in Veterinary Medicine Well, since we're talking about risk, it makes me unfortunately, go right to malpractice. Because we are so emotionally bonded with our dogs. And if something happens, whether it was human error, or you know, they went the less expensive route, and something was missed, you know, whatever that is, there has to be a lot spent on malpractice insurance in a veterinary practice. Because isn't it prevalent? Yeah, malpractice is very different, for better or for worse. And this, this is controversial. So most states, here in America, consider animals to be property. No matter how much we love or care about our animals, at the end of the day, from a legal standpoint, they are considered property. Now, we still have, we have far more responsibilities for caring for our animals than we do regular property. So it's kind of this weird dynamic, where legally, that animal is considered property. But we have all these humane and welfare very expanding and very good laws about how we have to take care of these animals. And because animals are considered property, it does mitigate and lessen what happens when there is malpractice. And so that, you know, there's pros and cons to that, right? The good side of lowered malpractice is that that cost is not passed on to consumers. Now, the difficult part is if you feel like, you know, there has been malpractice, you may not be able to recover financially. But the way that I think about this is oftentimes I think we feel like getting, you know, a financial outcome from malpractice is a way to feel like we've been, you know, paid back not just on the damages, the financial damages, but also the emotional damages. And I think if we're able to kind of have a better conversation than physicians have, then I think we can keep the cost of care low, but still be able to acknowledge and provide people with closure, that that animal was every bit as important to them as any person, and that that problem or malpractice or negligence was every bit as emotional and problematic and dear to them as if it were a human. One of the things we don't always talk about is part of the stress that veterinarians feel I know myself personally, I have felt this is when there is an error or some other malpractices happen. I know I personally have felt it very deeply. I think that's why I don't practice today is because it's emotionally difficult for us as well. We well I, most veterinarians that I know, never want anything to go wrong. And when something does go wrong, they feel horribly about it. Really, I think it would be great to have a conversation among healthcare providers in veterinary medicine as well as legal and ethical folks and experts as well as owners or pet parents, so that we can have a better more balanced conversation around. Yes, financial damages need to be paid in order for that person to be paid back for the cost of care if it was negligent or malpractice to also have some form of acknowledging the grief. And you know, the difficulties and the emotional burden that comes with those. Those problems that crop up? So I don't have an exact answer. But the privileges that we have in veterinary medicine and animal health, is that if we just develop closer relationships with pet parents, we have such huge opportunities to really shape the future of Veterinary Medicine, unlike human medicine, because it's human medicine. There's so many government laws and policies and there's so many things that have to force or form the scenario where we have a huge opportunity in veterinary medicine to really make it something that works for everybody. Well said, Well, Dr. Bonnie, we are out of time. But I want to quickly let everybody know you co founded the Independent Veterinary Practitioners Association. Can you quickly tell us what that is about? Yeah, so I believe that everybody should have choice in the type of care they receive. Whether that's the most expensive or the most value added. And in veterinary medicine today, it is becoming consolidated and corporatized. So larger and larger companies are owning more and more veterinary practices. And I want consumers to know that they still have an option of seeking care with a practice that is owned by the veterinarian who works there. And oftentimes, those veterinarians and those healthcare providers can be more flexible in order to provide personalized care. Dr. Bonnie Bragdon Contact Info I love it. Thank you for that. That's an amazing organization. Well, as we are leaving today, how can people find out more about you and the association? Website for the IVPA is https://www.iveterinarians.org/   Social Media URLs or Tags          Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iveterinarians/          LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/independentveterinarian/ Yes, so they can visit visit us at https://www.iveterinarians.org/. And you can actually go on there and find one of our members. So you know for sure that it is a veterinary owned practice. That is another thing that I would advise people to ask questions. Oftentimes, these practices are not branded. And so as you're seeking care, ask the question, you know, who is it that dictates policy and procedure, medical SOPs, medical protocols? Is that the veterinarian here on site? Or is that a company and a group of veterinarians and a group of administrators off site. And if it's a group of administrators off site, that doesn't mean the care, it still is good quality care. It's just it might be more restrictive. And those veterinarians in the clinic may not be able to make those personalized touches, right. So those veterinarians who work for practices that have rigid policies are going to give you the company’s philosophy on vaccination, parasiticide, whereas an independent practitioner can have a more personalized conversation to really give you the kind of preventative care that meets you and your pet's needs. Great info. Dr. Bonnie, thank you so much for all that you do. And for being here. This is all good information. I really appreciate it. I just wish I could talk to all your people. So if you get any questions, I love answering questions. So I'm absolutely very serious if there's a way to get those questions to me. I mean, I cannot advise on specific cases. But I can guide people as to what questions to ask their veterinarian so they can get the right, right care that they need. And I love answering this questions. All right, everybody. You heard it. So give me your questions. I'll forward it on to Dr. Bonnie. Thank you so much. And we'll be back next time. Thank you for your time today. Thanks again to our sponsor Genie’s Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode. Fetch some Genie’s Therapeutics Hemp Signature Blend for your dog at GeniesTherapeutics.com. And be sure to use the code WOLspecial to receive free shipping and 10% off. Thanks again to Talking With the Dogs and their new Dog Talk Conversation Starter Cards for sponsoring this episode. Get your limited edition Dog Talk Cards by visiting DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off, plus free shipping if you order two or more boxes. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hello there this is Krista with Episode #169 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Why does your dog lick you? Well, dogs lick your skin because they like the salty taste of you, or simply as a sign of affection. And according to experts, the process of licking releases feel good endorphins that make your dog happy and feel relaxed. So I say, bring on the licks! Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Veterinarian Dr. Karen Shaw Becker believes biologically appropriate food and an animal's immediate environment are the most important factors in determining health, vitality, and lifespan. She has spent her career as a small animal clinician, empowering animal guardians to make intentional lifestyle decisions to enhance the wellbeing of their animals.  Hello, dog lovers. Why am I so giddy today? Well, it's because I have THE Dr. Karen Shaw Becker on the show with us. And she's going to talk about why stress is one of the hardest lifestyle challenges for modern dogs. Dr. Becker, I know I've been hounding you now and your team for about three years to be on this pawdcast. So thank you, for appeasing me. Many of those listening probably know who you are already, maybe because I don't know you're the most followed veterinarian in the world. But why don't you introduce yourself? And why don't you also share, when in your career, the light bulb came on for you to practice integrative medicine. Well, thank you Krista for hosting me and I appreciate your incredible patience. While we figure out a time of day for this podcast, you've been very kindly patient, and I'm just excited to be here. So thank you. And I was one of the rare people I believe in the health and wellness space that I played… Well, I didn't have to go through my own physical health crisis, or lose a dog to a health crisis or to a preventable health crisis. Thank goodness, I feel pretty blessed that I came out of a very proactive, healthy home. My entire family, I come from a long line of incredibly wise women that made it their focused intention to create health in their families. So my grandma Shaw, my Mama’s Mama was the one who taught me how to grow wheat grass and sprouts when I was 12. She was sprouting., you know when I was 12. So I learned actually how to grow my first batch of sprouts from my grandma Shaw. And I just come from a long line of people who have used food as medicine and have taken on a more common sense approach to health and wellness. And I'm incredibly thankful for that because I went to veterinary school knowing I would be a proactive veterinarian, I went to veterinary school knowing that my toolbox was not going to be complete that I went to veterinary school saying thank you that I have triage skills, and I have surgical skills for crisis. And when it comes to infectious diseases, these are the things that I learned in veterinary school how to fix acute trauma, like a hit by car and how to manage infectious infectious disease. I knew going into vet school that I would not learn anything about how to prevent degenerative disease from occurring, how to prevent lifestyle diseases, I knew that I was going to be sadly deficient in how to keep the body well. So I feel thankful that I was aware of that deficit. And so I took the classes, courses and certs and certificates I needed either during veterinary school or I can I'm a professional student. So I'm still in classes. Right now I'm taking a really a two year long genetics class to learn about the genetic variants that affect dogs and cats that allow us to be able to make changes before those genetic snips are expressed. So I'm always learning something. But I'm just really thankful that I came from a home that believes in wellness. So it was not something I had to go through out of trauma. It was It has been a lifestyle for me since the day I was born, thankfully. Good for you. Well, this topic, I don't know how we're going to cover it in 30 minutes, because there's a lot to talk about. But we know that we as humans are more stressed than ever before. It's just a fact. We also know that our stress is felt through our dogs. So if we are in constant fight or flight, our cortisol is always on and up. Our dogs most likely are going to have bad adrenals as well as a result is that right? How Our Stress Affects our Dogs It's pretty clear cut. And Dr. Biagio D’Aniello from Italy was the scientist that we interviewed that kind of broke that news. He was the guy that found out that dogs had chemo signals that they could smell for fear, rage, stress, happiness/joy within one second of our human emotions. He was the guy that determined that dogs not just identify those emotions, but they themselves can feel them as well. So you are spot on. Whatever the barometer of our emotional state, or our home's emotional state that will become our dog's emotional state, you're spot on. And I think I don't know if it was the same study, but the one in Science Daily that said, 93.75% of the changes in our stress, dogs could detect just through a change in our breath and our sweat. That's how spot on they are in picking it out. How spot on they are. And you know that that does two things for me. I stop for a split second. And I'm in awe. Because I mean, we all know dogs are amazing. Of course. That's why you have you know, you're doing this podcast. That's why people are listening. And that's why I'm a veterinarian. I mean, dogs are just awesome. But then you hear things like that. And first I stopped and I'm like, That is so cool. But then if you're like me, you feel this weight, you feel this weight of Okay. Our animals are basically trapped in our homes. And our homes can be chemically toxic, emotionally toxic, physiologically toxic. It's all these, you know that our homes are the places where our dogs primarily reside. And so, oh my goodness, not only when I heard about this study I was compelled enough to get on a plane and go visit the researcher. When you watch these dogs work in the lab. And when they have these hidden samples, it's amazing. They'll allow a dog to smell a sweat sample from fear. And immediately the dog is able to smell it and instantaneously adapt. But now they're measuring that dog's stress hormones. And instantly the dog secretes high levels of stress hormones, because if you think about it, that evolutionarily makes sense that dogs like okay, if mom or dad or are releasing through chemo signals, stress response, that's my cue that something in the environment may not be safe for me. So they're going to mimic that same stress response. And over time, you can get into a pretty toxic situation where you have ongoing levels of stress hormones and fight or flight ends up in a burnout situation. It's bad for the whole family. So identifying stressors are one of the things we can do preemptively to try and mitigate or minimize our dog's risk in that environment. And is that what is considered the overactive sympathetic nervous system? When they’re in that state? Exactly. Yes, yep. And so there is, of course, fight or flight, there's also freeze, which a lot of animals, they just shut down. But you know, it's interesting Krista, when we were outlining how to encompass this, how are we going to lay out for for dog owners, this strategy that they could easily remember and thinking about all the moving parts that it takes to intentionally create a longer life but also a healthier, happier dog by us making better decisions? Like how do we lay that out in the book, we came up with this D O G S strategy. So D is for Diet and Nutrition. And your listeners already know about that. Food is a thing that we do every day that either heals or harms our dogs. And that's not rocket science. That just is what it is. So making good nutritional decisions to the best of your ability, with the money you have. And then figuring out creative, easy, simple hacks to fill in with fresh foods is a really common sense thing that we all should be doing. So that one's kind of a gimme. The O is for Optimal Movement, which is exercise. And it's no there. Again, it's not a shocker to anyone that dogs need daily movement, all dogs, even the tiniest of dogs are wired as athletes and they need a lot of movement, not just for mental, emotional, and physical well being, but they just need to be able to move their bodies to, you know, maintain lean muscle mass. And the lack of exercise is a big stressor in that it predisposes dogs to having torn ACLs. And they develop more degenerative joint disease, or if they're constantly pulling on their neck, that's a physical stressor, that stressor that can cause disc disease in the neck. So there are these physical stressors that totally impact the dog's ability to be physically well, the G stands for Genetic Predispositions. And when I went to vet school 25 years ago, we were taught that a dog’s genetics are just steps. But what I learned through writing this book Is that actually dogs and humans, we all have this set of genetic variants that can actually be up or downregulated through this brand new science and research of epigenetics. So our decisions on a day to day basis when it comes to the chemicals our dogs are exposed to the foods that they eat, that impacts actually genetic expression. So that's really good to know. But you are right, the stress component, not only did I underestimate how stress impacts dogs, but I was really taken aback that every single longevity researcher and scientist that we talked to, every single one of them said, when when we asked them, Hey, what are you if you could give us one summarizing statement about if you were going to intentionally create an animal that has less degenerative disease and lives its maximum lifespan? What's your take home two cents, you got to have it written down, and every single scientist talked about stress. So it was something that I think overall, I think veterinarians underestimate the role of stress in when it comes to health and well being. I think that pet parents maybe aren't identifying all the stressors. So that was a big area of focus in the book, because I think all of us have underestimated just how impactful stress affects our dogs. And in all of the different ways that stress can impact our dogs. Right. Well, in case anybody listening doesn't know what book Dr. Becker is actually talking about. It is The Forever dog, which should be the Bible for anybody that wants to treat their dog's health in a natural way. And be preventative. And that's what you're talking about. So again, that's the Forever dog. And Dr. Karen just talked about the D. O. G. S. strategy. So I love that. But we're gonna take a break here in a minute. But before we do that, could you just talk about some basic environmental factors that are going on, that are causing stress in our dogs, and just a spoiler alert… Part two, the second half of this interview is going to talk strictly about early spay and neuter, and how that stresses the system. So Dr. Karen, can you just tell us about some of the environmental factors. Environmental Factors The other. You bet. So, maybe what we'll do is is a easer pre break is the fact that when we think about stress, yes, there's the emotional mental stress. So you know, if you have to keep your dog in a kennel all day while you're at work that is necessary, but that's also a physiologic stressor. There is lack of environmental enrichment in many dogs’ homes, or if there's some adversive training or harsh training that can be a mental or emotional stressor to a dog. The physical stressors like obesity, or lack of exercise, or having your blinds pulled close. My gosh, I didn't realize how much dark homes totally throw off our dog's circadian rhythm. I talked to Nobel Prize winner Dr. Satchin Panda. And he said, I said, What's your number one take home and he said to me, it should be cruelty to animals, that they are stuck in homes and apartments all day with the blinds closed. He said, if people knew how much endocrine disruption they could prevent by just allowing direct sunlight through windows into their homes everyday that alone, you would see an improvement with a dog’s mental well being and oh my gosh, it's so important. So that's a physical, those are physical. Then we're going to talk about chemical stressors. And so right before the break, let me just throw this in. Of course, there are chemical stressors in the home. So we have air and water. You know, if we're doing city water with fluoride and chlorine, if you're doing well water that has heavy metals, or for smoking inside the home, if we're using a lot of scented candles that give off VOCs if we're using cleaning products that say you know call poison control, we know that our animals are collecting those. If we're having off gases from flame retardants, all of those things inside of our home impact our dog's DNA. Outside of our home, we have lawn chemicals, pesticides, and they have several studies that talk about how just pesticide use alone. And if you have a professionally treated lawn that increases your dog's risk of lymphoma by 70%. That's what we call chemical stressors. But after the break, we're going to talk about the veterinary stressors. And that's the piece being a veterinarian, Gulp. That's a soft spot for me. And so we'll talk about veterinary stressors after the break because that's the category of things that I think oftentimes certainly veterinarians aren't reflecting on, but I think oftentimes pet parents aren't either. I'm excited. Well, everybody hold tight. We'll be right back. Thanks to my friends at Genie’s Therapeutics for sponsoring this Episode. Now if I say CBD, your head probably start spinning because there are so many canine CBD products on the market. I totally get it. But with little regulation in the industry, how are we to trust what's on the market? How do we even read a certificate of analysis? And will a certain product actually help our dog? Well, I've done the research and I've tried numerous CBD products on Winston and my trust is in Genie’s Therapeutics. This is a company that provides one of the few USDA organic certified hemp tinctures on the market today. And it is organic from seed to manufacturing. 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Dog Talk Conversation Starters offer 72 questions and writing prompts to get you connected and thinking about your dog in brand new ways. Whether sharing laughs about funny things our dogs do, or savoring favorite memories spent with a four legged friend, these Dog Talk cards are guaranteed to get you in touch with a dog in your life, or maybe even your heart. They worked for myself and my dog Winston and these are so fun with a group of dog loving friends to help prompt great conversations about our pups. Fun for all ages, these dog talk cards are a must for every dog parent. Order your deck by going to DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off. Order two or more boxes and get free shipping. Remember, these are limited edition, so be sure to order yours today! We are back and speaking with Dr. Karen Becker. So exciting! But Dr. Karen, you are a veterinarian, and you're about to talk about the stressors on dogs that our veterinarians are really responsible for. So I'll let you open that can of worms. Veterinary Stressors Well, thank you. I will also also preface this conversation by saying I hope your listeners understand that veterinarians are very good people with amazing hearts doing the very best they can in what I would call one of the hardest jobs on the planet. So first of all, everyone listening, please recognize your veterinarian is doing the very best they can so with the information that they have. And if you… so a couple different things. If you have wildly different viewpoints than your veterinarian, one of the things you can do to do to minimize stress and frustration for you is to potentially align yourself with a health and wellness or proactive functional medicine veterinarian that maybe has more aligning overarching viewpoints on how to approach health and medicine, disease and degeneration. If you don't have access to a health and wellness practitioner, and just as a side note, people say where do I go? Many many functional medicine or integrative veterinarians do phone consults. The College of Integrative Veterinary Therapies has a listing online that has a world wide reference of a directory you can go to https://civtedu.org/directory and if so let's just say you're stuck in in Idaho or North Dakota and you're like oh my gosh, there's no veterinarians three hours away for you not much less a wellness veterinarian. Don't fret. This is a this is gonna motivate you for two reasons. Number one, you should begin realizing that this is your cue to become the most empowered, knowledgeable pet parent because you are front and center then for identifying because you don't have a wellness veterinarian right on the corner, you are your dog or cat’s first go to you have to be wise enough to be able to make good decisions with no regrets, which means your learning curve may be exponential, but just do it anyway. And number two, you can meet a wellness or functional medicine integrative practitioner that you can do telemedicine or phone consults with and that is hugely reassuring to many people who say, Oh my gosh, I am in a rural part of North Africa, and I don't have access to a wellness veterinarian, you can because of technology. So just don't panic about that part. Second thing I'll mention is that some chemicals are necessary. And so I am by no means saying that, that this list, I'm going to rattle off I'll just start with flea and tick pesticides. So veterinarians you know, my group of professionals we routinely prescribe pesticides that we intentionally feed to pets on a consistent basis for flea, tick and heartworm. And people say oh my gosh, I never thought about the fact that I'm intentionally feeding pesticides to my animals. That kind of freaks me out. If you live in Florida, if you don't do something for fleas and ticks, you could end up with overwhelming Lyme disease, and overwhelming heartworm. And that that risk versus benefit of not using chemicals is not there. So I mean, you have to do something depending on where you live. But one of the things that's really important that we stress in the book is if you have to use chemicals on your lawn, or let's say you live in a subdivision where they are going to spray or you have to give to flea and tick pesticides. The key is to formulate a damage control protocol. So if you are going to knowingly institute a chemical stressor in or around your dog or cat, don't panic, evaluate does it have to happen and if it does, then you formulate a damage control protocol to help counteract any potential side effects. Same with vaccines. Vaccines are another veterinary chemical stressor that veterinarians routinely adjust. And what I would tell you from a functional wellness perspective is we all want our dogs to have Baseline Protection, great after two all time puppy shots for core vaccines that protection like with humans can oftentimes last a lifetime. So I know that you are a proponent of vaccine antibody titer, so am I. That's kind of common sense default, of course, I mean, the beautiful part about doing a simple easy blood test to measure your dog's immunity is once they're protected. They're protected for life. And it's just so reassuring to know that if your dog is around a Parvo positive puppy, they're protected. It's also reassuring to know that if God forbid, you can vaccinate your dog and your dog isn't protected. That's equally as important to know. Making Yeah, just making good decisions based on more knowledge is just very empowering. It should bring about a sense of relief and calming, not stress. I mean, that's one of the things that knowledge does is it helps put us in a place of taking a deep breath and saying, Okay, I'm so glad I knew enough to make this decision. So when it comes to other forms of veterinary stressors, you know, antibiotics are something that veterinarians oftentimes routinely prescribe. And sometimes just saying to your veterinarian, hey, my dog has a hotspot that's on the outside of the body. I can see it. It's an oozy gross thing I know you want to prescribe oral antibiotics, but what about me treating that oozy sore topically versus orally? Most veterinarians will say sure, give it a whirl. Here's what I recommend. Just having conversations with your vet if your vet’s saying hey, I want to automatically give your dog a dewormer just every year give them a de worming drug, you can say hey, how do you know what worms my dog has? Because the drugs we use for roundworms don't treat tapeworm so like why don't we do a parasite check. Let's look at the poop under a microscope. And if my dog has a parasite, we'll address it then that's an easy conversation. Your vet will say. Okay. So part of it is just opening a dialogue with your veterinarian about you recognizing that you want to be cognizant about the chemicals in and around your animal. And veterinarians are usually very open to having a conversation about recognizing that they want to reduce antibiotic resistance. They want to do everything they can to have a relationship with you that is trustworthy and also rooted in good communication and clear understanding of each other's needs. So just having a kind respectful conversation with your vet is a great place to start. In addition to those routine chemicals that veterinarians typically recommend. Veterinarians oftentimes also recommend early spay/neuter and this is a hard thing for me because I have been one of those veterinarians. When I opened my practice I came out of a kill shelter environment where I worked for 20 years and spaying and neutering early spay/neuter was very important to me because I equated it with responsible pet ownership. And it was only after I recognized that I had created an entire practice full of endocrine damaged dogs, that I started reflecting on the fact that I do have wildly responsible owners in my practice. And I have just created irrepairable endocrine damage on these dogs and in these dogs’ bodies. what can I do to potentially do damage control. So there again, if you are rescuing, and you have a dog that has come to you already spayed or neutered, that decision’s already been made for you. But one of the things I have learned, not just through writing the Forever Dog book, but into my dive of intentionally creating the longest, healthiest lived dogs on the planet. When we interviewed the owners of the oldest dogs in the world, they too, gave us more information that was very supportive of what this vast body of research is beginning to uncover. And what we've learned through research in the last 20 years, is that when we remove organs, specifically hormone secreting organs, so the ovaries in female dogs, and the testicles in male dogs, when we remove those hormone secreting tissues, before they ever had a chance to have the positive, impactful and necessary impact on their, the animal's endocrine system that's needed. For a fully functional system to work in harmony for normal hormone balance, when those organs are removed, before they ever have a chance to function. Some really negative things can happen. And when I started doing a deep dive into these really negative things, I It broke my heart because I am a veterinarian that has been directly responsible for harming many of my patients. So I'm going to read to you a list that is painful for me to read. I'm going to read to a list that not just me, but every veterinarian that has desexed dogs. Consequences of Early Desexing of Dogs If they don't know that there can be irreversible consequences when they do recognize it. It kind of takes you out at the knees because, of course, we all recognize that there's an overpopulation problem. And so none of us want to contribute to that. But what I have learned is that we can sterilize dogs with techniques that do not negatively impact our hormone system, which means we can render dogs sterile, so they're not capable of having unwanted litters without stripping them of necessary hormones. And so when we traditionally spay and neuter dogs, what the research shows is that animals that have been spayed and neutered, have higher incidences of obesity, urinary incontinence, bladder stones, atopic dermatitis, which is basically allergies in dogs, autoimmune hemolytic anemia, Addison's disease, that's that adrenal burnout that you were talking about. The medical term is called hyperadrenocorticism. But it's basically adrenal failure, diabetes, low thyroid or hypothyroidism immune mediated thrombocytopenia, that means the body quits making platelets, IBD, or inflammatory bowel disease, hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament rupture, which is knee ligament tears, aggressive and fearful behavior, cognitive dysfunction syndrome, which is old dog Alzheimer's, doggy Alzheimer's, prostate cancer and bladder cancer. And the research goes on to say that musculoskeletal issues are significantly elevated the risk for increased musculoskeletal issues of all kinds for large breed dogs desexed before their growth plates have closed, is also a massive issue. So there's a long list, too long of irrepairable stuff really long list. And you know, I'll, I will send you the email of the resources. So if you want to put in the show notes, or if people want access, I'll send you the dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of articles, in fact about one a week right now coming out demonstrating the deleterious effects of not having any sex hormones. So again, I want to qualify for your listeners that we're not talking about irresponsibility, we're not talking about leaving animals intact to have unwanted litters. If they don't fill up our shelters, you're not talking about that. What we're talking about is the fact that many of us have spayed or neutered our dogs because we were told it's the healthiest. It's the healthiest thing we could do. Do and to be responsible and to create health. This is what we need to do. And for me it was eye opening to realize that sometimes we have to learn, unlearn, and relearn topics as science presents itself. Sometimes we have to totally switch gears and actually say things like, oh my goodness, as a professional, we were wrong about this approach. And we need to potentially change our course of action so that we don't continue creating damaged endocrine systems. And so this is kind of the beginning of us having a conversation worldwide on the veterinary level about the fact that we probably should be entertaining a conversation about teaching veterinary students, alternative sterilization techniques like vasectomy, and hysterectomy, that allow dogs to be sterile, but still have some sex hormones, so that some of these degenerative diseases don't occur in life. Brilliant. And if you were to suggest an age of a dog to wait on these alternative desexing methods, what would you suggest? What Age Should We Consider Spay/Neuter? But when we ask this to not only theriogenologists that we that we interviewed for the book, but I just asked this to Dr. Michelle Kutzler, who's a veterinarian, and she's board certified in Theriogenology, which is the specialty of reproduction. So she's basically an OBGYN For dogs. And I just did a podcast with her at on October 16. Actually, it's posted on Dr. Karen Becker’s Facebook page about this topic. So if any listeners want to spend an hour and a half kind of diving into this topic, you can scroll back through to October 16. And, and hear the my interview with a reproductive specialist about this topic. And what Dr. Kutzler suggested is that if you have a large breed dog, a dog over 50 pounds, that if you can wait until they are skeletally, mature, and that's different for every breed, for instance, you know, Tibetan Mastiffs, which are really big, massive breed, and they're very slow to develop, they really don't reach maturity until two years of age. So waiting until at least two would be a good idea. And for listeners, or readers, or for people in your circle, your wellness community that have purchased a dog from a breeder, many breeders wright into the contract that they that they can't spay or neuter before two years of age, or until after at least that second heat, because that gives the body a little bit of progesterone and estrogen, to be able to carry the body at least partially through a dog's life. So that maybe that early incontinence or I've had dogs, by the time that I've pulled their sutures, after spaying them, they've already started in to urinary incontinence. And that's a little overwhelming. So even letting a dog go through two heat cycles will give a bump of hormones that could be protective, at least according to research. Interesting. Well, we are about to wrap up. But I will put that other podcast in the show notes as well so people can do a deep dive. I hate to add to the list, but I think I read that Cushing's is also a disorder that has been shown… Better Way to Desex Our Dogs Yes. And you know, Cushing's disease, in fact adrenal dysfunction. The Addison's disease has been demonstrated into peer reviewed studies. Cushing's disease does have some research behind it where it has been implicated, certainly animals that are Krishna raised, the vast majority of animals with Cushings would have been spayed or neutered. So I do think that there certainly is a link. And that makes sense to me, even without the research that makes sense to me in that, that there's this hypothalamus, adrenal axis, cortisol axis, that that where the brain works with the adrenal glands and the sex hormones to maintain a physiologic balance in a dog's body. And so it makes total sense to me. And I would say that in my personal experience, absolutely Cushing's disease, as well as Addison's both have implications with spayed and neutered dogs. I don't have that that peer reviewed study for Cushing's in the in the dozens and dozens of references that I'll send you, because I don't think that they have been, I think that it's inferred that there is a link, but I don't have that research. But if you have it, you should share that with me because that means I missed that study. But I do think that adrenal disease and thyroid disease, the endocrine system, works as a web and so if you think about pulling on one side of a spiderweb, the entire web moves with it. So it does make sense that in animals and dogs specifically, like kitties are not affected by this issue, thank goodness. And the podcast I do with Dr. Kutzler kind of dives into why cats thank goodness don't have all these repercussions. But spaying and neutering of dogs is something that if we're capable of waiting until animals are physically mature, that's a really good idea. Or if you want to desex, if you want to sterilize your animals, and you don't want to desex them, let's say at eight weeks of age, you can ask your veterinarian for hysterectomy or vasectomy. Now, not all veterinarians know how to do that procedure. And that's kind of the hangup right now. But the beautiful part is more and more veterinarians are learning how to do hysterectomy and vasectomy, it's less time under anesthesia, it's a quicker, shorter procedure. It's a win win way all the way around, except that vet aren't taught how to do it. And so Dr. Kutzler has kind of made it her mission to help veterinarians learn these additional surgical techniques. So they're able to offer them to their clients. And she actually has some videos, if you are listening to this, and you are a veterinarian, or you want your veterinarian to potentially learn more. The Parsemus Foundation is a nonprofit that does a really great job of educating veterinarians and pet parents about some alternatives to some sterilization alternatives to desexing that helps preserve and endocrine function, which is wonderful. That is great. So you didn't stress us out? You actually gave us some good news that there are options. So yeah, that's good. Dr. Becker. Oh, my gosh, as we sign off, is there anything you'd like to leave us with? Advocating For Our Dogs The Right Way Well, I Yeah. And let me tell you why. You know, when we do kind of, I don't want to say short for like, first of all, I love the fact that your podcasts are short enough that people can get the information and get out, they don't go on for 2, 3, 4 hours, it's really beautiful. It's a perfect amount of time. But when we cover a topic like this, sometimes you can go away with Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that I feel overwhelmed. So the little tidbit of advice I would like to leave your listeners with are two things. Number one, if you have desexed your dog, don't panic, I have too. There's all sorts of damage control protocols. For every single one of those conditions listed there is a damage control protocol. So if your dog has one of the symptoms, don't melt down, take a deep breath and realize, okay, my dog has this. It's not just because they were spayed or neutered. All of these diseases have multifactorial effects that play into this. But there are still some things that can be done to help rebalance your dog's endocrine system post spay/neuter so don't feel like there's irreparable damage. that's been done, number one. And number two, I think that everyone listening to this podcast is doing the very best they can to provide the best life for the animals in their care. And I think that oftentimes, we're really hard on ourselves that we don't know enough. And if we could have had more money and more time and more resources and more knowledge, and that we could have done a better job. And I think that oftentimes we guilt ourselves into feeling so much shame and anxiety that we that we actually miss the incredible meaningful times we have with our dogs that just want it they want to hang out with us. They just want to spend time with us whether they're sick, or well, they just want to hang out with us. And I think that if we can let ourselves off the hook for all that we should be doing it could be doing and take a deep breath and begin to approach our dog's health and potentially recovery, that their illness recovery or their health and wellness journey begins with us taking a grounded, centered approach at a pace that doesn't cause any more stress in our lives, and at a pace that we can feel comfortable instituting with our budget and the resources and the knowledge that we have, that we every day, make a conscientious effort to learn more so that we can apply one step at a time, a little bit of knowledge, or a change or a pivot, or one thing that allows us to on a day by day basis, intentionally create patterns and choices, through good healthy decisions that come through learning information at a pace that we can absorb and apply. And that by the end of our time with our dogs on this earth. Our job is to be able to put our head on your pillow and say I did the very best that I could and I'm so thankful for this time with this blessed being and at that point. We've done all that we can and instead of beating ourselves up celebrate what a beautiful blessed gift this animal was and how much we've learned from sharing this life with this animal that we had. So I think if we can rearrange our perspective and shift it from frustration and guilt and anxiety about the stuff that isn't done and shifting it to a more proactive wellness empowered, I'm doing all I can and I can't wait to learn more, it helps us enjoy the journey. You are so right and what perfect advice. Well, Dr. Becker, where can everybody find out more information about you and what you're doing and The Forever Dog? Where to Find More About Dr. Becker The Forever dog is easy. It's just ForeverDog.com. And my over arching website, if you want to know more about who you know more about who I am, or what I do is DrKarenBecker.com. Instagram: @drkarenbecker Facebook: @doctor.karen.becker Easy enough and that everything that Dr. Becker mentioned, of course, will be in the show notes as well. And your social media tags. I'll put those in too. So Dr. Becker, thank you. This journey that I've been on has been worth the wait just to have you on this Show. I can't believe it. It's so exciting. So thank you. Well, and thank you so much. I tell you, it is so wonderful to see how many proactive Wellness Advocates are creating platforms and information outlets that allow people to plug in and get the tools and the resources and the information they need. It's just a beautiful way that we're knitting together an international wellness community that really is making a big difference when it comes to creating healthier, happier animals. So thank you so much for the part that you're doing. Oh, I appreciate you, Dr. Becker. Thanks so much. Thanks again to our sponsor Genie’s Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode. Fetch some Genie’s Therapeutics Hemp Signature Blend for your dog at GeniesTherapeutics.com. And be sure to use the code WOLspecial to receive free shipping and 10% off. Thanks again to Talking With the Dogs and their new Dog Talk Conversation Starter Cards for sponsoring this episode. Get your limited edition Dog Talk Cards by visiting DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off, plus free shipping if you order two or more boxes. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hi there! This is Krista with Episode #168 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. We are about to get into all of the benefits of coconut oil for your dog, but did you know that it is considered to have natural antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal properties? Well, I use coconut oil every day to brush Winston's teeth and he just loves the taste. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Co-Founders of Coco Therapy, and sisters, Charisa Antigua and Carmina O’Connor come from long line of coconut oil producers. Their family has been growing coconuts and making coconut oil for three generations in their family farm in the Philippines.  Their in-depth knowledge about coconut oil and fats, along with their certification in Companion Animal Nutrition, Charisa and Carmina are uniquely well-informed on animal nutrition and fats and lipids. Hello, dog lovers. Are you confused about giving your dog coconut oil? I think there's a lot of confusion out there. But we are here with Charisa Antigua and Carmina O'Connor, and they're going to help dispel the top coconut oil myths that are going out there and why it is very healthy to give your dog coconut oil. So ladies, I want to welcome you to the show. I've been so excited to have you on. Hi Krista. Thanks for having us. We're happy to be here. Good, good, good. Well, why don't you both quickly introduce yourselves and tell us what got you into animal nutrition. And especially passionate about coconut oil? I can start. I'm Carmina O'Connor. I'm Charisa. And we come from a family that's been making and producing coconuts. And we have a family farm and facility that has been making coconut products for three generations. So we've always been into coconut oil and coconut products. And so it's been a huge interest of our families. We've known the health benefits since we were little kids growing up, my grandmother used to use it for us, you know as medicine and food. And we also used to use it for our pets growing up. So that's how we got into it. And we've always been into animals and animal nutrition as well. You can tell them yeah, we've long time ago, decades ago, we did want to become veterinarians, but you know, the path we choose isn't necessarily the paths that's chosen for you. But we did take our we've completed our certification in companion animal nutrition with the University of Illinois. So that's one good thing that we did about over a year ago. So it really just helped layer all our knowledge, our love for nutrition and animals altogether. And I love coconut oil, which is why we started Coco Therapy. Three Types of Coconut Oil Okay, well, let's first break it down. There are three types of coconut oil. Can you tell us about the differences? Yeah, basically, the main types of coconut oil is the Therapeutic Grade coconut oil, which is what we sell and what we have. It's virgin coconut oil. It's unrefined and it's cold pressed. Ours is organic and non GMO verified as well. But this is really high levels of medium chain fatty acids, specifically lauric acid and very low moisture content. You do have cosmetic grade coconut oils and a lot of those are actually refined coconut oil so they can be bleached and you use hexane to extract the oil. They are deodorized a lot of them doesn't have any smell or taste of coconut. They are used in shampoos and conditioners for cosmetic reasons. So that's refined that's refined coconut oil and or that's yeah, and then there is also food grade coconut oil, which is meant for food and cooking. It's also it can be refined or unrefined. So virgin or not virgin either or, and the levels of lauric acid are also could be lower. So those are the main three different kinds of coconut oil. Okay, so if a coconut oil product says extra virgin, Is that any better? Is Extra Virgin Coconut Oil Better? No, there's actually no such thing as extra virgin when it comes to coconut oil. virgin coconut oil just means it's been unrefined they did not use any chemicals to make it to extract the oil from the coconut. Extra virgin is used in the olive oil industry for pressing. So when they say extra virgin, it's a first press for olive oil. But it doesn't work that way for coconut. So if they say extra virgin coconut oil, it's probably a marketing ploy. You can only press coconut oil once Yeah, you should press coconut oil once Yeah, once. Yeah, unlike olive oil, you're able to press the olives multiple times. So the word extra virgin applies to first press olive oil, but not coconut oil. Why Do Some Not Think Coconut Oil is Healthy? Okay, well, that's good to know. All right, let's the elephant in the room a couple of years ago. I mean, everybody was talking about coconut oil, and I love it for myself, I love it for my dog. And then a large dog magazine, all of a sudden published that coconut oil is not good for our dogs, everybody beware. And it became this big scare tactic almost. What happened? Well, I think there's first of all, coconut oil and fats in general is so misunderstood. Because there's a lot of people or some people who don't understand fats that say fats will cause inflammation. But what they don't really get into is there's so many different kinds of fats, and so many different kinds of reasons why fats cause inflammation. So an article came out and said that coconut oil specifically causes metabolic endotoxemia. So it sounds like a very scary word, but all it is it's basically metabolic is toxins produced in your body, metabolically. So are they say when you eat coconut oil, um, toxins are released in your blood, and it's bad for you, and it causes inflammation, but it's not quite accurate because so endotoxins live in our bodies have a bacteria, gram positive and gram negative bacteria good and bad. And there's, um, an endotoxin that lives on the outer casing of gram negative bacteria, called lipo polysaccharide, or LPs. So what happens is, we all know that coconut oil kills bacteria, specifically bad bacteria, it's antibacterial, right? So when you eat coconut oil, it kills the gram negative bacteria in your gut, in your intestines, what happens is, then the LPs and the gram negative bacteria is released into your bloodstream. But what's not mentioned is the LPS is dead. LPs are dead endotoxins fragments fragments of the bacteria. So what happens is when it gets out of your intestines and goes into your bloodstream, our body detects it, which is meant to and does a low level inflammation, create the white blood cells goes to these dead LPS attacks it and gets rid of it flushes it out, that's what the white blood cells, so it's low grade inflammation, when that's gone, it's gone. That's the end of that. And just to know that low grade inflammation is actually not harmful for your body or your dog's body. It's actually the way your body works every day, our bodies actually do that to get rid of any toxins in our body. So I think the fact that it was really hyped up to be something that causes it, and extremely dangerous was the angle that the article was going to towards. So the inflammation is a temporary action. And it's actually what teaches babies and puppies to have a healthier immune system. What people don't understand is Mother's Milk is has a high level of medium chain fatty acids found in colostrum. Yes, lauric acids. And so what happens is when babies or puppies drink mother's milk, it has high levels of lauric acid, it does the same thing. It's antibacterial. You know, when puppies and babies drink mother's milk, it prevents them from getting sick, which is why they say Oh, it's good to keep on the mother's milk, the first year of their life or for puppies that went on went up to when they're being weaned, it prevents them from getting sick, because they have that antibacterial function in the milk. It will kill you know, any bacteria or any invading bacteria, and infection. And there's a very low level immune response, and it trains the puppy or human babies to have a stronger immune system. So inflammation in itself is not a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, because it helps your immune system get stronger. How to Learn About Studies Right? That makes sense when you put it like that. So when this article came out, you know, they said there are studies, were those studies really on point or were they even on virgin coconut oil, like what you guys are recommending? That's a really, really good question. I'm glad you brought that up, because a lot of negative studies that talk negatively about coconut oil, if you look at the study carefully, a lot of them are using refined or hydrogenated coconut oil. Some of them are even mixed with beef tallow or other long chain fats. So they do that a lot just to do the diets in dogs. So that's, you know, one of the things that people don't realize they say coconut oil, they use that term so loosely and broadly. The other thing is the source of the study. Every time a study comes out, you have to look at who's funding it. You know this. It’s just science. And the study actually came out from a company that was promoting probiotics for animals, which obviously would help, you know, build their case for leaky gut, leaky gut. Exactly, which is why they said, Oh, it causes leaky gut and you know, and anything I feel like within the past couple of years, anything with the word coconut oil in it, and the article, whether it's good or bad, seems to have a high attraction towards, you know, searching, clickbait, that type of thing. That this article that you're mentioning, they also said a lot of negative things about lauric acid, and saturated fat in general. So I feel like they and they were promoting the idea that lauric acid is actually bad for you. So aside from the inflammatory response, they were saying lauric acid is very bad for you. It's a saturated fat, which again, is not accurate or long chain. They said it was a long chain saturated fat, but lauric acid is a medium chain saturated fat and not a long chain. This article actually stated that it was not a medium chain fat, which is not true. I mean, it not only are there studies that show that metabolically. Lauric acid behaves like a medium chain fat when it's metabolized. But if you look at chemistry databases, like ChemSpider, those type of chemistry oil databases, or the American Oil Chemistry Association, they classify lauric acid as a medium medium chain fatty acid so there is no I don't know there's really no question no question that it's a Yeah, but this article again said that it was a long chain fat so that was inaccurate. Difference Between MCTs and LCTs Well, to better prepare us for this information, can you dive into what is the difference between an MCT or medium chain triglyceride, as well as the long chain triglycerides, what is the difference in the fat itself? All fats are classified as their their chains of carbon atoms. So all fats are made out of carbon atoms, the longer the chain of carbon atoms, it's called a long chain fat, and the shorter the easier is to be metabolized. So long chain fats are 8-14 carbon atoms and higher up to 24. Whereas medium chain fats are 12 carbon atoms and lower and the reason why it's important is the body metabolizes these fats differently. So coconut oil is a medium chain fat. And all Coconut oil contains different fatty acids. Fatty acids are basically fat molecules. And there's different kinds of fatty acids. So lauric acid is one of them caprylic acid, these are all fatty acids, and they all have a different length of carbon atoms. So lauric acid is 12 carbon atoms capric is 10. Caprylic is eight carbon atoms. So which is why Capric and Caprylic products are broken down very rapidly by the by your liver and lauric acid a little bit longer, just because it's just a bigger molecule. So that's when they say medium chain fats, it's basically a shorter chain, a smaller molecule of fat. Is that true? The MCT s are easier? Yeah, much easier. So that's a difference. And it's not just easier to digest, it has a different metabolic pathway of how it's digested. All long chain fats need bile acids to be broken down. So the bile acids will emulsify the triglycerides. And then you need pancreatic lipase to break down it to into an individual medium chain fatty acids. Then it goes through the intestinal wall and it's carried by Kailo microns through the lymphatic system and it goes to the you know to different organs and parts of the body like adipose fat tissues, those are long chain fats. medium chain fats don't go through that it doesn't need bile for emulsification. It doesn't need pancreatic lipase to break down it goes straight through the portal vein and to the liver and it's broken down and as energy, ketones, that sort of thing, which is why medium chain fats are outstanding for even people who need to be in a low fat diets or animals or people with pancreatitis or any lipid disorders such as lymphatic ectasia. PLE. So any animal or people that cannot tolerate fats? medium chain fat is tolerable for them because they don't need the Pancreatic lipase or the bile enzymes. So make sense? Yeah, okay, so just to reiterate, people if your dog has pancreatitis, or has had it in the past, coconut oil is a good oil to give your dog you should not feel that oh my dog isn't a candidate because of the pancreatitis. And this makes sense. I didn't know that it bypasses the pancreas. Fascinating. And it goes for all, you know, there's a lot of dogs that need to be on low fat diets for whatever reason, right? So, but fat is an important macronutrient that animals need for energy, you cannot be without fat for that. So you have to substitute it with a fat that's healthy and that can be metabolized differently, which is why medium chain fats or medium chain MCTs are one of medically looked at as one of the healthiest and safest fats to give any person or dog with lipid disorders. Okay, well, we are going to take a quick sponsor break. So ladies, if you'll hold on, we will be right back. Thanks to our friends at AnimalBiome for sponsoring today's episode.  They are brilliant at applying science to improve your dog’s health.  Did you know that 60-70% of your dog’s immune cells are located in the gut microbiome?  And when their microbiome is out of balance, it can lead to inflammation associated with GI and skin issues.  My dog Winston was tested and the results were shocking!  He had way too many harmful bacteria and too few strains of the beneficial bacteria.  No wonder his immune system was always compromised!  Thanks to the AnimalBiome team for getting him back on track so that he can live a much healthier life!  Isn’t it time to test your dog’s gut health? Learn more by going to https://animalbiome.com/home and be sure to use the discount code WOL-20 for 20% off! Coconut Oil as Carrier Oil for CBD Welcome back everybody. Charisa and Carmina are here to talk to us about coconut oil and how it is beneficial for our dogs and ourselves. And this has been a little science class almost which I don't know if anybody listening has taken canine nutrition, but it is going back to school chemistry, biology there’s a lot to it. And I think we need to remind ourselves that dogs do not need carbohydrates to live. They thrive on proteins and fats as we're talking about right now. So ladies, I have heard you know, the CBD industry is huge. And everybody is jumping on this bandwagon. And some people have said, Oh, we can't use coconut oil as the carrier oil for CBD because it causes inflammation. What do you say to that? I think that's the most unfortunate fallacy I've ever heard. Because coconut oil is actually the best carrier oil for CBD because it's been shown to cross the blood brain barrier. There's actually studies in Japan that have shown that lauric acid itself, if it's not metabolized by the liver into ketones, it will cross the blood brain barrier and the brain will convert it to ketones. Brain ketones, which is different. So to use CBD with coconut oil, it's outstanding because you can bring that CBD straight to the brain. And the funny thing is to say that it's inflammatory is actually quite hilarious because coconut oil is the most anti inflammatory fat there is because coconut oil is a saturated fat, right? It's saturated with hydrogen atoms. Therefore it is stronger than a poly unsaturated fat or mono unsaturated fat. I've seen a lot of CBD that uses olive oil, for example, as a carrier, which is actually mono unsaturated. Yes, and it oxidizes quite rapidly compared to coconut oil. So that would be even more pro inflammatory than coconut oil. Cholesterol and Coconut Oil That's a great point. Well, since we're talking about fats, how is coconut oil when it comes to cholesterol? Because some people that is one of the myths, Oh, can't give it to myself for my dog because it's going to clog our arteries. In terms of dietary cholesterol, cholesterol is the lowest collected zero to 14 PPM as they call it parts per million. So if it's zero or less than 14, coconut oil, it hardly has it's a cholesterol free food. So coconut oil compared to say butter, it has a lot of cholesterol has very little cholesterol. And if you if you eat coconut oil, it actually improves your overall cholesterol level. The ratio overall cholesterol with the HDL, so it actually improves your HDL cholesterol levels and there's many studies that prove that yeah, so you don't have to worry about cholesterol increasing on their cholesterol levels from oil coconut oil increased. Yeah, well actually coconut oil actually helps increase levels of HDL to which you want higher HDL compared to the LDL, which is the harmful cholesterol. And you know, quite contrary to popular belief, when you consume fat, it, it doesn't really provide that cholesterol in your body. A lot of you know, people think that if you eat cholesterol, that's what gives you cholesterol, but your liver actually creates the cholesterol. So the way it's metabolized, actually, is what makes a huge difference. One of the metabolites, what people have found that dietary cholesterol, you know, remember, I don't know if you've heard of studies, so eggs are very high cholesterol, shrimp, etc. So if you have a high cholesterol, they say, oh, eat a low cholesterol diet, no eggs for, you no shrimp, anything that has high cholesterol. But what the latest studies and is, I think widely accepted knowledge is for dietary cholesterol that you eat, and you know that only 1/10 of the cholesterol in that diet is actually used by your body. So it doesn't even impact the cholesterol in your levels. But in your body, what impacts it is your liver making cholesterol. So that's it's hereditary. Exactly. But But again, but see, this is what people don't know about animals. So that's what we just you know what we talked about pertains to human beings, but animals, cats and dogs, mainly, they naturally have a higher HDL level than people. So animals by design, biologically, they can process a lot more fat than people, they actually eat a highly saturated fat diet, and they can handle it way better than people can just because of their naturally higher HDL levels in their body. I don't know if you've heard about the study. I can't remember the name of the doctor that came up with this study where he allowed wild animals and dogs to forage on food that they provided. And that what they realized, raw food/raw fat… and they found out that the wolves, they did it with wolves and the dogs, they would gorge on fat first and be full, you know, filled with a fat and then he would do protein next and then the entrails which would contain some of the carbs. So they would eat an extremely high amount of fat and without any risk of heart disease or arthrosclerosis, or any of that type of disease. Even More Benefits of Coconut Oil And that was self selection. That makes a lot of sense. All right, everybody, we just busted some myths. Coconut oil does not cause pancreatitis. It is not inflammatory. It is. Yes, it's an antibacterial, but it's not going to kill the good bacteria in your gut or your dog's gut. And then we just talked about how coconut oil is not high in cholesterol. So ladies, let's go down the list of all the benefits of feeding our dogs, coconut oil. Coconut oil is again a macronutrient that it doesn't it may not supplying vitamins and minerals, but it is a macronutrient that does supply the healthy beneficial fats. So it helps your body boost the immune system. The way we explained it earlier. It actually protects antiviral, antifungal, antimicrobial, so it helps detox an animal's body. It helps with inflammation and helps to heal the gut and then the mucosal lining. And to bring it down to level we get a lot of letters on a daily basis. And we just got one today actually a little chihuahua, where it helps with allergies. And there's just so many reasons for allergies. And it could probably a lot of it is because of an overactive immune system. So coconut oil helps modulate an overactive immune system, which is why it helps with allergies. caprylic acid is known to kill yeast. So if the dog has systemic yeast issues, just feeding coconut oil helps with the systemic yeast issues. You can also use it to clean the ears like topically. It's also great for dogs and again, I cannot. I mean there's so many studies both with animals and people how it helps with seizures, tons of studies with Alzheimer's, you know, dementia, because frankly, the ketones in the brain as well feeds the brain that help gives energy to your brain cells. Exactly. So there's so many studies that help that provide…in fact, a lot of the people that buy our MCT oil, which is strictly has a higher level of Caprylic and capric acid a little bit lower lauric acid, it is really helping the dog mitigate the seizures. It's also great for animals with cancer just because it's anti inflammatory as well. Oh my gosh. And when you talk about topical treatments, I know wounds and cuts. Some people say it repels mosquitoes and fleas. Have you guys heard that as well? Yeah, we've heard that and the Philippines and we were kids. We would play outside we would get head lice. My grandmother used to put coconut oil in our hair and just just rub it in our scalp. None of those nasty lice killers that you get are poisonous. Yeah, it's basically just coconut oil in our hair and scalp and it kills them. So we've heard a lot of customers that would say that when their dog would get flea infestations. Dogs and basically smother the fleas. That's really Yeah, helpful. You can rub it on their paws and their noses for Cracked dry skin and wounds. It's basically a first aid kit in a jar. Exactly. Well, speaking of in the jar, of course, and this is for everybody that's seeing this on video, I have the Coco Therapy, virgin coconut oil that I use to brush Winston's teeth, because it is anti microbial. And he loves it. I mean, he he's standing there waiting for that jar to be open and it tastes great. So why not? And you know, one of the world's perfect proteins is eggs. So if you don't give your dog raw eggs, you can always do you know, a little scrambled eggs in coconut oil. And oh my gosh, your dog will thank you for that. You're lucky dog. He's very lucky. So we just went through some of the benefits. There are a lot of benefits and Coco Therapy. I just have some of the products here. For those again on video. I mean, it makes me hungry, and I should probably try one of these. You've got Maggie's macaroons, and just plain old coconut chips. Delicious. The pina colada, coconut and pineapple. I mean, what dogs don't and cats. I'm sure don't go crazy for this. So I would love for you guys to share. How do people find out more about the Cocoa Therapy products? Where do they go and learn more about the facts about coconut oil and your actual products and how they're made. They can go to our website, cocoa therapy.com. And we have a blog section. If they click on blogs, and they can read we publish about two blogs a month, every other week. And we talk about everything from the benefits the science, ketogenic diets, so they can learn up and metabolic endotoxemia. So they can learn more about coconut coconut oil differences. So that's the best way to learn. I think it's via our blogs. Yeah, I think you sign up for the newsletters too get like our newsletters that we send out. Website: www.CocoTherapy.com Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CocoTherapy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cocotherapy/ Oh, those are great. Yes. Okay, perfect. Well, hopefully, we have piqued everybody's interest that Coco Therapy is you guys are the experts on coconut oil. And you've given us a lot to think about that it's not scary that it is actually beneficial. What would you like to leave us with today? I think that people should try it. Because a lot of veterinarians actually recommend it is actually very safe. It's great to use topically and orally, we recommend that people rotate it with fish oil as well just just, you know, to have an overall more variety in their diet, and just basically not to be afraid of it. Yeah, I think knowledge knowledge is the more you know, the less fear you'll have. So basically just learn more about it. Yeah. And Krista just really quick. My dog is actually on a Ketogenic style diet where she has a higher fat content and lower carbs. And this is just how she eats on a normal basis. So and she's very Yeah, yeah, she gets about 69% fat in her diet, and about 30% protein. And doing amazing, I'm sure Doing fantastic. Well, ladies, thank you for setting us straight. I want to just tell you how much I appreciate you being on. I know it's been a while since we chatted. But you know, we're not the only ones in the world that say coconut oil is amazing. Don't believe everything that you read. And if you are looking at a study, really dissect it, you know, what are they looking at? What are they using, and you guys have to educate yourselves again to be the best advocate for your dog. So, ladies, thank you for being here today. I'm going to put all of your links in the show notes as well. And we'd love to have you back on. Thanks for having Thanks, Krista. Thanks so much for having us. Thanks again to the team at AnimalBiome for sponsoring this episode.  Learn more by going to animalbiome.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL-20 for 20% off.  Your dog will thank you! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Happy New Year everyone! This is Krista with Episode #167 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Canine Cognitive Dysfunction, or CCD, is the medical term for age related dog dementia. And it is a progressive disease that is more common than you might think. And studies show that about 50% of dogs over the age of 11 display at least one sign of CCD. And for dogs 15 to 16 years of age, the prevalence goes up to 68%. Now, it's a difficult process to watch a beloved dog go through, and many dogs with CCD lose all pleasure in their life, so they no longer respond to their own name. They stare at walls, they don't engage socially, they urinate inside, won't eat, don't perk up. So there are things that can be done to slow the progression and the key is to keep an eye out for the symptoms. And the sooner you act, the better the outcome and it can be as simple as a change in diet, the addition of certain supplements, bodywork, light, exercise, and of course enrichment activities. Last but not least, play your part with lots of patience and affection. You know time with our pups is limited, so savor every minute with them. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Lisa Spector's Juilliard degree has gone to the dogs, and she couldn't be more thrilled. Spector's piano recordings for dogs are soothing pets in over 1,500 shelters worldwide. Featured on NPR, The CBS Early Show, CBS Australia, and DOGTV, Lisa is the only classical pianist to reach Billboard’s Classical Top 20 Chart with pet music.  Lisa is the host of The My Zen Pet podcast and the founder of The Dog Gone Calm Club. Her latest album, Dog Gone Calm, Vol. 1 can be heard on all streaming channels. Hello dog lovers and thanks so much for tuning in to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. I am super excited to have the Pet Calming Maestro Lisa Spector with us today. And we're going to be talking about dog gone calm and the benefits of canine sound therapy for both ends of the leash. And I want you to make sure that your pups are around for this segment because Lisa is going to be playing some live music samples that your dog will for sure enjoy. So Lisa, thank you. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much, Krista. It's an honor to be here. Well, we're gonna have some fun. So before we get into it, you've got a lot of credentials, so I need for you to introduce yourself and share. How did you come to be the Pet Calming Maestro? Well, in 2017 NPR called me the Pet Calming Maestro and I decided to stick with that. I joke in my podcast, that my Juilliard degree has gone to the dogs, and I couldn't be more thrilled. I did not plan to be playing concerts and make recordings for dogs when I went to Julliard, but sometimes the best things in life happen by seemingly accident. My biggest passions are dogs and music. And they just came together. Way back in 2003 when I was a volunteer puppy raiser for Guide Dogs for the Blind and professionally, I owned a music school. And I started wanting to learn about different prescriptions of music that would calm my four year olds, a wild class of four year olds, and they'd come in happy and screaming and I needed to get their attention. So I started exploring different kinds of music. And in the process, I found music that helped calm and focus them in 30 seconds flat. And I looked over to my I was volunteer puppy raiser for Guide Dogs for the Blind. And I looked over to my four month old puppy and he was snoozing in no time. And I thought I am onto something. And that's how it all began. That is so cool. Well, another thing that people need to know is that you are the only classical pianist to reach Billboard’s Classical Top 20 chart with pet music. That is pretty cool. I was pretty excited about that one. Yeah. What is Sound Therapy for Dogs? Lisa, let's talk about sound we all know. I mean, we're filming this in July, we just had July 4, come and go. I know we're not releasing until the beginning of the year, but fireworks, one of the huge stressors and that is sound. So we have to remind ourselves that dogs can hear three times higher frequencies and sound than we can and because it is is such a huge sensorial pathway for our dogs, it's cool to know that music can reach them so deeply and calm them. So can you talk to us about the science and what's going on? Sure. So first of all, the dogs definitely hear their Hertz range is much greater than ours, it's not quite three times, it's like two to two and a half. And then cats hear twice as high, almost twice as high. And far as dogs, which is you have to think about distance, location and frequency. So even though this is being published, the beginning of the year, and many parts of the Year New Years, the fireworks, I know in the UK, the fireworks gone for weeks, like three weeks into January. And when you think about sound, every year, first of all, it gets worse in our human households. Because technology, there's more and more technology and more and more appliances make beeps at the end of when the washing machine is done the dryer the dishwasher. Then there's the technology beeps of the emails and all the dings and the text messages. Well, we know what those sounds are. We know those are safe sounds we know what they're for. Dogs don't know that dogs are always trying to orient the source of the sound. Where's it coming from? Is it safe? Is there a pattern? Dogss are always looking for pattern? Is there a pattern do I need to protect us and they're always on alert. And every dog is different, you might have a dog who's so sound phobic, and it's very obvious because he goes under the bed or hides in the bathtub during construction noise or thunderstorms or fireworks. And you might have a dog who's just panting and pacing. And maybe a dog who's just not comfortable can't settle down. So it's all different degrees. And sometimes the most subtle signs of sound sensitivities are right in front of us, and we don't always see them. So dogs are always trying to alert where is the sound coming from? And is it safe. So I know like for example, when I years ago, when I drink a lot of tea, when I got a water kettle, that pinged at the end, you know, when the water is boiled the first time when I had two dogs at the time, and the first time the dogs were in the dog bed, and they looked up and they're like, where's that sound? Is it safe? Where is it coming from? And you know, a few minutes later, they put their head down. So the next day, they didn't lift their heads, they just lifted their ears. The third day, they didn't do anything, because by the third day they knew it was safe, nothing happened. So they're always trying to figure out that information. But we also have to keep in mind dogs hear a higher frequency assuming it's you know, a younger dog that hasn't lost hearing a higher frequency than we do and a longer distance. So they may also be hearing sounds that we don't and so sounds like the buzz very commonly dryers you know, the buzzer goes off, the clothes are dry. I've had people tell me oh my god, my dog is so afraid to go into the garage. It turns out he wasn't afraid at all of the garage. He was afraid of the buzzing of the dryer in the garage. So nowadays, the good news is some appliances. I'm noticing they're making it optional to turn off those sounds. And I invite your listeners to turn off those sounds. Even if you don't have a sensitive sound sensitive dog, or you don't think you do very oftentimes, it's really common dogs change behavior as they mature. I have a 13 year old lab who used to be bombproof with like pretty much anything destruction. She's not anymore. And so she's did fine during the fireworks, but she is more sound sensitive. She's just you know, she's 13 she's always is it safe? All right. So canine sound therapy to the rescue. What is it? So canine sound therapy is music designed for dogs. Sometimes it's written for dogs. I have one piece written by a current day composers, Zach Gulaboff Davis is on my album. Sometimes it's music I take you know, I'm a classical pianist, so I take the great composers, Bach and Beethoven and Chopin and Mozart. I can't make that music any better. But sometimes there's some subtle little things I can do to it. That is more conducive to calming dogs for example, I have a Chopin Prelude. It starts out fortissimo. It is really loud, that could charge your dog's nervous system I want to discharge so all I do is I take that fortissimo really loud. I play a pianississimo which is very soft. I play it at a slow tempo, and it has a very steady beat. So the components of canine sound therapy are lower frequencies. So I'm going to come back to that to lower frequencies at the end because it has the longest explanation. Slow down tempo, soft and long legato lines that you'll hear in this sample I'm going to play for you and your listeners. So long legato means how we use our voice. So this comes back to lower frequencies. When you're talking, you know, saying goodnight to Fido, at the end of the day, you usually instinctually just go into a lower, long legato voice, good girl, good boy, that's legato and it's slower. If your dog is crossing the street and you see a car coming guaranteed, you're not going to be using a low voice, you're going to be using a high pitch short staccato. And I don’t want to say it. My dog’s right here, and very calm, but short staccato, you're going to call them very quickly, in short sounds because that charges their nervous system, which is what you want to do when you want to get their attention and basically change their pattern, you know, come right to you. So how we use our voice and how we use the sounds in our, in our environment, in addition to music and canine sound therapy can be really helpful. Music in Shelters Yeah, that makes sense. And I love to tell the listeners that this works. So well. I mean, this is science, that your music is played in shelters and rescue organizations because of the calming effect, right? One of my greatest honors, seriously of my life is that the music I've recorded for dogs has helped increase adoption rates in shelters, for several reasons. One is because it's for both ends of the leash, so it's calming for people. So when people are visiting shelters, and they're in a calm state hearing this music, they stay longer, and they stay longer visit, visitors stay longer, and then adoptions increase, and then also dogs become calmer. And I'll never forget one of the first stories. You know, when I started this project when I was in my previous company, and I started the music in shelters program, a shelter manager called me in tears and said, Lisa, I am crying because this is the first phone call I've been able to make from my desk for 10 years. Because the dogs are quiet. They stopped barking and I have to tell you about Trello a dog who was here a year and had so much anxiety and couldn't get adopted. And then he listened to your music. And he calmed down and he got adopted. That's beautiful. I mean, that says it right there. That's amazing. That's why I'm so proud that my Juilliard degree has gone to the dogs. Yes, exactly. Well, why don't we take this opportunity to have you play a little bit because I'm sure the listeners would like to get a taste of what this canine sound therapy would sound like and I can listen to you play forever. So let's just take a few minutes, we're going to listen to Lisa and if your dog is around, just watch them during this part of the episode. You know, how are they reacting? What are they doing? So Lisa, I'm gonna let you take it away. Lisa Plays a Calming Piece on Her Piano Sure, I just gonna say one thing is I'm going to circle back to the lower frequencies because that’s what this piece is about. This is my own arrangement of a Vilvaldi piece, the four seasons for violin solo, which is a high frequency beautiful instrument but a high frequency that could charge your dog's nervous system and string orchestra. So I rearranged it for left hand only there's three reasons I play for left hand only. One is because lower frequencies which my left hand is playing in this case I've talked about calms the canine nervous system. Two is because I had hand injury five years ago and for two years, I couldn't use my right hand at the piano. I'm playing concerts with two hands but it gave me good exposure to left hand music. And three is because my dog Gina loves it when I have my right hand free to pet her when I'm playing the piano. Of course. You're so talented. Bravo. Beautiful. Lisa. Gina's snoring I don't know if you can hear. Of course she is. Well, Winston is right by me curled up and snoring as well. Beautiful. Are there other types of music that dogs do best with? Obviously, classical piano is very calming for them. But wasn't there a study that said, reggae is also good music for dogs? Studies About Music that Calms Dogs The one I had this idea back in 2003, there had only been one research study in 2001 by an Irish behaviorist, Deborah Wells. And she had done a study actually in San Francisco testing different kinds of music in a control group and also TV sounds on dogs in the shelter environment and found that classical music was conducive to calming the dogs in the shelter environment, causing them to lay down, stop panting, and so forth. And I wasn't surprised at all by that I've had dogs my entire life and they always gravitated towards the piano. But here's the thing. All classical music is not created equally, if I put on a classical music station, and back in the days before it was an app, and it was timed, you know everyone at three o'clock it was programmed to charge the human nervous system because everyone generally gets tired, you know, the mid afternoons, and they might have the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, with 140 piece orchestra or Tchaikovsky, 18 film overture with cannons coming out. That is not what you want to be playing for dogs event like Rachmaninoff second piano sonata, that's like virtuostic and loud and fast. That's not what I want to play when my I wanted to calm my dog. So first of all, all classical music isn't created equal. And then second of all, since then, there have been many, many studies. And one of them did say that reggae was helpful for calming dogs, I haven't tried it, I'm just will say the classical has worked for my dogs and the dogs that I know and the dogs that I've cared for. And every dog is different. So I would say, play different things for your dog at different volumes, I want to get back to talking about volume that's so important, because you don't want to play it too loud, but play different kinds of music and see Do they gravitate towards the source of the sound do they go towards the speakers do they go away. However, there's a big variable component in that which is you. We love our dogs, because they love us so much. And they will do anything to be near our side. So if you're in a household where your teenager’s playing rap in one room, your husband's watching a football game in another and you're listening to jazz in another, they're gonna put themselves in the middle of that cacophony of sound or near their favorite person. So people say all the time, like, well, I play violin, I play flute, that's high frequency, my dog’s always near me, of course, because you're attached to that instrument. But play, you know, flute on the stereo and see what happens to them. So I like to say I create music that is really designed to calm and soothe both ends of the leash. It’s based on research for dogs, but it also helps humans. And I’m going to cut you off right here. We're just going to take a quick sponsor break, and we're going to continue this amazing conversation. So hold on everybody. Thanks to our friends at AnimalBiome for sponsoring today's episode.  They are brilliant at applying science to improve your dog’s health.  Did you know that 60-70% of your dog’s immune cells are located in the gut microbiome?  And when their microbiome is out of balance, it can lead to inflammation associated with GI and skin issues.  My dog Winston was tested and the results were shocking!  He had way too many harmful bacteria and too few strains of the beneficial bacteria.  No wonder his immune system was always compromised!  Thanks to the AnimalBiome team for getting him back on track so that he can live a much healthier life!  Isn’t it time to test your dog’s gut health? Learn more by going to https://animalbiome.com/home and be sure to use the discount code WOL-20 for 20% off! And we are back with Lisa Spector, the Pet Calming Maestro, and Lisa, I'm sorry, I cut you off before we went on that commercial break. You know, we were talking about the types of music and you were gonna say something about reggae. Reggae for Dogs? Yeah, so it's you know, do you like it? And is it something that you want left on all day if you're home alone, I'm, I'm more of a classical music fan. So introduce your dog to different music people asked me all the time Do dogs prefer Bach, Beethoven, Brahms or Chopin? It doesn't work like that. It just doesn't work like that. It's all because there's certain parts of Beethoven there's certain parts of Bach, there's certain parts, or certain parts of Beethoven, I would not want my dog listening to if she were home alone. It's very virtuosic. A lot of surprises a lot of rest. That's what Beethoven was all about. There's other Beethoven like the opening the first movement of Moonlight Sonata, it's very predictable patterns. It's very different. So it's really not about the composer, but it's about the things I talked about earlier about the lower frequencies, the slow tempo, the predictable patterns, and so forth. And, you know, observe your dog because they're all different in my entire life. And all the dogs I've known, and I've visited and cared for and known a lot. I've only met one who had a specific preference for certain composers, certain pieces of music they recognized. Beats Per Minute Okay, so is it safe to say, music with less beats per minute, are better for dogs? If you want to calm your dog, then beats you know, generally from 40 to 100 beats per minute is a good tempo, and a consistent tempo. So in other words, like I play an orchestral arrangement, on my album, Dog Gone Calm, I played one of my favorite pieces by Algarve Commons from the Enigma Variations. It’s the Nimrod movement. But I love it for dogs, because it's very, on piano, their piano arrangement, it's very steady beat is consistent, I play this really loud section soft, and I keep that beat really, really steady. And so it's also about, you know, the pattern is not changing. It's not like in the middle of it, there's this big virtuoso section. And that happens, you know, when you're listening to classical music, which is such a broad term. I mean it is 600 years, and it could be one instrument, it could be 140 pieces, orchestra. And so it's so broad, but when you genuinely when you listen to classical music, and let's say you're listening in the car, do you ever notice you're trying to have a conversation, you're constantly adjusting the volume, because classical music, it's up and it's down, and it's up in one room, it's loud, and one room is slow and soft. And it's you know, it's constant. So I remove all that. I no longer make rearrangements of classical music, you know, unless it's just for left hand. I used to do that in my previous company. But then research came out and said, classical music that's not rearranged, is actually more conducive to calming dogs in the shelter environment. So instead of making rearrangements, I take sections, and I play things soft, and I but I'm still playing what the composer wrote. Okay, at least I know myself, you know, when we leave the house, we put classical piano on for Winston, I would assume that dogs that have separation anxiety, that if you play said music, just when you're leaving, then it's probably going to have the opposite effect. Then they say, Oh, they're playing that music. That means they're leaving me Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna freak out. So play it at other times as well, to get them used to it. When to Play Calming Music for Your Dog Exactly. So think of music that's designed for dogs. Think of canine sound therapy as a thing. It's invisible, but it's a thing. So just like you'd want to condition your dog that let's say your dog doesn't like I was training Gina, she's older and trying to get her to use a ramp. And she's not really comfortable. So I'm training her that the ramp means cookies are coming, you know, so I introduce her to the ramp, she gets cookies, and then she takes one step and she gets more cookies and she takes so she I'm changing her association. But it's it's kind of easier in a mindset because it's a big physical thing. Music is also a thing, it's just invisible. So you can actually condition your dog that the music means to be calm. So that's why veterinarians use it prescriptively use my music prescriptively to condition your dog that listen together. You know have a ritual like before bedtime. Have a half an hour where you’re just listening together and then the dog begins an association of I get it this music means to be calm, everything's good with the world. My person is with me they build that association and do that you know for about a week or so before you gradually introduce it when you're when you're gone. And the other thing I just want to get back to because it's so important is volume. Because people do this all the time, particularly when the dogs are alone. It doesn't need to be loud it even when there's fireworks and all that it's not about overshadowing sounds, it's not going to overshadow the construction going on whenever it's about calming the canine nervous system. So oftentimes, you know, I'm so proud that music I've recorded is being played in 1500 shelters, but I go into one of those shelters and it's too loud, and it drives me crazy. And then dogs hear, you know, their hertz capacity range is so much more than us. And I think, Oh, my God is going to drive them crazy. I would go nuts. If I heard my own music way too loud all day long, I would just go bonkers. So play it at a gentle volume for you, and maybe then drop it down a tiny bit notch up in volume for your dog. Because it's not about blasting it. It's about what is comfortable for your dog. When to Play Music for Your Dog Thank you for adding that that makes sense. So in addition to the scary fireworks or the thunderstorms, other instances where I can believe that this will help calm them is you know, if you have people coming over, if you have to take your dog to the veterinarian, that's not usually a good time for them. So car rides, maybe as everybody settles into bed, you know, that can be a great start. Exactly. Whenever you know, who doesn't need to be calm right now? I mean over these last few years whenever you need to de stress and decompress and you know have that time together with your dog and use it for your benefit. Because no matter how calm you want your dog to be, if you're not calm, your dog’s gonna pick up on whatever energy so work, that's why you might really want to work on both ends of the leash. And it also can be used for prevention of canine anxiety. So it's, you know, if you have a puppy or a newly adopted three year old dog, and it's like, doesn't seem to be sound phobic or sound sensitive. It's always good to start because guaranteed it can't do any harm. Right? Well, I know you probably have tons of stories of how your music has benefited calming dogs. Can you think of just one or two stories on how everybody wins? Yes. So this goes back quite a few years. And I heard so. I don't know what year was it? You know, at least 15 years ago, when all the Michael Vick dogs when that whole story, the whole fighting dogs got rescued. And we're trying many of them were, could not be rehabilitated. And my music helped several of them. And I remember Little Red, just hearing how much it helped her through her rehabilitation that she got to be she went from being a Michael Vick fighting dog against her will to being a calm pet, household member, love member of the family that could be around other dogs that could be comfortable with people that it took a long time to you know, she was so cowardly and so shy but the music helped her open up and I remember getting an email from her person. I believe her name was Susan saying Lisa for the first time she opened her belly to me. She let me touch her and your music was playing. I have to say of all the stories. Even that one surprised me that my music that I had recorded could make that much of a change in a dog I was kind of blown away. Ah Love it, love it. Well we talk about your music. How do people tune in to your music? Where do we find it? So there are several ways it's streaming my album Dog Gone Calm is streaming all the you know Apple Music and Spotify and Amazon music and all those. And by the time this is published I will have a new album with Meditating With Your Dog. That will be out and that's coming from my podcast. My Zen Pet is my podcast the first podcast with music for pet stress. And if your listeners want to get training tips with using canine sound therapy with using music to help your dog's anxiety issues go to MyZenpet.com/tips and Krista you will also win Oh, because you're a member, in my Dog Gone Calm Club, where we help you recognize your dogs sound sensitivities, we help, you know with treatment and it's not only music, I have guest experts going into everything from separation anxiety, to animal communicators to building chemistry with your dog. I mean such interesting conversations working with aggression with dogs. And then I also do monthly Dog Gone Calm concerts for the members and their dogs. It's you know, who doesn't want their dog on the Zoom screen instead of you? Exactly. Oh, people, it is amazing. Again, it's the Dog Gone Calm Club. Great for all dogs and all people. It's fantastic. And the members are wonderful as well. It's a great community. So Lisa, as we run out of time, so quickly, unfortunately, what would you like to leave us with? Before we check out today? Social: IG https://www.instagram.com/my_zen_pet/ FB http://facebook.com/myzenpet LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaspector/ Website: www.MyZenPet.com I'd love to leave your listeners with a little bit of a short assignment that will help create a sound friendly canine household for you. Take a few minutes, just sit on the sofa, you have your dog. Next you sit on the sofa, take a notepad and just listen to all the sounds you hear. What do you hear inside? What do you hear outside, don't make a judgement just write them all down what you're hearing. And then after that half hour is up or you know, minutes, 15 minutes, make a checkmark next to all of the ones in your control. You can't control the motorcycle going by outside, but you can control appliance sounds more and more. So now that we can control what we turn off. You can control electronic sounds and turn off your notifications and your devices. There's a lot of ways that you can control the TV sounds, computer sounds, so forth. So see what you can do to control the sounds in your environment. So you really start to think of Sound Health for your dog is just as important as nutrition and training and exercise and all the other things that we all love to do for our dogs their sound environment. You have control over it. They don't unless you have a dog who's smart enough to turn on his own or her own playlist. You're in control of that. So I invite you to take charge of that and do what you can control and make that a sound friendly dog environment for you and your dog. Perfect advice. Lisa, this has been wonderful. And I have no doubt that our listeners learned something new today. So all of the information on how to find Lisa and those tips that she mentioned as well at My Zen Pet It's going to be in the show notes with links to everything. So everybody, thank you for tuning in. Let's have a better sound therapy world for ourselves and our dogs. And Lisa, I want to thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much Krista. I love talking to you always a pleasure. Thanks again to the team at AnimalBiome for sponsoring this episode.  Learn more by going to animalbiome.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL-20 for 20% off.  Your dog will thank you! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Happy Howl-i-days everyone! This is Krista with Episode #166 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Did you know that humans share about 85% of their DNA with dogs? Well, this fact makes dogs useful animals to study human disease processes. But researchers are particularly interested in specific diseases that affect both dogs and humans. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Billie Groom shares with us her experiences, knowledge and expertise gained from 34 years working with rescued dogs and the people who love them. She is an animal advocate, behaviorist, author, podcast host, and expert in Canine Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.  Billie is the creator of UPWARD Dogology, a scientifically proven methodology for addressing anxiety and aggression, and behaviors common in adopted, rescued, and adolescent dogs.   Welcome all dog lovers to a another fantastic Wag Out Loud pawdcast episode. And today we're hearing from an amazing person that I couldn't wait to share with you all. We have Billie Groom, and she is on the topic of canine cognitive behavioral therapy. And it is just fascinating. She is about to blow your mind. So Billyie first of all, I want to thank you for being on the Show. And I'm going to ask you to please introduce yourself and fill us in on your fascination about this canine cognitive behavior therapy. Hi, Krista. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here too. We've known each other a while. And I'm super excited to be here. Thanks so much. Yes, I am an expert on canine cognitive behavioral therapy, which did not happen overnight by any means. I started about three and a half decades ago, somewhere around there, with the goal of working with adolescent dogs in particular, rescued ones, ones with unconventional paths, although that has developed into dogs that have had wonderful upbringings and puppyhoods as well, to just to learn about why that adolescent stage is so challenging and why a lot of dogs are surrendered and euthanized during that age. Why rescue organizations have a hard time homing those dogs are a lot of them are, are brought in and to shelters as well. So I worked with them. And over the time, I created and developed a formula that follows the principles and guidelines of cognitive behavioral therapy. Well, why don't we first of all, before we get started, because there's a lot of information that you have to share, what exactly is it if I was to meet you in an elevator and you're gonna give me your speech? What is canine cognitive behavioral therapy? What is Canine Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? Well, cognitive behavioral therapy is for humans as well. And it changes perception to change behavior, which doesn't make it a better method than any other method. Conditioning methods are designed operant conditioning is designed to teach. It's designed to encourage wanted behavior and discourage unwanted behavior. If you're using both sides of operant conditioning, counter conditioning uses associative techniques and desensitization to change behavior, which then changes perception. CBT changes perception to change behavior. So that's a long elevator ride. But what that really means is that the, the formula that you follow the principles are different. The reason it works well, in the adolescent stage is because they have preconceived thought patterns, whereas puppies you're teaching. It's designed to teach. That's why operant conditioning is so good with puppies. And in particular, you know, we'd like to stick with that positive reinforcement training, but I don't work with puppies. I work with adolescent dogs and adult dogs. So the reason you get this with the adolescent dogs. Do you want me to hop right into it? Yeah, let's talk about it. Okay, so we're out of the elevator here. Yeah. Very tall building. And we like to go up and down. So what happens in the adolescent stages, you there's that just that design of operant conditioning, where it's designed to teach. Dogs in the adolescent stage often know right from wrong, they know what you're trying to get them to do, and that's when you get pet parents saying, Oh, my dog knows Come when called, My dog is just deciding not to do it. This is like teenagers, human teenagers, so they know what they're supposed to do, but they have these excitable neurons just oh, I want to go. They're not thinking about consequences. They're thinking about themselves. They're thinking about how to get their own way how to have fun. Or if you have a dog from the street, that has learned that barking and lunging keeps dogs at bay or keeps people at bay, they're just going to do this because they've learned this. And so if you continue to use methods that are designed to teach, and to encourage and discourage, this can cause them to be frustrated, and cause them to think you don't understand why I'm doing this, you're not working with my brain. You're not connecting and communicating with me and some dogs, you can just continue to use non harmful forms of operant conditioning and positive reinforcement training all the way through adolescence. When I say adolescence, I'm talking about eight months to two years, you could use that all the way through, and it totally works. Absolutely. But a lot of times it doesn't. And that's purely based on the intent of the method. CBT is intended to change perception, which is not the same as changing emotions. We don't change emotions, dogs will feel the way they feel they have their emotions. But when they perceive their environment differently, they make different decisions. And they have a different perception, which changes their emotion, which changes their behavior. So when you have dogs in the adolescent stage, without getting too deep, actually, this is, as I've been going through my three decades, I've been learning more about CBT. So when I started working with dogs, I didn't learn CBT and then apply it to dogs. I actually learned from dogs, what worked with them, and then worked with veterinarians and psychologists who informed me that my method adhered to the principles of CBT. And so then I started to really study CBT. And then recently, I've taken a course, that was put on by Dr. Kathy Murphy, who runs Barking Brains. And is part of behavioral veterinarians, the course was, and it was a four week course. And it really got into the brain development of dogs in different stages. And for me, this was completely enlightening. It completely explained why CCBT is effective in the adolescent stage based on neurogenesis, brain development versus other methods. And a lot of it is, as I said, with operant conditioning, it's just simply the design or the principles and what they're intended to achieve. But with counter conditioning, it actually has to do with the brain development. So that's my dog in the background. I don't know if he's playing with his toys, throwing it around and trying to get himself comfy and play with his story. So what happens in the adolescent stage is you, you have these excitable neurons, but they haven't quite developed inhibitory neurons. So inhibitory neurons are ones where we stop think process before reacting. So we're thinking about consequences, those develop in early adulthood. So counter conditioning relies on associative techniques, and desensitization. So when you're using those, you need inhibitory neurons, they dramatically increase the effect of counter conditioning, which is why counter conditioning can be effective in adulthood, but not so much in the adolescent stage. What else is happening is you have your hippocampus, which is the part of the brain that is memory, long term memory, and it's connected to the amygdala, which is emotions in particular fear. So these two work together. And what happens in the adolescent stage is because there's a lack of the inhibitory neurons, the hippocampus is sending what's happening around it and quickly ascending to amygdala and I'm putting this in I'm not a neuroscientist, but this is what what is literally happening. So the amygdala is saying, Oh, no, you have to be fearful of this or you have to react without stopping and thinking. What canine CBT does is actually provides dogs with that ability to reset the brain, stop, think, process, and then make a decision. That decision is not they're not being told that decision, we're not telling them how to think that's different than providing option. So canine enrichment, for example, does reach the cognitive side of the brain as what CCBT is doing. We're reaching that cognitive side of the brain that develops in that adolescent time and they make decisions differently than they do when they’re a puppy. And so we need to harness those cognitive skills. Just like think of kids, you know, they start to think differently, and they question things and they, they start to want to make their own decisions. And, you know, you can provide options, like I said, which is what canine enrichment does blue ball, green ball or go through the hoop as opposed to the tunnel, things like that. Options are different than decisions. Decision, I'm not providing dogs with options, I'm providing them with the ability to make decisions. And they make better decisions when they stop and process and think. And those are the skills that we teach. And these are done through exercise driven skills. And these do not need to be done in the challenging situations when you get desensitization. desensitization involves what it is that is stimulating that behavior. So if it's a bike, you need to desensitize the dog to bikes by having bikes there. Now it might be done with bikes really far away, or bikes being ridden really slowly controlled so that you're not flooding, you know, you're not just going to go to like a bike path and flood the dog. So I get that it does work. But to desensitize dogs to what is triggering them, triggering the stimuli exactly. You need to have it there. Whereas with CCBT, you don't we're literally practicing resetting the brain, in all sorts of different situations. And so that dog gets used to doing that, that brain going in that direction, and, and thinking and so it's doing a little bit of what the inhibitory neurons do that haven't developed. But we're doing it through cognitive reaching that cognitive side of the brain, and that's when you get teenagers that just do things without thinking they know, they know i's wrong to steal dad's car, but they just do it. That's when you get, you know, it's like, Oh, it'll be fun, if I want to do it anyway. And do I care that I don't get my allowance this week. You know, dogs do the same thing. And you hear pet parents say that. You hear them say, Oh, my, my dog was good on one walk and not the next. And we went by this one fenced yard, but and it went well, but not the other and that and they're kind of trying to figure their dog out. But it's chaotic. That's all because of the brain development happening in that adolescent stage. Well, Billie, are you the only practitioner doing this? Because in the dog world, it's kind of unheard of this approach or methodology of thinking? Who Else Does This? Well, that's interesting because I think the mindset is definitely there, you hear a lot of trainers saying, you know, we need to, to recognize their emotions, we need to provide them with options and decisions. And we need to, you know, their mindset is that way, we need to use a more holistic approach. You hear this all the time, they need CCBT to do that. So I'm not saying they can't have that mindset. But the method, if they're sticking with conditioning methods, they're not intended to do that. So they would need canine CBT to do that. So I think the mindset is definitely going that way. What's happening is because the method isn't backing up that mindset, you're getting a lot of the industry leaders, just saying, Well, you know, you need patience, you need to cope. And that's because they're trying to get through that adolescent stage into adulthood, where those inhibitory neurons, and the connectivity between the hippocampus and the amygdala starts to work again, if they can have the patience to get through that and get to that stage, then a lot of the methods that they're using, will now hop into effectiveness and become effective. But if we can get CCBT, more known and just mainstream in that adolescent stage, it's going to save a lot of dogs, it's also going to save a lot of people from going to the dark side, right? So they go and they they're what they're doing isn't working, they're not sure what to do. So a lot of my clients who come to me they're using, you know, unsavory tools and maybe aversive methods, but they don't know what else to do. And within a couple of days, they're seeing progress with what what we do, I don't tell them, they can't use those. I provide them with skills that allow them to say, hey, I don't need those anymore. Well, Billie, we're gonna get into that. And I'm excited to do a deeper dive here on how you work with your clients. But before that, we are going to take a quick commercial break. So hold on tight, everybody. We'll be right back. Thanks to our friends at Walkee Paws for being our monthly sponsor.   Walkee Paws are the world’s first patented all-in-one dog boot leggings designed to be the “better bootie” and provide you and your dog worry-free walks. 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Walkee Paws are available in different sizes, colors and patterns…functional and fashionable.  And they also have indoor sock leggings, ideal for our senior dogs that need a little extra traction to prevent slipping on indoor floors.   It took my dog Winston just a few tries with his Walkee Paws, but got used to them and now enjoys romping in the snow all winter with clean and dry paws.     Order your dog some Walkee Paws today by going to https://walkeepaws.com/ and use the discount code WOL20 to receive 20% off of your order.   While you’re there, be sure to check out all of the stylish and functional Walkee Paws products.  Your dog will thank you! Welcome back, everybody. We are having a great chat with Billie Groom on canine cognitive behavioral therapy. And it's just so fascinating. And Billie, we all know that our dogs are smart. But I think this gives them the opportunity to “actually think”, you know, they're not just going through the motions. Oh yeah, I've done this before she wants me to sit. And I'm gonna get a treat, you know. So when we left off, you gave us a taster you of how you work with your clients. Can you tell us like one of your clients right now presents a dog with X behavior? How are you using CBT to address that behavior? How do you apply this with clients? Well, CBT has its own principles. And one of those is flexibility, adaptability, creativity. So there is a difference between teaching CBT as a formula. So my clients aren't learning the formula. They're just I'm adhering to the formula when I work with them. So the first session is always Zoom. I have a lot of clients that are virtual 100%, virtual all over the world. So we do Zoom and videos. And what we're doing in that first session is establishing those platforms skills, and those develop and change as we work through the program. And it requires applications. So they will apply those skills, which are different for them and their dog, depending on many factors, one being their lifestyle. So if a dog is in a shelter, versus in a foster home versus in a home that has a busy lifestyle versus retired people, we can adapt these platforms skills. Of course, it also depends on the behavior that we're addressing the age of the dog, the personality of the dog. But to learn the formula for trainers wanted to learn the formula on how they would do that. That's what I've laid out and what I've set out, so I actually adhere to that formula. When I'm working with my clients, I'm not teaching it to them. Got it, right. So they will then go and apply these exercises and based on the dog's change in behavior, and that could be interesting, smaller changes that my clients get back to me. They may not have anything to do with the behaviors that they called me about. But they can see their dog thinking and processing, making different decisions and changing behavior in other areas. And it's such a beautiful thing. They get back to me and I I totally think because it's hard to envision when it's just explained. And then when it's applied. And this is another principle of CBT. It requires application, which sounds silly because all methods require application. But literally the changes that occur because we're resetting that dog's brain and that's practice. It's like breaking a habit. Now, it's just not you might know it's wrong to smoke. But you literally have to have your brain practice all the time, not going for that cigarette. That's how CBT works. So it's repetition, not desensitization. But that repetition happens everywhere. And once that starts to happen, we go with it. We work with it in the direction that the dog is going and this is the formula that's created So I, you know, obviously I didn't invent CBT. But just like how Pavlov created a formula that adheres to conditioning methods for dogs. This is one for CBT. So getting back to your question on, am I the only one who knows it? And does it? Yes, because trainers are really ingrained into conditioning methods. And they automatically think, if you're not doing positive reinforcement training, you're doing something negative or wrong, or something that isn't scientifically proven. And that's not true. It is scientifically proven, and it is effective. It's just mainstream dog training doesn't currently teach it. So if it were part of mainstream, then one, it would be preventing a lot of people from going to the dark side, which would be great, because they just don't have to there's nothing negative with CBT, there's no negative reinforcements, there's no anything negative about it. The other is that it would greatly decrease the number of dogs in shelters going into shelters. So I have about 150 to 200 clients per year, through this entire, and this is where I'm seeing a an incredible decrease in surrenders. Because majority of my clients, 98% of my clients have had more than one positive reinforcement trainer, certified trainer, and they're good at what they do. They are they've taken lots of courses, and they're very educated. It's just simply the method. And they were told to either euthanize or surrender, and then they don't. So a lot of this problem that's happening now, with well, it's happening now as we're speaking, but when this podcast comes out, I'm assuming it still will be a problem with just the shelters and the rescue organizations are flooded, they're really seeing a lot and it's hard to home a lot of these dogs. So it would help a lot with that. You have some tips on when we do adopt a dog from a local rescue? What would you suggest we do with them? On how to get used to this whole new life and world? Versus conditioning methods? How would we use CBT? How to use CBT when bringing home a rescue? That's a good point. So one thing Yes, I do have a lot of clients who have had their dog from puppyhood, and have had great success with positive reinforcement training during puppyhood. And then they hit adolescence. And it's challenging. So they're not all started out with an unconventional beginning. But they just have to be in that adolescent stage for my method to be effective. But back to your question, yes, if they bring in a dog, often these dogs have been exposed to positive reinforcement training. So if they continue to use that the dog perceives them as not really understanding how they think and learn and perceive them. Oh, you're still doing that method, we need the dog to perceive the person as understanding them, understanding what's important to them, and understanding how to communicate with them. So in the first four days, some of these decompression suggestions are are challenging, because they, yes, we need the dog to be healthy. And yes, we need the dog to sleep depending on where they came from, and what their you know, if they came from a foster home, you know, as opposed to a 24 hour flight, there's a big difference there. But what we can do once they've slept, which very short time period, as soon as they get in a dog, we can just use basic commands on what's important to them. So if their brain starts thinking I want inside, I want outside, I want the leash on I want out the door, in the door, in the car out of the car during play time, incorporate maybe a reset and a release or a recall into those activities. Find out if the dog knows those commands, there's a good chance they do. If they just regress back to holding up a treat to getting a dog to sit. Yeah, the dog might do that. They’re not really reaching the cognitive side of the brain. So really does depend on the dog and what the dog knows. But it's important to find out what that dog knows, work with them communicate with them, there's a there's a good chance they know basic commands. And that can become a form of your language of your communication doesn't have to be taught in the same way that puppies so we want to teach it when that cognitive side is clicking in. The dog is already thinking about what they want to do, what they know what they like, and incorporate into that. So again, it's a little bit difficult on this podcast to give specific advice because it depends on the dog and it depends on what's important to the dog. But the main idea is that instead of getting set into our heads to tick the boxes, we're going to teach sit we're going to create train. We're going to do all these and tick the boxes. Yes, the dog is food motivated, yes, the dog is crate trained. Yes, it's more important to recognize what that dog is telling us and to use those opportunities to create that language and those platform exercises. And you've said it to me before, what CBT actually is, is more of a proactive approach versus a reactive, which is all the other training methodologies is how we're approaching it. Exactly. And you hear trainers say that a lot. We want proactive prevention, great conditioning methods, run on reactive reinforcements. That's how they're designed, it doesn't make them wrong. It just makes it, you know, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. When you're trying to stick under that conditioning umbrella. Continue to use reinforcements. So that's when you'll hear, right, but I'm proactively getting the dog to sit using a reinforcement. Yes, you are. But it falls short is not the intention. It's just not what it's intended to do. I would love to teach CCBT on a larger scale teach it. I am speaking at the well by the time this comes out. I will have already spoken at the American Behavioral Society. Oh, good. Yeah. Conference, they have a conference in I'm trying to think I guess this is coming out late this year. So yes, sorry, I was trying to think it's just speak knowing that it's coming out later, I will have already spoken at this conference. And it's a lot of academia, a lot of universities that teach animal behavior. So the animal behavior conference, hopefully, that is a place that I would love to teach it because it is people that are teaching trainers and people that are going to become trainers, and they are interested in learning the formula as a whole, as opposed to teaching it individually to people, but to teach the formula as a whole. And then that's when it can make way more sense. Because to try and do it on a platform like this. Yes. Where you know, as opposed to starting at the beginning. And working your whole way through through the entirety, is really what needs to be done. I mean, that's why conditioning, when trainers go to learn conditioning methods, it's six or eight month programs, right? You're learning an entire methodology, like an entire formula. It's not something that you can just, you know, jump in the middle of and understand. But the point is exactly what you're saying it takes a completely different approach. And it's intended to do that. And that's why it's so effective with dogs in the adolescent stage. And that's why I was just featured in Psychology Today magazine as well, that was Marc Bekoff Ph.D. Congratulations Billie, that is amazing. Because it takes a psychology approach, even though that's not a canine magazine. It's based on psychology. And that's so important. Well, Billie as we are wrapping up, I'm sorry to cut you off. I know that there's so much more to learn on this. But as we're wrapping up, now we know what CBT is. What is cognitive dysfunction? When we hear that a dog has cognitive dysfunction. What does that mean? What is cognitive dysfunction? Well, it depends sometimes that's in the senior years, where their cognitive abilities decrease. So cognitive abilities, a lot are memory, just being able to associate being able to process being able to remember so humans in their older years lose their cognitive functions. And you want to keep those cognitive functions going. That's why we do crosswords. So we can stimulate cognitive skills. And we'll do that in the brains and veterinarians are very good with providing behavioral veterinarians are very good with providing advice on how to keep your senior dog cognitive skills going. And then there's also medication for that as well. In the adolescent stage, it's different. So their cognitive skills are clicking in in the sense that, for example, something like with a puppy, when you want to put a toy away, you can kind of throw a treat down a hallway and they'll go and run and get the treat. And by the time they come back, they kind of forget Oh, where did that toy, right? I forgot and the toy’s in the cupboard. But an adolescent dog either won't go got that toy because or the treat because they know the toys going in the cupboard. Or when they come back, it's like, no, I know you had that toy. And I'm pretty sure you put it in that cupboard because I heard the cupboard open and close. And my cognitive skills correlate that cupboard to opening and closing with that sound. So these cognitive skills are clicking in and they're starting to make decisions and choices based on having those cognitive skills click in and that's why we need to harness them. When we work with them. We can't just pretend they're not there. Same with children turning three to four. Right they start to think things differently and process and they say do I have to share? What happens if I don't Share the larger meaning of sharing. It's not just the action of taking crayons to somebody else and sharing them. It's the larger meaning of this is a good thing to do. And people are happy when I do it. But what if I don't do it? Do I want to share all my crayons? These are cognitive skills that are clicking in? And so that's why this example. Yeah. And so it's you see this happening in their brain. And that's, that's the difference. So there's two different answers to that dependency in your and I'm sure behavioral veterinarians that, again, that's I'm not a neuroscientist. I'm not a behavioral veterinarian, but that I'd love to work with them a lot more. I'd love to combine all our knowledge and skills and create a course, for trainers to learn with all that knowledge, because I keep learning more from these neuroscientists and these behavioral veterinarians on why my method is effective. But I have not made that collaboration and connection with them to work together to provide yet this course yet. Yeah, maybe by the time this has come out, right. Exactly happened. Right. Maybe that will of. Yeah. Well, Billie, this is just fascinating. And I thank you for being the pioneer in this area. So Billy has a lot more to share. She has her own podcast, she has written a book. So Billie, I'm sure we've piqued some interest here. So where can everybody find out more information about you and your company UPWARD Dogology? Contact Info Thank you. Yes. And thank you for this opportunity for sharing it. Krista. I really appreciate this. Website is https://www.upwarddogology.com/ . And my podcast is Dog Training Disrupted by UPWARD Dogology. And it's available on 11 platforms, and my book is on Amazon, you can just look upmy name. SOCIAL MEDIA https://www.instagram.com/upwarddogology/ https://www.facebook.com/upwarddogology/ Billie Groom | LinkedIn https://twitter.com/UDogology Wonderful. Well, all of this information will be in the show notes, of course, so people have easy access. Anything you want to leave us with today, Billie? Final Thoughts Just don't give up. It's not your fault. If what you're doing isn't working. Or if you're feeling like, you know, you're being told you don't have enough patience, or you're being told you're not. And you know, you need to cope and have patience. There are other solutions. And please express to those that you look to to the leaders in the industry, that you're hoping that they can help to provide more options that help dogs and help people who are helping dogs. I love that and in my little pea brain to clarify all that. Don't give up on yourself and don't give up on your dog. Yes, there. There are solutions were there for you. Thank you, Billie, I appreciate you being with us today. Thanks so much, Krista. And thanks, everyone, for listening. And I'm always, always here for questions and feedback and comments. Thank you so much. I want to again thank the team at Walkee Paws for sponsoring today’s episode and for making products that are both functional and stylish. Keep your dog’s paws healthy, clean and dry by ordering from https://walkeepaws.com/today. and don’t forget to use the promo code WOL20 for 20% off! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hi there, this is Krista with Episode #165 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Just wanted to remind you guys that you might want to check out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend. And many would make great holiday gifts for your dog loving friends and family. And these are products that I've tried on my dog Winston, and that I know, like, and trust. And these products will also help your dog to thrive. So just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ and check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? It's a fact that dogs can not only smell our stress, but they also take on our stress. I read about a recent study in Science Daily that showed that dogs can detect with an accuracy of 93.75% changes in human breath and sweat. So in this study, the dogs could tell the difference between breath and sweat samples from people before and after a stress inducing task like fast paced arithmetic. And our odor is different when we're stressed. And of course our dogs know that firsthand. So I think the lesson here for our dogs and ourselves is let's all intend to have less stress in our lives. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Beth Miller is recognized as the #1 dog-friendly expert in the US. She is the Founder and CEO of Wagtown – a non-profit focused on helping communities become more authentically and responsibly dog friendly. Beth is also the creator of the innovative SMART Dog Park platform. Known as "the on-ramp to the dog park industry," SMART Dog Park is the only comprehensive resource dedicated to setting dog park excellence standards, providing elevated health & safety guidance, conducting top-notch research, accelerating collaboration and connections to resources/expertise, and much more. Hello dog lovers, do you want to advocate for your dog's health and wellness? Well, you're in the right place. And today I am joined by Beth Miller, who is going to share with us the effect of dog friendliness on canine health and wellness. Beth, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. You have such great energy on your show. I can't wait. Oh, well, you're amazing. And I can't wait for you to share with us. What we're going to talk about today. So why don't you first introduce yourself and tell us why are you so passionate about how community affects the health and well being of our pups? Hmm, great question. Well, you said my name is Beth Miller. And actually my background, in addition to being an animal lover my whole life and working in obedience and CGC training and all of those things, my background was owning an ad agency. And so I had this wonderful opportunity to work on not just selling products with people, but also working on community shift projects, and catalyzing changes in how we feel about things and how that translates into our behavior. And therefore the vibrancy of the areas we live in economically from a wellness perspective. And of course, all of that trickles down into the little furry guys, right and all of our companion animals and animals in general. So when I when I was working in conservation, I decided to jump out and I wrote the program for a nonprofit called Wagtown. And the idea behind that is that we help communities go from we wish we were dog friendly to we are dog friendly, but doing it in an authentic way, very much, much more genuine, and also much more responsibly. So that's kind of our forte there. So I quit my job on September 20 of 2016. And spent about two and a half years, interviewing more than 600 people all over the US to try to figure out what seems to be this new, overused term, which is “dog friendly”. You really, really need to be there before you realize what they mean by dog friendly, and what your expectations are. And there are a lot of mismatches. So that's the mission of ours is to create those communities where the prioritization of the dog is evident. It's regular, it's prioritized, and it trickles down into the quality of our communities. Well, I just love what you're doing. And I guess I never really thought about the benefits of dogs in our communities because I just, I guess take it for granted. But it makes sense that people with dogs who do activities with them, it creates connections with other people. I know just walking my dog Winston, you know, it gets me out of the house, I get to meet other people. It's just, we're approachable when we're with our dogs. And instead of, especially in this day and age being so isolated, it's refreshing to have a neighborhood where people interact with their dogs. So I guess the first question, are dog friendly communities healthier? Are Dog Friendly Communities Healthier? I would say 1,000%. Yes. And one of the real buzz words right now, which I think sort of clarifies what the point here is, is social, emotional health. And dogs to me are the ultimate social lubricant. They bring people together, they take away our defenses that we have our walls that we have up around each other, because it gives us something common to bond about. And as a result of that, you have seen people with better attitudes, better life expectancies, their numbers are better in terms of from their cardiological health, everything, from physical wellness, to emotional wellness, to spiritual wellness, to community wellness. And if you can imagine the impact of that not everyone loves dogs. Not everyone should have a dog, right. But if we had a community where we know, on average, 68% of those people have at least one dog in those homes, that’s 68% of the population that is getting up and active more often, that they're more engaged with something they have purpose in their life of caring for something else, is a conduit to meeting other people, it's a way to support the local economy that then in turn, is more appreciative of the dog focus in that community. So you see how it trickles down, even though you think of health as being this big, behemoth. You know, insurance companies all that. This is sort of flipping it upside down and saying that the tail wags the dog, right, so when we have these wagging tails around us, and they get us up and active, they get us walking, they get us thinking they get us, connecting with people, and especially to your point, when we've been so isolated and been in so many silos. Now we're going on this journey of reentering life as it is now. But now we have a companion, because one out of three people got a dog. So that's one out of three people that are more capable, in my opinion, of really reentering into this new reality in a much more healthy way, because they have a dog in their life. And I think it's just a very powerful thing that we need to recognize and sort of promote that that would grow and become more of an accepted thing. So that we say if health is important to our community, then dogs are important to our community. I agree. Well, when do you think it happened that the majority of dog owners, at least here in the US thought of dogs as actually being a family member? How long do you think that's been the thought? How Long Have Dogs Been Considered Family Members? Well, I think it's one of those things that went up on a curve. But I do think that there was a sharp uptick. And I think what we've seen happen is like, when I was growing up, we owned a dog. And I can remember, Popcorn was her name, she would be tied to the deck post, you know, and, you know, she was a dog, and we treated her like, we would treat a dog in the 60s and 70s, which was very different than it is now you wouldn't see a dog in a stroller with it’s ear pierced and a dress on. And when I was growing up, right, but now, it's like, I can't believe you don't have an outfit for your dog. I can't believe you don't have enrichment activities for them. And I think what we've seen is that we've gone from I own a dog, to my dog is family, which by the way, is now 95% of people and a lot of those people are now switching to My dog is my child. And for some people, it's My dog is my soulmate. And when you start to say let's give the example that your dog is your child, look at what we do with children in terms of surrounding them, immersing them in enrichment activities, not just being happy and going through the motions, enriching them so that they can have a full experience and be exposed to new things and understand the world in better ways. Now we're seeing people demand that for their companion animals, in particular dogs in this case. And I think that's a wonderful evolution, because of the fact that we're now starting to recognize the similarities in the needs of a dog with our own and how we can sort of mix those two things together to make it a much stronger fabric for all of us to get where we need to be. Absolutely. And I think it's funny, I don't know when this happened, but it just seems in the last few years, like when I go to a model home, and they have these extravagant laundry rooms with room for a dog and a washbasin for the dog and hooks and cubbies for dogs things. I think that's amazing. Well, I do too. Let’s see two years ago, we were looking at moving from Dayton, Ohio, you know, maybe some sunshine, maybe some mountains, some lakes, something like that. And so we Googled dog friendly city in America. And there were 28.7 million hits or something like that. And so my initial reaction was, Wow, this is everywhere. But then when you look at it, it's apartment complexes trying to get you to rent from them. And it's the restaurant that's having a thing for a night. And so it's really hard to find what it truly means. You know, Have you have you run into that? Yeah. When I think of the US, I don't think we're as dog friendly, as in Europe, which they are so lucky, you can go to a elegant restaurant and see a standard poodle under the table. I love that. And I wish that we weren't so hung up on policies, and the dogs are dirty. And… Why Does Europe Seem to Be More Dog Friendly Than the US? Yes, it is a big misconception. We worked with Laurel Denise and Bill Cooley in the state of Ohio, in 2018. It was the first time that it was legal to have a dog on any patio for bars and restaurants, regardless of whether you want to have a pups on patios. And so that meant that some businesses that we we worked with some people who were complaining that they were going to lose up to 20% bump on the days that they had dog patio days. And then, of course, the animal welfare organizations that do fundraising on those patios, they had a significant hit in their ability to cover their capital and operational costs. So we worked with them. And we looked and looked and looked for research that showed that there was a danger as a result of having the dogs on the patio. And the only thing that I could find that had even a decision was a report that was done by the State of California public health. And they said that when they looked at that, they could find no evidence to suggest that it would be a problem, no evidence. And this was a massive study. So I think there's this perception of that. And I agree with you, when I've been overseas, it's a completely different vibe. And what is interesting, when I did all these interviews, it was so different in New York City, than it was in Key West than it was in Nashville than it was in Chattanooga than it was in Portland. So when people say what is dog friendly, it really, really, really does depend on where you live, the attitudes that you have the infrastructure that you have. Some people live in what I call a dog friendliness desert, and talk about a thing that can really affect the health and wellness of the animals. If you live in an area where you don't have access to emergent care for your dog, where there is no infrastructure to support them being out and active, if there is no way for them to be socialized. If you don't have options for different kinds of you know, different kinds of health care for that dog. If you don't have enriching activities, if you don't have open space where they are allowed, if you don't have training available, you know, if you don't have a good resource system to help people who can't afford to have to have those dogs, those are the things that make it possible to say, Okay, I've got the base covered for all of the physiological needs for my dog, and we belong. And now if I want to go up to you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and have my dog, self actualized and have the best life possible, it's nice to know that their basic care and their basic needs are taken care of, just because you live in a community that prioritizes the wellness of the animals that live there. You're so right. People just don't think about that. They do not. Thank you. So we have a lot more to cover, but we are going to take a quick sponsor break and we will be right back. Thanks to our friends at Walkee Paws for being our monthly sponsor.   Walkee Paws are the world’s first patented all-in-one dog boot leggings designed to be the “better bootie” and provide you and your dog worry-free walks. Unlike traditional dog boots that slip off mid-walk and are tight around your dog’s ankles, Walkee Paws connects over the back, so they’re easier to put on and comfy for your dog to wear. They feature water-resistant legging fabric and waterproof rubber soles to protect your pooch from all the ruff stuff outside like hot pavement or sand, broken glass, fox tails and burrs, snow, ice melt chemicals, pesticides, rough and rocky hikes, paw allergies and more.  And the best part? All four leggings connect together—so you’ll never lose a dog boot again! Walkee Paws are available in different sizes, colors and patterns…functional and fashionable.  And they also have indoor sock leggings, ideal for our senior dogs that need a little extra traction to prevent slipping on indoor floors.   It took my dog Winston just a few tries with his Walkee Paws, but got used to them and now enjoys romping in the snow all winter with clean and dry paws.     Order your dog some Walkee Paws today by going to https://walkeepaws.com/ and use the discount code WOL20 to receive 20% off of your order.   While you’re there, be sure to check out all of the stylish and functional Walkee Paws products.  Your dog will thank you! Welcome back everyone. We are speaking with Beth on dog friendly communities and how they affect our dog's health and wellness. So Beth, we already covered are dog friendly communities healthier? And yes, obviously they are. But are they safer? Are Dog Friendly Communities Safer? Actually, they are. And in some surprising ways even we're starting to see Ironically, one of the tendencies with dog parks is to put them apart from the city instead of being a part of the city. And what they see happening is that areas that were infested with crime and drug use, those activities are curtailed because those spaces are activated. Unfortunately, they're putting the dog parks where the drug deals were happening. But it kind of goes to show you I know Bar K in Kansas City with their they specifically chose the location there where they knew they could invigorate that area. And so you know, you have more people walking around and more people on the streets. And then I worked with a woman in Cleveland Heights, she developed a program between the dog people and the police people, right, put them together, the police trained these dog walkers who literally walk every square inch of that community, right, they you know what's supposed to be there, and what is not supposed to be there. You know what's healthy for your dog and what's not healthy for your dog and for you. So they train you this is something you should call 911 for. This is something you call this other number for, this is something that you take a picture for us, and we'll just take care of it later. And then they talk to the police officers. And there's a group specializing this in Texas, how to approach the dogs in a situation that's tense, or, you know, some kind of criminal situation. You know, they've got uniforms on a lot of times sunglasses, I hat, keys, things that make noises stuff that's attached to their belt. And that's very intimidating. Plus, they're approaching their person. So how do you start having those conversations about what is normal and abnormal dog behavior in terms of having a signal of being a problem? Is there a way that you can approach that in a different way. And then, of course, the community is self policing it is the streets one by one by one. So when you start to see that, and you start to see crime going down. And if we finally start putting dog parks in areas that have been traditionally red lined and excluded from that amenity, even though in many cases in the various communities that need them the most. We're not going to see that until we start to see some equity and more excellence. And at that point, you need to say, we're going to say that companion animals and their happiness, wellness, their security is a priority for our community. Wow! What a great program. Okay, what about dog friendly communities helping local economies? Do Dog Friendly Communities Help the Economy? Well, that can be pretty substantial. was interesting to me that when I did my travels, when you go to a community that's more dog friendly, then obviously, there are more supply stores and grain stores and training places and grooming places. And it's almost like that joke about if you throw a stone, you can hit a Starbucks anywhere in Seattle, it was like that in some of these communities where you would go down a city block and find seven or eight individual very diverse opportunities for people to engage in commerce about their dogs. And they've recognized that there's a need there that there's a demand for that elevated enrichment experience. And so there's a lot of room because there's so much space in the pet industry for, I guess, unique experiences, products and services that are available, that there's a lot of room for growth there. So we're starting to see organizations like PackHire, that's an app that sort of like LinkedIn, but just for the animal industry. Well, that's a perfect example of people gravitating toward. They want to know what the whole scope is of how they can contribute to that. So when you start to use that in terms of what that means for your community, and you start to say that hey 30% of people who now travel with their pets alongside them. We have a dog park here, we have great health care here, we have places where you can go run your dog, we have dock diving here, all of those things. And those are all things that drive hotel sales. Those are things that drive business to local restaurants and bars, that their dog friendly, right? They're getting that business. And then you start to see people saying, oh, my gosh, people are making a killing, because people are spending all this money on their dogs. And so then you start to see people pivoting and creating new, and then, you know, great innovations in the pet space, particularly coming out of COVID. Wow. And obviously, dog friendly workplaces are huge that companies are taking notice that people want that to be able to bring their dog to work, which is cool. Dog Friendly Workplaces People wanting to take their dog to work is I'm sure it's an all time high. And I think one of the great things about that is the recognition that we're all having conversations about separation anxiety for the dogs that we have adopted during COVID. But there's not as much recognition of the fact that people are having separation anxiety, they've lived the last couple of years, alongside something that provides them with emotional support, sometimes physical support all kinds of, I guess, accompanyment on this journey that we've had. And now you're going to pull that away and expect the same amount of productivity, when we know from before COVID, that people are willing to give up a week vacation as a benefit of employment, if they can bring their dog with them. We know that the toward the pandemic, that the numbers for productivity, for showing up for work for staying someplace for being loyal to them to be a good spokesperson for brands, all of those things were true. And now we have a much more intense, emotional relationship with animals that are going to be I don't know, knocking at the door, I guess, of the bars and restaurants and the business places. And I think it's going to revolutionize the way that we think how we want our communities to be represented, if that makes sense. So if you don't have welcoming amenities, and infrastructure and policies, and business practices, then I think you're going to be not as competitive. Good point. Well, Beth, I know that you have tons of information, and people can actually go to your site to learn more about each aspect of how community culture gives us and our dogs, a more enriching and healthy environment. But because this show, of course, focuses on canine health and wellness, if we can just cover a few of those in the time that we have remaining. How do these communities help with longer life expectancy? Life Expectancy Well, it's interesting that you bring that up, we're actually working with a group in Las Cruces. They're working with senior single women who are looking for ways to stay active, stay engaged, and also have purpose. And there is a little discrimination against seniors in terms of getting a dog or adopting a dog fostering a dog because there's concern of the dog outliving the person who's taking care of them. And so they lose some of that companionship, and that that's been shown to increase longevity and quality of life. And so we're sort of taking away this crutch that we give that helps not only enrich our lives, but it actually extends them. So if you think about the fact that this animal is going to be helping you long term over the let's say you have a dog, eight years on average, that means that eight years of that there are opportunities to get up and active to go for walks to go hiking, or even just getting up off the sofa and working with them to play for a little while. That's still activity. And I'm not saying that your activity needs to be a marathon every weekend to extend your life expectancy. What I'm saying is that those little mini races of experiences with your dog, those are the things that I think accumulate in us and give us a better outlook and they give us more purpose, and they give us more reason to keep going. That's all true. Well, how does community culture improve nutrition? Improve Dog Nutrition? Are you speaking about nutrition for people or nutrition for dogs? For dogs. Okay, well, that's a very good point. One of the things that we're starting to see and I'm sure you see it much more than I do is conversation about what's the best way to feed your dog. And there's the whole you know, kibble, right, the word kibble can can start a whole fight. So I think what we need to realize is that all of us that have you know, the equivalency of a human kid, you feed your kid the way that you think is best for their upbringing, and I think we're doing the same thing with our dogs. But when you go to a community where they have a higher value placed on the fresh produce, for example, there are areas of the community that I've visited around the country where you can't find fast food, everything is healthy. And so when you're surrounded by healthy options, and less healthy things don't really have room to grow in that environment, because the people celebrate that healthy behavior. So then you start to see dogs that are living longer, you start to see dogs that have fewer health issues. And that trickles down into you know, the wonderful effect of our veterinarians having a better relationship, for their vocation, and for the animals that they're caring for. So it's what I always say, when you plop a poodle into a town, there's a ripple effect. And most definitely, the nutrition, the care, the well being the safety, the economic vitality, the welcoming infrastructure. I don't see how that cannot be a recipe for success for the dogs and for everyone. Yep, absolutely. What about bite or aggression dampening? How can a community help in that aspect? Dog Bites and Aggression A great way to approach bite issues and aggressive dog issues is, first of all, to accept the fact that it is a part of the community. I did see a program in San Francisco, where they have police cases come up are flagged and they went to a special team. And they would have mediation sessions. Both parties come they tell their story. They have resources for them at the hearing. And, you know, discuss with them how to control the dog make a judgement as to the fitness of the dog to be in there. But also helping people understand that not every dog is controllable by every person. You know, I once worked with a training group where there was a 10 year old boy working with a three year old Labrador that had never had any training. That's not going to end well. Right. And so there's, there's sometimes I think, a mismatch in those things. When we take a look at bites, if you have dogs that haven't been in an environment where they understand how to meet other people, or how to meet other dogs, and people understand how to meet other dogs and other people. Everyone assumes that if you see a cute dog that it definitely wants a hug from you and a selfie, but maybe not in that order. But would you want someone to just randomly walk up to you and accost you basically and take pictures of it while they're doing it? No, no. And so we don't we don't see that. When I was in Little Italy, in San Diego, I was amazed and disappointed in myself that I didn't anticipate. I mean, I knew that the dogs would be better around the people, because they were in that environment had been steeped in that from birth. But I really wasn't anticipating how much better the people were at approaching dogs. And I think that combination of more respect more exposure, and then more opportunities for the dogs to understand appropriate behavior and for the people to better, better understand, you know how a dog thinks, what's appropriate to do and not to do around the dog. And then that trickles down into your body language. All of those things need to be a part of the conversation in the community. There are things like safety school, for kids to understand traffic, there needs to be more replication of what we're seeing at shelters and rescues and humane societies across the country, which is teaching kids about how to be safe around dogs and how to become a better person for an animal when they grow older. You are so right. On your site, I saw a reference to a study by the NIH. Do you want to tell us about that and what their findings were? NIH Study I'm glad you brought that up. That study I think is very important for people to pay attention to because when you start to take a look at that finding, it talks about the physical activity through dog walking, and we've seen time and time again, that the access to that can curtail a person's ability to get around and it affects the walkability of the city, the ability for people to have access to things that they need to in the city. And when you start to see things like no dogs allowed, essentially what that means for you as a dog Toter that means you are not allowed, right. So it's constrained your ability to live in an environment where parks understand that there can be some negative impacts for dogs and in natural spaces. And there can be some bad experiences from dogs on patios. There can be bad experiences from dogs in schools that can be you know, I always say there's a dog, there's a squirrel for every dog. Even a perfect dog. There's going to be something right that would it could be something silly, but we need to understand that the more we allow the population to enjoy those spaces. Those people will better understand how to read a dog, how to understand how they can give their dogs access to off leash play so that the dogs can learn how to be a dog appropriately, and not taking it to the dog park for the first time, without any kind of introduction or training on how to behave there and expect that it's not going to be a little overwhelming for that dog. And in some cases, it can really affect the dog for life. So we need to stop thinking about dog friendliness as a turnkey solution. And really embrace what NIH is saying, which is, you know, contributions to building things and creating zones of allowance and welcoming, so that it can really impact all of us long term. That makes total sense. So Beth, you've traveled near and far you've studied all these communities. If you had to pick one place in the United States, whether it's a town or a city, what would you say is already an ideal community for dogs? Where is the Most Dog Friendly Community? Oh, wow. And there are people of course, you are going to put me on the spot like that. Yeah, cuz I want to know, where what are they doing? Where is this? And who can take note of how this community is in existence for dog lovers and their dogs? Yeah, well, it's a tricky question. What I have found to be the case for me personally, is that, although I've been to cities where I say, Wow, they really got it figured out here. You always come across something that's surprising to you. So when I was in Lake George, New York, there's an unbelievable dog park at Lake George RV park. And Dave King has built this amazing, amazing thing that's just breathtaking. But it has some built environment has like a chalet experience. Very, very nice. And then there's another dog park in Marymoor, Washington, and or Redmond Washington called Marymoor Dog Park. You have to Google this thing. It is unbelievable. Now I'm a nature lover. So this is 42 acres linear along a slow moving stream. So you're out there, they have put ins like we would have for kayaking, but they're for the dogs to gently get down to the water level. Five of them along this stretch. A lot of it is not fenced. There are chuck its and treats and toddlers and strollers and there's a Leonberger playing next to a Chihuahua. And just everything you think would not go right for, say a dog park, we're having all these dogs together works there. And I think that's where I would want to live is I love what they've created in New York. But I'd like to have it all right. So just like we want to have varieties for wellness options for our animals, I think we need to find places that say, Oh, here's something that's working, let's share it with people and say this is what's possible when you prioritize it. And when you integrate wellness and play and health and the impact of dogs on our lives, and put that into the actual structure of our community. So I've seen a lot of things out West. Honestly, I don't know that I would pick a whole lot of places in the middle of the country. Some of the areas in the South are not great. And they have some historical histories with equity and relationships with dogs that are very complicated. But you do see a lot of East Coast and West Coast in terms of access. There's a lot of surprise when I go to those areas. When I tell people like for instance about no dogs on patios in some areas. They look at me like I have three heads. No, I just I just had dinner at a tiny little bistro in Carmel, where there was a Great Dane under the table. And I didn't even know he was there until I left. And he was massive. And the dogs don't walk in like, Whoa, check this out. I’m going to go nuts in here. This is great. They don't they're like we're here at Starbucks again. Mom's getting get her chai tea latte, and then we're gonna go to another patio. Just another day in a dog friendly community. Well, that I can't believe we're out of time. This always happens. This is just fascinating. And you've got so much more information to share. And you've launched the SMART Dog Park, and you have an offer for our listeners. So do you want to share that? SMART Dog Park I do. I'm glad you brought it up because we were talking about, you know, the pluses and minuses of things. And I am very much in the same camp of probably a majority of the people listening here that dog parks have a problem. They have no regulation, they have no supervision. There are no inspections, no certifications, no training, no centralized resource to find things you need the subject matter expertise that you can find at the drop of a hat, all of the things that are essential to having a quality dog park experience. So we can get away from saying, oh my vet said you know not to take the dogs there or oh I have a puppy or Oh my dog is small. I could never my dog, you know, it needs to be better than that. These are opportunities for us to come together as a community with and without our dogs, to celebrate our community and being outdoors and active, and having that magical experience which it can be. But if we want to have that happen, then we need to stop ignoring the problem and say I don't go to those places, and develop something that teaches you to plan and to build, to analyze, and to improve every time that you're creating an off leash experience. So, in working with a few dog park projects around, I developed a system called SMART Dog Park. And that integrates in that process that you always address as a team with a lot of people in a constellation of people that are stakeholders in that project. And you're constantly looking through the lens of is it smart? are we considering manners? are we considering awareness? What about responsibility on all parts? And what about training, if we incorporated those ways of those things, into dog park structure, and into programing and into fundraising, and into development, capital projects, all things that really center on it being a part of the community. And that's what we're hoping to strive to do. So now we're right now, filling spots in our founding members launch. So we're going to have our beta class where people can be steeped in that environment, learn all kinds of information. Even if you're talking about just the land. What was it used for before? Was there anything harmful in that soil? Is there any overspray from nearby farms or residents that use those sprays? Are there any view shed issues? Is there going to be a turf problem? Is there a watershed nearby that you could contaminate? Is there a way to access lighting? Is there enough security in all of these questions, and that's just the piece of dirt that you're going to put it on. So I wanted to put something together that would help people go comprehensively from idea and wish with a dog by your side, all the way through ribbon cutting and then beyond. So that it is a positive experience, that people see it as a part as a positive part of their dog's journey. And so I'm hoping that people can reach out, or they can reach out to me either going to https://www.wagtown.org/. And I've got all kinds of information about their the nonprofit and SMART Dog Park. I also have the downloadable on there that people can take a look at how they could start to develop their team to create a dog park experience in their community. So I would love to do that. And if people have questions and would like to talk with me, no charge, I'm happy to do that. I'm just looking to change the world through wagging tails. And if I can help you get in touch with me. Awesome. Well, Beth has created this handbook. Again, this is what the offer is, it's a free download. And I'm going to put all of the links and the social media URLs and tags into the show notes so that they're accessible for everybody. And Beth, you've just opened all of our eyes, I think of how we can all make our communities even better for ourselves, our neighbors, and of course, the dogs. So I just want to thank you so much for being here and sharing such valuable information. Together, we can change the world and make it better for everybody. Here here, or should I say woof woof woof woof? Thanks so much. Thank you. Social Media URLs or Tags Instagram:: https://www.instagram/wagtown Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wagtown.org  Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethamiller Wagtown LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wagtown-inc. SMART Dog Park LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/smart-dog-park   website URL Wagtown.org and SMARTDogPark.com I want to again thank the team at Walkee Paws for sponsoring today’s episode and for making products that are both functional and stylish. Keep your dog’s paws healthy, clean and dry by ordering from https://walkeepaws.com/today. and don’t forget to use the promo code WOL20 for 20% off! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hello everyone this is Krista with Episode #164 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. A new study called Dogs are Sensitive to Small Variations of the Earth's Magnetic Field was published in the journal Frontiers in Zoology. And it demonstrated that dogs can sense and respond to magnetic fields. And it's the first time that this has been shown specifically in dogs. Researchers found that under certain conditions, dogs choose to pee and poop with their bodies aligned along the north-south axis, and actually avoided orientation along the east-west axis. And they studied 70 dogs from 37 different breeds over a two year period. And the observations were all made, while the dogs were off leash and in open fields, so that they were not influenced by walls, fences, fire hydrants or any other objects. So finding out that dogs can in fact, sense the Earth's Magnetic Field, just like a compass, makes us realize their extraordinary navigational abilities. Why dogs are choosing to orient themselves in this way is the big question. And hopefully future research will give us more information. Aren't dogs amazing? Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Lisa Baronoff grew up in South Africa and moved to New York City in 1996, where she worked for Revlon and Mattel before settling down and having her 2 children. She is dog crazy and came up with the idea for Walkee Paws in 2016 when he had problems finding boots for her dog Toffee. Her invention Walkee Paws solved the 3 main pain points people have with regular dog boots. Hello dog lovers and welcome to another Wag Out Loud informative episode. And joining me today is Lisa Baronoff and she is going to share with us how and why to keep our dog's paws healthy. So Lisa, thanks so much for being with us. Thanks, Krista. I'm very excited to be on your Show. This is so cool. Well, let's “paws” for a minute and have you introduce yourself and tell us why are you so passionate about paw health? Okay, wow. I'm certainly passionate about dogs. I am obsessed. I have had many, many dogs in my lifetime, probably about 18. All different breeds and sizes. And I sort of fell into the business of dog paws so to speak. Back in 2015 with my cocker spaniel. I live in Manhattan. And as you know, it snows in the winter and there's all that, you know, the snow and the snow melt chemicals of salt that goes on the sidewalks. And my dog Toffee got really sick one year and was vomiting, he had diarrhea. I took him to the vet and the vet explained to me that he had ingested the salt off his paws had actually come home and licked his paws and ingested the, you know, the chemicals which are are toxic, and that had given him diarrhea and caused him to vomit. And the vet said to me, it's made simple, you need to put boots on Toffee and I have never ever thought of putting boots on my dog. So I went ahead and ordered all these different boots and thought that they all had the same you know, three problems it was really hard to get them on because they are four individual boots, they needed to be tight around his ankles and he hated that because it felt uncomfortable, sort of blocked his blood flow. And then invariably I get out into the snow with Toffee and one or more of them would fall off and we’d lose the boot, it's really frustrating. And, and I have a background in marketing. I worked for many years for Revlon and Sara Lee Hosiery and Mattel Toys. So I had this idea to do a dog bootlegging sort of attaching a boot to a doggy legging that would suspend over a dog's back and stay on and I tried those on Toffee and they really seem to work well because they were not tight around his ankles and they stayed on really well and I never lost a bootie. And even if one slips off, I can slip it back in again. So when I launched that I really was launching for dogs for winter because I thought that was a real issue for paws is you know the one term that I mean since then a lot of people told me as well in winter that you know, the dog paws get very sensitive as well if they're exposed to a lot of cold and to the salt. They can get like a chemical reaction, they can get hotspots you know there's also a big issue with snowballs collecting in the dog’s fur and paws, especially for like the fluffier dogs, like my golden doodle. With Stirfry when I take him out in the snow and he comes home and he's got like snowballs all over his legs. And that caught in between his, you know, his little toes and paws and I need to literally put him in a warm bath to to get rid of the snowballs. So it's not only a problem for the paws, it's also a problem going into the fur. So, you know, when I launched Walkee Paws, which is dog bootlegging, I thought it would really be for the winter where people would need it the most. But to my surprise, we sell the products throughout the year. And I've since learned that there are many other paw issues that dogs have that I wasn't that aware of. And I can tell you about a couple of them if you'd like and there's, there's a ton. Anatomy of Paws Well, let's see if we can back up a little bit first and talk about the anatomy of paws. I really didn't know what they were made of until I actually looked it up. But paws are made of you know, muscles, keratin, collagen, tissue, ligaments, tendons, bone. And, you know, a lot of people don't think about it. But paw pads are really sensitive if your dog doesn't have calloused pads. So there's a thick layer of pigmented skin that we can see, you know, the pads are usually pink or black. And they cover fatty tissue. And these pads are so helpful with your dog's balance and traction, stability. And they also act as shock absorbers which this was just fascinating to me when I actually researched. So another thing about paws that we all know is that the paw contains the sweat glands for the dogs. And that pushes the perspiration to the outer layer of the skin, trying to cool them you know when they're hot on a hot day. So paws are really an important indicator of our dog's health. And you mentioned before like snowballs can collect not only on their legs, but in between their paws. And we really need to make sure that our dog's paws are healthy, you know, do they smell really bad? Are their nails long? Is the hair overgrown between the pads? These are all signs of Paw ailments really. So why don't we get into what comes to mind for you, when you think of some of the paw issues and I'm not talking environmental. But when we look at a paw, what should be a red flag for us? What to Look Out For with Paw Issues Well, definitely the first red flag would be if your dogs licking and biting at their paws a lot because that could mean either something is caught in their paws, it could be a foxtail, a little pebble, a rock, some you know salt or and I am so if they are bothered by their paws, definitely investigate that and look at the paw to see if there is something there that you can remove. We've had a lot of customers who've had foxtails or sand burs burrow into, into dog paws and cause you know, bad injuries and they’re kind of hard to see. And if you don’t know what those are, they're these plants that have little tiny barbs on them. And if a dog steps on that, the barb sort of penetrates their paw and could even go into the you know, onto their legs. So that would be the first thing and then also if they are licking a lot and it's not because there's something there or the paws are not red or irritated because sometimes it's you know, dogs get hotspots from all sorts of irritants or allergies. But it also could be environmental allergens because dogs have contact allergies from from stepping on things like pollen outside. And if they are allergic to the pollen it’s the contact on the paws and they bring that into the house, on their paws and they lick it. So definitely look to see what's going on. If there's anything you know that that looks suspicious to you. The other thing is to look for is for ticks. Ticks can also in the summertime, burrow in between, you know dogs paws, and definitely take your dog to the vet if there's anything that looks suspicious. And if they carry on licking their paws, they may have an allergy situation where you may need to actually put a doggie booty on or you know something to protect them from that allergen. So they don't actually come into contact, you know with it. And one thing I think of that we've talked about on the show before is glyphosate, which is the toxic pesticide that is sprayed not only on a lot of our crops, but, you know, how do you think that they keep those parks and golf courses looking so beautiful and green? Well, it's, you know, sprayed with glyphosate. So dogs are bringing that into the house, and it's on their paws, because they're walking in it. Protect Against Pesticides Yeah, that's the big issue, whatever they walking on, it's on their paws, and then they get home and they have a habit of licking their paws. So they then ingest things, whatever they were walking on. It's interesting, you mentioned the pesticides, and even just the regular, you know, lawn chemicals that are sprayed on to kill weeds and, you know, just pesticides, it's been proven that they'll stay on the surface for at least 48 hours. So they generally recommend that dogs and children are not left on the lawn after, you know, it's been sprayed for about three days. So that's another time to really be cognizant and protect your dog your dog's paws to make sure they don't come into contact with any chemicals. Because that's toxic as well. So there are a lot of environmental, you know, dangers that are lurking, that you don't really think about, you know, and I know often when my lawn is sprayed, they'll say just 24 hours don’t go on the lawn. And I was researching it recently. And it was they were saying it's at least 48 hours. So that's a little a little scary. Thanks for that tip. Well, Lisa, we're gonna talk about some environmental factors. So why don't we talk about the first one being paws and hot pavement? Environmental Factors Right. Well, that's an interesting one. Again, for me, it was an interesting learning because again, I launched Walkee Paws for dogs in the snow and found tons and tons of people calling us saying they were using them for hot pavement. And I did research and realized that if you if you put the back of your palm on hot asphalt or you know sand or whatever your dog’s walking on, if you can't keep it there for at least five seconds without you know having to take it away, then your dog should not be walking on that surface. Because that is going to burn their paws because dogs paws can get burned in a lot of asphalt gets really really hot in the burning hot summer. So the recommendation is to walk your dog from the cooler hours early morning, you know, late in the evening, or you know, as the sun's going down. Or alternatively again, you know, put on doggy boots or, you know, some sort of dog covering to protect their paws from you know from the pavement. And and it's not only that it's also you get sometimes melted tar you know on really hot days to get that melted tar. I know vets have told me that dogs come in with bubble gum stuck in their paws and broken glass in their paws. So there's, you know, crazy stuff out there. Especially I live in Manhattan. So walking the streets of New York, there's just, you know, and not even just to mention, just the gross, fecal matter and dried out urine that dogs are just stepping into on pavements and then bringing into your home afterwards as well. It's kind of crazy when you think about it, because as humans, we take our shoes off when we come home. And they've done a lot of studies on what humans you know, bring into the house on the bottom of their shoes. And it's kind of the same for dogs. So it's best to you know, another another point that came up with lots of our customers is they're like, you know, my dog's like my baby. He sleeps in the bed with me. And I love that he doesn't have street feet because he’ll wear the Walkee Paws, we’ll come home, take them off, leave the dirt outside and he'll jump in the bed with me and I know his paws are clean. So there's more and more people. I mean, I'm one of them. My dog’s on my sofa, the bed. He goes wherever I go. It is interesting. That's the whole idea of you know, dogs can't take their shoes off. They kind of come in and they whatever's on their paws is on their paws. That's a great point. Lisa, I think this is a great time to just take a pause for a minute and listen to our sponsor ad. We'll be right back. A big thank you to the team at Adored Beast for being our monthly sponsor. I am a HUGE fan of Adored Beast because they offer A one-of-a-kind line of high-quality, Human-grade, natural products that don’t just treat the symptoms of your dog’s ailments, but also the root causes. With an impressive line of natural, holistic treatments, these homeopathic products address core issues, support healing and aid in preventing reoccurrence. Addressing Gut Health, Allergies, Liver, Bladder and Nutrition, they offer a 100% No-Risk Money Back Guarantee. I especially love their Liver Tonic, Turkey Tail Mushroom Liquid Double Extract, their Leaky Gut Protocol, Fido’s Flora probiotic, and Phyto Synergy Super Antioxidant.  You really can’t go wrong with any of their quality products.    Support your pet’s health today by checking out  https://adoredbeast.com/ AND be sure to use the code WOL15 for 15% off on any of their high-quality natural products that will support and heal your adored beast.   With black Friday right around the corner, be sure to sign up for the Adored Beast newsletter at the bottom of their website for exclusive Black Friday deals, coming soon. Again, that url is  www.adoredbeast.com  We're back everyone. We're speaking with Lisa, about the importance of paw health. And we just talked about the summertime, how paw pads can actually burn and blister. So just a reminder, Lisa brought up that great check that you can do. So the back of your hand, put it down on whatever your dog is walking on on a hot day. And if you can't keep it there, for a minimum of five seconds, it's too hot for your dog to walk on as well. So thanks for that reminder, Lisa. All right, we're gonna change seasons. And because this episode is coming out in November, it's the perfect time to talk about the winter issues with paws. So if you can talk about that. You talked about your cocker spaniel and awful ice melt chemicals that are used in a lot of parts of the country. Yeah, so you know, it's, it's interesting, because dogs have such different personalities, and I hear from customers, some dogs hate the cold, hate the rain, won’t go out to do their business, if it's cold and wet, some of the other dogs love it and love playing and it's such a you know, all dogs are different. But um, for the dogs that really hate and don't really want to walk on cold wet surfaces. We have Walkee Paws, which have little grippies underneath the rubber. So they actually provide a traction, and you know, on hot pavement, those little grippies raise the paws off the pavement so they don't absorb the heat. And in cold as well. It's a little bit raised so they don't feel as cold. So I think it's just the big thing for me, overall, in the winter, especially living in New York is just the mess. You know, coming in with a dog that's got snow and snow melt all over them is, you know, really awful. Yes. And we have to remember I mean, I know there's products out there that are, “safe for your dog,” you know, that melt the ice. But yes, I've heard that those products can really dry out their paw pads, because they’re not natural. So we have to, we have to really be cognizant of where they're walking no matter what the season it is. And again, realizing as we mentioned before that generally speaking dogs are licking their paws. They're coming home, they're lying on the sofa and licking their paws. So whatever they were stepping in, they are ingesting. So, you know, you can also come home and wipe down your dog's paws with a with a wipe. The only issue with that is then you have wet paws. And it doesn't really get if you've got snow, you know, snow clumps. You almost need to bathe them. And my dog hates baths. It’s the worst. So yes, I'd say you know the cold as well they just don't like it they really hate being cold. So and a lot of customers tell us that when they wear Walkee Paws, they can run around in the snow for much longer so they get much more playtime. And then it also protects not only the paws that are on the ground, but also the because it's a legging that goes up the dog's leg and protects the fur as well from getting you know the snowballs in it so when you when you bring your dog home the both the legs and the paws are are clean, which is helpful. And there are certain breeds of dogs like chihuahuas, a lot of short haired dogs that get very cold in the winter. So they should, you know ideally also have a coat on as well. When it gets really really cold. Yep, that makes sense. Well, since we're talking about the paws and the paw pads, just a reminder because I groom my own dog and the fur between the pads should be trimmed and you know sometimes they do get mats between the pads, which is very uncomfortable for them. So if you groom your dog yourself or if you take them to a groomer you know, I call it Grinch feet, when they've got all this excess fur on their pads because the pads more exposed is going to give them the traction that they need on slippery surfaces. So I think that leads us to, we were going to talk about, you know, especially senior dogs getting up and down on some of these slippery floors, do you want to talk about that? Senior Dogs Need More Traction Sure. So that's, you know, it's kind of a topic that's very dear to my heart, because my same dog Toffee who actually passed away a year and a half ago, he was 17. Wow, that's amazing Lisa. what happened in the in the latter years of his life. And, you know, I invented Walkee Paws around him because of the snow and the issues he had there. I found that he couldn't get traction in the house on the tiles or the wooden floors. And I, you know, I have videos of him spinning in a circle with his front legs that just trying to get up. And it was absolutely awful to watch. I mean, there were, there were many mornings that we came down, and we'd find him just back in a puddle of his own urine because he couldn't get up to go to the bathroom, he just couldn't move. So I know a lot of people put down yoga mats in you know, in their apartment or do all sorts of things to accommodate dogs that you know that they can't get traction, but and they also use something like those little grippy socks. But a lot of the the issues with those is they sometimes don't stay on because again, they're relying on being tied around a dog's ankle. And as you can imagine, one will, you know, fall off at some point. So we launched the indoor grippy socks stay on grippy socks, which are four little socks, again attached to leggings that to spread over a dog’s back. And that really worked for, for Toffee, and for a number of other dogs that are having this issue because it gives them a little silicone sock on the soles of the feet. So it's very comfy for them because it's a stretchy sock and a stretchy you know, nylon, spandex four way stretch fabric. So it's really, really comfortable. Almost like wearing pajamas for them. But that gives them the, you know, the security that they can actually get a grip and get up and get down. And I know there are a ton of dogs, especially bigger dogs that can have really bad injuries by stripping and playing on floors, when they're older, they can have disc injuries, back injuries. You know, another issue is as dogs get older, you know, they might have arthritis, but even if they don't have arthritis, they could have lack of coordination, neurological issues. And all of that makes the you know, being able to get a grip a little bit more challenging for them. So what happened is when we, you know, initially, people were telling me they're using our Walkee Paws on, you know, on their dogs indoors, and exactly for the reason you mentioned that dogss sweat through their paws, etc. I didn't like the idea of having a rubber bootie on a dog all day long at home, it's fine to take them out for a walk and come home. So that's why we developed the same, you know, sort of the same design of Walkee Paws, but with the grippy socks so that people could leave their dogs in them, you know, all day long, and they have the security that they could get up and down. That's great. Are they more breathable? The indoor ones? Yes. It's like a cotton sock. And it's got a loose opening at the top. So you can get air ventilation coming in and out. Yeah, dogs don’t seem to mind them at all. It's interesting. I've never had a dog trying to get the socks off. They just seem to like them. Interesting. So yeah, that is that's a big problem. And especially as I said, the big dogs because if they slip and fall, that's very, you know, a big problem. Good point. Well, just while you were talking, I just thought of two other instances where booties like the Walkee Paws would be great. You know, I live in Colorado, a lot of people here go hiking with their dogs over you know, it's rough, rocky terrain, I would think protecting their feet on hikes like that. Or if your dog has a paw injury, like a blister or a cut. It would be nice to put this over a wrap while they're healing. Exactly 100% Because a lot of Dogs hate those cones that they have to wear. So if the injury is on the paw or on the bottom part of their legs, the Walkee Paws will totally cover that as socks. So you could have a wrap, have a sock over that and you know stop them from scratching and licking and that thing. So 100% And people are using them for that as well. Dogs love to lick their paws after an injury and anything you know that's itchy or irritating them, they go crazy. Well Lisa for any of us that have tried booties before. It's inevitable. You think of the booties are on and your dog is just frozen in place. They don't know what to do or when they start walking. They've got this weird prance. So how do you get dogs used to wearing the Walkee Paws? How to Get Your Dog Comfortable Wearing Booties It's actually so funny, you mentioned that that's actually a really amusing part of multiport. We actually call it going from the walkie waddle to the walkie wag. And interestingly enough, again, dogs have all different personalities, some you can put the Walkee Paws on and the'y’re fine, others will stand, they won't even move, they're completely it's almost like they have stage fright, and don’t know what to do with themselves. So Walkee Paws are more comfortable than traditional booties, because they're not as thick, and they're more stretchy. So dogs can feel the ground when they walk, which is important for their sense of security. But there still are dogs that don't want to walk or do a funny high step walk. So what we tell people to do is just get them on, you know, have a treat, ready, put the leash on and just start walking with them. And invariably, once a dog is in Walkee Paws for a couple of minutes, they completely forget that they have anything on. So it's just that first transition where people get nervous, they'll think, oh, it's hurting him or he doesn't like it. It's just an unusual sensation for dogs. And I tell a lot of our customers, you have to get their video cameras ready or their phones ready because it's very amusing. To film the first steps in Walkee Paws. And I think dogs are also inherently a little bit self conscious, you know, because I know even with my dog, when I put stuff on him, and I try and photograph a new product, new Walkee Paws and I want to get a picture of him. He won’t walk for me, I have to turn my back. Yeah, they’re kind of like humans. They can be shy and sensitive. And so the trick is just to have a treat, get them going. And they just forget about it after a little while. You know, it's it's a learning curve, when you first put any sort of apparel on your dog. It's a learning curve for the dog. And Walkee Paws is a bit of a learning curve for the human as well because it suspends over the back and you need to tighten the straps to get the tension so they stay on. So it's a little learning curve. And once you've got it all set, and the straps are done correctly, it's really super easy. Well, as we're wrapping up, Lisa, there's just two things I just wanted to mention about since we're on the topic of paws, I think this is just fascinating that you know, when dogs sometimes sometimes they go to the bathroom and they use their back feet to look like they're kicking back. That they're leaving behind the pheromones that are on their paws so that other dogs know they were there. So they kick the dirt up after going to the bathroom or the grass. So fascinating. So I was here. And then everybody, we probably have all smelled our dog's feet and they smell like Fritos, right? Well, that smell is from bacteria or yeast on your dog's feet. And it's usually between their toes, or paw pads, and it's completely normal. But if your dog's immune system isn't up to par, these bacteria or yeast could overgrow. So just watch that. Offer So Lisa, I can't believe that we are out of time already. But you are making an amazing offer to the listeners. And I want to thank you for that. Again, Lisa's brilliant products and company is Walkee Paws. And they come in all different colors and patterns. So your dog can remain very fashionable, as well as protected. So Lisa is offering a 20% discount on any regular priced product. Again, that's https://walkeepaws.com/. And your discount code is WOL20. And we are nearing the holidays when this comes out. So this would be a great gift for any dog lover that you guys know. And even for your own dogs. You guys have to try Walkee Paws. So Lisa, as we leave here today, do you have anything that you want to leave us with? No, I just want to thank you so much for being on your show. It's so much fun and I learned so much about dogs from you. Thank you. And just to do with this by the time this airs, we will have all of our new products online and one of them is our Easy On Deluxe. And it's going to be a booty that's shaped like a dog’s paw so it's more ergonomically shaped and it's also going to be lined for winter so will give it added warmth and protection and also protect the booties from a dog's nails so people can look out for the Easy on Deluxe. And then we also do have our accessory items that are super cute, like a coat that has attachable leggings and a cute little Pom Pom Hat. Leashes. So you know everyone they can check it out on WalkeePaws.com. And this could make a really cute and functional and fashionable Christmas gift for dogs. Awesome. Well everybody check out WalkeePaws.com. Again, don't forget about that amazing discount WOL20 for 20% off. And thank you Lisa for being with us today. Social Media URLs or Tags          Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/walkeepaws          Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WalkeePaws/          LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/walkeepaws/?viewAsMember=true Thank you so much. So much fun. Thanks again to our friends at Adored Beast for sponsoring this month’s episodes. Remember, they offer a 100% No-Risk Money Back Guarantee on all of their high-quality products. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting the needs of your adored beast by going to https://adoredbeast.com/ and using the code WOL15 for 15% off. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Well hello this is Krista with Episode #163 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. if you haven't already, you should check out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend. And these are products that I've tried on my dog Winston. And that I've researched know, like, and trust. Products that will also help your dog to thrive. Just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ And check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? True or False? Dogs have collarbones. That's actually false. In fact, dogs don't have any bones to connect their shoulder blades to their body, but instead they're attached with just muscles and ligaments. And I just learned this recently when I took my dog Winston in for some rehab for his arthritis, and the rehab person mentioned this to me when she was doing the cold laser on Winston's neck and his shoulder area. I just thought I would share this fun fact with you. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Carla Dusel, CPDT-KA is the Operations & Behavior Advisor for Central Bark, a company that provides Whole Dog Care through Enrichment Doggy Day Care, dog boarding services, grooming, retail market, and training. Carla has been working with dogs professionally for 12 years and is passionate about reward-based training methods and building the bond between owners and their canine companions. Carla shares her life with Karma and Gypsy, two darling senior bully breed mixes, Talim, a sporty young Whippet, and Queen and Ambrose, two spunky and snuggly Italian Greyhounds. Hey there dog lovers! You've tuned in to what will be a great chat with Carla Dusel. And we're going to talk about successful socialization. That's so important. So Carla, first of all, I want to thank you for being with us. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, this is gonna be great. Why don't you introduce yourself and share why are you so intrigued with canine behavior? Of course, yeah. So I am a professional dog trainer. I'm a certified professional dog trainer. And I am a operations and behavior advisor on the corporate team for Central Bark. So I've been working with dogs for about a decade, just a little over a decade. And I have just been, like most people in the industry just obsessed with dogs and animals for a very long time and through childhood. But I've always found behavior to be the most fascinating thing. And even when I was little, was interested in behavior, I was always asked if I wanted to be a veterinarian. And the answer to that was always no. I just wanted to know more about why dogs and animals do the things they do. So it always came down to behavior and the inner workings of the brain and how things function. So this is really where I ended up kind of going was really diving into behavior and understanding how things work. Cool. And we are learning more every day about how our dog's minds and body operate, aren't we? Yes, I mean, there is so much information that comes out every year. And I anticipate that will just continue to come out every single year, you know, we're learning more and more about all of the different species of animals that we share our lives with, including dogs. And at no point is that learning ever going to be finished. You know? And I think that's really important for even professionals to understand is that our learning, it never ends, right? We are learners through and through, even when we are trainers or professional teachers as well. Sure you're absolutely right. And they're so fascinating. So, let’s dive into this topic about socialization. So in your own words, what exactly is socialization when it comes to our dogs? What is Socialization? Yeah, so I think of it in a couple of different ways. So socialization in puppies, is really the practice of leveraging a natural curiosity that most puppies have from eight to 16 weeks of age, which is a critical window of development for puppies. And during this time, owners and care providers are encouraged to really thoughtfully set puppies up to build positive associations with novelty, in order to build self confidence and trust in the relationships that they have with their people and the people that are going to be providing care for them. In adult dogs socialization is just a little bit different. It's more of the rehearsal of already developed social skills in order to maintain their positive or neutral feeling towards people, dogs or other types of stimuli. So the way that socialization may look is a little bit different for every dog based on their individual needs, and the goals that their owners may have for them. We might have the goal of having our dogs share space safely, in kind of urban environments when we're going patio dining, things like that. But the next owner might have the goal of their dog, you know, doing therapy dog training, or just being a really confident family dog. So, socialization may look a little bit differently. And I think in puppies, and adult dogs, there are some unique distinctions there as well. Sure. And when you say socializing? Are we talking about socializing with other dogs and humans? Yeah, I mean, we're really talking about just everything that we might want for them to encounter in their adult lives. You know, so when we look at puppies, and we think about, you know, I have the hope of going, you know, camping with you some day, and paddle boarding or kayaking, things like that, we'd really want to kind of take that big experience that we have our hearts and dreams, you know, set on. And we would say, How can I help socialize you now to be successful in that future environment, right. So we might say, I take you out into the world, we go to wooded areas, I make sure that you're comfortable, and I try my best to help you feel comfortable, around, you know, unfamiliar people, unfamiliar dogs, all sorts of different sights and sounds of nature, right, all of the things that are harder for us to control, wind and trees and squirrels and all those little critters. And then also building physical confidence too. If we have the goal of doing paddle boarding or kayaking with our dogs, then we have to make sure that we're working hard to help them feel physically confident on kind of uneven surfaces or on wobbly surfaces, and that they feel comfortable swimming, they feel comfortable putting on life jackets, things like that. So socialization really is not just specifically human beings or dogs, but it is what might they have to hear or see or smell, what might they have to wear, or physically experience in their future as they become adult dogs or in the goals that we have for them, or sharing our lives with them? So really, with any new situation that we're putting our dog in, we want them to trust us enough to say, you know, this is okay, you're going to be okay. You know, first time that they're on a paddle board, that is a new experience. And I haven't been on one either, which I want to do. I want to SUP with my pup. Right, exactly. And it's super fun, I absolutely recommend giving it a shot. I've done it before. It's very fun. But it's fun when your dog feels comfortable and confident, right? Otherwise, it's just kind of stressful. So when you're looking at socialization, it really comes down to teaching our puppies that in the face of novelty, right in the face of things that are kind of strange or unexpected. During Halloween, it might be you know, the blow up pumpkin and the blow up big black cat that's on somebody's front lawn. Or for Christmas, it might be you know, the big blowup Santa Claus, you know, in the face of novelty things that you've never experienced before. You've had so many good experiences with so many totally random different things and so many different items. The vacuum, brooms, unfamiliar people, wheelchairs, you name it, right? Where those things have only led to you feeling relaxed and comfortable that in the face of those things, and while with their person, while with their owner, or their care provider, they can look at you and say, I feel really good because I know that you've never put me in a situation where I've been unsafe. And I know that in the face of novelty, things always end pretty well. Right? Even if I get a little nervous or a little startled. Ultimately, you take care of me. So we're helping them build that self confidence. Building those positive associations with novelty and then building again that trust in the relationship that they can rely on as they age. Yep, we have to set them up for success. So do you think socializing puppies is easier, because they haven't really developed any negative thoughts or feelings towards places, other dogs, people? Would they be easier to socialize than an adult dog? Difference with Socializing Puppies vs Adult Dogs Oof, that's a hard one. So I think that they come with their own kind of challenges. So puppies, they're never completely a blank slate. We are always looking at kind of a nature versus nurture aspect of things. But the reality is that there's always some amount of early learning history all the way through utero, and genetics and things like that, that come into play for how our puppies might feel about certain things, even before they come home, so even before they come home at eight weeks, or between that 8-16 week age window, they're not perfectly a blank slate. So they might have some feelings about certain things that we just aren't fully prepared for. And that's okay. That is part of the process of bringing home a puppy and learning about them and who they are and getting to know them. I definitely think that some owners and some trainers might enjoy the process of working with puppies more or working with adult dogs more. But I don't know that one is inherently easier than the other. They both kind of have their different challenges that they're going to present. For a puppy you might have, you really have to kind of be prepared to give them a lot of kind of emotional support, and really kind of give them a lot of reassurance and bend down and get on the ground with them and say like, oh, you're okay, you're like, everything is gonna be fine, here's some cookies, like you did a really good job. And in our puppies, we oftentimes see that that reassurance is so incredibly valuable when first building your relationship with them. And for some people, that can be really hard, right? Doing that in public spaces with your puppy can be kind of challenging, we get a little bit of that social anxiety. So that can be a little bit hard. And in our adult dogs, sometimes we are really looking at doing some more counter conditioning, versus socialization, depending on what their feelings are about things in the world, you know, if they already have a conditioned response of being, you know, afraid of buses, or motorcycles or things like that, at that point, we're not really looking at socialization, we're really looking at creating a new conditioned emotional response. And that is a behavior modification plan. So that is not at that point socialization. That’s saying, I know that you already feel uncomfortable with XY or Z. So now, I'm going to work with a professional trainer, and maybe even, you know, collaborate with my veterinarian to make sure that we're setting you up for success on all of these different fronts. And we're just doing kind of counter conditioning to say, can we take away some of the scariness of that thing and help you just feel more comfortable and relaxed in a way? That makes sense. So yeah, so I mean, there are different challenges based on our age, and the way that we feel about certain things. But I mean, I love I love all of it, you know, and I think that helping dogs feel comfortable with anything that they might feel kind of worried about is certainly something that we can have the goal of. That doesn't mean that we're going to get every dog to love, something that they're uncomfortable with, or to genuinely want to engage with something they're uncomfortable with. I'm afraid of spiders, right? And if you wanted to teach me to love spiders, that would be a really big challenge. You might be able to teach me to tolerate spiders, but the likelihood that I'm ever going to have a pet spider and name her Priscilla and carry her around and baby talk to her is very, very low. So you know, we just end up kind of looking at things with a slightly different lens depending on age, and what their emotional response might be to certain things already. That's awesome. Well, Carla, this is a great place that we are just going to pause for a moment for a sponsor break and we'll be right back. A big thank you to the team at Adored Beast for being our monthly sponsor. I am a HUGE fan of Adored Beast because they offer A one-of-a-kind line of high-quality, Human-grade, natural products that don’t just treat the symptoms of your dog’s ailments, but also the root causes. With an impressive line of natural, holistic treatments, these homeopathic products address core issues, support healing and aid in preventing reoccurrence. Addressing Gut Health, Allergies, Liver, Bladder and Nutrition, they offer a 100% No-Risk Money Back Guarantee. I especially love their Liver Tonic, Turkey Tail Mushroom Liquid Double Extract, their Leaky Gut Protocol, Fido’s Flora probiotic, and Phyto Synergy Super Antioxidant.  You really can’t go wrong with any of their quality products.    Support your pet’s health today by checking out  https://adoredbeast.com/ AND be sure to use the code WOL15 for 15% off on any of their high-quality natural products that will support and heal your adored beast.   With black Friday right around the corner, be sure to sign up for the Adored Beast newsletter at the bottom of their website for exclusive Black Friday deals, coming soon. Again, that url is  www.adoredbeast.com  And welcome back everyone, we are speaking with Carla Dusel. And we are talking about socialization. And, Carla, you've brought up some great points. I wanted to ask, you know, when we get a puppy, we are encouraged to you know, put our finger in their mouth and touch their feet and maybe put them on their back. So they do feel more comfortable because people are going to be touching them and handling them throughout their lives. Is doing that desensitization, I guess is what you would call it is that also part of socialization? Socialization or Desensitization? So yes and no. I'm always really cautious about just doing things to our puppies without really paying attention to what they're telling us about how they feel when we're looking at those types of experiences. Because we can unfortunately, set our puppies up to just feel more uncomfortable with certain types of handling, or with certain types of novelty, or stimuli. So when we're looking at the way that we socialize our puppies, it is absolutely possible for us to say, you know, we're going to play pass the puppy or we're going to put our finger in your mouth or hand in your bowl or things like that to just desensitize you. But the reality is, we might actually just be sensitizing them even more to whatever it is we're doing. So if they're uncomfortable, we might just be building even more discomfort, instead of helping them to feel more relaxed over time. So that's where it can get a little bit tricky. When we're looking at socializing our puppies or looking at, you know, desensitizing our puppies to physical handling or things like that. I really encourage owners and care providers to focus on building those positive associations using praise and toys and treats to add value to experiences versus just doing the thing and hoping that we tolerate it well. Because there is the risk that our puppies to say, you know, I was uncomfortable. And now I just feel even more uncomfortable. And this keeps happening over and over again. And my discomfort is just becoming more cemented. So there is that risk, right. And I think one of the biggest things that any puppy owner or new dog owner across the board can do is just learn more about body language and the intricacies of how dogs communicate. And by learning more about body language, you're really going to be able to see what your puppy is telling you during the socialization process, about how they feel about handling different novelty, different stimuli. And then you're going to be able to gauge Oh, is there a different path that we should be taking to help you feel more comfortable with this thing? So instead of, you know putting our hands in their food bowl or picking up their feet and touching their toes to try to desensitize them? What I would say instead is maybe we walk up to their food bowl and we add extra cookies to their food bowl. So that instead of just get used to me coming up to you and doing this, which is, let's be honest kind of strange, where if somebody came up to my food and we're just touching my plate, I, I'd be a little uncomfortable too, I'd be like those are my french fries. But instead, add more value to the food bowl, right, so come up to the food bowl, and add some extra yummy cookies, add an extra treat in there, so that your presence coming up to the food bowl is something where our puppies are going to anticipate even greater value with your presence, versus maybe some awkward interaction or discomfort. Or if we're looking at helping our puppy feel more comfortable with Paw handling for future nail trims, things like that, instead of just picking up their paws and touching them over and over again, which again, might just be creating a more sensitized puppy who says, No, I'm positive that I don't like this. Instead, we pick up a paw or we teach them to give us their paw. And they get cookies for it. They say, this actually just equals really good stuff. So it's not about you just learning to tolerate it. It's about you genuinely feeling good about this experience. All good points. Carla, what are some of the signs that an adult dog needs more socialization? So I mean, it really depends on kind of the adult dog, I think, when we're looking at the adult dog in our life. And even when I consider the adult dogs in my own life, it's really about what they enjoy doing, and kind of meeting them where they're at, versus necessarily saying they need more interaction with other dogs or with unfamiliar people. With your adult dog, they kind of are who they are, you know, and it's kind of like adult human beings too. I have never enjoyed going out and going to parties or going to clubs or anything like that. And for some people, that is a big part of their way of socializing, right. And for me, it's just not how I socialize. And that's totally okay, right. So somebody could absolutely have the goal of saying we're going to teach Carla to enjoy going to clubs and going dancing, but they kind of be paddling against the stream, right, they would be working against the way that I kind of operate and the way that I find things reinforcing. So what would work best is to say, I see that you kind of just enjoy different things. So I'm going to meet you where you are. And we're going to meet your needs in a slightly different way. So I think when we look at our adult dogs, it's really important to say, do I think you're really interested in meeting unfamiliar dogs? Or spending more time around people? Or is this something that I am hoping for in a dog? And I'm just projecting onto you, right? Is this my own human need, that I'm putting onto you? And then from there really saying, Okay, if this is more about me, then how can I change my perspective to support you better, and maybe that's going for more, you know, nature walks, and more sniffaries. And maybe that's signing up for a group class, where you're not actually engaging with other dogs, but we're sharing space, we're learning new things together. Maybe that's signing up for daycare, where there's gonna be a behavior assessment, and we can let you know professionals really look at that and say, you know, is this going to be the right environment for you versus going to a dog park, where every owner is really kind of determining what might be the right fit, which can be a little bit of a gamble. So I'd really look at your specific dog, right, think about your dog, what is it that they love to do? What have they told you that they love to do? And as an adult? Are they showing you that they really want to play with other dogs? Or is that just something that you're hoping for? And kind of distinguish the two things right? Is it our human need and interest? Or is it our dogs desire? And then go from there. Do they really like sniffing? Do they really like walking through the tall grass? Do they really like splashing in the water? What is it they enjoy? And then how can we meet their needs? Because, again, I'm not really going to enjoy going clubbing but maybe I would like book club in my own house. Right? So maybe for our dogs. It's a playdate with another dog from our family unit. Right? Maybe it's a friend or family member’s dog where it’s one on one playdate in our backyard, versus going to a big dog park, or we're having these other types of big socialization goals. So I think those are kind of things to think about when we're looking at our adult dogs. For socialization, it's kind of taking our own needs out of the equation and really looking at our dog and saying, What do you really want? Well, I love that you're pointing that out that we shouldn't force it, we need to meet them where they are. Because if we do force a certain situation on them, and they're already fearful, and or aggressive, that can just exasperate the problem, because, again, we're not taking their feelings and comfort level into the equation. Meet Your Dog Where They Are Yeah, exactly. And if they're, you know, if they're uncomfortable, then they're, they're going to express that in some way, you know, like that is that is going to come out. And oftentimes, the way that dogs express their discomfort is not a way that generally makes us feel very warm and fuzzy. That doesn’t make us feel great. And sometimes we have a lot of like, feelings of shame or guilt around that, which just isn't really necessary, you know, we can just look at our dog and say, Okay, this is just isn't who you are. And that's okay. And I'm just going to meet your needs in a different way. Right? So we don't need to feel bad, or guilty or ashamed. If our dog doesn't want to play with every single other dog. Or if they tell us that very clearly, they don't want to play with other dogs, then it's just communication for us to say, Okay, we're gonna meet your needs in a different way. And that's totally okay. That takes the pressure off of everybody. Right, exactly. Okay, the big question. Let's say my friend has a new dog, and they want to bring it over to introduce it to my dog, Winston. What is the best way to introduce two dogs? How to Introduce Two Unfamiliar Dogs So there are a couple of different things that you can do. I think my favorite way to introduce two dogs who are unfamiliar with each other is honestly by going for walks together first. And I think that going for walks in not necessarily like a neighborhood setting, but kind of in a big open space, a big empty soccer field, or park setting, kind of an open environment that's going to be a little more quiet. But having our dogs both on leash, kind of, you know, 20, 30, 40 feet away from each other, just seeing each other from a distance. And going for a little walk together, having it be very casual. And having there be as limited social pressure as possible, is really a nice way to just say we're all in the same place. But you don't necessarily have to jump right into engaging and interacting with each other. A lot of times, what we can unintentionally do is kind of let dogs loose together in a backyard or in a park. And then all of a sudden, we are getting a lot of information very quickly. And sometimes don't have the means to support them in the best way when we do that. Right? So if we go to a backyard, and we just let both dogs off leash, and let them go and see what happens. If one is overwhelmed, or one is a little more pushy, it can really kind of explode into this big production very, very quickly, where they're kind of cementing the way they feel about each other. In moments, right? In moments, their initial interaction is you overwhelmed me, and now I'm uncomfortable. And that's much harder to undo. Right? If we want to set them up for a really healthy long term relationship, if this is a relationship that we want to really grow and nurture and have the longterm, right? You have friends and family that are going to be in your life for years and years and years. You want your dog to be able to spend time together during family get togethers and picnics and things like that over years and years and years. I think it's really important to just take the time to do those slow introductions, so that we can just build comfort with sharing space first. Low pressure, not just running around chasing each other getting in each other's, you know, business and, and overwhelming each other. But can we just share space, can we just go for a walk in a big open park? And sniff the grass together, you know, then we can give each other say hi, give a little handshake, and then take a break, go sniff the grass again, go pee on trees go Do you know go look at the squirrels. And then you know have a little side conversation, before we have the off leash backyard experience, it's important to just gauge that they really feel comfortable. Just even being in the same environment before they are free to possibly play or possibly terrorize one another, you know, and so those are just kind of the things that I would keep in mind is, if this is a relationship, we really want to nurture to be healthy for years, then go slow, do the slow introduction, do the walk in the big open space where both dogs are on leash, we have treats for both dogs that are on each individual owner, so that we can give them cookies, we can encourage them to walk away from each other if we see tension building anything like that. But they have the opportunity to look at other things, they can look at the birds, the squirrels, they can sniff the ground, they can roll around in the grass. And it's not just about the pure excitement, and novelty of seeing another dog and then running off leash with them, where we're gonna get our adrenaline pumping and our heart racing. And anytime we have that kind of scenario, our inhibition drops down too. So we're gonna get more rough behavior, we're gonna get more rough play. So really go slow, set them up for success if we're looking for kind of a long lasting relationship. Fantastic advice. Well, that makes me feel better, because that's how I introduce two dogs. Good. Well, I can't believe it, Carla. But this was what happens, we never have enough time to continue. But hopefully we've whet your appetite to learn more about proper socialization with our dogs. So is there anything that you'd like to leave us with before we sign off today? How to Learn More No, I think the biggest thing, like I said earlier is just learning as much as you can about how dogs communicate. So pick up some books. Look, look online, there are some really awesome books by some really amazing authors that have illustrated guides for interpreting how dogs communicate with each other through their, sometimes very subtle visual cues. But I think that understanding how dogs communicate is going to be the number one thing in your journey for socialization, that's going to tell you everything you need to know about how your dog feels about the world, and everything they're seeing and experiencing. This has been so wonderful, Carla. Well, where can everybody find out more information about you and Central Bark? You can just go to CentralBarkUSA.com. And there is a ton of helpful information on the website. We also have a blog. And that is one of the things that I work on to kind of create some content for there. So there is more information on how to socialize your puppy, the do's and don'ts of socialization, things like that, that you can find on CentralBarkUSA.com and in our blog, but lots of q&a there about you know how to how to best support your dog and whether or not daycare or other social environments might be the right fit for your pup. Social Media URLs or Tags a.     Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centralbarkusa/ | @centralbarkusa b.     Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CentralBarkUSA | @centralbarkUSA Awesome. Well, as we said in the beginning, there's always more to learn. So I will put all of these links in the show notes so people can check it out. And Carla, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing this very important information. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was super fun. Thanks again to our friends at Adored Beast for sponsoring this month’s episodes. Remember, they offer a 100% No-Risk Money Back Guarantee on all of their high-quality products. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting the needs of your adored beast by going to https://adoredbeast.com/ and using the code WOL15 for 15% off. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Well hello everyone! This is Krista with Episode #162 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Now here's a fact for you. Water is one of the most underrated nutrients for dogs, and it makes up more than 70% of your dog's body by weight. So they need to maintain this water content by consuming plenty of fresh water every single day. And a good guideline for dogs is about an ounce of water for every pound of body weight. So for example, a 25 pound dog needs about 25 ounces of water, which is about three cups throughout the day. And it's recommended that water should be changed at least once daily. And be sure to keep your dog's water bowl clean as well. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Dr. Marlene Siegel is an international speaker and an innovator in integrative veterinary medicine. Her practice, Pasco Veterinary Medical Center in Lutz, FL offers the widest array of alternative therapies and detoxification services in the country. She developed her own raw pet food company and supplements EvoLoveRaw.com. Passionate about education, she has online programs for pet parents and veterinarians to teach integrative vet medicine. Visit www.transformingvetmedicine.com for more information.  She is launching S’Paws Family Wellness in 2022, detox centers for pets and their parents.  drmarlenesiegel.com for more information! Hello dog lovers and welcome to another educational opportunity to be better advocates for our dogs’ health and wellness. And chatting with me today is the Dr. Marlene Siegel. And she's going to enlighten us about structured water, that it's not H2O. Oh, Dr. Siegel, thank you so much for being here. I've been excited to talk about water. Well, I am super excited to share about water. Well, we are going to dive into it. But before we do that, I'm going to have you introduce yourself and tell us why you are so passionate about the water that we end our dogs drink. Well, first of all, I am an integrative veterinarian, I've been practicing veterinary medicine for coming up to 40 years, wow, I can't believe I can say that. And 20 plus years have been in the integrative world. And so not just water, I'm very passionate about life and energy and sustainable living and the planet and our pets and us. So I'm just passionate about all of it. And water makes up such a key amount of that importance on how our body actually runs and all came from an incident where my youngest daughter and one of our show horses were involved in an accident. And when I went to get help for my horse to actually heal her because she saved my daughter's life. And so I had a big debt to her. And when I was told there was nothing more that could be done for this horse. I just found that to be an unacceptable answer. And it took me on this amazing deep dive on learning the biology and how everything works. And so when you come down to the very basics, it's all about energy. And energy is what we are literally made of. But when you look at the atom, which is the smallest molecule of the body that you know, makes up ourselves, the atom is 99.999% empty space. But it's not really empty space, it's really energy. And it's the water that interacts with that energy field. That is the process for how everything happens in our body. Pretty amazing to think of it that way. Water becomes a it's like a battery. It's the receiver and the transmitter of information and water literally has memory. So when we talk about healthy structured water, we're talking about water that has the innate intelligence, to understand what it needs to do and how it needs to do it, and how it can portray information. You're blowing my mind. Okay, well, let's unpack this. Dr. Siegel. We all know that water is a key nutrient that both humans and dogs we need it to survive. You know, most of our body is made up of water. So let's talk about the current state of water. You know, especially the water that we drink, we hear about RO systems and pH and alkaline and filters and RO, all that good stuff. So what is the state of the water right now? Is it healthy? The Current State of Water So the water that we're drinking from our tap is contaminated with over 85,000 synthetic chemicals. And this came about because around the 1940s, end of World War II, we started creating a lot of synthetic materials. And where does that go? Well, it's getting washed down our sinks, we’re peeing it out, we’re pooping it out. All the chemicals and toxins and drugs that a lot of people are taking, somebody's taking my share because I'm not taking any. And so we have all of this, the things that we spray on crops and in regular agriculture, but it's also all the oil that is spilled on the highways, in the concrete and the asphalt and all the fertilizers that people are using… all of that is going into the aquifer, which is where our water comes from. Now, in the olden days, water used to come down, you know, it rained and snowed. And so water would melt off the mountains, and it would create this vortex of energy, because we know that the Earth has a metal core to it. So it has a polarization. And as water moves in, in nature in the natural state, it creates this natural helix. And depending on whether you're north of the equator, or south of the equator, which way that helix is gonna turn. But that movement through nature, and that filtration through rocks and sediment not only cleans the water, but it structures it. So structured water is different than the water that is in our bodies, it actually has a different molecular structure. So we talk about water as being H2O. But the structured water that we're really wanting to talk about today is called either fourth phase water. Dr. Pollack is a scientist who studied the structured water and he called it EZ water, the word EZ for short, because it's an exclusion zone. When this fourth phase of water expands, it pushes all of these other solutes and toxins out of it’s space into this bulk water. So imagine, if you had a layer that you could expand, and that as it expanded, it filtered all of the junk out and pushed it elsewhere around the outside of that. And that's what EZ water does. It has a different molecular structure, it's called H3O2. It's about 10% denser than regular water, and it carries more oxygen. So more dissolved oxygen can be in this, which is what we need to deliver to ourselves. So what's interesting about this fourth phase water or EZ water is that as it expands, it allows normal metabolic functions, everything from being able to not only clean the water in our body, but to be able to do protein folding and cell repair, and being able to perform all kinds of different metabolic functions. All of that comes from the EZ water that is coating everything in our body. It coats all the organelles inside of ourselves. It coats the cell itself, it coats the DNA. So this is extremely important information. And certainly something we didn't learn in school when we were in school, we learned that there were three phases of water, you know, you had your solid, your liquid and your gas. But this fourth phase of water is a gel. And when we're exposed to radiant energy, like the sun is a big infrared ball that expands our EZ zone, and allows our body to convert more of the water into this EZ water, which is a little denser, carries more oxygen, cleans itself, and allows the body to perform its metabolic energy. Some of the things that cause this phase to collapse and get smaller and shrink up is EMF, toxins, glyphosate. So what a surprise that we're living in a world where so many people spend most of their day indoors, and their pets are spending that day indoors with them. And what are we surrounded in our homes, Wi Fi smart meters, all of these things that now we're not even exposed to a radiant energy light, and we're exposed to all of that EMF. So that EZ zone is shrinking and we are a very dehydrated population. Well, I'm glad you said that because, of course, many dogs you and I don't agree with it, but they're being fed a dry processed diet with hardly any moisture content. So I'd have to think that most of our dogs are in a constant state of dehydration. Do you agree? Are Most Dogs Dehydrated? Oh, absolutely. And here's what's even more important. So let's say, for people, they tell you to drink eight glasses of water, you're drinking either tap water or plastic bottled water, which is even worse, because our municipalities don't filter our tap water for more than 11 chemicals. And then the plastic bottle water, in addition to the 85,000, that are in tap water, there's another 24,500 that had been identified irregardless of how much money you pay for that plastic bottled water. So you're talking about a massive amount of toxins, and that water is not structured through the processing of that water, it's become what I call dead water. So when you're drinking that, your body can't use that your body has to structure it in order to form the particulate size that allows it to go through these little pores called aquaporins, that are in the cell membrane. So the ultimate goal is that water has to get intracellular. So when you're drinking it, if it's not structured, it doesn't have the right size to get in through this aquaporin, which it was designed to go through. So even though you're you think you're drinking a lot of water, or you're feeding all this water to your pet, it's not getting intracellular. And cats, oh, my goodness, talk about that. So cats came from the desert. So they were already designed to be low water users, they were already designed to kind of be in a state of semi dehydration. And I want to paint this picture for people to think about if I had a glass of water, and I had a swimming pool, and I put the same amount of toxin in the glass of water, as I put into the swimming pool, which would be more toxic, the glass of water or the swimming pool? You would think well, so water, the glass of water because it's more concentrated. So you take an individual like a cat or a dog, and they're already in a semi dehydrated state. You add all the chemicals and toxins that are in processed foods, in the environment, the things that are touching their skin that they're absorbing, and the EMF, all of that. And you're concentrating all those toxins. So now when they're filtered through the liver and then out through the kidneys. Why is it a surprise that above cancer, kidney disease kills more cats than cancer now it's a running start here. We’re real close. Cats are catching up quickly. But kidney disease is the number one killer of cats. And it's because all these toxins are concentrated as they pass through the kidneys, so they create far more damage. So not only do we need to stop poisoning the body, which is my very first premise in my healing process, you got to stop doing the things that are causing the problem. But you also have to give them healthy structured water so that that water can actually go intracellular. Does that make sense? It does thank you for making it so easy to understand because I know that this can be very sciency and above a lot of our heads. Well we are going to take this opportunity to take a quick sponsor break and when we come back Dr. Siegel is going to tell us more about structured water and the benefits to our dog's health so we'll be right back. A big thanks to this month’s sponsor Mayu Water…Inspired by nature, Backed by science.  “Now that I’ve learrned about the benefits of drinking structured water, our entire family, including our dog Winston, drink water from our Mayu Swirl. The Swirl is a hand-blown beautiful glass carafe that with it’s gorgeous porcelain base, uses an innovative vortex technolog,y creating structured, delicious water, filled with oxygen and a balanced pH level. Structured water plays an essential role in the functioning of cells in the body, strengthens immunity, and provides more energy and increased hydration. So important for both humans & dogs!   The entire line of Mayu glass products are dishwasher safe and the Swirl will improve the quality and taste of any water poured into it.  So why not stay well hydrated and treat yourself and your dog to the best water possible for a healthy long life?    Learn more by going mayuwater.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL15 for $15 off And we're back with Dr. Marlene Siegel. And we're talking about the importance of structured water. So Dr. Siegel, I read that it's called structured because it's structured in nature. And does that mean it's just like spring water? What is Structured Water? Well, it depends on where you get your spring water. But how nature structures water is in the early morning, when there's dew on the plants. As the sun comes up and starts to shine light on those plants, that causes singlet oxygen, it's restructuring the water that's on that plant, so that the plant can uptake that water and use that hydration, then when we eat that plant, or the animals eat that plant, you're literally eating structured water, which becomes bio available to us. So for humans, it's so important to be eating a lot of fruits and vegetables, they have to be organic, because if it’s full of pesticides and glyphosate. And that's not giving your body good hydration, because you're just adding so many toxins. But when we're taking natural, grown without pesticides, vegetables, and fruits and greens that are rich in this structured water, we're able to take and structure the water in our body through eating these things. And sometimes if people can't afford a machine that makes it, you can just take some naturally grown fresh organic herbs that had been out in sunlight so that the water in that material is structured. And you can put that into the drinking water, just literally like you would take some mint or some rosemary and put that into the water, let it sit until you can taste the flavor of that. And then the water of the plant is going to synergistically harmonize with and structure the water of your glass. So obviously, the volume has an impact, you know, but if you're talking about an animal's water bowl, and just adding some fresh herbs and or some fresh fruits to it, so that it structures, the water is a great start. That's fascinating. And I've heard if you were to put a bowl of regular tap water, and a bowl of structured structured water side by side in front of any dog, that they would instinctively want to drink the structured water. I haven't done that experiment, but I would think so there's definitely a taste difference. When I travel, I have a little unit. It's like a little cone, and I pour the water through the top of the cone, it doesn't filter the water, but it structures it. So it passes it through these balls that creates this helical spin. And whenever I'm lecturing, I'll have you know the hotels always bring these jars of water and nasty stuff. And so I'll take that water and I'll pour it through my little structure machine. And then I have people taste the before and the after. And their eyes get so wide and they go I cannot believe it is that big of a taste difference. Now again, it's not taking the toxins out, but it is structuring the water so that your body can start doing the filtration, we just don't want to keep making our body do all the work. You know, if you can get rid of a lot of those toxins before it goes into your body, then your body has a lot less work. Because the cellular hydration is responsible for all of the biophysics, all of the energy that happens in our body happens through the structured water. It's also coding our DNA. So that if we want to have proper DNA genomic expression, we have to have this fourth phase of water. And then on a daily basis, our proteins are going through something called protein folding. It's how our DNA replicates. And it needs this fourth phase water to be able to do that properly. Otherwise, you get mistakes in the protein synthesis in the DNA synthesis. So this structured water interface is critical for every enzyme function that occurs in the body. Think about that it's immense, right? Yeah, that's how important water is. Oh my gosh. Well, let's talk about more of the benefits you already mentioned. Obviously it helps our cells recover quickly and it detoxifies the body. I understand it also manages stress and metabolism. It boosts your energy Of course, it helps your immune system. And let's talk about the taste because I've I've heard that if people try to describe it let it's wetter than normal water or silkier, how do you think the difference in taste is? It is the most delicious taste you can imagine, you know, I think it's because we don't remember what structured water tastes like, you know, for most people, they probably haven't gone out to a stream that's at the top of the mountain, where the water is actually not contaminated yet. And so they don't know what that fresh, clean taste is. So I, you know, I think a lot of the times, we're so used to the the home filtrations that have chlorine, and that we have all the distilled waters, and they it's just, it's a totally different taste. But what we want to do is, is just figure out how can we get the best kind of water to drink, and it's not going to come from our tap. And we certainly don't want to give that to our pets and I deal with more cancer patients, I think, than most because people come from all over the country for us to do cancer therapies on their pets. And the top two questions are what are you feeding and what do you give them them as water? And a majority of people, they either say from the tap, or they think it's coming from the filter in the refrigerator. So they think that’s better. Way not. Or they're using bottled water and it's plastic bottled water? So you know, step number one, we really have to understand how do we get good water. And you already covered all the benefits of structured water. Let me give you some of the things to look for if you're looking for a system to make structured water. Because, you know, honestly, that's about the best way that you're going to do is to be able to filter and get structured water. So one, you want to have some form of proof from the company some things in there. Testing that shows that it is highly filtered, it should be taking out heavy metals, insecticides, pesticides, fluoride, glyphosate, all of that needs to be filtered out. Number two, it needs to structure the water, I like to have minerals in the water. That just allows conductivity to occur. And I also love molecular hydrogen. Because we are in such a state of oxidative stress our pets and ourselves that we could not eat enough food, we could not take enough antioxidant supplements to be able to meet the amount of free radical damage that occurs in our body on a daily basis. So molecular hydrogen is the first element on the periodic chart. And it donates its electron to reducing these free radicals. So by drinking molecular hydrogen structured filtered water, you could have some of the most highest form of putting your body in a state of healing that you can imagine. Now there's two different machines, or two different processes I should say that make this molecular hydrogen structured water. One is done through electrolysis that requires electricity. And the other is called a wet technology that uses magnesium. When magnesium reacts with water, it produces molecular hydrogen, the beauty of that machine it doesn't require electricity. So we're I live in Florida, we go through thunderstorm season, we get hurricanes and all of that. So we're out of power. Not a lot, but enough that I don't want to be without water. So the machine I use is a magnesium wet reaction. And it just doesn't require electricity to work. But you want to look for companies where they have proven scientific evidence they have certifications and have great customer service. And of course the company itself should have good integrity. That make sense? Yeah. Can you give us some brands? Because we like things to be super easy. So yeah, what would you recommend? I don't want to promote any particular brand, but if somebody wants to contact me, I'm happy to give them a couple of options to research and that way because I don't want to be salesy. I just want to give people opportunities to learn, but definitely would like to, maybe we could put a link in so people can contact me, because it depends on where they live and what kind of there are places in the United States where the water is way worse than others. And so the company that I prefer, again, they're filtration has 14 different filters, and they base their filtration based on your zip code. So they address the quality of the water that's been found in your specific area. So it's, it's very specific to how they create the product, which I love. And are you talking about a whole house system, which is very expensive? Or are you talking about a little unit that you would just use for drinking water? Well, again, there's a couple of different companies. So I have one system that I use for our cooking and drinking water. And it has one side that makes molecular hydrogen and it has another side that makes just structured water. So both of them are are structured, and both of them are filtered. But you don't want to waste your reaction to make magnesium if you're just going to cook with a water or make tea because you're going to boil off the hydrogen anyway. And then there are other systems, which do whole house structuring. So, and those are not that expensive, you'd be surprised. And then there's systems for the shower, so you can shower in structured water. That's why it's really hard to just kind of say a name, because it depends on what somebody's looking for, what is their budget? And what are they trying to accomplish? Right. Well, for people that want to try structured water, I've heard that when your dog is first introduced to it, that they are going to drink way more than normal, I assume that's because they want to catch up and get hydrated. And that if they do get switched, that they might have stronger smelling stools for a while, which makes sense, because the toxins in their bodies are being flushed out. Is that all right? I have never experienced that. So I, I've been doing water as part of our detox program for many years. And I've never had anybody express that or complain about that or even share that. So I don't know that I've not experienced that. And of course, I've been doing it for myself as well. And I've not experienced anything like that. Okay, and spraying hotspots and bug bites and burns that it helps heal quicker? Yeah, it's not well structured water is not in and of itself, like the miracle cure our bodies understand structured water, were made of structured water. So it helps us to hydrate and synchronize and your body isn't under as much stress trying to take unstructured water and structuring it so that it can actually use it for metabolic function. Right. So. So by immersing ourselves in as clean of water as possible, our body makes structured water at the mitochondria, which is our powerhouses, they make deuterium depleted water. That's their job. But when they're so overwhelmed with so many other toxins, that they are becoming dysfunctional, then it's this cascade of things that are happening, that just, it's like, piling on top of each other problem after problem. And then Murphy's Law, everything goes wrong, right, right. So we just become more and more degenerative, the more we create this unhealthy environment. So in simple terms, we need to get outside we need to breathe fresh air, we need to exercise, we need to eat species appropriate clean organic food, we need to drink water that’s structured and filtered and ideally has molecular hydrogen, we need to put ourselves in a parasympathetic state and get our animals in a parasympathetic state, which is the state of relaxation, where we can detoxify and regenerate. So those are principles in life, we need to have happy thoughts, we need to wake up in the morning and think about what we're grateful for and during the day think of something you're grateful for and then go to bed at night, being grateful and putting your body in that state of gratitude. Because every aspect that I just said, is part of the key to health and longevity and vibrance and vitality. Absolutely. And it's all about positive energy. When it comes down to it . Absolutely. We can structure water with our thoughts too. By the way, you know, Dr. Emoto did his science studies and if you do any reading on water, structured water, the energy of water, the emotions of water, all of that is as we give gratitude as we interact, the cells in our body, our bodies’ water interacts with water around us. So it goes both ways. You know, we can take a glass of water with mint and cucumber that's organic, and drink that and aid our structuring of water inside our body. But also we could have gratitude for water and thank the water. And as we do that, that water becomes structured. You know, I live in a food forest, I literally am in a city. But I live in a food forest that I created for myself. And I will walk around and I thank my trees and my plants and I am so grateful when I can eat something off the bush, or I pick something and I can eat it off the ground. And that energy that I exude is shared back to me through the abundance that the food forest produces. I just love this. Well, we could probably talk about this forever. But as we are winding down, I wanted to ask how long does water stay structured? So if I fill my dog's water bowl, and we know it’s structured, put it down? How long does it remain that way? It won't unstructure unless you do something chemically to it. Like if you're living in an area with high EMF, that will affect it. Because we I've done studies doing live blood analysis. And we can affect our cellular water the fourth phase of water in a matter of minutes by just exposing ourselves to EMF. So you know, to answer your question, how much toxicity do you have in the house? Because that's going to affect it. Okay. Well, Dr. Siegel, I know that you are going to offer our listeners a free offer. Do you want to talk about that? OFFER Oh, yes, thank you, I completely forgot about that. So I I have a ebook, which it goes over all of these things that we just talked about, and much much more because it talks about detoxification and species appropriate diets and how to improve gut health and, and then it has links to all kinds of wonderful things. So that is www.holistichealingvet.com And then I do have some online courses. They're not free, but they're very inexpensive for pet parents who want to really take that deep dive to understand their pet’s biology, which of course, is their biology as well, and be able to truly move their pets from from surviving to thriving. And that's my mission is to help people get educated so that they can make the lifestyle choices that enable them to live the thriving, healthy, vibrant, long life that we're all looking for. And it's very simple to do. I just rattled off, like nine different things that people can incorporate in their life, that just doing that would make a dramatic change. Wow. And I love how you take the science, and you make it understandable for everybody to actually implement these changes in our life. So Dr. Siegel, I just want to thank you for being here and sharing this hopefully we've piqued some people's interest to research more. Where can everybody find out more information about you, your practice, and you are about to start the S’Paws Family Wellness detox centers, where can they learn more? Oh, thank you for bringing that up. It's Drmarlenesiegel.com. And that hub has the links to everything, the detox centers that are going to be a franchise which we're going to open worldwide. And those will be centers where people can receive the same therapies that we do in my office now for detoxification. And then the online resources. We have an online store, our supplement line, the Veterinary Hospital, the courses that we offer, just bought a freeze dryer so we're gonna take our food and be moving into some freeze dried options as well. We'll have a lot of things happening. Drmarlenesiegel.com is the place to keep track of everything. Social media links  DrMarleneSiegel.com.      https://www.facebook.com/marlene.siegel.1.    IG DrMarleneSiegel https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmarlenesiegel/.     https://twitter.com/msiegeldvm All right, well, all of these links, and your social media links are going to all be in the show notes. So everybody check out what Dr. Siegel is doing. She is making a difference for ourselves and our pets as well. So Dr. Siegel, thank you so much for being on I'm sure you'll be back because you have so much to share. I would appreciate it. I'd love to come back and and you guys have a wonderful life. that choices are yours. Our health is in our choices. Thanks again to the team at Mayu Water for sponsoring this episode.  Learn more by going to mayuwater.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL15 for $15 off.  Treat yourself and your dog to natural, living water. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hi there! This is Krista with Episode #161 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Just a reminder that you should probably check out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend. Now, you guys, these products are ones I've tried on my dog Winston and I've researched and I know like and trust. So these are probably products that will help your dog to thrive as well. So just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ and check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? Have you ever wondered why dogs tilt their heads? Well, according to experts, they do it for a couple of good reasons. First, they may be attempting to read their owner's body language and speech patterns to figure out what their owner is trying to say. And the other reason would be to adjust the outer ears to better detect the source of the sound. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Ana Melara has been working with dogs and their families for over two decades.  She is a Certified Professional Dog Trainer and member of the (APDT) Association of Professional Dog Trainers and a member of (IAABC) International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. She is advanced TAGteach Certified. Whether she is teaching basic manners, agility, puppy socialization, potty training, or addressing a dog’s aggression issues, Ana stresses to all of her human clients the profound importance that their gentle leadership plays in their dog’s training. I would like to thank all of the dog lovers joining us today. Welcome everyone. I am thrilled to be joined by my guest, Ana Malera. And she is covering your dog is not a robot. They are living sentient beings. So Ana, I first want to thank you for joining us today. I'm so happy you're here. Hi. I'm really happy to be here as well. This is gonna be fun. So, Ana, do you mind introducing yourself and telling us how did you get started working with dogs? Yes, yes, it’s such a fun story. And people are like what? Every time I talk about it. I'm a Certified Professional Dog Trainer-Knowledge Assessed (CPDT-KA®). I have been working with dogs and their families for about 25 ish years, originally in New York, and then out here in Colorado since 2001. In New York, I used to be an illustrator and graphic artist working in the fashion and advertising industry. So lots of high heels, lots of makeup and hair and really, really awesome clothing. And I started volunteering at a local pet supply store that had some rescue animals that they kept in the store. So, I cleaned cat cages and that kind of thing. And the next thing you know, I started falling in love with, you know, the really rough and tumble pitbulls that were getting rescued from fighting rings. And I was like, Hey, how can I get in on that? And so I started doing that and didn't know what the heck I was doing. And I learned from some other people, the methods way back then were quite aversive. So lots of choke chains and prong collars and stuff like that. And it just didn't feel good to me. So I was like, well look at what I can do with a cookie. And very quickly I started learning that, that you can actually get dogs to do stuff by luring and praising and that kind of thing. And over the years, I ultimately got off of luring. And now it's more relationship based. There's still plenty of cookies and rewards, and lots of play. Keeping everything really fun. Because one of the things that is scientifically proven is that when we feel safe, and we're happy, we learn much easier. And that goes for our animals as well. So in a nutshell. Cool! Well, Ana, when we say sentient beings, are we just saying that our dogs are sentient because they have the same capacity as we do to feel joy, happiness, but also the negative emotions like fear, pain and sadness? Are Dogs Sentient? Absolutely, absolutely. The thing that there's so many things that haven't been proven and so many things that have and I remember way back when I first started, I'm like this dog feels sad to me, this dog feels worried to me. And we way back then we were told like no dogs don't have feelings the way people do and I'm like, okay, but I still kind of think this, right? And then fast forward to you know, to the past 10-15 years, we've been discovering more and more about emotions in dogs and how they contribute also to our joy and so, so yes, across the board, fear and pain, discomfort, anxiety, empathy that we feel to others. So like when you can see in someone's body that they're not feeling well or they're they they look or feel distraught, animals can do that very same thing. I work a lot with service dogs who work for… they’re service dogs for like, let's say PTSD, or, or are people that have anxiety or a panic disorder. And one of the things that I noticed that as much as I teach the dog to do things, the dogs get it. Right. So they see one one recently is a young dog. She's just a year old. And she's a service dog in training. The other day her dad was telling me about how uncomfortable he was in the grocery store when a lady just decided to pet his dog. And it's just him telling me the story. I could hear it in his voice. And the dog went over and sat on his foot and leaned her body against him. And so things like that, like I didn't tell her to do that. And we didn't fully train that yet. But she picked it up. And she's like, I feel like he needs me. So yes, I, I think they have so much more than we give him we give him credit for. Yep, I totally agree. Well, I am super proud to be an American. But in some ways, I feel like we are so behind here in the United States. And what I mean by that is that our laws label dogs as property, like our cars or the kitchen table. But yeah, countries like Spain, and Portugal, France, Switzerland, Germany, and just recently, the UK has recognized animal sentience into law. So you know, the training collars that you mentioned that electrocute dogs, or pinch collars, they are banned, and new laws are being put into place to even tackle puppy or smuggling mills. So good for Europe. But why are we so behind here in the US recognizing dogs? Dogs Viewed as Property in the US You know, that's such a loaded question. I could just answer that question for forever. We still don't even get all of it. But I think that we have a certain way about us here in the United States where, where we want our rights to do whatever we want to. We see it in so many different ways. I think that so much of it has to do with that whole idea of property. And I'm free to do what I want. And that's kind of an angle that I kind of, honestly have the same question with you're like, come on, come on America, let's catch up. But I do believe that we're doing we're making strides. I mean, we're even looking at, like dog training as a career in general as as as a job as a career is an unregulated industry. And right now, we're actually going through the process of trying to figure out, how do we make it so we have to abide by a certain set of standards. And some of us are already getting certified in different ways. And I have multiple certifications under my name under my under my belt. But you know, we do have to get others on board. If everything is going to change. Well, we know that this show focuses on advocating for our dog's health and wellness. And I know that you also believe in advocating for our pups, but not making excuses for them. What do you mean by that? So when we have, let's say, a dog that is reactive or aggressive on leash when we're out, out in public, we have to be thoughtful about hey, you know, I as much as I want my dog to run free and go play ball and do all that stuff. I recognize that I can't just let my dog be off leash if he or she is not polite or friendly with other dogs. One of my dogs Tatonka, I love talking about him because he has just about everything wrong with him when I first got him some pretty severe aggression issues towards people towards dogs towards any little critter like bunnies or, or squirrels or anything else. And this dog, he he had a bite record on people and other dogs and one of the rumors was that he might have also killed a kitty. And so when I got him, I was like, alright, well, let's go ahead and see what we can do for you. But I'm not going to just go oh, he's my new perfect little angel and set him free on the world. There were a lot of clear boundaries that I had to set and I had to guide him through what to do and what not to do. All gently all in a way that he could absorb it. He had to feel safe before I could just start to let him, approach dogs or people and that kind of thing. But as far as the advocating for my dog, there were times I even remember when I first got him that people would say to me, he's so aggressive, you shouldn't have him out in public. And those were things that I had to kind of let it go in one ear and out the other because he has just as much of a right to be on the planet, and learn and grow. And he turned out to be such a lovely model citizen. He even went on to get his Canine Good Citizen, and even did some therapy work and did agility. And he also helped me raise lots of puppies, abandoned foster puppies, he was like, Oh, my God, this little anti dog. But, but yeah, you know, even though he didn't have it all together, when I first got him, he has every right to be on the planet. And I did everything in my power to keep everybody safe. So there were never any incidences over the 11 years that I had him. So yeah, I think it's important that you advocate for your dog, as well as make sure that you're responsible for, hey, you know, I've got this dog that doesn't do well off leash, I haven't trained it yet. Put them on a long line, or hire a trainer that's going to support you and guide you through it. But but not just Oh, well. Oh, well, the dog didn't come. It's fixable. Oh, yeah, a lot of stuff is fixable. Well, and I know that you're an expert on how our dog's behavior is actually affected by their health and wellness. So that's what I would really love to dive into. So yeah, why don't we start with what are some conditions that our dogs have health wise that might lead to behavior changes? Health Issues That Might Affect Behavior Yeah, there's so this is, this is such a huge can of worms, right? This is one of those situations where I will, if I'm called to someone's home, like they got an aggression problem, fear problem, being handled or touched, or just any kind of issue, I will immediately get into, what is the dog eating? Where are they sleeping? How old are they? How are they walking? How are they sitting? And by just getting a few questions answered, and even watching them walk around, or how they sit down or lie down, then I can I can say, hey, you know what I see that your dog is, every time he sits down, he kind of slides his one hip under the other. And it's always the same hip. Have you ever had his back checked? You ever had his hip checked? And they might go oh, he's always been like that? And I'll say, Yeah, you know, sometimes things are always like that, but doesn't mean that they're okay, correct or comfortable. And so oftentimes I will send before I even start training, I'll send the family to go go ahead and see an animal chiropractor, or even their veterinarian depending on what I'm seeing. Sometimes we want to change the diet all together. We see dogs that are licking their paws or scratching a lot. And people might complain about oh, he doesn't come when called, and he doesn't listen when I tell him to stay or this or that. And I'll say, well, sometimes dogs just don't feel good. And they hear you but they're like, Oh, I can't even focus. I feel that we have to look at how are they feeling first because it absolutely does show up in their manners, in their attention, in their comfort. I have a little foster dog here. She's a little Corgi. And I went to visit with her two days ago in the foster family in the foster home. And one of the things that I saw while one of the fosters was petting her, she rolled on her side and then onto her back and you could see that her ears were in a comfortable position. Her eyes were really squinty, her mouth was loose, the little paws were all comfortable. And she even slid onto her back and it all looked really really nice. And then as the person's hand started to slide towards the dog's belly, the dog closed her mouth, tightened her lips, her ears got tight to her back, and her eyes got wide. She didn't growl, she didn't nap. But immediately I said stop petting her. And we thought, what's what's going on with her and but it was right as my friend started to put her hand on the dog's belly and said, let's go ahead and do something. Let's get a look a full blood panel. And let's also see about does she have maybe some digestive issues or a urinary tract infection? And so they have, they've made an appointment for us to get her in. Because she is uncomfortable and she has, on the occasions that she has bitten it has been when they have been petting her belly. And so it is somehow related and we don't know what it is. Right and so, so I think that that's, that's an excellent example of the things that we might like to say like an untrained eye might not catch that. Right. And, and they obviously didn't catch it because they did get bit. So they were patting her patting her. And she's, she probably very likely gave those signals but they didn't know what they were looking for. And so ultimately the dog you know bit the family that owned her and so she's now in foster care and we're going to help her communicate and without without having to put her teeth on people. But we also want to make sure that whatever's not feeling good starts to feel better. Awesome. Well, Ana, this is a great place for us to pause and take a quick sponsor break so we'll be right back. A big thanks to this month’s sponsor Mayu Water…Inspired by nature, Backed by science.  “Now that I’ve learrned about the benefits of drinking structured water, our entire family, including our dog Winston, drink water from our Mayu Swirl. The Swirl is a hand-blown beautiful glass carafe that with it’s gorgeous porcelain base, uses an innovative vortex technolog,y creating structured, delicious water, filled with oxygen and a balanced pH level. Structured water plays an essential role in the functioning of cells in the body, strengthens immunity, and provides more energy and increased hydration. So important for both humans & dogs!   The entire line of Mayu glass products are dishwasher safe and the Swirl will improve the quality and taste of any water poured into it.  So why not stay well hydrated and treat yourself and your dog to the best water possible for a healthy long life?    Learn more by going mayuwater.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL15 for $15 off Welcome back, everyone, we are speaking with Ana Melara. And what a great point that you made before the break is that you know dogs have feelings. And when they don't feel well, obviously, their behavior is going to change. See we're talking about pain or discomfort. And we know so many things could cause that in our dogs, arthritis, allergies, ear infections, dental issues, if I had that I'd be irritable as well. So that is such a great point. And, you know, hypothyroidism, I know can manifest one. Yeah. You know, and now that you bring up thyroid, a lot of times, I've just learned this over the years, we often just clip our leashes to a dog's collar. And that constant pressure on that front of that throat, that's where the, that's where the thyroid lives. And we don't recognize until you know, the dog is five years old, six years old this constant pressure on their throat, every time they go for a walk. All of a sudden, we start to see like changes in their hair, changes in their diet ,in their in their appetite and retaining or losing too much weight and and then we look it up and you know, or get them checked out and we find out oh, the dog has a thyroid problem. I wonder how that happened. And it really has, it can have a lot to do with that constant pressure on the throat which is you know, something that was not even ever on my radar until I learned that a few years back. Fascinating. Well before we move on, you know, as far as health and how they feel, their cognition, you know, as dogs get older, some of them do get dementia, so that would have to play into their behavior. And yeah, changes in vision or hearing, you know, there's so many things that we just don't think about, you know, we want a certain outcome and why isn't my dog behaving the way I want them to? Senior Dogs And oftentimes we get the we hear the comments. Oh, he's just so stubborn. in his older years. He's gotten so stubborn or defiant. Right and so that's really not the case. You know, if a dog if you're asking a dog to sit and he has always sat his entire life and you ask him to sit and he's older and he takes his time or he doesn't do it at all, or he decides to walk off and sniff he's telling you sitting hurts me or sitting’s uncomfortable I don't want to do it. Maybe he's not being he or she is not being defiant they're probably not not feeling it in their hips or in their whatever part of their body their knees or what have you and so, so I do give dogs leeway, especially when they're getting older. I really pay attention to know what's happening. Are you one example that like my Tatonka used to do is when he wanted to go outside to the to go to the bathroom, he would go to the door And as he got older, he would go to any door to stand there at the door and I'm like, sweetie, do you need something and he's like, I gotta go out and I'm like, Let's go this way. And I would sometimes tap him on the shoulder or, or kind of touch his tail or his booty. So he would go, Oh, what's going on? And like we're going this way. We have to be reminded. My Gracie when she was getting older, I would have to carry her down one step, in order to go for a walk. I would carry her and place her just two feet away from when he picked her up off of a step. And she's like, alright, let's walk and we would walk and then she'd stop. And she'd look at me like, can you carry me? And I'm like, alright, I'll carry you. We do have to listen and listen with our eyes. Watch what they're telling us watch what they're looking at. My Chihuahua is sitting right here. And I've got a turkey heart on the table here where I'm sitting, and she looks at the turkey heart. And then she sits down. And then she stands up. And she looks at the turkey heart they're really pretty amazing at telling us. And I do think that when they do get older, they get forgetful. Like my Tatonka, He would actually he would go to a door. And especially towards the very end, he would go to the door. Any door he was standing at like a kitchen cabinet door. I was like, Oh, sweetie, it's not that way. Yeah, he's like, yeah, it's the door, right? So you're standing by the door, and I'm like, Alright, let's go potty outside. And he and I guided him and he went, when poop right on the rug. I was like, alright, that's perfect. That's a perfect spot. Because we do have to recognize, you know that they're not doing it to be naughty, especially if they've been going potty in the right place for so many years. They don't all of a sudden just turn into bad dogs, you know, sometimes they forget, or they simply can't hold it the way they used to. True. Well, Ana, you mentioned before quickly about their diet. So I have to ask you, do you think that the amount of dogs that are actually eating commercial processed food, kibble has brought on the surge of behavior problems? Does it come into play there? Food and Behavior Issues Yeah, I think I think it's a, I think it's a big factor. You know, because that because like I look at, like, if we were to just look at like the dogs that I've had in my career in my lifetime, I learned from only my second or my third dog that like he couldn't process highly processed foods. kibble very well at all, he had inflammatory bowel disease. He also had hip dysplasia. He was a like a Sable, Shepherd, maybe Malamute? Maybe a little wolf in there type of mix. He was he ran about 85 pounds, lean healthy weight. And so when I got him, I was like, gosh, I'm struggling with like, how do I get him to be more healthy? How do I get to a place where he can stomach different things so I would literally dive across the room to try and get a cookie out of his throat if somebody gave him something that wasn't on the menu, or for him to be able to process and, and so ultimately, I switched him to a cooked diet. And then finally a raw diet and the raw diet worked best for him. By no means am I saying that everybody has to get on a raw diet, but I I keep finding again and again and again. And again. I use the example of my my dog that his inflammatory bowel completely healed. Right. So it just it became completely non existent. Which also the only other veterinary care that he got, like super regularly. I mean, he did, he did see a holistic vet, but we saw an animal chiropractor on a regular basis. And so his wonderful muscle tone. You know, his his skeletal structure was great. His diet was really good. The allergies were gone. So the inflammatory bowel disease was gone. And then ultimately, we never, I mean, we were told by when he was diagnosed with hip dysplasia, we were told, okay, only walk him on grass. Only take him for really short walks, keep his weight really, really lean. And, you know, you have to use this medication that medication and keep him on this kibble. And I was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. And this dog lived a super full, full life paddleboarding, swimming, running, playing, super athletic, and all of that muscle built around these not so great hips, but because he was in good alignment, and he had a great diet to support it. He just thrived. I mean, that dog lived to be 17 years old, you know. So it's kind of crazy, right? So, so I think, I think that if we do use diet as a good foundation, we're gonna see everything else that falls into place. Right? So like, because if you put good food in your body, I mean, you know, even ourselves, right? If we eat really well, we feel really good, we hydrate, we go to sleep and have a really good sleep. We wake up and we're alive and happy and lively. energetic and all of that. And so, but you know, I took a took a road trip last summer with my daughter for we went to New York for a month and on this road trip, but we ate a lot of junk food. And I was like, gosh, I could feel my body kind of like, muah, muah, muah…I had to check myself until you know what we've got to make grocery store stops and not just gas station stops for Cheetos and Mountain Dew. So yeah, it's tastes good. But it backs the effects of a really good having a really rock solid diet and hydration, and know stretching and playing and all of that. That's so valuable, I think across the board. Because if you're feeling good, you're going to make good choices. When you're feeling good, you're going to know to ask for help when something doesn't feel right. But if you're always not feeling good, that doesn't help you. Well, Ana as we are winding down, we can't talk about food and diet without addressing a healthy gut. Because it's scientifically proven that your dog's gut influences their mood, which would affect their behavior. So, you know, with the right diet, and the proper bacterial balance in the gut. It's all essential for you know, as you mentioned, energy, mood, happiness, motivation, being content, and therefore trainability. And, exactly, I think that's why that fabulous organ known as the gut is also called the second brain. So I love that you're pointing this out, I just, I would never think of this, how much our health does affect our behavior. I love this love this. So what we're looking at is keeping our dogs healthy, reducing inflammation, therefore, lessening pain, increase their energy level, you mentioned it perfectly higher muscle mass increases confidence and mood. And I mean, it just goes hand in hand. So I just love this conversation. So whenever I see somebody in their home, for the first time, we spend quite a bit of time just going through their dog cupboard, where I have them, their, their bag of dog food, or whatever it is that they're feeding, and all of the treats and stuff. And I have a very clear, unapologetic angle. When I come into it, I say, Okay, this is not a judgement, this is just education. And you can take it and adjust it to what fits your family, your budget, you know, what, what is available in your area, and so on. And so I always tell people this what you have right now, and this is something I would not continue to do, here are some options for some foods, or this is a store in your area that you can get XYZ food, I would go ahead and cut out these treats, and these treats would be better. And so I'll give some really nice guidance. And some people might go from, you know, bottom of the barrel food to top notch stuff, or, or even cooking for their own dog or what have you. And so they might go from bottom of the barrel to really wonderful stuff. And some people will go from your middle of the road to just one notch improvement. And all I care about is that you do your very, very best for your dog and then do your very, very best and then do your very, very best. Yep, I totally agree. So we have to remember that the nutrients, amino acids and the enzymes actually help regulate the hormones and neurotransmitters that actually influence our dog's behavior. So comes full circle. Okay, Ana, we are running out of time, but I know that you wanted to offer our listeners Gracies Freezies. So can you tell us about that? OFFER: Gracie’s Freezies Yeah, absolutely. Gracie’s Freezies is something that I developed a while back. We're now we're now taking it a little bit bigger. Basically what we do is we have really those natural rubber toys that we've stuffed with yogurt, peanut butter and pumpkin. They're all organic. We freeze them, and we deliver them to your door. And your dog can have them throughout the week. And then the following week, you set out your empties, and we bring a new fresh batch to your door. Right now we're only offering it in Denver, Colorado, but our intention is to expand across the country, you can visit our website at https://gracedog.com/services/freezies/. And you're welcome to give us a call at our at our home office, which is 303.238. DOGS (3647). Ana, where can everyone find out more information about you and Grace Dog? Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GraceDogTraining/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracedogco/?hl=en Website: https://gracedog.com/ Perfect. Well, I will put all of these links and information in the show notes as well. Before we leave Ana, do you have any parting words for us? Give your dog a cookie. Awwww, so simple. Because your dog is waiting patiently. Well, thank you, Ana. This was fabulous. And to your point, we could talk about this for forever. The science behind this is there and the studies. So I encourage all of our listeners to research further. And Ana, thank you so much for being with us today. You're very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks again to the team at Mayu Water for sponsoring this episode.  Learn more by going to mayuwater.com and be sure to use the discount code WOL15 for $15 off.  Treat yourself and your dog to natural, living water. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hello everyone this is Krista with Episode #160 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Did you know that a dog's whiskers actually serve a purpose? They help dogs navigate the world by detecting objects or movement. So they're amazing whiskers can actually detect subtle changes in air currents, and then transmit that information about the size, shape and speed of nearby objects. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Julie Holmes has been part of Unique Manufacturing in several different roles since it started in 1995. She is now the Brand Director for the Pet Care line because pets are her passion. So, she knows a bit about bacteria, the good kind. Julie has 2 dogs, a cat, 35 chickens and 4 peacocks. Welcome dog lovers! I am so glad that you're here to join us on the topic of how to tackle tinkle with science and with me today is Julie Holmes. And Julie, first of all, I want to thank you so much for being on the show today. How are you? I'm great. And I am so excited to be on the show. I always learned so much from you. I know! All of our experts, I always learn something. So you are here to teach us about this amazing science. So before we get started, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what got you interested in this science and cleaning technology to use on pet odors and stains? Okay, well, thank you. So my name is Julie Holmes and I am the Brand Director for the Pet Care Division of Unique Manufacturing and Marketing. And we use bacteria to clean with. And it all started with apartment complexes that would just rip out carpet if they had pets in it. The owner of the company, the founder, which is actually my father, was in the janitorial supply business. And so that's how it all started. And he said we have got to find an alternative. There's got to be something out there that works. And so we started learning more about bacteria. And we have had been learning about it since the mid 90s. And it has been our whole area of expertise. So we just focus on bacteria for cleaning. So it works for stains and odors. It works in holding tanks. It works in septics, it has so many uses, and it's all natural, and you know, it's just fun to see how it works. Very cool. Well, we're gonna dive a little deeper. But Julie, let's face it, okay, we all have dogs, and our dogs are going to have accidents in the house. It's inevitable, you know? Urine, bile, vomit, poo. So speaking of vomiting, I think the sound of your dog about to vomit that has to be the worst sound on the planet. Oh, it wakes you out of a dead sleep, doesn't it? Well, why don't we first talk about what is usually found in the typical household cleaners that we usually consider using on these type of accidents. Toxic Cleaners So usually what's out there are chemicals, different kinds of chemicals. Then there's surfactants, which we have a little bit of surfactant in our product, but some are just all surfactant based. And surfactants are soaps. So that's how they clean. And then a lot of products are masking agents. So really, they're just dumping perfume to get rid of the smells and odors, but they're not getting rid of it at its source. And that's what we like to do. Well, what are your thoughts on I've seen products now with essential oils. Essential Oils So certain ones are safe. I mean, you have to you know, cats tend to be more sensitive than dogs with essential oils. We have perfumes in our products. But we can't use essential oils because of how that bacteria because it's a live spore would react to that. So we do have some perfumes but very slight, and ours are all there's a type of perfume that's created and it's called designed for the environment. And so they're all very safely created so they don't have allergens and things. But that's the problem with some essential oils is your cat may be sensitive, your dog may be sensitive. So you just have to be careful with those, you don't want to use too much of it. So we use very, very little perfume, because we're not masking anything. But there is a bit of a perception in people that they like to have a clean scent as they're cleaning. But we do have some products in our line that have absolutely no perfume, because we know there's so many people with sensitivities. Well, I'm glad you brought that up that you know a lot of products we're talking about, not only the stain itself, but to your point, we don't want the odor at all, because we know that it's just nature, that our dogs sometimes like to go in the same spot. Or maybe we take our dog to somebody else's house and they smell an old odor from another dog, well, especially male dogs, they want to mark and they're going to, they're going to pee right on that exact spot. So we're talking about getting rid of the stain, and the odor. And you mentioned a lot of products are just trying to mask the odor through these fragrances. So what makes your products different in actually getting rid of the odor. Bacteria So ours actually eat it, which always sounds a little bit strange. But what happens is the bacteria creates an enzyme. And an enzyme’s job is to break down organic waste. So it goes to work, breaking that down, small enough for the bacteria to literally go in and eat it. So it continues working. When you first put it on, the stain will go away almost immediately. But that bacteria just keeps growing every 20 minutes, it will reproduce itself. And then it just keeps going as long as there's moisture and a food source. And that food source is urine, vomit, blood, it’s anything organic, even a lot of food, you know your food items are organic. So it gets rid of that as well. But it's truly breaking it down eating it and removing it so there's nothing left. So then the dogs there's nothing left for the dogs to smell. And then they won't go back and mark. I love this technology because it is natural. And I think cat pee has to be the worst as far as odor and stains. And I know that new homeowners that have to buy a house where cats have lived. You've mentioned it, you know you have to rip out the carpeting and start a new because there hasn't been anything to actually remove the stains and odors that might have been there forever. And you've been through this yourself, Julie. So tell us your story. Well, we bought a house and we got a great deal on it. But it had nine breeding dogs in it. So there was so much urine. They also had rabbits. They had cat.s The rabbits were free running all over the house. And so this house had a lot of stains and odors. And it's a mountain home. So it has rough cedar walls. So the dogs would hike their leg on the walls, cats would spray on the walls. So we tore out the carpet and still when people would go to walk in it would it would almost knock you over. And we just started using our products. We went through 16 gallons, but we sprayed every wall every floor. Everything we could think of. There was a rabbit hutch pushed against a wall that had that was rough cedar and you know rabbits spray and it's it's a calcium buildup. If you've ever been around a rabbit hutch, it puts this white stuff on the wall or anything behind it. And that's a calcium buildup and it broke all that down. And we had a dog at the time that was unneutered. So he was our test guy, and he came in, walked through the whole house. There was one post, he walked over and hiked his leg on it and we said we did not treat that post. We treated it and he never had another accident again in our house. So we know it worked and you know you become paranoid so everybody that comes in you're like do you smell anything? Do you smell any? No, I swear to you. I'm not just being nice as a friend. Because nobody wants their house to smell like that. That's a huge fear of we all have when we have pets. Sure. Well, Julie, you mentioned that these products have bacteria. But some of us have also heard of enzymes in certain products. So what's the difference between the two? Enzymes versus bacteria? Enzymes Enzymes are great. They're the, they're the guys that are breaking things down. But if you have a bottle that’s enzyme only, you have however many enzymes is in that bottle. But the amazing thing with bacteria is because it is live, it's in spore form in the bottle. But once it gets on the floor, and has a food source, it starts reproducing itself. So it creates unlimited numbers of enzymes, because it just keeps making enough enzymes that break down the waste small enough for that bacteria to eat it. So you get a much more thorough job because it's an enzyme will break down the stain and odor. But it's still in your carpet. And what happens is, as you walk over, it kind of comes back up. So if you've ever had that situation where you've cleaned, it looks great, it doesn't smell and then a week or two later, because did they go there again, or what's going on? And that's where that's coming back up as we walk on the carpet so that what the bacteria does, is it allows those enzymes to break it down and then it goes in and eats it. I always picture little PacMan running through my carpet like they just keep reproducing and eating, eating, eating and making that little noise. And they're just in there doing that. And then when there's no food source, then they turn into water and carbon dioxide and go away. So there's also nothing left on your carpet, which I like that because it stays cleaner longer. Right. Well Julie, I think this is a great spot for us to take a pause and listen to our sponsor for the month. So everybody hold on and we'll be right back with Julie. Thanks so much to the team at System Saver for being this month’s feature sponsor. Dr. Baker’s Canine System Saver is an outstanding all-natural supplement that promotes healthy aging.  Originally created by a veterinarian to help restore health and soundness to dogs suffering from chronic inflammatory and degenerative conditions, this is one product that does so much! Perfect for: arthritis, hip dysplasia & joint support, chronic dermatitis, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, and geriatric support for successful aging and quality of life extension. At 13 yrs old,my dog Winston has a better quality of life and has found so much more energy being on this amazing product!” Now with the start of allergy season, System Saver works wonders on canine allergies as well. Learn more by going to http://caninesystemsaver.com/ to relieve your dog’s discomfort naturally.  And as a bonus, Wag Out Loud listeners can take advantage of a 10% discount by using the code WOL10 at checkout! All right, we are back speaking with Julie Holmes, about how to tackle tinkle with science. And I just I love as everybody knows, and you all listen to this show, because we love alternative, natural, holistic, integrative approaches to, you know, just enhance the health of our dogs. And we've had people on the show before about why household cleaners and chemicals that we use commonly in our homes are not good for ourselves or our dogs. So Julie, you were just telling us about the difference between bacteria and enzymes and really how they work together in getting rid of stains and odors. So when we buy a product, the bottle, both of the bacteria and enzymes are living in this liquid that we use to clean. How long are they living in there? How Long Does the Bacteria Live in the Bottle? Okay, so when we bottle them up, they're in spore form. And we officially say two years. But what's amazing because we have so much bacteria in our product. We keep back a bottle from every batch we make. And so last year we went back through those bottles and we said let's go back 10 years and we brought a bottle out. We do will stain our things with coyote urine or other things so that we can really test them. And we poured that product on, and it's still work. So it's, you know, the bacteria can live a long time in that bottle. But we hope people use it before two years. Typically, you know, I've had people say, oh, like, my dog never has an accident. And I tend to use it for all kinds of things. Because I do have dogs that will eat something and throw up or, you know, I use it my garden, because they pee on my flower containers and that kind of stuff. So I tend to go through it within two years. But we have to officially say two years, but we know it goes much longer just because the amount of bacteria in that bottle. Interesting. And I think you told me when we first met, that the bacteria that you use are aerobic. What does that mean? So they need oxygen, you know, they some bacterias, like we have bacterias, that would go in your septic you can't. Those are, they can't be aerobic because they don't get oxygen down there. So with our products, when you use them on stains, and odors, we always tell people to put a damp towel over there over the stain and odor. And that just helps it to work faster and keeps that bacteria damp. So I've had people say, Well, I just put a plastic bag or it's like, no, no, no, then it can't breathe. We need our bacteria to breathe. So it can keep growing. And do these stains, go all the way down to the sub floor, you know, through the carpet, through the backing of the carpet. Are you saying that these enzymes and bacteria actually go all the way through? All the way through? Yes. And that's what's so good about it. Because you think of if your pet has you're at work all day or you're gone, and your pet has an accident? Well, if it sat there for several hours, it is all the way through. So now you have to you know, you've got to clean that all the way down, or else it will come back that you know, stain and odor will come back. And it can entice your pet to go back there because those pheromones in there will draw them in. So that's another nice part of a bacteria. And a pheromone is organic material. So the bacteria will move that. So that will stop if you've got a habitual issue. You know, you've got to do some behavioral stuff. But if they're going back to that spot, just because of the odor, we can you know, we're getting rid of that. So we can stop that cycle. And for really bad stains like I can imagine blood for one, do we have to repeat the process more than once? Sometimes you do blood actually. Amazingly, it's usually one time. And when we tell people to put the damp towel over and we always say white or cream. And people always say why do you say white or cream, we just don't want to color transference. But when you lay that towel on it, you just leave it for several hours or overnight. When you take that up, you'll see a lot of the stain right there. So it helps pull that out. If you put it in the washing machine, it will wash right out. But it you know, seems like when cats throw up a hairball that's tricky there cuz there's that Bile is very acidic and strong. So that usually takes a couple times. Also, if you know sometimes people think the pets just had one accident there. And what they don't realize until they start cleaning it is that pet has been going there quite a bit. And there's more urine there than they realize. One of the things that happens when you use a bacteria is you'll get an ammonia smell. And if you think like when your pet first has an accident, you don't smell anything for a day or two. It's when the natural bacteria starts breaking that down that you get that ammonia smell well, with our products, you're hitting it with lots and lots of bacteria. So you'll get you can get a really strong ammonia smell if there's a lot of urine there. So we always say you know, we have warnings from the boss you smell here and that's okay. It's gonna go away when it's when the product has done. You won't smell anything, but it may seem very strong as you're cleaning it, but just hang in there. Well, I love the products. I've used them. As everybody knows, I only promote products that I've tried and know like and trust. And these products are amazing. You know, I've used it on Winston, for bile and for urine. And I'm just amazed at there is nothing left behind. But I have to ask you, we're talking about the house that you bought that there was A rabbit and cat pee sprayed on the wall. So I know how to take care of it on a carpet. And you mentioned, you know, putting a light colored towel over it. How do you treat walls? If you don't have, you know, a horizontal surface? Treating Different Surfaces Yeah, you can't put a towel on the wall. No. We just tell people, you just spray it and you can spray it on. As long as it's a surface that water won't damage. And then I was thinking, well, the urines are already there, you know doing its thing. So we just tell people to spray it on the wall, you can spray it on drywall, what we find sometimes, especially with cat is they like to go in corners, they like to spray in corners, and it will get behind the baseboard. Same with a tall dog. If he hides his leg on the wall and it goes behind the baseboard. We tell people just to pour it along the baseboard and let it get down in there. And you might have to do it a couple times in a situation like that. So it gets down in there, but it'll get it out. And that's what we had to do we just and you can use a pump up if the large area, you get one of those one quart pump up garden sprayers and you use the concentrate and put it in there and you just pump that up and spray the wall, let it dry, you still smell it, you do it again, until you don't smell it. And what about other types of surfaces? What about hardwood floors or bedding, you know, the dog bed, what do you suggest for those types of surfaces? So on those. So on a dog that if if they just have like a little mess up, you can just put some on there, we do have a pet bed cleaner. But you can also use our concentrate if you're going to use use it in the washing machine. So and I started the pet bed cleaner because I fed my Mastiff raw bones. And so he's already kind of drooly, and now he's chewing a bone on his dog bed. And I knew that was unsanitary. So you just can spot clean it. If you have the kind of bed that you can take the cover off, you take it off, put it in the washing machine, and you can just use our product in there, rather than detergent. And it will it will clean it. If you have a front load washing machine like I have, you have to make it do a pre wash because it can't sit in water like a top load. If you have a top load, fill it up, put the bedding in there, put you know an ounce or two of the product and let it sit for an hour or so and then wash it through. So you can do it that way it works. If a pet has an accident on a bed, or like say even a couch or a chair that has padding, you want to pour some on and then you press it down. So it goes you want it to go into that foam or fiber whatever it is creating the padding on there because the urine went all the way down there. So we want to get down to that. On hardwood, typically the top is sealed. So it tends to go where the seam is. So we we have a hard floor cleaner, you can turn it to the the spray and just spray directly in that crack. With carpet, you get it more damp and with wood. We just don't we want to be cautious for the the underlayment so you just pour you know put a little bit in at a time, let it dry kind of smell and then just keep doing that till you don't smell it. And on tiles. It's again usually the tile field it's more the grout and grout is really absorbent. So just pour it in the grout and leave it there. Just let it do its thing. I have slate floors and I the same Mastiff that ate raw bones was also a happy peer until when we had guests over, he would just like dribble everywhere. So I just followed him with a bottle of the ready to use and I would just pour it and I would leave it puddles and people are like, are you gonna do anything with that like Nope, we're just gonna let it do its thing. Clean it up and not have you know, leaving a stain or anything like that wouldn't show any watermarks or anything. So Julie, are any customers skeptical on this science? Some are at first because it feels in and it's a different process normally you like if we're using a chemical you spray it on, you wipe it right off. And this we're saying Nope, you pour it on and leave it on. Let it be damp. So that feels different to people. It's a different cleaning process. But once they use it and see the results are like oh my gosh, and they love telling people about it. Yup. I'm one of those. Well, Julie as we are wrapping up, is there anything that you would like to leave us with? Where Does the Bacteria Come From? Well, one thing I would say, you know, I didn't mention it and where the bacteria comes from, it actually comes from soil. So that's how it's natural, like, that's where the bacteria comes out. And then it's selected from the soil and then grown and then we put it in the bottle and liquefy it. So it's a pretty fascinating process. So it's, it's kind of fun, but the science behind it is really pretty fun to to learn about. Well, hopefully we've piqued your interest. And Julie and her team have given us a great offer for you to try these amazing products that I just love. Always good to have on hand for sure. So the website is TackleTinkle.com. I love that and use the code WAGOUTLOUD15 for 15% off of your first two orders, and all of this information plus the URL and social media tags will be in the show notes with links. So you guys can go there as well. Again, if you want to learn more about the company and the science, Julie and her part, TackleTinkle.com. Julie, thank you so much for sharing this with us. And I really hope that our listeners have found a product that just like me, you can know like and trust. And as we mentioned in the beginning, these pet accidents are inevitable, as well as our own accidents. You know, we spill wine and food and all that good stuff. So, Julie, thank you. You're awesome. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unique_pet_care/?hl=en          Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/uniquepetproduct          LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-holmes-85a47a24/ Well, thank you. It's been so fun to be able to talk with you. And I'm just so glad to be on your show. So thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Take care, everybody. Thanks again to our friends at System Saver for sponsoring this month’s episodes .  Check out this fantastic all-natural formula by going to http://caninesystemsaver.com/ and be sure to use the code WOL10 for 10% off! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hi there. This is Krista with Episode #159 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. I just wanted to remind you that you should probably check out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend. Because these are products that I have tried on my dog, Winston, and that I know like and trust, I've done all the research for you. And these products will also help your dog to thrive. So just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ and check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life. Here's an interesting fact. A dog's sense of smell is reduced by up to 40% when they are overheated and panting, and that's because they're using the air to cool themselves rather than for smelling. And another interesting fact is that puppies have heat sensors in their noses to help find their mother during the time when their eyes and ears are closed right after they're born. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. James Jacobson is the Founder of Dog Podcast Network, which is entirely devoted to dogs and the people who love them. DPN brings together James’ two passions: dogs and the world of podcasting. He waited a long time for his own dog. He waited even longer for the podcasting world to be ready for his vision. James knows the bond we share for our dogs connects us in a very special way. He firmly believes we need this connection, now, more than ever. Hello dog lovers! I am so glad that you're here and willing to learn more about your dog's wellness. Today I'm honored to be joined by James Jacobson. He is the founder of the Dog Podcast Network and James and I have been chatting for the last couple years, I think, so I'm so excited to have him finally on this show. James, thanks for being here. My pleasure. I am delighted to finally join you on on your Show. I know this has been planned for a while. So this is gonna be a lot of fun everybody and a great learning experience. So stay with us. James, would you mind introducing yourself and tell us why are you so passionate about all things dog? Well, that I am I guess I am a dyed in the wool dog lover, I have ended up building basically a whole bunch of businesses that focus on dog lovers vs dog owners, the people who really love their dog. And I kind of happened into it. Because when I was a kid, I was promised a dog when I turned 10. And I never got one Krista. And finally, when I got on my own in my 20s I got a dog and I was hooked. And I did everything I could. And I learned as much as I could about keeping dogs healthy. And then I did weird projects like I did a video. Many, many when I was in my 20s I was an animal communicator talking about you know, animal communication and introducing people to that concept and, and then, and then I didn't do stuff for a while. And then a bunch of other businesses I had and then I ended up moving to Hawaii. And then when I moved to Hawaii, and sold my companies, I didn't know what to do. And I said I'm going to write a book about something that I have done my whole life, since I got a dog which was meditating with my dog. And that's how this whole journey started with a very silly book that turned out to be a best seller. And I flew on Oprah’s jet and did all sorts of things. But it all started with a silly book, How to Meditate With Your Dog. And here we are, well, we're going to talk about meditating with our dogs. I said, this is going to be fun. And I mean it everybody. This is going to be amazing. We're going to cover a few different topics today, which is really cool. And James is going to be talking about manifesting the ultimate connection with our dogs. So James, I know that you've been quoted that you believe that we need this connection with our dogs. Now more than ever. Can you expand on that? Our Connection To Dogs Absolutely. Well, I think you know, we are living in some pretty interesting times. And dog lovers, people that you talk to on your podcast, people that we talk to on our podcasts are truly special people. They have an open heart, they're loving, they want to do what's right for their dog. They have just this big heart. And in these crazy times that we're living in, I think there's an opportunity for us to connect with other dog lovers all over the world, because that love and that commonality that we have, doesn't matter what political agenda we have or what beliefs we have. Our common love for dogs is so important. And that's why I like to do everything I can to help bring dog lovers together. I love that. Well, let's do a deep dive, we're gonna go back to the very beginning. And again, you wrote the book on meditating with your dog. I can't believe it's 2005. You did this? That's been a while? Meditating With Your Dog I did. Yeah. Well, I was I was a meditator my whole life as a kid. But it wasn't until I had a dog that I realized that dogs are natural meditation partners. I would show people who were reluctant to meditate like, Oh, this is some, you know, weird Eastern thing I can never meditate. And then I’d say, Hey, if you love your dog, you can you can leverage that love into a meditation practice, because dogs live in the moment, they are totally present. If you kind of ever looked at a dog, that is what I call in “hound lounge” where their eyes are half open. They're very much…they're perfect meditators. And so I have shown through the book and through classes I used to teach that it's incredibly easy to do, you just have to give it a shot and kind of put one hand on the dog's chest and another hand on the dog butt. So depending upon the size of the dog, you can either you know, have them sit on a chair with you in a comfortable place, or get down on the floor with them if they're really big dog, and do that and focus on the breath, which is a normal part of the pasna meditation, which is a focus on the craft. And after doing this for a really short period of time, sometimes as little as a few days or a week or two, your dog will totally love it and get into it and appreciate the bonding time. And you will begin this beautiful, sweet practice that once you start, you will realize why haven't I been doing this my whole life with my dog. And it's a beautiful thing. That in a very quick distillation of what how to meditate with your dog is all about. Well, I love that you bring this up, because I don't know about you. But we all have stress and anxiety. And of course our dogs can feel that. So they appreciate when we actually take a moment to be at peace. So they are the perfect meditators. I totally agree with you. And I meditate with Winston on the Calm app. I love that app. And you're right, you do need to touch them. And as soon as he knows that, I'm going to our meditation space, he jumps up on the couch, and he's right next to me, let's do this. He's excited. So I encourage everybody, if you're not doing this with your dog, it is going to bring a total peace at least the time that you're doing the meditation it's going to bring bring so much peace to your life. And it is a great bonding experience. And James, don't you agree that even taking our dogs on walks can be a kind of meditation practice? Yes, I talk about that, which is like sort of an Oh, so there's a thing in meditation philosophy, called an open eyed meditation. So in How to Meditate With Your Dog, I talked about walking meditations with your dog, dog walks where you kind of do it at the dog's pace, which is you sniff the hydrant and you sniff the flowers and you go around, and you become incredibly conscious and look at the world and see the world and pour into all the dog’s senses, the way they see the world and that is in and of itself a meditation practice. You don't need a soundtrack, you don't need anything. You just need to be present with your dog on those walks. And that can turn it into a meditation. But you have to be very conscious and deliberate about it. But the dogs will totally dig it. More recently I've been calling it a sniffari. Letting the nose drive the dog. And that is an open eyed meditation. It's different for sure than a closed eyed meditation, we are in one place. But it is another way of savoring the moment and just being there. And all of this helps dogs. I mean, the benefits are like there's so many it helps in terms of things like separation anxiety and anxiety in general. It helps human beings obviously because of all the stressful times we live in. And it just helps the the dynamics in the family. As you pointed out you said you know Winston picks up on any stresses and stuff that are happening. They do that. And so the more common, the more regularly you do this, hopefully daily just for him 20 minutes, it can make an amazing difference. I agree. And I really encourage people when you are out on these meditation type walks with your dogs, don't bring your phone, don't bring your music and your earbuds. Make it a true present time in nature for the two of you. I think I do my best thinking during our dog walks, because my mind is so open. I couldn't agree more, I am lucky enough to live on the beach. And almost every morning, my dog and I walk on the beach right now she's getting a little old and arthritic. So the sand is a little tough. So we go in the grass above it. But being out there in nature is just extraordinary. And being barefoot, if you can, if the weather permits, that there's a whole bunch of people talking about the importance of grounding, which sounds all very deep again. But it's just really connecting with the earth and so doing that, and mimicking and modeling what our dogs have to teach us. So extraordinary. Yes, I agree. And back to the closed eye meditation with your dog. It's funny how you both your breathing is in sync. And it just falls into sync, so naturally. It is. When I first came out with the book in 2005… I feel very old. People thought oh, this some sort of gimmick. But I mean, I was on Jay Leno and CNN and did all this stuff. And a lot of the TV producers thought they would be pretty clever. They would bring me this like dogs who I’d never met and then have to meditate with the dog live on television. And sometimes they brought me some nasty dogs, but you know what, it worked out every time. Because the dogs just they get it, they get the intentionality. And they really do follow your breath if you had sort of a dog trainer mindset, but they get it in a very cool way. Well, I encourage everybody to try it. If you've never done it is a super cool experience that once you start doing it, it becomes a habit and something both you and your dog look forward to. So thank you, James, that was awesome. We're now going from a happy calming subject to a not so happy subject of dog cancer. But James, you have been in this field for 13 years now. And you say dog cancer diagnoses does not have to be a death sentence. So do you want to unpack that a little bit? Coping with Canine Cancer Well, as you know, cancer is the number one killer of dogs, one in three dogs get cancer. And if you have a dog who's 10 years or older, the odds are 1 in 2, 50% of dogs over 10 get cancer and some breeds like Golden Retrievers. The odds are even worse 75% of Golden Retrievers die, die of cancer, and it’s horrible. And I only discovered this when, because of the success of how to meditate with your dog. People started writing me and telling me about their dogs. And I learned about the prevalence of cancer. And that's when I connected with my then veterinarian and then later on my business partner, Dr. Demian Dressler, who is one of the world's most respected dog cancer veterinarians on creating a book called The Dog Cancer Survival Guide. Him and Dr. Susan Ettinger wrote the book and it's sort of the Bible of dog cancer. 500 pages and it talks about everything you need to know to you know, help your dog with cancer and as you say it is about viewing cancer from a different lens not as a death sentence, but instead of as a thing that you can live with and thrive with because at the end of it all, we all want quality of life for our dog. And so I have basically spent since I got onto this journey with dog cancer, most of my time has been focused on helping to improve the quality of life for dogs and the people who love them and so many of those dogs have cancer and we've figured out all sorts of ways to help them live better lives. Oh, that's fantastic. Well James, we're gonna get a little deeper into this because you are super close to this topic. We are going to take a quick sponsor break and we will be right back. Thanks so much to the team at System Saver for being this month’s feature sponsor. Dr. Baker’s Canine System Saver is an outstanding all-natural supplement that promotes healthy aging.  Originally created by a veterinarian to help restore health and soundness to dogs suffering from chronic inflammatory and degenerative conditions, this is one product that does so much! Perfect for: arthritis, hip dysplasia & joint support, chronic dermatitis, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, and geriatric support for successful aging and quality of life extension. At 13 yrs old,my dog Winston has a better quality of life and has found so much more energy being on this amazing product!” Now with the start of allergy season, System Saver works wonders on canine allergies as well. Learn more by going to http://caninesystemsaver.com/ to relieve your dog’s discomfort naturally.  And as a bonus, Wag Out Loud listeners can take advantage of a 10% discount by using the code WOL10 at checkout! We're back and we are speaking with James Jacobson from the Dog Podcast Network. And we are speaking about cancer. And James before we left for the break, I know that you have had two dogs I believe that have been diagnosed with cancer. Can you share your journey? Yeah. So Kanga and Roo are Maltese that I have. Roo passed earlier actually late last year from from cancer. And Kanga our other dog has had it for about three years, and has been thriving, but she's getting up there now she's approaching 14. And that's the other thing is like, you know, when that was first diagnosed, they're like, she's just totally beating the odds by doing the things that are talked about in the book like the dog cancer diet, and we use a nutraceutical that I helped found a company called Functional Nutriments, that makes a nutraceutical called Apocaps that we've been giving and used by veterinarians all over the world, and feeding the right diet and doing exercises even like meditation and things that improve the quality of life. And so Kanga has been has been doing really well, up until this point, you know, she's, she's still doing well, but she's, you know, unfortunately, we all get older and things happen. But she just had a beautiful walk this morning, and she's enjoying her food and, and a lot more cheat days as well. Things that are that make life worth living for a dog. That's great. Well, you have a Show. You're the host of Dog Cancer Answers on the Dog Podcast Network. So you are speaking to scientists and veterinarians that are on the front lines. What do you see as the future of cancer treatment? The Future of Canine Cancer Treatments Wow, that is a good one. Yeah, that Show has been on the air since 2009. So it is a really old podcast. It's a very niche podcast. Most shows like yours are like general interest. But this is a very nice one of the shows on DPN, which is extremely niche, which is like, hey, it's just all about cancer. And I tell people, you know, it's one of the things I'm sorry, you have to listen to this show, because you're probably listening to it because you have a dog with cancer, but it's super helpful. So the scientists, the veterinarians, we talk to are from all spaces on the veterinary community from super holistic, people who are using, you know, Chinese herbs and acupuncture to cutting edge on the other side that may be a little pushy. And like, we just did a show recently with a veterinarian who uses an approach that basically does full body irradiation of a dog. And they give the dog so much radiation that they have to do a bunch of things, basically, because it'll kill the certain blood cells, that they have to do a whole bunch of things. But it does actually show an objective response relative to other treatment options to preserve every last possible day that a dog could live on this planet. So we look at all those different approaches. And we answer questions from our audience about specific questions that they have for their own dog's journey. But in terms of like where I see the future of dog cancer, the thing that I think is most exciting is genomics. Looking at the dogs. It's the same thing with human medicine, looking at cancer through the genome and seeing how one might approach a cancer diagnosis and a treatment plan based specifically on your dog's DNA and genes. That's, that's the future. That's fascinating. Well, and I also like hearing, I think it was back in 2017, that the National Cancer Institute gave out $11.5 million in grants to six veterinary schools to study immunotherapy treatments. And I love that approach, because it's, you know, you're just mentioning the vet the talked about whole body treatment radiation. And this is more targeted to the unhealthy cells, which I kind of think would be a little bit better. So I think that's really cool, that we're thinking outside the box. And there are other modalities that are being used. Because we have to remember you guys that dogs get cancer at about the same rate that humans do. So any studies in Veterinary Cancer Research benefits both of us, animals and our dogs. That is so critical. I think that that's one of the things that this is kind of a fad subject in general. But what gives me so much solace, Krista is that what is being done in dog camps, because dogs and humans not only get it at the same frequency, but they get the same types of cancer, and they respond pretty much the same way to different treatment. So a lot of things are tested in dogs that later can be applicable to people. And then also things are being done in people that are now being used in dogs. It's this concept of one medicine. I don't know if you've, if you've touched on that in and of your shows. But one medicine is really helpful one health because it's called One Health, One Medicine, where basically, veterinarians and human physicians and researchers are all looking at the same health issues, and looking for commonalities, but we have so much to learn about treating human cancer by looking at dog cancer and vice versa. That is a great point. And I don't think a lot of people realize I never realized before I got into this industry, that dogs share approximately 85% of the same DNA as humans. So it does make sense. I didn't know the number, but yeah, we’re so similar. Yeah, it's crazy. So we do need to work together with human Doc's, and veterinarians to figure this all out and make everybody better. So I'm on the same page as you. That is exciting. So we took a pretty sad subject, and put an up spin on it. So thank you, James. That's awesome. You're welcome. It's worth you know, people. If you have a dog with cancer, it's a really good resource, Dog Cancer Answers. Check it out, everybody. All right. Well, we are going to use our last segment here. This sounds really fun. James is going to talk to us about the difference of dog lovers versus dog owners. So you say most of us aren't crazy. So tell us more, James. Are You a Dog Lover or a Dog Owner? Well, I love this. I love this topic. So when I started Dog Podcast Network, we needed a way to kind of figure out who is our audience because we have podcasts for dog lovers. But who would who is our true audience? Is it just people who own dogs or the people who love dogs. And then people would ask you, well, what's the difference? And I said, ah, there are three things. There's a litmus test. So the first question is, where does your dog sleep? So, dog lovers will say, Oh, they sleep in my bed or they sleep in my bedroom. If that's the answer, we'll put a check in the column for dog lover. And if they say outdoors and they sleep, and I don't know, they sleep, you know, in the kitchen, that's the dog owner. The second question is, what do you feed your dog? And if they say I go to Walmart, and I buy the cheapest kibble. Probably dog owner, or somebody says, I cook for my dog and I do this measurement or I feed raw. I know you I know you like raw. And I do. So there are so many different if anyone is basically thinking a lot about their dog's food, whether they cook for him or they provide raw or they shop at the shi shi store. So whatever you're doing, then you're we'll put that in the dog lover column. And then the third question I ask is, How would you handle this scenario? You wake up one morning, and you're feeling sick. And your dog’s also feeling sick. Who is more likely to go to the doctor or veterinarian? You or your dog? And if you say, well, it would be I take my dog to the vet. First. No doubt about it, my dog always goes to the vet, then you're definitely a dog lover. So those are the three tests that I use to quickly find out if someone's a dog lover or a dog owner. Well, I guess we've set it straight here, everybody, I am a dog lover through and through, which I think most of us are. I think you are and pretty much anyone who's listening to the shows like this definitely fits in the dog lover category. And we're special. We're a breed apart as I like to joke. Well, if there's so many dog lovers, James, why does legislation takes so long to figure out that dogs are sentient beings, that they're not a piece of furniture legally? Why are we lagging behind? I just I don't get it, you know, States are finding… And it's actually countries that are realizing it. But here, not so much. You know, you get a divorce. The dog is property. Property and also like for malpractice, veterinarian malpractice, the value of a dog. Yes. Yeah. Is we in the United States are behind the rest of the world in a number of things that are that are news headlines these days. And that that is just one of them. Yeah, it is. It's sad and unfortunate. And I'm sure all of your listeners will appreciate the fact that dogs are should definitely be accorded a certain number of rights that that we consider our inalienable rights. Maybe not as much food as they want as many walks as they would demand. We should at least try and we shouldn't think of them as property. Right. I agree. Well, as we wrap up, James, the Dog Podcast Network, tell us when that came about, and what shows we can enjoy on there. The Dog Podcast Network Well, so that started as a vision in 2019. And I planned it and I said we are going to launch in 2020. And then this little weird thing happened, like a global pandemic. So we did launch the company started hiring people in 2020, we launched our shows in 2021, of course, Dog Cancer Answers which I had been doing in the network. And so we have a bunch of shows that are really high production value. And people say they're like NPR sounding, BBC sounding shows that are focused on dog lovers. Our flagship show, which I'm most proud of, is a show called Dog Edition. And that one I co host. I have a we have a wonderful, wonderful co host who just joined me. And it is designed it we call it the world's first podcast designed to listen to while you walk your dog. It is a magazine style formatted show that right now comes out weekly, we hope someday maybe to come out five times a week, because you should walk your dog, at least that many times, like 20 minutes long. As 20 minutes long is we tell great stories that we consider dog adjacent things that you won't hear on most any other show. And we do we have a team of correspondents and reporters all over the world. So we have really good journalists who tell the stories and we have good sound and good production value. And we work really hard to make this sound like you know, like all things considered for dog lovers. And we’ve won some awards, and we're really excited and be competitive dog edition.com. And then we have other shows and we're always looking for more people and we're constantly hiring. My ambition is that by the end of this year, to have 20 different shows on DPN. Wow, that would be fantastic. You can never talk enough about dogs. You can go on and on. And people love them. So I think that is great. So again, James, where can everybody find out more information about you and the Dog Podcast Network? Dogpodcastnetwork.com. And there is a tab somewhere on there. To find out more about me. You can find me on all the socials. I'm James Jacobson, on Twitter and Facebook and all those places. And I'd love to talk to other dog lovers and now we know what dog lovers are. Social Media Tags        Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dogpodcastnetwork/?hl=en          Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DogPodcastNetwork/          LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/dogpodcastnetwork/ Yes, thanks to you. It's official. Well, I will have all of James's contact information on social media and the website all in the show notes. So James, I I hope that you get to the 20 shows by the end of the year. Because again, we can't talk enough about our dogs for sure. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. It was so much fun. I really enjoyed it. Thanks again to our friends at System Saver for sponsoring this month’s episodes .  Check out this fantastic all-natural formula by going to http://caninesystemsaver.com/ and be sure to use the code WOL10 for 10% off! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Hello everyone this is Krista with Episode #158 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Well, it has been confirmed… dogs do have a sense of time, and they do miss us when we leave. You might have already heard about the circadian rhythm, which is our internal biological clock, if you will, that helps us to know when to wake up, when to go to sleep and when to eat. Well, it exists in our dogs as well. And our dogs have a general perception of time as daylight turns to dark, but maybe you knew that already knew that. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Lesley Nase, is the Creator and CEO of ‘Intuitive Animal Healing’. The host of ‘Books, Yarns & Tails’ on Win Win Women TV, Apple TV, Amazon Fire and Roku. From a very young age, she knew she was destined to work with animals. For more than 30 years, pet people have hired her when conventional healing methods failed to answer their questions. Welcome dog lovers to another fascinating episode of the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And after first meeting Lesley Nase, I knew that she had to be on the Show. So welcome, Lesley! Could you please introduce yourself and share why are you so passionate about healing energies, especially when it comes to our dogs? Oh, you were so kind of to say that we hit it off because I felt that as well. I love listening to your podcast. So I appreciate that. So I'm Lesley Nase, Creator and CEO of Intuitive Animal Healing. And I'm the host of Books, Yarns & Tails’ on Win Win Women TV. It is also on Apple TV, Amazon Fire and Roku. But my career always started in nature. I grew up on a family campground in the state of Vermont. So I was always surrounded by animals at a very young age. And I think I'm one of those kids who just bugged my, you know, Mom and Dad about a dog, a dog. And I already had a cat. We already had bunnies. We had other animals that surrounded us, but I really wanted the dog. And it did finally come, the dog came a couple of times, but dogs teach us so much about our lives. And they reflect bak to who we are. And as you said, I do healing work as the intuitive animal healing and my gift and my passion has allowed me to help hundreds of dogs as well as cats and horses but dogs in particular. And to help those people who share their lives with their dogs discover their own innate healing ability and to help them deepen their relationship to their dogs. And I just so enjoy helping to restore imbalances and giving them optimum health naturally and holistically as I guide them through insight and wisdom as an intuitive healer. That is great. Well, Lesley, I know that we can all agree that we are living in an insane, crazy, challenging world right now. And I think we're in a time where nothing makes sense. And it's great to know that more and more of us are seeking out more natural and holistic healthy ways to bring our lives into balance, like you mentioned, and of course more balance and awareness with our dogs. So I'm so excited that you're going to be chatting with us about the law of pet action, human versus dog mindset. So let's start unpacking this. Can you tell us what exactly does the law of pet action mean? You know, over the especially the over the last four or five years here and into the pandemic when we saw so many people adopting the you know, a dog to share their lives and to help them. What I was seeing about the relationship between people and their pets was that their pets were really reflecting back to them. What was going on in their life. And that went right down to the point of anxiety. If your pet if your dog especially is anxious, look to yourself. Find out what's happening, because they're in Quantum Physics, there's something called mirror imaging. And there are these little neurons in our brains and our dog's brain. And we all know how empathetic dogs are. They just give us those great big looks that melt our heart. And they also look at us to help heal us. And so they try to take on what's happening within your body, for their body. So if you're anxious yourself, if you are having a hard time with anxiety, your pet is probably reflecting that. If you have some disease within your body, your pet can often I'm finding, they have a very similar disease in their bodies, as well. And everybody seems to be out of balance. And the easiest way sometimes to get a real handle on this is that we go unconscious in our lives, you know, we get up in the morning, and we do our morning routine, we get out of bed, we brush our teeth, we may get dressed with the same leg into you know, the pants or whatever, and go downstairs, and our dogs are right there. They know exactly what we're going to do when we're going to do it. And so do we, but we don't think about it. And that happens in the habit that happens to us. So we might be doing, trying to I knew I had one example of a client that I had recently who kept saying that, you know, I'm, every time I try and go out the door, my dog starts acting up. And I asked, where are you going out the door? Well, I'm going to work. And so this is different. Yes, she would say, because I have been working from home during the COVID outbreak. And now I have to go into work where I'm going to see all these people. And I don't know what's happening. And her anxiety level kept going up and up and up, just about going out the door. What we don't realize is that our anxiety, our thoughts get repeated over and over again, and they start before you go out the door. And once she understood that unconsciously what she was doing and projecting outward to her dog made a difference. She was able to then slowly back off, that behavior. And then we could work on regaining balance and holistically thinking of how she would venture and try this again. So that is the law of pet action. The actions of our pets really reflect back. And they know more about us than we want to let on. You just have to listen. Yeah, definitely. Well, Lesley, what exactly is intuitive animal healing? And how does it work? Well, we all have a sense of intuition. We were all born with that natural ability. But many of us through the years kind of go, oh, well, you know, I have to believe what is happening outside of me. So and it's not a bad thing. It's just that it's how we grow up and in this society. And so as a child, we start believing what our parents are saying, because they're trying to keep us safe. And they're our parents. And then as you grow older and older, you get your teachers and then where do you get your news? And where do you get your information from your friends and your peers. And you stop believing that spark that’s within you that has that intuitive knowing. That time when the goosebumps kind of rise up. Or many people feel the shiver down their their back when they hear something and they know it or they know an answer before the question’s even asked. There is that sense of intuition in the work that I do, because I pay attention. And I really am aware of my surroundings, especially when I'm working with someone. I'm aware of the person I'm talking to, but I'm aware of their dog. And when I'm working with a dog, all I need is their photograph and their name. And I often ask if they’re spayed or neutered only because it's an it you know, easier than using a pronoun. From there, I get impressions from the animal. It's like watching a little movie in my mind as I see things and I feel it within my body. And sometimes I even hear it or smell it. So that’s the intuitive, knowing part. And there are sometimes owners just absolutely know when they look at their dog and look at the dog's face, they're like, I knew something was wrong, I just couldn't pinpoint it. I took them to the vet, and the vet couldn't pinpoint it, they couldn't tell me exactly what to do, they would say, well, there's nothing we can do, or we'll try this. And it was usually medication, an owner will go, it didn’t feel right. It's that gut feeling that something else was out there for them. And so we all have that ability to develop our own intuition, and our own ability to help heal our dog, our environment, and our other loved ones. Wow, that's cool. Lesley, what is the difference between an animal communicator and a pet psychic? Are they the same thing? Yeah, there, there isn't a whole lot of difference. You know, words are so funny because we learn the meaning of a word. And yet, it has different meanings in different ways throughout the world. So basically, when you're learning to communicate to an animal, you are using your psychic abilities in which to do that. And they can be very latent. You know, I teach about the Clairs as I like to call them. Sometimes people have Clairaudience. Clairsentience, Clairvision, the clair senses and all of these are part of the psychic tools that you can use in your abilities. So we all have different ways of accessing. And the hardest thing for most people is they're so visual in this world, that they'll be like, I don't see anything. Well, okay. But what do you mean by you don't see anything? Is it there or not? Is it black? Do you feel anything? Then you start digger deeper. Have you smelled anything? Stop a moment. Can you hear anything? And people start to discover that, oh, there is something in there. And that’s just your own skill ability. Well, I think this is a perfect time to take a quick sponsor break. And then we are going to get into this and I know that you said we all have our own innate abilities in this healing work. So I really want to find out more about that. So Lesley, hold tight, we will be right back. A special thanks to the team at Tickless USA for being our monthly sponsor. I am so thrilled to share this great company and their products with all of you who want to prevent ticks and fleas without the use of toxic chemicals. That's right, no more harmful chemicals need to be applied to your dog. Tickless devices are ultrasonic, flea and tick repellers that emit a series of ultrasonic pulses that humans, pets and wildlife cannot hear. These outstanding patented products are the number one selling chemical free repellents in Europe that are proven safe in multiple studies. They offer various versions to be worn on the collar, and they also have units for the home. They're not only for pets, but they have tick repellents for people as well. You can't go wrong with these environmentally friendly chemical and fragrance free ultrasonic devices, making them perfectly safe to use for your entire family. Order your Tickless device today by going to TicklessUSA.com and use the discount code WAGOUTLOUD That's all one word with no spaces to receive 15% off of your order. We're back with Lesley and she is talking about intuition and the law of pet action with our dogs. This is just fascinating. So Lesley, I have had other animal communicators on the Show before. So what makes your practice different? That's a great question. I think when I was talking before about what I've seen over the years, is that I what I've realized is that when most people started to come to me more than 30 years ago to do a session either a communication or a healing session with them or because I am a shamanic practitioner using those shamanic techniques as well, they were looking for me to give them all the answers. And yet, when you realize that the relationship and the bond that you have with your dog is so close, and that if I teach people how they can, you know, discern their own relationship and come up with more of their own ideas and feel empowered by that, that's more long lasting than me just telling you, well, this is what your dog said, and you can understand this they do, they certainly understand, you know, this is why they're not eating that food or something else. But when you give somebody the tools to really do it themselves, and whether you, you know, you have to do it on a daily basis, you have to practice you have to, it's got to be part of your life, that’s just the deal with that, then you're not always looking outside of yourself for the answers, you can start with yourself. And we're going to do an exercise here shortly. So I'm excited to do that. You mentioned shamanic healing techniques that you use, but you also use the science of quantum energy. Can you tell us more about that? I love quantum energy. And it has really taken hold in the scientific realm, and the spiritual realm, to bring them both together. I believe in the seen and the unseen in this world, and quantum physics understands the energy that entangles us, which is a theory with our environments. And that means the inside of your house, to the outside of where you live, and everybody in between. And it also gives those biology factors within us, especially when I go deeper with someone about their unconscious and conscious habits, and how to change those. They get to understand the workings of their own self. And that's where your success comes in. That's when you get the change. And just a quick one on that. I had an agility trainer with her dog who did beautiful during practice, but during competition did terrible. And when I went to train to look at what the dog was doing. But I also train the person, you know, if you've ever been to a dog trainer, they tell you that whatever your feelings go right down that leash, and it's more of the person that you need to train than the dog itself. And when she understood what her behaviors were when I took her through a visualization, and she went, Oh my God, I didn't realize what how nervous I was. And what was happening on. I gave her the skills to work with her dog, real quick exercise, just before each trial that she did. And the difference was amazing. They were a team. And what do you say? I mean, some people listening might say, Oh, this is woowoo. They're skeptical. What do you say to the skeptics out there? You know, I love it. That term woowoo has been around for so long. That's why I so enjoy quantum physics, because it begins to open up your mind to say, well, maybe there's something to the spiritual side to that side, that's not there. I say use your imagination. Tap into that, you know, all of us have this logical mind that wants to play with us and say, Oh, my gosh, I just made this up. This can't be real. And yet, when you actually use some of what you imagine, or you understand, it changes, like a ripple effect in your life. It doesn't happen overnight. Except there are some times that there can be a big change that happens because you gain for understanding. But give it a try. You know and and if you give it a try and practice it and believe that you can do that. We are more powerful as human beings than we ever thought we were. True. And there's such a small percentage of our brain power that we even use. We don't even utilize our skills that we have. I know. Well, let's do this. I am excited. You have an exercise for us on how to develop our intuition between us and our dog. So I'm ready for you to take the leash and walk us through it. Okay, so this is called directive intuition. And this exercise has to do with relationships. Now, in this exercise, you want to think real quick, whatever comes to you, is really what it's going to be about. Don't judge don't think you know, and if nothing comes visually, then think of the sensation that you might be feeling. Because our thoughts and our feelings are connected. So those are the kind of ground rules for this. Take a couple of deep breaths. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to have you think of your dog, as you close your eyes, and you're thinking of your dog and your relationship. And then you're going to think of a blanket. And I'll lead you through that, as we start now. So to take a moment to close your eyes, and get yourself a little centered. And to do that, we're going to breathe in through our nose and out through our mouth. Slowly breathe in. And exhale. We're gonna take two more of these breaths, I want you to breathe in all the positive energy that's around you. And exhale, any of the negative energy that you may be holding on to coming into the here and now. And on this last breath, when you breathe in, slowly and deeply, and you feel your body relaxing, even more, and you slowly let out the exhale, you've just signaled to your body, that you're safe. That everything's fine, right where you're at. Now, in your mind's eye, I want you to think about your dog, one dog in front of you. Once you've got that, think of a blanket. The blanket is, is it around both of you? Or around one of you? Is it only covering around your shoulders? And part of your dog? Or is it covering all of you, and all of your dog? Does it have color? One color, two colors? Is it smooth and kind of no wrinkles? Or is it rough? And torn and old? Or is it brand new, and still needs to be kind of broken in? Open your eyes. Did you get any impressions from that? I did. Hopefully our listeners did. Because listeners are supposed to be doing this with us. I go real quick and real fast, because it truly is the impressions that you get. There are different meanings to different colors. Some people get one solid color, others get two colors. Now the blanket may look old, or it may look brand new, you know, does it mean that if it's brand new is a brand new relationship with your dog? If it's an old one, does it mean that you've had a long term relationship with the dog. All of these impressions are part of your imagination, and your intuition that gives you feedback. And there are others that we do that build upon that relationship leading to a meditation that's a real Heart to Heart Meditation. Where that's a deeper connection. But I start first with a quick thing and developing that intuition. So that when you get to the deeper part, you have opened up your awareness, your perception is broader. And you can bring in deeper understanding. And that helps you to understand that law of pet action. That is cool. And does this work just with dogs that are here presently, or maybe dogs that have passed on? So here's the thing. The caveat, I should say. If you're doing this on your own, that I probably should say yes to all of the above. But the caveat is we are tied up emotionally with those who share our lives. Our pets have our hearts and when they have our heart and it's whether I'm doing a reading… in the readings such that I do I I often will do a reading with tarot or oracle cards just because I can get kind of deeper meaning when a person isn't coming forth with everything they want to say yet because emotionally they want to, we want to please somebody just like a dog, we want to give the right answers. And sometimes we don't want to go deep. But we have emotional attachment. And some of the work that I do is end of life support as a death doula and a psychic medium to help people with those times. So our emotions are tied up with that. And if you do a directed intuition on your own, your emotion’s going to be like, I want them to come, I want them to come. Oh, please, please, please. That's a really hard one to do with ourselves. Yet, having said that, there are signs of those dogs who have passed on, who show up in our lives in many different ways. And they're always trying to give you that messages to say, I'm still here. I'm still part of your life. I didn't really leave you. And the more we try to work on our own intuition, you mentioned, you know, signs, the feel of the blanket the is it over just the dog? Or is it both of us? Is it new? What color is it? How do we unpack what we saw in our minds? How do we understand what all of those that we did see what it symbolizes? Well, let's, let's think about that. I don't know if you want to use what you saw as an example. Sure. Okay. So tell me what you experienced. I saw the blanket just around Winston. It was like a really soft velour, like a dusty blue. Okay. And where was Winston sitting? Right in front of you like on your lap, or was Winston a little separate? To the side of me on the carpet. Okay. So when we can ask deeper questions, then we go a little bit deeper. So Winston was next to you, where he probably always is on the same side. And that's loyalty. And the color blue is a lot about safety, as well. And, you know, the velour is rich. And you know, it's plush and luscious. And so that shows you that you've got this loyal companion who's right next to you, and covered in this blue color of blue. It's a like an aura is what I would say. Bubble, bubble of blue, next to you. And, and so that's a real rich relationship you and Winston have. So anything else that you would add to that? What came up for me… So I think if people want to unpack this, again, Lesley can teach you how to do this on your own. And I'm sure that's one of the best services that you offer to let us use our own intuitive healing. So Lesley, as we are wrapping up here, you have an offer. For our listeners, there's a free resource. Do you want to tell them more about this Heart to Heart Meditation? FREE OFFER Yeah, I had, you know, sometimes your mind goes. What offer did I put out there? I love the heart to heart meditation. And I really have developed that for people who are trying to develop more between themselves and their dogs. And I, I must say, again, that I found that some people go oh, meditation, I don't want to sit for that long and do that. But it's not very long. It's like 10-15 minutes. And it is a great way to jump in and get your feet wet and, and just explore it on your own through the meditation. But there's also times that people will say, Well, you know, I didn't quite understand this. So give it a try, you can always email me, I would love to tell you more and give you a couple of quick tips. And just so you can get your feet wet and see what it's all about. That's really what the Heart to Heart Meditation is about. And can we find that just on your website? It should be on my website these days. I don't trust websites so if you don't find it there you really want it. Please just email me and that will be on the website. And just, you know, reference that you heard me right here on on this podcast, Wag Out Loud and, you know, I'll gladly send it to anybody who who doesn't or couldn't download it or something. https://intuitiveanimalhealing.net/ Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/lesleynase/          Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Intuitive-Animal-Healing-Animal-Communication-Healing-for-Pets-People-103761697742457          LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-nase-819b4454 Well, thank you Lesley. So you can find out more about Lesley and her practice, which is Intuitive Animal Healing. And that is at https://intuitiveanimalhealing.net/ And Lesley works nationally and internationally by phone or internet. So I would really encourage people to reach out to her. She has such a powerful message and understands the true bond between us and our dogs and what we can achieve. So Lesley, I just want to thank you so much for being here. Do you have any parting words for us? It was my honor and pleasure. And I just, you know, I do love dogs. I have three. I walked them before this, so they'd be quiet. They all they were great. They were great. Thank you so much for having me on. I so appreciate that. Thank you, Lesley. And thanks for everybody tuning in. Go practice this intuition and develop a closer emotional connection with your dog. Thanks, Lesley! Thank you! Thanks again to our friends at Tickless USA for sponsoring this month's episodes, and for making such incredible products. Order your Tickless device today by going to TicklessUSA.com And don't forget that code WAGOUTLOUD, no spaces gets you 15% off. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

Well hello. This is Krista with Episode #157 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast and I just wanted to remind you that you should probably check out all of the amazing trusted brands that I do highly recommend. And these are products that I have tried on my dog Winston and I have tried a lot of them. But these are the ones that I know, like and trust. And these products will also help your dog to thrive. So go to wagoutloud.com and check out the Trusted Brands section. And you'll notice that most of them have discounts, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? Speaking of your dog, your dog is pretty smart, right? Well, how smart is your dog compared to you? Well, according to research by animal psychologists, dogs can understand up to 250 words, they can also count to five, and they're able to do basic calculations. So we already knew that our dogs are smart. But did you know that they have the intelligence of a two year old? Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Ádám Bacsó is the COO of an internationally growing company ProtectOne America Inc., and he's been involved in the development of tick protection for more than 4 years. His alma mater is Budapest Business School in Hungary, and later he finished his Tropical Parasitology studies at Duke University in the US. Nowadays innovation and environmentally friendly solutions are on his radar. Hi there dog lovers. Thanks so much for tuning in and for wanting to do better for your dog. Today, I have the privilege of chatting with Ádám Bacsó about natural flea and tick prevention. And I promise you will definitely want to stick around for this one. Adam, I want to thank you so much for being with us today. I would love for you to introduce yourself and share why are you so passionate about natural flea and tick prevention. Thank you for being here. It's awesome to be your guest. I’ve been related to tick prevention for four years now. And we see that with the climate change, they're more ticks than ever before. And in just the last few years, well the last 20 years, the number of ticks have been multiplying. So this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem for for the community. So we must have a solution against them. I got into this industry a couple of years ago. I had no idea about it, like five years ago, but the more I dig into it, the bigger the problem seems. The good thing is that we can do some things against it. Well, Adam, I read your bio, I mean, you finished your tropical parasitology studies at Duke University. I never knew there was such a thing. What's involved with that type of degree or program? Oh my God, you don’t want to know that. Yeah, I learned so much about different kinds of diseases, which are related to ticks, fleas, flies, mosquitoes. It's it's been crazy. And honestly, I'm really glad that I finished it. I learned a lot of nasty things. We learned a lot. It mainly covered ticks and fleas, which were my side. And I learned that just in the USA, there are more than 800 different species of ticks. So it's crazy. And I never heard about it before. But but we should be alerted because well, these modern 800 species are becoming more and more each year. So so it's it's actually a really, really interesting topic to learn about. They're there even even if you don't know about them. Well, my skin is already starting to crawl just thinking about it. But let's dive into it. We know that fleas and ticks are obviously a nuisance and when it comes to our dogs, we have to know, you know you've told me before we're always worried about flea and tick prevention for our dogs but we have to be aware for ourselves as well because we can be hosts, just like our dogs can, you know, they're gross, they're annoying, but they really are potentially harmful to our health. Our health and our dog's health. So, when we think of conventional treatments, you know what comes to mind, I see the poison symbol in my head. You know, these are toxic chemicals, we're trying to kill off the fleas and ticks. And we really have to realize the toxicity of the chemicals used in the chews, the collars, the shampoos, the sprays. So let's get into that a little bit. What are we doing to our dogs when we're giving him these products with toxic chemicals? How Chemical Treatments Work First, I just want to start with a statement. I am not fully against any chemicals. The main thing is tick prevention. So to prevent the diseases in the best ways we can. And one of the most well known option is to kill the ticks and fleas, just as you mentioned. Generally, many people use chemicals, spot ons, collars for their dogs to actually kill the ticks. And just talking in general, these chemicals work in a way where the tick has to bite first, and then it dies. So basically, these solutions, the tick bites first, and there are some diseases that can be spread just by the tick bite itself. So it doesn't have to go through the whole blood system, just like Lyme disease, for example, the tick has to bite. I believe that the main thing, the best thing that that we can do is to prevent the tick and flea bite itself. Because then we can also prevent the disease itself as well. I agree. And we have to remember that a lot of these drugs work systematically, which means that they're absorbed into the entire blood system of our dog. So it's affecting their entire body. You know, we think maybe the collar or the spot on treatment is only in one area of their body. But But these chemicals go, yeah, the entire body. So for instance, like fleas will feast on your dog's blood as as will ticks. And they eat the chemicals, they become paralyzed they die. And why don't we start with why do fleas prefer dogs as hosts? The first thing that comes to mind is that dogs have great fur. So it's, it's an amazing thing to hide there. And it's just much easier for them to grow on dogs, and also in dog beds, because if I would just spot some fleas in my bed I would just get rid of it there as soon as possible. But thank God I don't so… Dogs are generally going through bushes. They like being outside. And so they can also get ticks and fleas easier than us because we are just not rolling, but we people we are not rolling in grass. But dogs do. They can be affected with flea or tick borne diseases much easier than us. Also, I’d just like to go back a little bit about the chews that can be good for dogs. And just as I mentioned, many people use it and this is one of the most general thing to do against ticks. And normally there's just enough poison to kill the tick or flea but not enough to kill the dog itself. So it's really important if somebody is using chemical treatment against ticks and fleas, it's really important to choose the chew for the right size of dogs because unfortunately we hear about that many dogs die because of these chemicals and sometimes pet parents buy the wrong product for their pet. So these chemicals are calculated to have the exact amount of of poison in themselves. And let's say we have a small dog but we buy the tick and flea prevention for a large sized dog. It can also kill the small pets and that would be really unfortunate. So if somebody's going for these chemical treatments, then it's it's really important to consult with the veterinarian, for example, and choose which was the right the right product, I just want to highlight it first, because it's really important. We want to have as many pets around as possible… as as many healthy pets as possible. Yeah, I'm so glad you pointed that out. Because you're right. I know that there's a lot of reports that keep growing that from these other treatments that have chemicals in them, that dogs have neurological reactions, tremors, seizures, it can change their behavior, liver damage, GI illness. So to your point, we really have to pay attention to the products that we are administering to our dogs. So I like that you pointed that out. So let's go back to fleas. Fleas, if you see one, most likely there are many more correct? Yes, absolutely correct. And what is the life cycle? The whole, you know, they hop on your dog, how long do they live for? How long do they feed on your dog's blood and actually breed or lay eggs? Life Cylce of a Flea It can actually take a couple of weeks to go from larvae to an actual flea. And, for example, if you have fleas on your dogs, and you, you just give them a bath and get rid of the fleas on your dog, then you should also wash your dog's bed and also clean the places where your dog has been because there can be many larvaes around your home and around your dog's place. So it's really important to not just to get rid of the the actual fleas that you can see at that time. But just as you mentioned, there are many more just around the house, and just around your your dog's bed. So if you find fleas, then it's important to clear the whole area where your dog has been recently, because most of the fleas are there. And you can only get rid of them if you clean the whole area. Because we hear many, many people saying that they got rid of the fleas on their dog, they gave them the bath, but the fleas came back. The actual thing is that the fleas didn't come back. They were there. They were already there. They were just born after that. Right. And is it true that fleas are the most common cause of skin disease in dogs because when I think about flea bites, I know that a lot of dogs have a bad reaction that they are actually allergic to is it the saliva in the flea that they're reacting to? Yes, they're just as I mentioned, there are many species of fleas, and they can spread some diseases, just by their saliva. And also, if your dog is just scratching itself, then that's also a problem because they can just get get rid of the fur really easily as well. So all in all flea prevention is a really important thing nowadays. And you should do, for example, the regular cleaning as well and also use some, if you can, then use some natural products against them. So just going back to the prevention part is just much better to do prevention, than curing an actual disease. Okay. All right, let's go on to ticks. So ticks are a totally different animal than fleas. How do ticks get on dogs? And on us? And what is the life cycle of a tick? Life Cycle of a Tick Just as we talked about it earlier, there are more and more ticks, ticks around. So a couple of years ago, we could have just said that they are mostly in forests. When we go for a hike with our dogs and with our family, but nowadays they can be found in city parks as well. So this whole climate change is actually helping them. They've been here before us and some scientists say that they will be here after us. So it's, it's a bit scary to think about. There are more than 800 species of ticks so as they can spread some different diseases, some of the most well known for dogs is Rocky Mountain Fever, Babesiosis and also Lyme can be dangerous for dogs. That's mostly for people. But dogs can be affected with Lyme as well. Generally, when we go, or when we think about tick prevention or tick borne diseases, then we normally think about dogs mostly. But the thing is, when, when our dog is outside, then many times we are around them, we like playing with each other. And many people only think about preventing tick bites for their dogs. But the thing is that if we use great tick prevention for dogs, then that can also go for us. And the thing is that Lyme is much worse for people and we can get affected by the ticks that don't, that don't affect our dogs. So we have to think about the prevention for ourselves as well. So for example, just thinking about Lyme in the US, there are almost half a million people diagnosed with Lyme each year. And that's a lot. So we we never want to be included in this study. Lyme is not as big as a problem for dogs, but still, and there are between 20 to 30,000 dogs affected by Lyme each year. And these are the officially diagnosed dogs. But the thing is that not all the time can these Lyme diseases be diagnosed for dogs. So the thing is that there are unfortunately, many misdiagnosed dogs who who are not diagnosed having Lyme disease or other tick borne diseases, because let's say that there's a tick biting your dog but then it falls off and when the actual symptoms come to our dogs, then the tick is not around anymore. So the symptoms can come three or six months after the bite itself. So it's really important to do tick prevention all the time. It used to be only from March to September the season for ticks and fleas. Now with the mild winters. The thing is that they can be a problem for the whole year. Also, I’ll share a really interesting study about ticks a bit later. Adam… Yeah, can I stop you there? We're just going to take a quick commercial break and Adam is going to share with us a wonderful resolution for fleas and ticks in a natural way. So stay tuned, everybody, we'll be right back. A special thanks to the team at Tickless USA for being our monthly sponsor. I am so thrilled to share this great company and their products with all of you who want to prevent ticks and fleas without the use of toxic chemicals. That's right, no more harmful chemicals need to be applied to your dog. Tickless devices are ultrasonic, flea and tick repellers that emit a series of ultrasonic pulses that humans, pets and wildlife cannot hear. These outstanding patented products are the number one selling chemical free repellents in Europe that are proven safe in multiple studies. They offer various versions to be worn on the collar, and they also have units for the home. They're not only for pets, but they have tick repellents for people as well. You can't go wrong with these environmentally friendly chemical and fragrance free ultrasonic devices, making them perfectly safe to use for your entire family. Order your Tickless device today by going to TicklessUSA.com and use the discount code WAGOUTLOUD That's all one word with no spaces to receive 15% off of your order. Hello, everyone. We are back. I can't wait to hear more about natural flea and tick prevention from Adam. Adam, you just mentioned with global warming and climate change that fleas and ticks are really here all year round. That we really have to be diligent about the prevention all year. Are there certain areas or climates that are more prevalent with fleas in ticks? Climate Change Yes, absolutely. So good weather is good for ticks. There was an experiment where there was a tick, they lowered the temperature. So the tick froze. And that's what normally happens. In the winter they continued this study. So after the tick froze, they higher the temperature, and the tick started walking again. It's crazy. So that's why I say that these mild winters are really good for ticks. Because it's really good for ticks, it's not naturally good for us. Because previously, the ticks could have just died during the wintertime. And we could get rid of lots of ticks. But now with these mild winters, in certain areas, well, in some areas, there are no winters at all. But still with with the mild winters, ticks can live during the wintertime as well. So that's why this is an all year round problem. And we have to think about prevention for the whole year as well. That makes sense. Well, there are things on the market that are natural that people are using, for instance, natural shampoos and sprays. But of course, those require frequent application. Another one is essential oils, which I've heard, there are good oils and bad oils, especially when it comes to our dogs. But I've read that the top reason for calls to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals ,Animal Poison Control Center was for tick product related concerns. And that was essential oils. So no matter what we're using as a treatment, we really have to know what we're doing do our research. And is it true that a healthy dog will attract fewer fleas and ticks than a dog who has a weakened immune system? It can be depending on many things in general, if their immune system is weaker than absolutely, the problem is much bigger for them. That makes sense. Okay, this is what we've all been waiting for. Adam is going to tell us about his product, which is Tickless and I just I love this product. So Adam, tell us about the science and the technology behind Tickless. What Makes Tickless Different Right. So first of all, we say that people should use the best treatment for themselves and for their dogs as well. We know and we are honest about it that nothing is 100%. Even some chemicals, just killing ticks is not a 100% solution. Natural oil is also not a 100% solution. And also Tickless has a great efficiency level. So we did studies about it, several ones. And the technology itself has been around for more than 20 years now. And we just put the whole science into the Tickless products. So the great thing is that we can have the efficiency level above 90%, which is actually really great. We can actually say that we have the same efficiency level as as the chemicals, but without using any chemicals. So the thing is that it's science based technology. And we use an efficient sound technology in our devices. So all of our devices work with the same methodology. There is just some function differences. And we have it for dogs. We have it for cats, horses, and also for people. And the great thing is that Tickless has zero chemicals in it. It's an absolutely natural product. And the great thing is that you can use it for yourself, you can use it for your dog and basically you can use it for everyone who you love. Yes, and these are ultrasonic devices. So tell us about how the frequency in these devices work against fleas and ticks. The devices themselves have a frequency level around 40 kilohertz. And it's too high for for people of course, because we generally hear only until 20 kilohertz and it's also too high for for most dogs and cats. There are some species that can hear until 45 kilohertz, but still the decibel level is another thing that said it's really important with our sound because it's so low in the device that it's absolutely harmless for all dogs or cats. We have studies about it. But I always say that the best study is just to have a device close to your dog's ear. And we know that they just wouldn't care about it. So just to have an idea about the decibel level, I’m sitting in an empty room right now. And if I'm not talking, the decibel level can be around 50 decibels. And I'm not speaking, nothing is on. So just being quiet itself is is around 50 decibels and Tickless works with around 25 decibels. So that's a really low level. And that's why it's absolutely safe for dogs and cats as well. And also for people. And how are these devices placed or worn? We have two different devices for dogs, and the one that we started selling 10 years ago. That's the Tickless Classic Pet. This is the still the best selling device in our portfolio. Because most of our customers are buying it. This is actually good for the whole season. So you should put it on your dog's collar or harness and it covers their whole body. There are different color options, but they're all the same on the inside. So it's really just a preference of yours which one you are using: the beige, orange or pink one, you can use your favorite color. It goes for all sizes of dogs. So one device is enough for at least six months. And it's on all the time. So your dog should wear the devices all the time, that's what we recommend. Or if your dog is wearing a harness only outside, then we recommend having a Tickless Home Device in your home. Because this way, you can also prevent ticks and fleas in your home. So that's the best thing that that we can offer. Also, there's another device for smaller dogs. There's the Tickless Mini, and that is good for smaller sized pets. So we have a small dog version and also cat version from it. And that was with the same technology. The main difference is that it sticks to the color. So that's why it's good for for smaller pets. And also it's a rechargeable device. Yes. And that's the one that I tested on my dog Winston and I forgot that it was even there it is so small. And you know, he wasn't bothered by it. And it works. You know, I've seen videos of fleas and ticks that are hearing the frequency and, and they it looks like they're having seizures, they're obviously affected by this frequency. It's just so cool. The Tickless Technology Ticks have a so called Haller's organ, so they actually have eyes, but they don't necessarily use it to see. They use their Haller's organ to sense everything around them. So for example, the co2 level in the air, also the temperature level… and Tickless devices actually disturb this Haller's organ. So once a tick is activated, then they get an overdose of information. And that's what's actually causing them to leave. So if you're using Tickless on your dog, and for example, they are going through a tick nest, then they could also get some ticks crawling on them. But they will leave eventually. So you can imagine it like they cannot feel anything around them. They just have a really annoying noise. And they just want to get rid of it. And they just want to get away from it. So for example, in one of the studies that we cover, 94% of the participants had no ticks at all, and 6% had less than before. And none of them had the same amount or more than before. So that we can actually say that we have the same efficiency as the best products on the market but without using any chemicals. And just so everybody knows, Tickless is the number one selling chemical free repellent in Europe, obviously with their studies that has been proven safe and effective. So you can always go to their website to check out the studies. And now you also are available now here in the United States which is awesome. So Adam and his team from Tickless USA are making an outstanding offer that you guys can try these devices. If you go to TicklessUSA.com and use the discount code wagoutloud to receive 15% off of your order. So that's no spaces “WAGOUTLOUD”, and you get 15% off of your order. And I urge you guys to try these amazing products. You will love them, your pets will love them. So one other thing before we sign off today, maintaining your yard is also really important, just as a line of prevention. Is that right, Adam? Yes, absolutely. So keep your grass mowed and remove leaves and clean up brush. Because that's where ticks and fleas love to live. And they'll just hop on and come into your home. So this is a great product. I want you guys to check it out again, that's TicklessUSA.com Instagram: @ticklessusa Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TicklessUSA.official LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/protectone-ltd Adam, do you have any parting words for us? Yeah, just just one more thing, if let's say somebody's not using Tickless already, but they find a tick on themselves or on their dogs, then it's really important to take it out as soon as possible. So checking yourself and your dog after a long walk is essential. And if there are any ticks found around, then you should always consult with your veterinarian or with your doctor to make sure that you're healthy. And you can use this with the special discount offer for yourself and for your dog to do your prevention part. Great advice. Well, Adam, thank you for being here. And thanks for all that you're doing with this amazing technology. We really appreciate you being here. Thank you. It's been great being here. Thanks again to our friends at Tickless USA for sponsoring this month's episodes, and for making such incredible products. Order your Tickless device today by going to TicklessUSA.com And don't forget that code WAGOUTLOUD, no spaces gets you 15% off.

Hello everyone! This is Krista with Episode #156 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. My dog Winston just turned 13 And over time I've noticed that his eyes are a bit cloudy and he sometimes hesitates when going downstairs. And in full sun, he squints. So I decided to take him to a canine ophthalmologist to get checked out. I just wanted to know if he has the start of cataracts. What I learned was that he actually has lenticular sclerosis, also known as nuclear sclerosis. And the bluish haze that I've seen is not a cataract, but a common normal part of aging. Who knew? Lenticular sclerosis is simply a hardening and thickening of the lens fibers. And with aging, the old fibers in the lens become compacted and create a cloudy appearance in the eye. So I was so relieved to hear that Winston is still able to see, maybe not just as in much detail as he did in his younger years. But fortunately, this is a harmless condition that requires no treatment. But cloudiness of the lens should always be evaluated by a professional to rule out conditions such as cataracts, or glaucoma. Did you already know about lenticular sclerosis? Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Since she was a little girl, Gail Green has always been fascinated with dogs.  She has done rescue work with major disaster response in a variety of places in the USA as well as individual rescue and placement for individual animals.  She founded an award-winning animal assured therapy program in the east Bay - still thriving today and is the Co-founder of the first designated dog park in the country. Gail also authored the book, “Dog Parking It!” which is available on Amazon. Throughout her amazing career, she earned a variety of effective and loving methods to train basic obedience and behavior problem solving ideas and has been fortunate enough to learn from several of the top trainers in the world. Gail’s philosophy has always focused on positive training methods and fear free work. Hello dog lovers! We have another learning opportunity in store as I chat with Gail Green. She's gonna tell us about her input as a trainer of 60 years. Kindness will get you everywhere. Gail, thanks so much for being with us today. You bet. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself and tell us about how you adopted the philosophy that you use when working with dogs. Yes, I've been training for about 60 years. I started I consider my career that started at six, because I was bitten by a dog across the face. And went home, not feeling scared or bad or whatever. But I couldn't understand what the behavior was. Why? What did I do to cause this behavior. And I started doing reading and started helping other trainers and got me where I am. I am the co founder of the first dog park in the country. And it is still actually going really well. I have written a book about dog parks called Dog Parking It. And it has reviews of 237 parks that I visited in 2008. With my dog, and it was it was an incredible experience. It taught me a lot about people and animals together. Well, you've done a lot. Yeah, I've been very lucky. I've had the motivation, you know, it's working with dogs is just part of who I am. And I found that out when I was six. That's amazing. And you're still going strong. I'm telling you, you know, I just I it's just part of me. I can't not do it. Well, Gail, you're all about kindness in training. And that's what we're going to talk about today. How does that differ from reward or positive reinforcement dog training? What is Kindness in Dog Training? It's very different. Kindness is not about reward. It's about a visceral presence, not keeping track of things not owing and being owed. Just being kind. The energy we put into kindness is paid off 1,000% In the small victories that we’re afforded when we're kind without expectations. So, dog training with kindness, I guess, are you saying that it's using motivation and encouragement as opposed to fear, punishment or reward? Right. The reward is absolutely needed. And we need to be able to communicate our pleasure with them and their success. And that can be through treats through, you know, getting on your knees and hugging him. I want my dog to feel like if I walk into the room, that something wonderful is going to happen. I don't want it to anticipate My response to that kind of thing, I want her, I want her to seek out the fun loving stuff. And not act because she thinks I am going to act a certain way or not. It has something to do for me about dominance and submission. Dominance, to me, is something that dogs do with each other. We don't speak the same language we don't. We act in behaviors in response to them. And in order for them to get the behaviors that we that they want. We expect the response in order to get that response, I want them to want to do it. I want them to see that doing this behavior, whether it's shaking hands, or you know, chasing down a burglar, I want the dog to feel like you know, they're doing it, right. And if they're not, that's my fault. I need to change my response and behavior. And with submission, a lot of times people think that submission is something where you have to be mean and in charge, I see a lot of people continuing to do the rollover, you know, they go over on their back, and you hold them there until they get it. But what they're getting is not necessarily that you're in charge, they're getting that you're being forceful and scary. That's why the behavior changes. I don't want my dog to change her behavior, because she's afraid. Well, Gail, you've been, as we mentioned, that you've been working with dogs for over 60 years. So how has your mindset changed since you started all of this? What’s Changed in 60 years with Dog Training? Yeah, I went with what was happening in training at the time, and that was mostly to obtain graduating to pressure collars, to the E collars, and all of it done about manipulating their behavior with our actions, and not not being kind in the process. But you know, for us, positive reinforcement was you choke the heck out of until they do what they want, what you want, and then use praise, instead of taking every step and talking through it, and being present with it being a support system almost. And when did that change, when during your career did positive reinforcement come in? I was working at different shelters, doing training and teaching classes and that sort of thing. And we were doing, you know, what normal people were doing which was with choke chains. And we had a trainer, who is well known around the country that Jean Donaldson came in and was our boss. And we were all kind of like, Oh, should we expect because he's one of those kindness trainers, you know. And we were all like, nervous about the whole thing, because we didn't want to not do it, right. But we didn't want to be forced to do it her way. And it showed the benefits of kindness that she showed the benefits of understanding what you're dealing with, to in order to get to the motivation that the dog might have. And I was like ecstatic. We started doing shaping of behaviors, we started doing the positive positive you know I’m coming in, but I'm not gonna make you do anything just coming in. And being and that has, that's influenced me so much. And, you know, we weren't, we weren't forced to change it, which was kind of interesting to me, because of that dominance thing. Was this person going to come in and be dominant and have us do it this way. And we were we were challenged. I think that was probably the biggest turning point is when I suddenly got my own Aha. About, you know, looking at the animal, looking at the body language, looking at the face, you know, getting the dog to be comfortable to sit and stare at you. So I'd say probably it was in the 90s that I started to, to make that change they call it the crossover, and just saw the benefits of it. Instead of you know, I mean, if I make a certain clicking sound in my house, she will come running. And it's because there's something there for her. And, you know, it could be a toy, it could be a treat, it could just be me. And I wanted her to get excited about doing what she was doing. Right. And she does. I mean, I have so many pictures I have of her tail is blurry. You know, she's, she's comfortable with all kinds of people. I have to say that the people that had her before me treated her really well. So she came out being confident and silly and happy and she's learned probably faster than any dog I’ve had. And Gail, I know that you mentioned back in the day, the choke and the shock collars, which unfortunately are still being used today. Those E collars are not any better, but really have to think it's not just those methods, but even yelling or jerking the leash. There are so many things that we do when we're training that affect our dogs negatively as well. So why don't all of these negative methods, why don't they work? Negative Training Methods Well, I'm not gonna say they don't work in getting the behavior that people want. They don't work, as indicated by, you know how trusting the dog is. And I saw one video of a guy working with a dog and the dog was just hangdog, the head was down, the tail was under, and the dog would just stop moving, because it's the safest place to be, and yet would get corrected by this collar. And, and, you know, they called the training session that I watched a success because the dog ended up dealing with it. But the dog wasn't even there. I mean, he was just acting on pure fear, and avoiding conflict. So it's really kind of amazing. You know, I mean, I've been told that the reason that I don't find it useful is because I don't know how to do it, right. And I don't know what's right or wrong about pushing a button. And so I've asked people I said, teach me what’s right with it. And there's a lot of negativity between force free trainers, and trainers who use the kind of aversive methods. It’s a them versus us kind of thing. And that's really too bad, because then nobody wins. So you're saying that dogs are, it's better for them to work for something than against it? Right. I want them running to me, not away from me. Well, I wanted to bring up a study that I found it was done in Portugal a couple of years ago. And it addressed the common question that if dogs can learn from both positive training methods, and those that are considered punishment, does the choice of method matter. And I guess the dogs who experienced punishment during this study, were more pessimistic than the dogs that did not get punished. And that makes a lot of sense. So I think this study supports the idea that dogs are harmed, even with the use of the less extreme methods that we talked about. And offers evidence that the use of punishment in training is really a problem for canine welfare, their entire being. A Fearful Dog And the, you know, being grounded or trustworthy, you know, if they have the opportunity to get away from whatever that behavior is, then they're going to do that. I do a lot of work with disaster response, then was down in the south right after Katrina, and watched some of these dogs. So many were, I mean, it wasn't necessarily even negative. Work with them, but, but neglected, work with them, you know, and then somebody suddenly, you know, thinks that then we're gonna get a scared dog to sit and down and stuff. And that’s how we’ll take care of it. W e had several dogs that had clearly been backyard dogs, we had to set them up with igloo, kennels, and, and a 50 foot cord. And we did that we put it right outside of mess hall area. So that they had to get used to at first seeing people walk by. And that was the first step, I had one little chow that I worked with it, she would just panic at the end of the 50 foot cord, if you ever even came within 75 to 100 feet. And at one point, I started to walk up the cable, I would step on it as I went so that she couldn't really go very far. It took me two hours to get 50 feet with her not panicking. And finally was able to like go for a walk and stuff. And you could start to see these little tiny glimpses of her emotional mental healing. When I got to her, I just stood there with my back to her for 20 minutes. And she came over and started sniffing. And then I felt a little nudge in my hand and it was like, ok we're getting there. And not every dog is you're not able to necessarily rehab every dog you work with. And that's, that's something that as a trainer, it's a tough thing to accept. Sure, because you want to help them all. Exactly. And I you know, I finally got to the point where I knew what, what issues I was most comfortable with, and what issues I was no good at. And I had, you know, I think we need to have a lot of self disclosure and honesty about, you know, what our limits are so that we can continue to help the dogs and not just la ti da. That's a great point. Well, Gail, I'm going to stop you there just for a minute so we can take a quick sponsor break and we will be right back. A special thanks to our sponsor of the month, Poochcasso. Of course, we all absolutely love our dogs and I bet that you have many pictures of them on your phone.  Well, why not take that a step further and have a unique and colorful portrait made of your pup!  Bruce is the artist behind Poochcasso and I absolutely love the piece he did of my dog Winston!  Bruce’s art is unlike anything I’ve ever seen and he so perfectly captured Winston’s spirit and personality in such a unique and colorful way.  I even got updates and pictures of the artwork throughout the process.  This is a one-of-a-kind piece that we’ll treasure forever.  These high-quality acrylic portraits on gallery wrapped canvas can be created of ANY animal and come with hanging hardware so you can display them immediately. They arrive carefully packaged and are shipped anywhere in the world at no additional charge. I can’t speak highly enough of Bruce’s work.  Go to poochcasso.com and see for yourself how Bruce can capture your dog and bring such colorful joy to your home.  Be sure to spread the word about these custom keepsakes and all of our Wag Out Loud pawdcast listeners can take advantage of a 20% discount.  That’s right, just use the code WOL when ordering from poochcasso.com and get 20% off of your order.  I’ve included the portrait of Winston (above) so that you can see my finished piece! Welcome back, everybody. We are chatting with Gail Green about training with kindness with our dogs. Gail, obviously this boils down to mutual respect. Can you unpack that? The Must Be Mutual Respect Yeah, I mean, I think the mutual respect and trust comes from us first. You know, I don't want to make a dog. I mean, somebody has pointed out to me that, you know, the fear could be thought of as respect. Okay, he respects me, it's not that simple. You know, when you do the putting down on their back, and you're sitting on top of them, and they're scared to death, and they've stopped their behavior, they haven't stopped it because they go, Oh, you're in charge, okay, I got it. They're just frozen because of the fear. And if they had a chance to do it, they will get out of there. It does change behavior. But it doesn't change it to a place where it's trustworthy. And the motivation is to stay where you are and work together. If somebody doesn't have respect for a dog, that's not the dog’s problem. That's a person's view. And I think kind of ego motivated. You know, he listens to me now, because I did this and that, well, you do this and that, and he's doing it with you, but look at his body language, you know, is he looking at you is he you know, inspired by you? No, he's afraid of you. So he's doing it, so he doesn't have to get hurt. I just I think first of all, you know, eye contact is really important. It's really easy to see the dog's comfort level, but just looking where are they looking at when you're talking to him, I'm my goal is to get her to turn her head sideways every time I talk. And for me to do that, I have to encourage that I have to be the one who takes that first step of respect. And some of it is about like with the little chow that I worked with. She was so scared. And I had to respect that, you know, that's something that's an issue I had to deal with. And if I didn't deal with it, I would never get that nudge that she did in my hand and a little bit of a wag, you know, just walking into a room with a scared dog and sitting on the other side of the room. Well, Gail, you, you bring up the best point because often what appears to be aggressive behavior in dogs is simply fear based. Right. And I think a lot of people don't understand, like, if I have a dog that acts aggressively, maybe toward a stranger, it may simply be that they have fear. And therefore they bark and they growl out of, you know, fear aggression, it is a thing. So it is we are not setting them up for success. Because, you know, for that instance, every time a stranger walks by, this dog is going to learn to fear them even more. Yeah. So we would be setting them up to fail. Fear Might = Aggression Yeah, yes. Well, you know, it's like, bottom line is we have the choice on what they get what they interpret. We make that decision. There was a dog at Katrina that it was probably middle aged-ish pitbull that was in a run that had stacks of straw and hay so he could go high if he wanted to. And that design was out of respect for his fear. And I sat with him for a while and started just kind of throwing treats around and he slowly came down and then he came over to sit by my feet because I had treats on my feet. And just got to the point where I could do, the best I could do is start petting him behind the ears and that kind of thing. People don't want to take that kind of time because it does take more time. But it also creates a more solid dog. A dog with more confidence. People approach from a lot of times that they take a step backwards or so. And if I, if I see that step happen to tell them, we're going to go another way here, because that's what I want to start with, is that step backwards, I want to make a step forward. Meet them where they are. Not with your expectation, right. Right, right. Let them make the decisions on what feels okay. Because if they feel okay, then they're likely to learn better. Well, let's do an experiment. Let's take a dog that either a puppy or an adult dog that does not know how to sit. Okay, we would probably think when we're teaching this dog to sit that we're going to push their butt down to the floor. Can you give us an example, how would you train a dog to sit out of kindness? Teaching Sit with Kindness What I do use rewards, and I do then randomize them, so they don't know when it's gonna come with a puppy, I will run the reward right past their nose, then usually, they will start to pay attention to it. And then I will just run it over their head a little bit. And I usually get a sit, because that's where the body is gonna go. So what they learn, I don't give a command first, when I'm teaching a new behavior, I get the behavior first. I don't want to waste commands, I don't want to have them hear sit 10 times, and then we push them down that teaches from nothing. What that teaches, is that they're going to wait for number 11. So what, what I'll do is start off with play. If you've got a shy dog, or that kind of thing, I don't go towards the dog with play, I go away from them with play. And that can influence them in thinking, Okay, if I step forward, not, it's not gonna happen badly. And I really want that toy, just working with them, to motivate them. And that's the key thing is motivation. I think, you know, if you're motivated to run out of fear, that's what you're gonna do. And each dog is different in motivation. But with a puppy, I will walk around and I'll make sure that that sit behavior is kind of generalized, I'll go into different rooms and that kind of thing, do the treat at their nose, if they jump, the treat us goes away, and then I'll do the treat again. And if they get bored, or tired, or don't know what to do, they will oftentimes sit just to think, and then they get the treat. So you have to wait it out. There's a lot of patience involved. Yeah, yeah, there was a young puppy, it was a little German Shepherd puppy in the shelter. And we were doing the Open Paw program with them. And I was showing the volunteers, this is how we get a sit from inside the kennel. And to hold the treat right outside the kennel door, let them smell it, almost touch it, let them get really frustrated. If a behavior doesn't work, a dog will change that behavior. So if enough times pawing at it and stuff doesn't get them the treat, they're gonna start to ponder what's going on, and most likely sit partly out of frustration, then they get the treat. And so the you can see the brain working. It’s like, wait a minute, what did I do that got me that treat? And this little guy, finally he got he got frustrated. And he did the sit. But he did it. He got went back to the back of the kennel and sat in his bed. And I threw the treat. So he put in another step. That was part of his interpretation of what I wanted. So I would hold the treat out and he would run back to his bed and sit, which is great. I mean, in the shelter. That's a good presentation. But we did have, you know, the different breeds are gonna have different kinds of motivation as well. And we had a little foxhound puppy, and she came to the front of the kennel, and she didn't sit, she did a play bow. And she stayed in that play bow until she got her treat. So when people would come up to look at the dogs, they would all run to the front of the kennel quiet, nobody jumping around. They would all sit right there. You know, people weren’t walking around with their fingers in their ears with the barking. The motivation was, this was you know, the motivation for most dogs is often food related or toy related, and making sure that you follow through when they do what you've asked them to do. Well, let's talk about your dog Frolic. She is adorable by the way and obviously loves to learn as all dogs do and they need mental stimulation. So how do you work with Frolic every day to make her want to get up every day and do things with you? Well, first of all, she's a real chowhound. So she will, if it looks like it might be food, she'll do whatever you want. But she loves life. And when I got her, she was just kind of, you know, she was a happy dog. But she wasn't, she was like, she wasn't expecting anything back. And so she in the first two weeks that I had her, she had no training, when I got her. The first two weeks that I had her, she learned 20 commands. And I tried to make sure I'm doing them different times different places on different surfaces, I'm doing them alone in the house and out in the crowd, just get her so that it's about the behavior, not the environment, I try to introduce new behaviors fairly often every few days or so. And then we work on those and she gets them so fast. I mean, she just like this sponge. So it's a pleasure for me as well. And she you know, and I tried to do silly commands you know, with with behavior so that people can also enjoy it. I had a sheltie that would roll over on her back when I said seduce. So if you could put some humor and play in everything, she was afraid to go into the bathroom. And most dogs are waiting at the door. But she was afraid to go in. So I just did a path of treats in and then back out of the bathroom. So she got something for staying there, she got something for leaving there. And she got two different commands in there. And you've told me in the past, you want her to expect fun and surprises and you actually say, parties. Training Should be Fun! A party party. Yeah. And that's, you know, think about when you're a kid, what kind of what kind of things motivated you as a kid. There were times when you got a positive response to those things, you got rewarded by being often asked to do the same thing again, which in itself can be a reward. It's about feeling also worthy. You know, Frolic knows that she can, I can actually move her around my house just by pointing. And she can do commands. And you know, her favorite thing is sort of run up the little steps, we have at my couch. And she'll run up there and run to the other end of the couch and wait and then I’ll point to the chair to go jump in the chair. You know, she anticipates the fun of it. You know, most dogs don't like baths. So I'll take her in the bath and the bathtub dry and give her treats and stuff. And then she gets a jump up. So we make it so that it isn't about something negative. It's going to happen. It's about here and now. Well, Gail, this has been amazing, and I can't believe our time is running out. But I guess in essence, what you're trying to convey to us that lives with our dogs is a true partnership, that we need to respect each other. Have patience with them. Because we are different species we speak different languages. So as we wrap up, what would you like to leave us with? Just a couple of sentences here. Kindness is simply about noticing and honoring each other. I honor my little stubby dog as she wags 24/7 The response in anticipation. And kindness is not just positive response to behaviors, but acceptance and enhancement of being alive and sharing our time together. I love that is so profound. And you hit it on the head. That's what life is all about. Right? Right. Well, Gail, thank you so much. I can't believe you've done so much for so many dogs in 60 plus years. That's just amazing. So thank you for your heart and teaching us through all that you've learned. Where can everybody find out more information about you? Or if people have questions? How can they get in contact with you? I do have a Facebook page. Okay, Gail Green, located in Forest Grove, Oregon. And that's probably the best way to go. Instagram: joopie2 email: bgdogs1@yahoo.com All right, Facebook. Well, give little Frolic a squeeze for me. And thank you so much, Gail. I appreciate your time today. All right, thank you so much. Thanks again to this month’s sponsor, Poochcasso.  I highly recommend that you check out Bruce’s work! Just send a picture of your pup and Bruce will create  a one-of-a-kind portrait of your special friend.  Remember to use the discount code WOL when ordering at Poochcasso.com to receive 20% off!