![Future Thinkers show](https://d3dthqtvwic6y7.cloudfront.net/podcast-covers/000/063/377/small/future-thinkers-podcast.png)
Summary: In Part 2 of our interview with Nora Bateson, an award-winning filmmaker, writer, educator, and the President of the International Bateson Institute, we continue our discussion on sense-making, on order and chaos, complex systems and cultures, and what we really need for social and cultural change. Show notes for both parts of the interview: futurethinkers.org/106