Seeing Color

Hey everyone. I hope everyone is staying safe. My school in China has currently moved to online teaching for the foreseeable future as no one knows how long the virus will affect China. As I mentioned in my previous episode, I rerouted my flight to Thailand to wait out the virus. I stayed in Chiang Mai and enjoyed living in warm weather and eating a lot of amazing northern Thai food, also called Lanna cuisine. I was also able to check out the Land Foundation, an art project started by Rirkrit Tiravanija. The foundation was hosting a solar panel cookout with local Lanna recipes and it interesting to see the whole event play out. I also met two other professors from Shanghai and Beijing who also left their cities and are teaching remotely. The longer I stayed in Asia, the more the news seemed to get worse and worse, so my original plan to teach remotely while traveling across Asia didn't seem too good. I left for Seoul for a week, but by the time this episode will be released, I'll be flying back to the US. For today's episode, I have Jo Elizabeth Stewart. Jo is a poet and theater maker. She uses a combination of gesture, voice, and text to make performance that investigates entrapment, borders, and freedom. Jo graduated from Reed College with a BA in English literature (2014) and continues to study poetry under the guidance of experimental poet Tracie Morris. She is a cross-disciplinary MFA candidate in the Literary Arts program at Brown University. I met Jo at a recent residency I did at Vermont in the winter break between semesters. In the residency, I met a wonderful group of artist of color and was lucky to interview a number of them. Jo was the first one I interviewed during my time there. Jo and I got to know each other by doing early morning meditations together before breakfast and on snowy walks in the woods. In our discussions, we talk about learning how to be uncomfortable, finding meaning in meaninglessness, and how to move the body in relation to the grammar of a language. I hope you enjoy this.

Hey everyone. I hope everyone is doing well. My life has been a bit hectic the past few weeks. I was living in Vermont finishing up my time at a residency when the whole Coronavirus became a major issue. For those not keeping up with the news in Asia, China has an outbreak with a virus. As I was mentally preparing to leave, I got news that the entire city of Wuhan became locked down and flights were being cancelled. My school, which originally was suppose to start on February 5th first got delayed a week, then two weeks, and now the first week of classes will be held online. My boss told me to stay away as long as possible. I rerouted my flight to Thailand to be on standby, but it might be that the entire semester will be held online. I don't know what an online art class looks like and am rewriting my syllabus. I just realized I may have gotten an accidental sabbatical if that is the case. I am trying to figure out where to go from Thailand at this point and may go back to the US for this semester since that is as far from the virus geographically. I will keep you updated on this as the weeks go on. As for today, I have an interview with Diana Lee, a writer, translator, and current director of Dillon+Lee Gallery. I have known Diana since our times in undergrad together although we didn't fully connect until after as we were both thinking about applying to grad school. Diana ended up pursuing an art criticism and writing degree at SVA before beginning working at her current gallery, where after many years, Diana became the director of the space. I had originally spoke with Diana right after the birth of her son but the audio got all messed up, so this is the second time speaking with Diana for the podcast. It was in our first interview that I spoke with Diana more about her time at the gallery and working her way up, but I didn't get to that this time through. Perhaps I can delve back into that in another interview in the future with Diana. But for this episode, we chat about languages relationship with art, what art criticism tries to do, and what it is like running a mid-tier gallery. I hope you enjoy this.

Hello everyone. It has been a while and I hope everyone is taking care of themselves properly this winter season. I feel bad having taken such a long break but I had been traveling quite a bit and then my computer needed some fixing. Everything is now up and running. I’ve been in Vermont the past month for a residency and it has quite productive. In spite of Vermont being overwhelmingly filled with Sallys and Beckys, I did meet a wonderful group of POC artists and writers. We bounded over not anything in particular, but as one writers described our group, we were drawn to each other kind of like a collective unconscious that was already there. Shout out to Cindy for that beautiful sentence. Anyway, I’ve been spending my time here reading, meditating, shooting a new video, and interviewing people here. I also got to give a talk in Portland, Maine about my work and the podcast. Shout out to everyone who came to see me talk and I was glad I could share my work there. I did some studio visits and met with a documentary studies class that asked me some great questions about that caused me to reflect about my podcast in new ways. I will begin releasing more episodes in two weeks. But for today, I will publish an interview I did on another podcast, Art People Pod, with Justin Favela. You may have remembered Justin from my very first episode. Justin was the person who originally inspired me to begin a podcast and I thought releasing him interviewing me for his podcast would be a good interim before starting back up again. This episode was originally recorded while Justin visited me in Berlin. We chat about artist residencies, podcasting, race, and so much more. I hope you enjoy this.

Hey everyone. I hope you are doing well. The weather has changed slightly here in Zhuahi...it feels like LA at the moment, although not a dry. I've been recently falling in love with the tropical breeze here. I am still coming to terms with living in a tropical place as opposed to visiting it temporarily. The past weekend I traveled to Xi'an and learned a great deal of Chinese history given the city's long geographic and historic importance. The silk road starts there and many of China's leader came from or went through Xi'an in their beginnings. I got to see the Terracota Army, which is an 8,000 life-sized army recreated to guard the Qin Dynasty's first Emperor in the afterlife. It was massive and I temporarily made me rethink my own art. Anyway. Today, I am speaking with Sarnt Utamachote. Born in Thailand, Sarnt moved to Berlin in 2014 where he has been rediscovered himself and his ‘essence’ of Asianness within a European culture ever since. He describes himself as a filmmaker-photographer-artist-poet-writer-clubkid-culture enthusiast. Sarnt also organizes Thai film festivals around Berlin and our circles overlapped during my time there. I got to catch Sarnt before I left for China and we talked about navigating cities, k-pop, white queer German filmmakers, and Asian masculinities. I hope you enjoy this. Photo Credit: Jessica Sattabongkot

Hey everyone. Another two weeks has gone by and a new episode is here for you. I don't have too much new going on at the moment. Next week I'll be going on a trip to Xi'an with my Chinese class. I'm excited to see the Terracotta Army there and try northern Chinese food. I applied to a few residencies around China for the summer and I'm hoping to be able to continue to travel while making art. I'll keep you updated. For today, I am interviewing Sophia Zarders, an illustrator, comic artist, and educator from Long Beach, California. Their illustrations have been published in The Nation, Socialist Review, Shameless Magazine, and other independent publications. They graduated from California State University, Long Beach with a Bachelor's of Fine Arts in Illustration and they currently work as a freelance artist and an art instructor for adults with disabilities. Sophia was one of the first artists I met and hung out with when I arrived in Berlin in 2018. I recorded this a year ago, so a few things we talk are clearly not up to date, such as our favorite summer movies. But overall, as I listened through it, our conversation had a relaxing feel as we discuss roller coasters, comics, and 2018's summer movies. I hope you enjoy it.

Hey everyone. I hope everyone is well. Classes are past the halfway point and I am starting to think about my winter plans. There are a few places I want to visit in China. This past weekend, I was happy to see my parents as they were visited Hong Kong. They came over to Zhuhai along with some relatives from Hong Kong and Shanghai. We rented a car and drove a few hours north to the Shunde District. I got to practice my terrible Mandarin and eat some amazing food. Since there were 10 of us, we got to order quite a bit and try a lot of different dishes. Some food highlights include sweet and sour shrimp and double layered milk dessert. Overall, it was a good weekend. Anyway, for this episode, I am speaking with Femi Oyewole, a multi disciplinary artist who uses any medium to create unique experiences and bring people together. Originally born in Nigeria, Femi moved to London where eventually lived and he grew up in. Femi studied at the BRIT School for Performing Arts & Technology before continuing his training at London Contemporary Dance School. Since graduating Femi has had the opportunity to work with a variety of choreographers and companies, including BlueMan Group, Will Tuckett’s Faeries, Simeon Qsyea, Ivan Blackstock, DV8 Physical Theatre, Protein Dance Company, The Ongoing Project and more. Femi is also the founder and CEO of Black Brown Berlin, a website that provides information of quality events and ‘safer’ spaces for black and brown people in Berlin. Black Brown Berlin started around the same time as this podcast and we found each other through Instagram so thank you internet! I reached out to Femi as I was curious to hear how Femi started his project and how his experiences in Berlin drove him to create Black Brown Berlin. We go over Femi’s early forays into dance, how he became a Blue Man, and the importance of information as liberation. It was a fun conversation and I hope you enjoy this.

Hey everyone. I hope everyone is enjoying fall. The weather in Zhuhai is finally not unbearably hot and sticky. I have been trying my best to learn Chinese and it is kicking my ass, although I notice I am easing in it a bit better than others as I was lucky to grow up listening to Cantonese and being forced by my parents to take Saturday morning Mandarin classes as a child. Thanks mom and dad. I have also been traveling quite a bit on weekends. So far, I've been to Shenzhen, Xiamen, Guangzhou, and Hong Kong. I hope to eventually make it more north to Shanghai and Beijing. Anyway, today I have a fun episode to share as I am speaking with Natalia Gomez. Natalia was born in Columbia before her parents moved to Virginia. Natalia completed her BFA at Carnegie Mellon University right before I began my graduate program, but Natalia stuck around and continued working with and within the Pittsburgh arts community. Natalia is a visual artist working primarily in sculpture and photography. Much of her work uses the visual language of basic contemporary building materials - sheetrock and pine 2x4s - to explore form, labor, and the body’s relationship to space. I've known Natalia for quite a while as she was my neighbor the whole time I lived in Pittsburgh. I still remember fondly of spending many evenings with Natalia on our buildings rooftop talking and drinking the night away. At the time of our interview, Natalia was working for the outreach and education program at the Carnegie Museum of Art but has since made a shift towards a few other areas. She recently told me she finally came to terms with keeping her day time job separate from her practice. For our conversation, we delve into what failure and success means to us individually, how one comes to accept a name, outreach in art institutions, and weddings. Our conversation goes all over the place and it reminded me of our rooftop conversations. I hope you enjoy it.

Hey everyone. Time is flying by and at the same time, I no longer have a good grasp of how long I've been in China. Last week was a haze as I flew out to Chicago to see my brother get married. I got to see my family which is always a good thing. I didn't think so when I was younger but I feel I'm getting more sentimental as I get older. My internal clock got all wonky as I had to switch 13 hours backwards for a few days and then immediately switch again. The flight was 15 hours there and 17 hours back. On the way out to Chicago, I made a quick trip to Hong Kong and saw my cousin. I ate some amazing food and saw a funny exhibition about Studio Ghibli, although the entire time I was there, the city felt very tense there with smaller protests happening on the streets and flyers posted all over. Anyway, for today, I'm interviewing my very good friend, Yvette Robertson. I met Yvette through some combination of Nine Yamamoto-Masson, who I previously interviewed, and Lavender Wolf, an American artist currently living in Belgium who I never got a chance to interview before I left Europe. Yvette and I continued to run into each other and we started hanging out a lot, especially towards the end of my stay in Berlin. Nine described what Yvette does as doing the hard work few people want to do, which is to say she teaches about race and intersectionality to business professionals who largely do not have the language or, often times, interest to engage with the topic. These classes tend to be mandatory set by the administrators who want their institution to look socially aware without really understanding what that means. I attended a few of Yvettes classes to see how such a dynamic would play out and found the whole experience spooky, tiring, and fascinating. I was really happy to record our mildly drunken conversation after a very delightful Sri Lankan breakfast Yvette cooked up. We talk about power dynamics, processing white guilt, and the failure of true objectivity. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Hello everyone. Wow...so it's been a year since I launched this podcast. I am a bit shocked the podcast lasted this long. I still remember releasing my first episode with Justin Favela. I had just moved to Berlin and didn't quite know the identity of my show. I worried endlessly about how I sounded, whether I made any sense, and what the intro music will be. A year later, I'm now in China. A few things that I've noticed is my intros have gotten longer and better. I think I have a clearer idea of what it means to be a podcaster, along with the sheer amount of work that goes into it. I still wonder about the reach of this project based on the analytics of the site, although here and there I find that a few people are indeed listening and contributing to my Patreon. So again, thank you to all the listeners who have supported this podcast and everyone who has been interviewed. If you want to show your support, you can subscribe, tweet about the show using hashtag #podin, or donate to my Patreon for $2 a month. I will love you all the same no matter which is easier for you at the current moment. Again, huge thanks to you, my listeners. So today, I will be interviewing Billie Lee. Billie works at the intersection of art, pedagogy, and social change. She received her BFA from the Rhode Island School of Design and MFA from Yale University. Billie contacted me as a listener of the podcast and wanted to talk to me for her dissertation, which examines the intersection of race, identity, and cultural politics in contemporary art and education. Billie sent me an essay to give further context on her work, which I thoroughly enjoyed and have linked that essay in the show notes. We had a preliminary chat via Skype before this actual interview to get to know each other better. I didn't quite know what to expect or whether our talk would meander toward an interesting path, but I recorded it nonetheless just in case (with Billie's consent of course). We chatted while Billie was completing a residency at Mass MOCA and as I was about to leave Berlin. The following interview delves quite a bit into my own reflections about the podcast and what I have learned from the process. We talk about our shared experiences going to art school as Asian-Americans, the politics of a model minority, and how white spaces want an endless explanation of certain types of non-white otherness. In editing the audio, I thought this would be a nice discussion to release on the anniversary of this show, given the reflective nature of Billie interviewing me. I still have a lot to learn and things I want to do and people I want to interview. Hopefully this will be one of many anniversaries. In any case, I hope you enjoy it.

Hey everyone. I hope everyone is enjoying the end of summer. Things are going well in China. There is a lot to learn about the Chinese bureaucratic system as I try to get things done. There's always a sense of community over individuality, which is interesting in the context of art and creativity and trying to be an individual. I am still trying to find my routine after the first two weeks of classes, but it is becoming more clear how to schedule my time. I have two videos I am currently editing from my time in Berlin. I hope to finish both by the end of the year. Fingers crossed! For today's episode, I get to talk and laugh with Shannon Tamara Lewis. I first met Shannon through the The Berlin Diaspora Society, a group founded by Indrani Ashe. The purpose of the group is to set up studio visits with artists working from a non-European perspective. At the time, Shannon and I were visiting another artist's studio and we hit it off. We exchanged visits and I got to go to Shannon's studio, which happens to be in the same space as Chiharu Shiota, one of my favorite artist. and I had one of the most refreshing conversations with Shannon about the Berlin art scene and really looked forward to being able to record our interactions. Shannon got her BFA from the Ontario College of Art & Design and an MFA at Goldsmiths in London. Shannon’s practice is about demanding a pleasure space that plays with primping and polishing not as an assimilation to the fashion-beauty complex; but a space of satisfying self-care and artistry. Her work hovers between wanting to desperately participate in the trappings of privilege and wanting to tear down the structures that provide them. We talk about all these topics, as well as the ghost of representation, the scrambling of identity, and putting specificity in one's work. Shannon has quite a few shows lined up this fall, so if you are in any of these places, go check them out. Shannon has as a pop up show in London on September 26, an exhibition at the Projektraum in Kunstquartier Bethanien in Berlin on October 3rd, another exhibition at Alice Yard in Trinidad and Tobago on November 13th, a group show at the Les Urbaines Festival in Lausanne, Switzerland on December 6th, and finally, a pop up exhibition at BUTCH Cut in Berlin on January 18th. I'll also add more information in the show notes and on social media as I get more information. In any case, I hope you enjoy our conversation. Photo: Min Wei Ting

Hey everyone. It feels like it's been a while, but I finally made it into China. It was a very long and stressful flight until I was able to settle down my bags. To give you a rundown of what happened that day, basically I didn't have an entry visa until the last minute. The paperwork for my visa took longer than expected and I missed the first part of staff orientation. The visa center in Berlin said they would give me my passport on last Tuesday at 2pm, although I wouldn't know if my visa would be approved until I got my passport back that day. I was all packed because I wanted to catch a 6pm flight out that same day. So I arrived early at the visa center and I got my visa approved at 2pm. Immediately after, I quickly went home, bought my ticket, and headed to the airport for a 17 hour flight, with a connection at Qatar. After traveling another two hours to reach Zhuhai, I finally got to my hotel. I spent the next few days looking for apartments and settling down. The second night was somewhat stressful as getting money was difficult. Most places didn't take my American credit card and many ATMs didn't take my bank card. Everyone here pays digitally with their phone, but you can't set that up without a Chinese bank account, which you can't set up without first getting a residency permit. A few kind staff members helped me out and now I am feeling ok. My initial thoughts on Zhuhai is it is very hot and tropical, weather conditions that I am not a fan of. Otherwise, food here is very good and cheap, although I am biased towards Cantonese food. I'll keep you updated on anything new once classes start. For today, I am interviewing Accra Shepp. Accra got his BA in Art History and Studio Art from Princeton University, followed by a Master's Degree in Art History from the Institute of Fine Arts, NYU. He also completed a Fulbright Fellowship in Indonesia, so we have that in common. Working primarily in photography, Accra has exhibited in spaces such as MoMA, the Chicago Art Institute, and the Whitney Museum. I met Accra during my time at Anderson Ranch in the winter of 2018. Accra was invited to help jury the following year's round of residents for a few days, so I got to get to know Accra over dinner and late night drinks. Accra and I talk about the Wall Street protests, making websites, social justice in the arts, and the power of photography. Accra was actually the second person I ever interviewed. As I edited the audio, I found my younger self sounding awkward and tentative, although I'm not sure exactly how much has changed since then -_- I do feel like a different person from the voice that is only a year and a half old, which I guess it means I am continually growing, hopefully in a good direction. In any case, here's our conversation and you can be the judge of that. Enjoy. Photo: Ben Timpson

Hello everyone. Today I have some news to share with you followed by a very special episode. So I recently got a teaching/professorship opportunity in Zhuhai, a small city in China, to teach art. Most people don't seem to know where Zhuhai is, which is understandable as I didn't either when I first saw the job posting. But if you're curious, Zhuhai is in the middle of Macau, Hong Kong, and Shenzen, about an hour away from each city. By the time this episode is released, I will be flying over. I have about two weeks to find a place to live and figure out my syllabi once I arrive, so it will be a hectic arrival. Regarding the podcast, don't worry as I will still be releasing episodes as I have a backlog of conversations. I will be releasing these dialogues throughout the coming year as I figure out how I would like the podcast to exist within the context of China. I will keep you updated. Anyway, for today's show, I have the pleasure of interviewing Vanessa Vu, a journalist from Zeit Online. I first heard of Vanessa through Nine Yamamoto-Masson, whom I previously interviewed and seems to be connecting me to many amazing people around Berlin. I got to say hi to Vanessa shortly after at an Asian-Germany cultural event. Vanessa is a very busy person and it took me some time to schedule an interview and I was happy that it finally happened before I left Berlin. I visited Vanessa at her office and got to use a fancy sound-booth with fancy mics. I wonder if you can hear the difference. In addition to her journalist work, Vanessa hosts the podcast, Rice and shine, that deals with Asian-German issues. I have to admit that I have not been able to listen to Vanessa's show as my German isn't good enough to follow. This privileging of the English language certainly isn't lost on me, which is touched upon in this episode. Vanessa and I also discuss her growing up in Southern Germany, cultural appropriation, and yellow-facing both in the broader context and more specifically through a recent German play with yellow-facing that won critical acclaim across Germany. I had a lot of fun talking with Vanessa and I hope you do as well, so let's get on with it.

Hey y'all. Today I have a relatively short but special episode for you. I met up with Darrell Kinsel, also professionally known as D.S. Kinsel, at his project space, Boom Concepts. I first met Darrell just at the inception of Boom Concepts while they moved into their current space on Penn Ave, back in 2013. I approached Boom with this silly idea I had to curate a painting show with a group of conceptual and installation-based artists. Darrell was excited by my strange curatorial project and thats where our friendship began. Over the years, we saw each other's artistic career grow and I was happy to interview Darrell after all our shared experiences. Darrell describes himself as a “black creative entrepreneur and cultural agitator" and his work focuses on themes of escapism, space keeping, urban tradition, pop culture, hip-hop, informalism and cultural appropriation. Darrell is also the co-founder of Boom Concepts, a combination work space and creative hub that offers artist studios in auxiliary locations across Pittsburgh’s unique neighborhoods. In conjunction with these activities, Darrell also works with youth, community artists, and community partners in order to identify ways for youth to express issues of social justice through drama, dance, music, visual art, and technology. At the time of the interview, which somehow was over a full year ago in 2018, Darrell had just became a father and was a busy man. His marriage was three days away and he had a lot on his mind. Since I was leaving for Berlin at the time, Darrell was kind enough to squeeze in some time for a short interview. Darrell was taking a break with a deinstall at Boom Concepts and keeping a close eye on his daughter, Liberty. There are a few stray baby sounds and other noises in the space as a result. Hopefully they aren't too distracting. I definitely would like to chat longer with Darrell in the future. In any case, I hope you enjoy this.

Hey all. In today's episode, I have a really intense conversation with the wonderful artist, Christa Joo Hyun D'Angelo. I first met Christa through Nine, who I interviewed on Episode 16. A few months after, we ran into each other as we both installed our work at an exhibition curated by a mutual friend and we remained in touch. Christa started her studies at The Maryland Institute College of Art and finished up at The Academy of Fine Arts in Krakow Poland. She moved to Berlin shortly after and has lived here ever since. Christa works in installation, sculpture, video, neon, and collage. This interview coincides with Christa's recent solo exhibition at Galerie im Turm, titled GHOSTS, and her show runs until August 18th. As a multi-media immersive installation, Christa's show looks at the extent to which shame, stigma and isolation can be transformed into strength and self-empowerment, and expanding the complex and diverse narratives relating to HIV and AIDS activism. Christa writes that her exhibition is intended as a feminist contribution to discourses addressing toxic relationships and sexually transmitted diseases, through which women, in particular women of colour, have historically been silenced and – now as then – are rendered invisible. Our conversation meanders through these topics, although I am definitely not an expert in the subject. I hope you find our conversation to be as interesting as I did in listening to Christa tell her stories. Also, on July 30th at 7pm, Christa will host an artist talk at the gallery with Alphonsine Bakambamba of Deutsche Aidshilfe. If you are in Berlin, by Frankfurter Tor 1, please swing by and show your support. This recording took place at Christa's beautiful flat, so you may hear some footsteps from her dog and the occasional wind chimes. Hopefully they aren't too much of a distraction. And with that, let's get on with the show.

Hey y'all. I hope everyone is doing well. I don't have too much new news these days, although I have a whole bunch of interesting people I have lined up to interview in the coming months. Although you may not hear them until a few months later given my slow bi-weekly releases. I sometimes wonder if I should release my podcast weekly instead of bi-weekly, but I'm not sure if I can do that much work, as I'm even finding bi-weekly somewhat difficult. Sometimes I wished I had a co-host to help spread the work. Anyway, for today, I am speaking with Christiane Dolores, a multi-disciplinary artist, writer, and musician. Her practice is driven by pursuing questions about our shared humanity as well as her personal histories as a first generation mixed-race American. Christiane also helps local Pittsburgh artists out through her work as an artist relations coordinator at the Greater Pittsburgh Arts Council. Lastly, Christiane is a member of the notwhite collective, a group of bi/multi-racial women artists who investigate what identity is within and without the construct and context of white---not in skin color, but as a system of oppression. I had reached out to Christiane from her involvement in the nonwhite collective and wanted to hear her speak about how the group came about. We also meandered through her early life experiences and the many detours she took that led to the collective's formation. The release of this interview also coincides somewhat with Christiane's third solo album, The Pantry of Salt and Sugar. The album is a selection of 15 songs culled from a two-year, 500 microsong project. On July 27th, the album release party will have a live performance on a water limousine floating down Pittsburgh’s three rivers. If you happen to be in Pittsburgh and want to go, I'll link more information in the show notes. So stay cool this summer and enjoy our conversation.