Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler show

Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Summary: Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard Ostler (twitter:; FB:; IG: and am a native of Salt Lake City. I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints at and I am the author of two recent Ensign articles on ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) and ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) I have degrees from the University of Utah and Brigham Young University (business). I married my best friend and eternal companion Sheila Juergens of Houston, Texas in 1990 and we are the parents of six children and several grandchildren and live near Cottonwood High School in Salt Lake City. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. The name ‘Papa Ostler’ resulting from being introduced to Twitter by my High School age son Matt in 2010. I wanted the high school age youth to know I wasn’t their age as I interacted with them … hence the name Papa Ostler. I served as a YSA Bishop in the West Valley City/Magna area of Salt Lake (released in 2016) and met some of the finest people I will ever know. In addition to meeting with wonderful active members of my Ward, I reached out and connected via social media (mostly via the private messaging features of FB and Twitter) with many of our inactive members and their non-member friends. Over time, many felt comfortable meeting with me and sharing their stories. Through hundreds of interviews and ‘listening to understand’, I was able to ‘see’ the church from the eyes of those on the outside. Many feel the church is their ‘spiritual home’ but feel uncomfortable attending for a variety of reasons such as work-in-progress testimonies, concerns about church history, feeling unworthy because of past or current sin, don't fit the cultural mold, role of women, are LGBTQ and/or feel God's LGBTQ childen should be more welcomed in our congregations, etc. This podcast is designed to 'Have a Conversation' about some of the more complicated issues in our church to help all of us 'listen, learn and love' so we can minister in a more effective way to all of Heavenly Father’s children. Most podcasts will be from our LDS LGBTQ friends to give them voice so we can better understand their road, touch their cross, learn from them, and minister to them as directed by President M. Russell Ballard when he said "We need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing. Certainly, we must do better than we have done in the past so that all members feel they have a spiritual home where their brothers and sisters love them and where they have a place to worship and serve the Lord(Nov 2017 BYU Devotional)." Some podcasts will be from LGBTQ allies sharing their experiences and how to be helpful. Other podcasts will be from guests talking about other complicated topics such as mental health, returning from a mission early, overcoming sin, and faith challenges. Are podcast are indexed by category at Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ *I will respond to your e-mails*

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 Episode 144: Jana Spangler, Active LDS, Expert of Faith Transitions | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:39:04

My friend Jana Spangler, married mother of 3, talks about how to understand and minister to those in a faith transition and in a mix-faith marriage. Jana also talks about Fowler’s stages of faith a framework to help all of us better understand our differences and create common group. Jana, a Life Coach, shared these insights recently at North Star (a LDS LGBTQ support organization) and a Ward fireside. This will be a very helpful podcast for those looking for added insights and tools to minister to those in a faith crisis or transition, those in a faith transition and those who find themselves in a mixed-faith marriage. Jana can be reached at Thanks for being on the podcast Jana. Your work brings more understanding and helps keeps us together. You are awesome.

 Episode 143: Adam Durfee, BYU Professor, Age 30, Directs Y Digital at BYU | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:18:12

My friend Adam Durfee talks about his career in digital marketing including starting a digital ad agency, being named social media innovator of the year, and leaving his agency to teach at BYU to help students be better digital marketers. Adam also advises the Church on its digital marketing efforts. Yes, Adam (married) is a Professor at BYU at the age of 30. But most of the podcast is Adam sharing insights into our LGBTQ siblings, bringing voice to our talented women (his favorite topic), and his insights into the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Adam talks about how he creates an accepting culture in his class and on social media so that students (including those not in his class) know they can open up about difficult issues they are confronting. Thank you Adam for sharing some of your insights. You are a rare combination of great business skills and strong pastoral skills helping to lift so many. Thanks for being on the podcast. You can find Adam on Twitter, IG and Facebook @AdamDurfee

 Episode 142: Nelson Lee, Active LDS, RM, Solving OCD, Anxiety and Depression | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:12:06

Episode 142: Nelson Lee, Active LDS, RM, Solving OCD, Anxiety and Depression by Richard Ostler

 Episode 141: Allan and Kattie Mount, Mixed Faith Marriage, 4 Kids, Staying Close | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:21:52

My friends Allan and Kattie Mount share their journey of both being active LDS (both Barcelona Spain RMs) and then in Allan have a faith transition in 2017 that led him out of the church. In spite of his best efforts and wonder local leaders, Allan is no longer able to believe. Allan and Katie bravely share how they are navigating this space. Allan no longer attends on Sunday, but helps gets the kids ready for Church and participates with his EQ in service projects as he loves his church community. He is not trying to draw others out of the Church. Kattie serves at the Ward Primary President. Allan and Kattie started a podcast called ‘Marriage on a Tight Rope’ focused on mixed-faith marriages and how to keep those marriages together. See for more information. Thanks for being on the podcast Allan and Kattie. You two are awesome and doing a much needed work to keep families together.

 Episode 140: Roxanne Kennedy, Active LDS, Divorced from Porn Addict, Mother of 4, Author | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:16:18

My friend Roxanne Kennedy bravely shares her story of a 20 year marriage to a pornography addict (the marriage ended about 4 years ago). It’s a deeply touching story of how she turned to Heavenly Father for guidance and the atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and give hope. Showing great courage, vulnerability and acting on Heavenly Father’s impressions, she wrote a book called “Cutting Ties. Healing from Betrayal Trauma as the Spouse of an Addict.” See her web site to order the book and more info: As a former single ward Bishop who conducted 100s of interviews about porn, I wish I had heard from Roxanne before I was called to have better principals, spiritual insights and role of experts to help my ward members. I encourage parents of children, local leaders, spouses and people working to solve porn to listen to this podcast and read her book. I promise it will increase your insights and give you better tools to help people in this space. Thank you Roxanne for your courage to share your journey and insights. You are one of the most remarkable persons I have ever met. You voice is helping so many.

 Episode 139: Ken & Sue Hansen (married parents of 3, LDS) & their son Hank (22, gay, less active) | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:29:21

My dear friends Ken, Sue and Hank Hansen share their family story. Ken and Sue (a convert) have served the Church their whole lives outside of Utah (Illinois, Connecticut and New York). They talk about making their Wards loving and inclusive. Ken and Sue talk about the pain of the November 2015 Policy Statements and how that almost broke their testimonies but how they remain committed members. Ken and Sue now live in Utah and share the differences in Ward culture. Ken, Sue and Hank share the story of Hank coming out as gay at age 16 (a student at the University of Utah) and how they are navigating that road with Hank stepping away from active church attendance. They share principals to keep the family circle together even with different feelings about our Restored Church. Instead of ignoring these complex topics, there is open communication and discussion helping to create real connection and deeply family ties. There are no ‘elephants in the room’ at the Hansen home. Thanks to all three of you for being on the podcast. This podcast will be particularly helpful for active LDS parents who have adult children who have stepped away. Each of you are remarkable, thoughtful and deeply spiritual. Honored to have you on the podcast!

 Episode 138: Willy and Kristy Donahoo, 60 Pride Flags with a Neighbor to Neighbor Ask | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:24:50

My friends Willy and Kristy Donahoo, who don’t have any immediate LGBTQ family members, share their story of becoming LGBTQ allies. It started with Willy’s talk in Church (Sept 2015) about owning the ‘visitors welcome’ message at our buildings when he mentioned the need to welcome our gay friends. Willy and Kristy then connected with Encircle (they serve on their advisory board). They talk about the need to proactively ‘act’ to be accepting versus a passive statement of acceptance. In April 2019 Willy and Kristy, wanting to act, purchased 60 pride flags for their neighborhood in Sandy, Utah. They share the remarkable story of encouraging their neighbors (thru social media, letter writing and door-to-door visits) to consider displaying a flag until all 60 flags were claimed and displayed starting on May 27th. Click here for a copy of their letter: and the Mr. Rogers quote: It’s a really cool story. This resulted in Mama Dragons, a group of mothers of LGBTQ children, posting a picture and story on Facebook about the flags that went viral including KSL running a story .But what happened once the flags were up in their neighborhood is the real story. Willy and Kristy share some of these deeply touching and healing stories that occurred as these much needed conversations finally happened. Several of these brought tears to my eyes and hearts were healed and authentic connections made. Willy and Kristy invite you to consider doing this in your neighborhood next year. Thanks Willy and Kristy for being on the podcast and your discipleship. You two are awesome.

 Episode 137: Amelia Hepworth, Active LDS, In Recovery from Eating Disorder, Bi-Sexual | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:01:03

My good friend Amelia Hepworth (age 22 and in a serious relationship with her friend Greg) calls in from Kansas City, Kansas to bravely share some of her story. Amelia has bravely dealt with and mostly solved her eating disorder (anorexia) including a deeply spiritual experience at the Kansas City Temple giving her the courage to seek treatment. Amelia talks about how her eating disorder is not a sign of weakness or spiritual deficit, but a mental illness that needs clinically trained people to help solve. Amelia also talks about being a bi-sexual Latter-day Saint and opening up to Greg before they even started dating. She talks about her close relationship with Greg and their hopes for the future. You are a wonderful and courageous woman, Amelia. I was so touched by your courage, strength and faith. Thanks for being on the podcast!

 Episode 136: Brothers Ian Calk (28, RM, in faith journey), Gareth Calk (25, RM, stepping away). | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:46:39

My friends Ian and Gareth Calk (brothers) share the journey as Latter-day Saints navigating their faith. Ian has gone through a faith crisis and is currently active LDS. Gareth has stepped away. While neither brother is inviting others to follow their path, I believe it is helpful to hear their story so we can better understand why some of our members step away giving us better insights to minister to them. I believe the Good Shepherd knows His sheep well enough to know why one left and where to find them. Yes, I think this increases the chances someone will return if the person ministering to them understand the full story behind their journey. Ian explains what a faith crisis is like in this article: Ian co-founded (with his friends Jenn Mack and Andrew Sturgess) RISE, an LDS LGBTQ support group in Atlanta. Ian has spent countless hours getting to know our LGBTQ friends through private interviews which has been transforming to him. RISE meets every other month in a different LDS member home in the Atlanta area usually hearing from one of our LDS LGBTQ members. Thank you Ian and Gareth for sharing your journey. Honored to have you on the podcast. You two are great friends.

 Episode 135: Kurt Francom, Founder of Leading Saints, Active LDS, Ministering Insights | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:21:00

My friend Kurt Francom, married father of 2, former Bishop and Stake Presidency member, joins me to share insights into effective local leadership. In 2010 Kurt founded Leading Saints ( a non-profit to provide additional tools for local leaders including podcasts and virtual summits. This list of guests is impressive (Anthony Sweet, Tom Christofferson, Patrick Mason, Bruce and Marie Hafen and my brother Dave Ostler). The tag line of Leading Saints is ‘Be a Leader, Not a Calling’. Kurt has great insights into ministering to those who have a more difficult road to stay active Latter-day Saints. I learned so much from Kurt’s insights. Thank you Kurt for your wonderful ministry to help people come unto Christ through our Restored Church

 Episode 134: Matt Easton, RM, BYU Grad, Valedictorian | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:40:00

Our family friend Matt Easton shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Matt came out as gay during his BYU Valedictorian Speech at BYU for the College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences. Since that speech on April 29th, Matt has been features in thousands of stories and done hundreds of interviews including appearing on the Ellen DeGeneres show on May 6th. We are honored to call Matt a close family friend particularly our daughter Emily who is a fellow BYU Student. Glad to have you on the podcast Matt to share a longer version of your story. You give hope to so many. You are a great man, friend, and have a wonderful future!

 Episode 133: Dallon Smith & Taylor Winget, RMs, Engaged, Trying to Stay Engaged with the Church | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:25:07

My friends Dallon Smith and Taylor Winget share their journey serving missions (Chile and Argentina, respectively), coming out as gay, graduating from college (Utah State and BYU respectively), starting to date, now getting married (Aug 2019) and continuing to attend church as best they can. They were featured by ABC4 last April…/same-sex-couple-choosing-…/1903886065. Dallon and Taylor share how their active and wonderful LDS families are supporting them in their upcoming marriage to keep the family circle together in love, support and understanding. In sharing their story, I am not inviting anyone to follow a path outside the doctrine of our church. I invite everyone to stay. However, I feel it is important to humanize stories of those who choose to different road so we can keep the family circle together and show support as each LGBTQ person decides their best path as they move forward. This podcast may also be helpful for LDS parents who have a child going into a same-sex marriage and how to navigate this road. Thanks for being on the podcast Dallon and Taylor! You two are great and I look forward to your future and the wonderful contributions you two will make in society. Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤

 Episode 132: Kate Toronto, Active LDS, RM, Mid 20’s, Masters from Columbia with Thesis on LDS LGBTQ | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:25:40

My friend Kate Toronto joins us to talk about stepping into the space of active LDS and understanding/supporting our LGBTQ friends when she felt impressed to do her thesis on this subject as part of earning a Master’s Degree in Psychology in Education from Columbia University in New York. As part of her thesis, she conducted research with 450 LGBTQ Latter-day Saints (mix of active/not active). She shares her findings, conclusions and pastoral implications for our LDS LGBTQ members. Kate successfully defended her dissertation and graduates in late May 2019. Kate has unique and fresh insights into the difficult road our LGBTQ friends walk and things we can do to minister to them and lighted their road. I was deeply moved by Kate’s insights and her good heart and have more hope that we are moving in the right direction to both lift the burdens of our LGBTQ members and embrace their contributions to help us become the Body of Christ.

 Episode 131: Clare Marshall, LDS, Lives in England, Works for LGBT Foundation, Ward RS Presidency | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:23:36

My friend Clare Marshall calls in from Warrington, England (one of my mission areas) to share her journey as an active Latter-day Saint and supporter of our LGBTQ+ friends. Clare, a life-long member in her 20’s, talks about a transgender ward member and her friendship with a transgender man during her youth, her mission in Frankfurt Germany, returning from her mission to study a masters in MSc Art Psychotherapy and final completing her dissertation and training year at a LGBT Health Centre before taking on a full time role at LGBT Foundation located in Manchester, England. Clare helps us understand how following the Gospel of Jesus Christ encourages us to reach out to those who have a more difficult road in mortality like our LGBTQ+ friends and how we can help lift their burdens. Clare shares helpful insights to our transgender and non-binary friends. Thank you Clare for being on the podcast. You are awesome and doing a great work!

 Episode 130: Brett Hales, Married Father of 5, Active LDS, Has MS, Kindness to All | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:18:09

My friend Brett Hales shares his life story of growing in Magna, serving a mission in Alaska, marrying Cindy Ulrich (37 years ago), raising 5 kids (all married with 7 grandchildren), serving as a Bishop (sharing very tender stories involving priesthood blessings), being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and serving on the Murray City Council. Brett also shares his thoughts about our LGBTQ friends and people of other faiths and seeing the goodness in everyone.


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