Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler show

Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Summary: Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard Ostler (twitter:; FB:; IG: and am a native of Salt Lake City. I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints at and I am the author of two recent Ensign articles on ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) and ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) I have degrees from the University of Utah and Brigham Young University (business). I married my best friend and eternal companion Sheila Juergens of Houston, Texas in 1990 and we are the parents of six children and several grandchildren and live near Cottonwood High School in Salt Lake City. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. The name ‘Papa Ostler’ resulting from being introduced to Twitter by my High School age son Matt in 2010. I wanted the high school age youth to know I wasn’t their age as I interacted with them … hence the name Papa Ostler. I served as a YSA Bishop in the West Valley City/Magna area of Salt Lake (released in 2016) and met some of the finest people I will ever know. In addition to meeting with wonderful active members of my Ward, I reached out and connected via social media (mostly via the private messaging features of FB and Twitter) with many of our inactive members and their non-member friends. Over time, many felt comfortable meeting with me and sharing their stories. Through hundreds of interviews and ‘listening to understand’, I was able to ‘see’ the church from the eyes of those on the outside. Many feel the church is their ‘spiritual home’ but feel uncomfortable attending for a variety of reasons such as work-in-progress testimonies, concerns about church history, feeling unworthy because of past or current sin, don't fit the cultural mold, role of women, are LGBTQ and/or feel God's LGBTQ childen should be more welcomed in our congregations, etc. This podcast is designed to 'Have a Conversation' about some of the more complicated issues in our church to help all of us 'listen, learn and love' so we can minister in a more effective way to all of Heavenly Father’s children. Most podcasts will be from our LDS LGBTQ friends to give them voice so we can better understand their road, touch their cross, learn from them, and minister to them as directed by President M. Russell Ballard when he said "We need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing. Certainly, we must do better than we have done in the past so that all members feel they have a spiritual home where their brothers and sisters love them and where they have a place to worship and serve the Lord(Nov 2017 BYU Devotional)." Some podcasts will be from LGBTQ allies sharing their experiences and how to be helpful. Other podcasts will be from guests talking about other complicated topics such as mental health, returning from a mission early, overcoming sin, and faith challenges. Are podcast are indexed by category at Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ *I will respond to your e-mails*

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 Episode 153: Tekulve Jackson-Vann and James Jones, RMs, Temple Workers, Black Latter-day Saints | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:30:16

My friends Tekulve and James share their journey as Black Latter-day Saints. We start with Tekulve sharing his recent experience as a Payson Temple worker where we was released (and then reinstated) because of his hair style (locs). Tekulve and James felt impressed to share this story as an important ‘inflection point’ where we can look inward as a people to see how we can do better with this FB post that went viral They share how they process our prior teachings about Black Latter-day Saints and their feelings of racism and imperfections of Church Leaders. They can talk about these subjects as deeply faithful and committed Latter-day Saints as they developed the ability to see the different between doctrine and culture and create space/perspective for imperfect leaders. They also have great spiritual maturity because of the need to develop a deep personal relationship with Heavenly Father and not always rely on the Institutional Church to provides answers to every question. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast to better understand our Black Latter-day Saints. The difficult road they walk and their unique gifts and contributions. Thank you Tekulve and James for being on the podcast. You two are great men, wonderful disciples, and needed members in our Restored Church. We need you to become the Church God wants us to become.

 Episode 152: Megan Lagerberg, Active LDS, Celebrating 12 Years of Marriage, Infertility | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:54:50

My friend Megan Lagerberg bravely shares her journey with infertility. It’s a difficult road emotionally, physically, and financially. Megan shares how she and her husband Todd have navigated a road of various unsuccessful treatments and their eventual success with IVF. After 3 years of treatments, they finally had a daughter (they now have two daughters). Megan shares her journey of feeling broken, depressed and attending church while working to overcome being angry with Heavenly Father. Megan’s story can help all of us overcome difficult things that are not our fault and tell us how to move forward in faith and hope.”

 Episode 151: David Doyle, Gay Latter-day Saint, RM, Stake Executive Secretary, Age 48 | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:30:39

My friend David Doyle calls in from the Tampa Florida area to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. It a beautiful and sometimes difficult story. David talks about the years before his mission, the years after his mission until age 40, and then coming out to his Ward/Stake leadership and family. David shares some of the wonderful things his Stake President has done to help LGBTQ members feel welcome. David also shares his positive interaction Elder Joaquin E. Costa (see David is one of my new heroes for all his is doing to Come Unto Christ and navigate a very difficult road. David has very helpful insights that will give our LGBTQ members hope and help all of us better minister to our LGBTQ members. At 1:17 David has some helpful insights into Temple Recommend Question #7. Thanks for sharing your journey David. You are a great man and I’m glad to have you on the podcast.

 Episode 150: Maggie Slighte, Convert, Trauma Survivor, Asexual | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:02:16

My friend Maggie Slighte (in her early 50’s) shares some of her life story growing up having been sexually abused at a very young age. About 6 years ago, Maggie found and joined the Church which has brought her great spiritual healing. She is now has a calling as a Temple and Family History consultant in her Ward. Maggie shares her journey with ‘complex PTSD’ including the therapy she continues to receive. She also talks about doing starting to do Temple work for her abuser (who has passed away). You can read more about Maggie at and You are awesome Maggie. You are a hero to me for surviving a brutal road and being willing to share your life experiences which helps us follow your example to heal and find hope. Thanks for being on the podcast.

 Episode 149: Kelleen Potter, LDS, Mother of 5 including 2 LGBTQ, Mayor of Heber City | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:15:51

My friend Kelleen Potter shares her journey of her oldest son coming out as gay at age 14 (about 8 years ago) and her third child coming out as transgender who identifies as female (about 4 years ago). Kelleen also has a son on a LDS mission and two younger daughters. Kelleen shares finding resources, therapists (including Lisa Hansen) and community with Mama Dragons. Kelleen talks about why both of her LGBT children have stepped away from the Church and why she is at peace with that decision. Kelleen shares the story of the Heber City Pride flags ( and how she feels that has helped her community. Thank you Allison Belnap for your efforts. We also discuss Ben Schilaty’s latest blog post ( about the importance of Pride Month. It think it is important to listen to our LGBTQ friends on why Pride Month is needed. Thank you for being on the podcast, Kelleen. You are awesome and you are doing great work.

 Episode 148: Briant Carter, Active LDS, Gay, In His 60’s, Single | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:06:27

My friend Briant Carter bravely shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint who has been navigating this road for approximately 50 years. Briant, who has served in Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies, has only recently been able to set aside the shame for being gay including feelings of not being equal, broken, and less worthy. He now knows how to love himself and see himself as a wonderful son of Heavenly Parents. It’s a remarkable journey. Briant’s story will be helpful for our younger LGBTQ members to feel at peace with their sexual orientation and to stay close with our Heavenly Parents as they make their way forward. I was also struck with the good men in Briant’s life that asked him to serve creating a sense of belonging that we all need and receiving a Priesthood Blessing from his Elder Quorum President in preparation for this podcast. You are a great man Briant. I felt a wonderful spirit as you shared your story. Thanks for your goodness, value, worth and courage to share some of your journey with us.

 Episode 147: Kurt Nielsen, Age 59, RM, Active LDS, Gay, Married, 3 Children | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:56:07

My friend Kurt Nielsen calls in from Yorba Linda California to bravely share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Kurt has come out to his dear wife Mary, three children and some trusted friends. Kurt has been following deep impressions his whole life and now feels called to share his story more broadly. Kurt shares his journey as a gay man growing up in Northern Utah, serving a mission, getting married and having a family. Unlike our younger LGBTQ members who have some support networks, Kurt really had very little (until the last few years) causing him to develop a deep relationship with Heavenly Father and the subsequent personal revelation he received. Listening to Kurt’s story will help our LGBTQ members (especially from the perspective of someone who had been on this road for several decades), families with LGBTQ members, and local leaders looking to minister to our LGBTQ members. Kurt tells the story of helping his own Stake President to see how this issue needed to be addressed and then it subsequently was with an excellent talk from his Stake President in Stake Conference where he asked members of the congregation to raise their hand if they had an LGBTQ person in their life (almost all hands were raised). Yes, this is a topic that affects all Latter-day Saints. Kurt talks about the wonderful work being done in the neighboring Long Beach East Stake. Thank you for joining us on the podcast and having the courage to share your story. You are a great man. Thank you for helping me be a better disciple of Christ.

 Episode 146: Heidi Tucker, LDS Author, Bringing Hope in the Struggle | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:11:57

My friend Heidi Tucker shares her story of having her world rocked when her wonderful son Austin come home from his mission early. Heidi had to go deep with Heavenly Father and the Savior to deal and come to peace with this difficult situation. This journey led to personal revelation to write a book called ‘Finding Hope in the Journey.’ Heidi’s book is designed to give hope when difficult things happen in our lives of which many are outside of our control. She shares principles and perspectives to give us all better tools. Heidi is now a frequent speaker at LDS events (over 100 events) and has written a second book called ‘Servie’s Song.’ Heidi’s books can be found at Deseret Book, Amazon or at her website You can also reach Heidi through this website. Thank you Heidi for bravely sharing some of your family story. The principals and perspective you teach as part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ are helping all of us have more hope, perspective and healing. Thanks for being on the podcast and all your great work!

 Episode 145: Darren Parry, Active LDS, Chairman Northwest Band of the Shoshone Nation | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:22:43

My former missionary companion shares the story of his people, the Northwest Band of the Shoshone Nation. This group of Native Americans lived in Utah when Brigham Young arrived and their tribal leader Sagwitch visited with Brigham Young. This group helped the first Mormon settlers in the Cache valley but then most of their tribe was massacred in the Bear River Massacre in 1863. This was the largest massacre of Native Americans in history (around 400-450). Sagwitch later converted to the LDS Church. Darren’s mission is to bring voice to his people. The good they did. The injustices they received. How they converted to the LDS Church. Darren has been working with LDS Church leaders (close friendship with Bishop Causse) and Utah Government Leaders (Governor Herbert and Lt Governor Cox) to raise funds for a permanent facility at the site of the massacre. You can learn more at or donate at Here is a recent article from the Deseret News: Thanks Darren for being an awesome senior companion in England in 1980 and, more importantly, the wonderful work you are doing for your people.

 Episode 144: Jana Spangler, Active LDS, Expert of Faith Transitions | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:39:04

My friend Jana Spangler, married mother of 3, talks about how to understand and minister to those in a faith transition and in a mix-faith marriage. Jana also talks about Fowler’s stages of faith a framework to help all of us better understand our differences and create common group. Jana, a Life Coach, shared these insights recently at North Star (a LDS LGBTQ support organization) and a Ward fireside. This will be a very helpful podcast for those looking for added insights and tools to minister to those in a faith crisis or transition, those in a faith transition and those who find themselves in a mixed-faith marriage. Jana can be reached at Thanks for being on the podcast Jana. Your work brings more understanding and helps keeps us together. You are awesome.

 Episode 143: Adam Durfee, BYU Professor, Age 30, Directs Y Digital at BYU | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:18:12

My friend Adam Durfee talks about his career in digital marketing including starting a digital ad agency, being named social media innovator of the year, and leaving his agency to teach at BYU to help students be better digital marketers. Adam also advises the Church on its digital marketing efforts. Yes, Adam (married) is a Professor at BYU at the age of 30. But most of the podcast is Adam sharing insights into our LGBTQ siblings, bringing voice to our talented women (his favorite topic), and his insights into the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Adam talks about how he creates an accepting culture in his class and on social media so that students (including those not in his class) know they can open up about difficult issues they are confronting. Thank you Adam for sharing some of your insights. You are a rare combination of great business skills and strong pastoral skills helping to lift so many. Thanks for being on the podcast. You can find Adam on Twitter, IG and Facebook @AdamDurfee

 Episode 142: Nelson Lee, Active LDS, RM, Solving OCD, Anxiety and Depression | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:12:06

Episode 142: Nelson Lee, Active LDS, RM, Solving OCD, Anxiety and Depression by Richard Ostler

 Episode 141: Allan and Kattie Mount, Mixed Faith Marriage, 4 Kids, Staying Close | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:21:52

My friends Allan and Kattie Mount share their journey of both being active LDS (both Barcelona Spain RMs) and then in Allan have a faith transition in 2017 that led him out of the church. In spite of his best efforts and wonder local leaders, Allan is no longer able to believe. Allan and Katie bravely share how they are navigating this space. Allan no longer attends on Sunday, but helps gets the kids ready for Church and participates with his EQ in service projects as he loves his church community. He is not trying to draw others out of the Church. Kattie serves at the Ward Primary President. Allan and Kattie started a podcast called ‘Marriage on a Tight Rope’ focused on mixed-faith marriages and how to keep those marriages together. See for more information. Thanks for being on the podcast Allan and Kattie. You two are awesome and doing a much needed work to keep families together.

 Episode 140: Roxanne Kennedy, Active LDS, Divorced from Porn Addict, Mother of 4, Author | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:16:18

My friend Roxanne Kennedy bravely shares her story of a 20 year marriage to a pornography addict (the marriage ended about 4 years ago). It’s a deeply touching story of how she turned to Heavenly Father for guidance and the atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and give hope. Showing great courage, vulnerability and acting on Heavenly Father’s impressions, she wrote a book called “Cutting Ties. Healing from Betrayal Trauma as the Spouse of an Addict.” See her web site to order the book and more info: As a former single ward Bishop who conducted 100s of interviews about porn, I wish I had heard from Roxanne before I was called to have better principals, spiritual insights and role of experts to help my ward members. I encourage parents of children, local leaders, spouses and people working to solve porn to listen to this podcast and read her book. I promise it will increase your insights and give you better tools to help people in this space. Thank you Roxanne for your courage to share your journey and insights. You are one of the most remarkable persons I have ever met. You voice is helping so many.

 Episode 139: Ken & Sue Hansen (married parents of 3, LDS) & their son Hank (22, gay, less active) | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:29:21

My dear friends Ken, Sue and Hank Hansen share their family story. Ken and Sue (a convert) have served the Church their whole lives outside of Utah (Illinois, Connecticut and New York). They talk about making their Wards loving and inclusive. Ken and Sue talk about the pain of the November 2015 Policy Statements and how that almost broke their testimonies but how they remain committed members. Ken and Sue now live in Utah and share the differences in Ward culture. Ken, Sue and Hank share the story of Hank coming out as gay at age 16 (a student at the University of Utah) and how they are navigating that road with Hank stepping away from active church attendance. They share principals to keep the family circle together even with different feelings about our Restored Church. Instead of ignoring these complex topics, there is open communication and discussion helping to create real connection and deeply family ties. There are no ‘elephants in the room’ at the Hansen home. Thanks to all three of you for being on the podcast. This podcast will be particularly helpful for active LDS parents who have adult children who have stepped away. Each of you are remarkable, thoughtful and deeply spiritual. Honored to have you on the podcast!


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