School For The Dogs Podcast - Dog Training & Animal Behavior with Annie Grossman  show

School For The Dogs Podcast - Dog Training & Animal Behavior with Annie Grossman

Summary: Annie Grossman of the NYC-based dog training center School For The Dogs answers training questions, confronts myths, geeks out on animal behavior, discusses pet trends and interviews industry experts. Annie encourages people to become literate in the basics of behavioral science in order to help their dogs and themselves. Tune in to learn how to use science-based methods to train dogs (and people) without pain, force, or coercion! Show notes: Have a dog or puppy training question? Visit or leave a voicemail at 917-414-2625 Support this podcast:

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 The words dog trainers use to describe their methods online: Anamarie Johnson, MA, CBCC-KA, on her survey of top US trainer's websites | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 4138

Anamarie Johnson, a former School For The Dogs trainer and current PhD candidate in Behavioral Neuroscience and Comparative Psychology at Arizona State University, returns to the podcast to discuss her research on language used by dog trainers on their websites. In addition to discussing some of her findings (like what it means when a trainer talks about "nature" and some of the stranger New Age-y language used  by aversive and R+ trainers alike), they talk about what's she's learned from working in shelters and more. Sign up for Anamarie's free presentation about her paper, August 8th at 3PM ET: Read the paper abstract: Training Dogs with Science or with Nature? An Exploration of Trainers’ Word Use, Gender, and Certification Across Dog-Training Methods Anamarie's previous visit to the podcast in 2018: Episode on cues and commands: --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 The woman behind Woof Cultr: Meet Mandy Boutelle | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2625

Hang out with any Positive Reinforcement dog trainer and they're bound to have a shirt in their wardrobe from the online store Woof Cultr: An apparel company that has a very niche market: Force-free trainers. Woof Cultr is the brainchild of Mandy Boutelle, who originally left a career as a hairstylist to become a certified dog walker in San Francisco. When she started doing off-leash group dog walks, she knew she had to learn more about dog training and behavior in order to manage her rowdy young pack. This led her to decide to become a dog trainer. At the start of the pandemic, however, she and her husband decided to move to Oregon and to spread the gospel of positive reinforcement dog training in a unique way: By printing bold-but-simple statements about training and behavior on t-shirts.  Links: DigiWoof | Web Design & Digital Marketing for Dog Trainers and Pet Pros --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 "It's not personal. It's just a dog thing." Sara Caron, SFTD CPT, on how training shifted her POV | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2568

Sara Caron had a leash-reactive dog, and as she started to research a quick fix for the problem, she threw out a wide net and tried lots of things. With guidance from this podcast, she began to see a way of dog training that made sense to her. When felt she had reached a plateau in her own solo study of animal behavior, she enrolled in the School For The Dogs Professional Course last year. She got another puppy shortly before starting the course which allowed her to see some remarkable differences in a dog raised with science-based/reward-based training methods versus one who was not. In this episode, Sara and Annie discuss some of the parts that have made the School For The Dogs Professional Course a life-changing experience for its graduates: The individualized attention, access to the SFTD community of trainers, classes, in-depth material, and the guest speakers. They also discuss the process of finding one’s place in the professional world of dog training. Apply to the Professional Course at: Applications for the next cohort are due June 30. Cohort begins Aug. 30.  Want to learn more? Book a free consult at: --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Meet Leeyah Wiseman SFTD-CPT, School For The Dogs' "Reels" maven and recent Professional Course graduate | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 3415

Leeyah Wiseman is a recent graduate of School For The Dogs Professional Course. If you follow us on TikTok or Instagram, you probably know her from the videos she does for SFTD. While she never thought of herself as a "dog person," she ended up adopting a puppy, George, and falling in love with him. But then she realized she had an issue on her hands: Separation anxiety. Her work figuring out how to deal with this issue in a way that felt right led her to decide to become a dog trainer. Annie and Leeyah discuss how she worked with her dog to improve his anxiety, what she got out of the Professional Course, and popular notions of what it means to "be" positive. Find Leeyah on Instagram @galdogtraining and @schoolforthedogs! Like this podcast? Please rate and review on iTunes!  Learn more about the Professional Course at Next cohort starts in late August!  ---- Spoil your smart pooch with a Brainy Box! Listen to the episode for a special discount code to our new monthly subscription box. --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Private socialization lessons for "Misfit" dogs of NYC: A conversation with two SFTD (human) clients | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 1973

The term "misfit" originally referred to people who were considered to be not great fit for their surroundings -- an ill fit. I miss fit. At School For The Dogs, we see it as our goal to help dogs -- whenever possible -- exist comfortably in an environment that may not be the best fit for them. New York City certainly isn't the best fit for many  individuals of any species, which is perhaps one reason why we have several programs specifically for Misfit dogs. In this episode, Annie talks to two School For The Dogs clients who have been attending a couple of unique types of private sessions: Dog Socialization and Misfits Day School. New York-based dog owners Alyssa and Jen talk about how these sessions have helped them help their "Misfit" dogs. Learn more at ***** NEW: Subscribe to Brainy Box, and you'll get a new enrichment toy and new treats every month. Get 15% off for a limited time. Code in episode! Learn more and sign up at Like this podcast? Subscribe, rate and review on iTunes! Follow us on Instagram @annie.grossman @schoolforthedogs --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 How to train "Look" (Rebroadcast of 12/4/18 episode) | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2260

Everyone is impressed by a dog whose eyes meets a human's gaze with magnet-like intensity on cue. Teaching a dog to "touch" his or her eyes to your eyes is a great exercise to practice no matter what the pooch's training level is. When teaching this attention-based behavior to a dog-- whether you use a word such as "Look" or the dog's name -- Annie suggests focusing on your training mechanics before jumping to setting criteria for your dog. In this episode, she clearly breaks down how to build a stellar "Look" cue from scratch, in just six quick steps, using only sixty tiny treats. Notes: Treat suggestions - Tricky Trainers (and other brands that make these pencil-eraser sized morsels) can be broken up into at least four pieces, meaning you'll go through only 15 treats in your session: Lamb lung breaks up into neat pieces without getting greasy or crumbly: Dogs and presidents: "Look For The Silver Lining" ukulele cover by Renei Yarrow: Partial Transcript: **music** Annie: Hello, everyone. Thank you for listening. Today I’m going to walk you through what I call the Invisible Triangle method of teaching “look.” I think look is a really excellent thing to teach any dog, any age some people call it “watch me” or “attention,” whatever you want to call it, basically you’re teaching your dog to connect their eyes to your eyes on whatever cue you give. And of course that cue, today we’re going to use “look” you could be using their name,  you could say “eyes,”  you could say “bubblegum babaganoush.,”  it doesn't matter but you are to give it some kind of cue. Of course, if you don’t give it a cue and you just teach them that locking eyes with your eyes is always a good thing that certainly not a bad thing to teach either. I generally think that everything we train our dogs to do, pretty much, comes down to targeting- targeting being teaching them to touch one thing to another. Of course, pretty much the first thing I teach every dog I work with is to hand-nose target so to touch their nose to my fingers, to my hand or to touch their nose to an object. And while there are lots of reasons I like to teach this specific exercise, the big reason is that I think of it as a building block exercise that you can use to teach lots of different things because really what you’re teaching is if you touch X to Y then good thing happens and basically everything you’re ever going to train your dog comes down to something that can fit into that equation. Sit is if if you touch butt to ground. Down is if you touch body to the ground.  Go to the crate, well, that's if I touch body to crate. And I think that teaching look is really just the same thing except that if I touch my eyes to my human eyes good thing happens . And like I just said, certainly if that becomes just the default behavior, it's never going to be a bad thing since if your dog locks eyes with you, you certainly have your dog's attention and that's a great starting place for getting your dog to do whatever it is you want or need him or her to do... Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Elise Mac Adam, SFTD CPT, on how the grief of rehoming a dog led her to the School For The Dogs Professional Course | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2518

Elise Mac Adam and Annie first met in 2002 when Annie wrote up Elise's engagement announcement for her column in The New York Observer. Both of them were terrier lovers, writers, and native Manhattanites: They became fast friends. When Annie and Kate first started School For The Dogs in 2011 and running classes out of Annie's Manhattan living room, Elise and her dogs were among their first clients. Elise, her sons, and her husband, have worked with half a dozen of School For The Dogs trainers over the last decade, with three of their dogs. She has, overall, clocked more sessions than any other single client. Eventually, she had to make the difficult decision to rehome one of her terriers. She and Annie discuss how rehoming a dog can feel like both a success and failure at the same time, and the silver lining of this difficult experience: It led her to decide to enroll in the School For The Dogs Professional Course.  Apply to the Professional Course at Next cohort begins August 31.  Episodes featuring other graduates: --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 An academic study of corgi butts on the Internet (and other animal content online): Univ. of Alabama's Jessica Maddox on Ukrainian kittens, cloned influencers, and the neoliberal "economy of cute" | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 3279

Jessica Maddox, an assistant professor of digital media at the University of Alabama, is the author of the forthcoming book The Internet Is For Cats: How Animal Images Shape Our Digital Lives. Her research has largely involved looking at how people share and consume photos of animals on the Internet. She and Annie discuss a variety of topics relating to social media pets. Maddox offers an academic take on why people create Instagram accounts for their pets, are drawn to stories about Ukrainian rescue cats, and more. What does Youtube have to say about the practice of tying puppies to train tracks so that someone can post a video of their rescue? Why do some brands prefer to work with pet influencers over human ones? Are we living in a new era of anthropomorphizing our pets in a non-private arena, or is this just a new iteration of an age-old practice? And: Is it possible to breed an NFT cat? Maddox addresses these questions, and more.   The secret life of pet Instagram accounts: Joy, resistance, and commodification in the Internet’s cute economy More about Jessica Maddox The Internet Is For Cats: How Animal Images Shape Our Digital Lives Why the Internet Is Obsessed With the Cats and Dogs of Ukraine Crypto Kitties Instagram accounts mentioned:  @lolabarksdale @wander_with_willow @thecalfvet @drhunterfinn Follow School For The Dogs on Instagram:  @schoolforthedogs Follow Annie on Instagram:  @annie.grossman --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Happy Birthday Karen Pryor! Dr. Julie Vargas, daughter of B.F. Skinner, on the importance of this nonagenarian's work in the field of positive reinforcement-based animal training | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 1614

Karen Pryor turns ninety on May 14th! Annie is celebrating today and... plotting continued celebrations on this podcast in the coming year.  If you're a Karen Pryor fan, join the celebration! If you're not, you'll enjoy learning why she is so worthy of it. In this episode, Annie interviews BF Skinner Foundation president Dr. Julie Vargas, about the importance of this incredible scientist, writer and entrepreneur who, over the last thirty years, has done more than probably anyone else alive to help show people how we can use operant conditioning and secondary reinforcers to train dogs with rewards: aka, clicker training.  When her husband bought Sea Life Park in the 1960s, Pryor was tasked with training the dolphins to perform. She got her hands on a paper written by students who were working in BF Skinner's Harvard lab, and it outlined the basics of operant conditioning and how to use a secondary reinforcer, like a whistle, to pinpoint the moment a desired behavior occurred. It further described how to then use successive approximations to shape the behavior using reinforcement. She  took what she had learned about dolphins and wrote a book about about using positive reinforcement in everyday life: Don't Shoot The Dog!, then started doing seminars on how to use a clicker with dogs in the 1990s. In the 2000s, she started running Clicker Expo, a conference which brings the worlds best positive-reinforcement trainers together several times a year, and began training dog trainers through her Karen Pryor Academy.  Follow us on Instagram, @schoolforthedogs, where we are giving away her book Reaching The Animal Mind and a signed clicker this weekend.  Learn more about Dr. Vargas: Learn more about Karen Pryor: Learn more about the BF Skinner Foundation: Books:  Don't Shoot The Dog! Reaching The Animal Mind --- Partial Transcript: Annie: Tomorrow May 14th marks the birthday of Karen Pryor. And this is not any birthday she's having tomorrow. She's turning 90. She has done so much with those years, so much that has benefited the lives of so many dogs and so many people through her work. Her work as a scientist, as a writer, as an animal trainer, an educator, and an entrepreneur. She started the Karen Pryor Academy, which I attended in 2010, really going in knowing nothing about the world of positive reinforcement dog training. I just thought being a dog trainer sounded like a great career, sign me up. There is no way I had any idea what a life changing experience it would be doing that six month program, because it really shifted the way that I see the world and the way that we treat so many behavior problems in our homes, in our society, in ways that don't make a lot of sense, at least when seen through the prism of what we know about behavioral science Full Transcript at   --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 "We don't expect this sort of robotic, one way dictatorship in other relationships..." Meet Dogminded's Jenny Efimova, KPA CTP | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 3086

Before she became a dog trainer, Jenny Efimova was working human trauma survivors for a living. Her job involved being empathetic and meeting people where they were. It wasn't immediately obvious to her that a lot of the lessons she'd learned at work could be applied to someone in her home who was suffering: Her dog. Her young rescue, Larkin, was increasingly afraid to go out on walks in her neighborhood. The first professionals she worked with told her she was the issue: She wasn't “confident” enough with her puppy, and he thought he was the boss.  It didn't feel right to her, and the suggested methods didn't work. In fact, they felt like they were making matters worse. Then she started working with a trainer who explained how to use positive reinforcement in training, and it was a behavioral game changer for her and her dog Larkin. This led her to become a certified dog trainer herself, through the Karen Pryor Academy. Today she trains online and in Brookline, MA. She also runs an Instagram account @dogminded. Annie and Jenny discuss the challenges that come with cultural expectations of how both dogs and dog owners should behave. They confront the popular idea that if you are not a stern leader with your dog, you are spoiling them, and consider whether there has been any cultural shift in changing the conversation about what it means to be a compassionate dog owner. They also discuss how interspecies relationships and examining our expectations of our pets can help us learn to be more humane and compassionate in general. Learn more about Jenny at: Follow Jenny on Instagram: @dogminded Follow School For The Dogs @schoolforthedogs  --- Partial Transcript: Jenny Efimova: We don't expect this sort of robotic one way dictatorship in other relationships, but with dogs, for some reason, there's this expectation that there are these behavioral outputs, and that they have to do everything we say, and they have to behave in certain ways. And that any behavior that is inconvenient or troublesome for us has to be eliminated. And that there's not room to say, Hey, this is actually a sentient being. I'm gonna treat their behavior with the same courtesy I would treat the behavior of anybody else. So it's this kind of bizarre dynamic which isn't actually natural for a lot of people, because all the people I work with love their dogs tremendously. We know that there's research showing that people who lose their pets often grieve those losses more than they grieve losses of people in their lives, right? The relationships people have with their dogs and their pets are profound. We currently, I think, don't have the language and the norms in our culture to really honor that. And I think dog training as a whole falls really behind in that regard. Because what people really want is to have a joyful relationship with their dog. And at this point, I think a positive reinforcement based approach is what allows that to happen in the most compassionate way. [music] Annie: Jenny I'm so eager to talk to you, happy to have you on the podcast. I have followed you on Instagram for quite a while, and I feel like I kind of know you in an Instagram way. And I'd like to know you in a real person way. But this is the interim, I guess. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Live From New York, It's... Positive Reinforcement Dog Training! Saturday Night Live set designer Ken MacLeod on becoming a professional dog trainer | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2780

In his work as a set designer, Saturday Night Life staffer Ken MacLeod had seen many well-trained dogs, and had even done commercial work with his own Jack Russell, Mac. But then he got a dog named Scooter and he realized that every dog has different needs. This realization led him to decide he wanted to become a certified dog trainer. Today, he splits his time: Part of every month, he can be found building sets for SNL, and the rest of the time, he is training out of his Hoboken, NJ-based studio, My Positive Pup. He talks to Annie about getting certified,  the emotional nature of working with dog owners, behavior lessons learned learned on the ski slopes, and how the old saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" can be true for both people and dogs. Learn more about My Positive Pup at Learn more about L.E.G.S.® Applied Ethology Family Dog Mediation® Professional Course ( Learn more about the Karen Pryor Academy at --- Partial Transcript: Annie: Okay. Ken, why don't you just go ahead and introduce yourself and your business and we can, we can go from there. Ken MacLeod: Cool. My name is Ken MacLeod. I have a dog training company in Hoboken, New Jersey called My Positive Pup. You can find us on the web at I am a positive reinforcement dog trainer, obviously with that name. And I also work in the film industry at Saturday Night Live. And, to say the least, both of them are pretty crazy businesses. Annie: So let's talk about your, what would you say, bifurcated career, which came first? Well, and actually also, are you originally from New Jersey? Where are you from originally? Ken: I'm originally from Massachusetts. I moved down to New Jersey when I was a sophomore in high school, became a huge Springsteen fan who couldn't. And then went to college to Penn State and came out and wanted to go into the film industry. I really didn't have a lot of interest in dogs until I met my wife, I guess, 14 years ago. And she had a dog named Mac who is a Parsons Jack Russell who I completely fell in love with. And everything kind of started from there. I had trained Mac to be in a couple commercials, ‘cause I worked in the commercial industry. And it all kind of, you know, snowballed from that. Annie: You were training him for commercials. Were you doing it with any guidance or just by feeling? Ken: Like, just like he'd have little parts in a commercial, like, pick a newspaper up and run to the door. Go to the couch and bark at somebody. And it wasn't like I was doing this for work. It's just that Mac was really, really good at it. And at that time Parsons Jack Russells were very, very popular. So in being in the film industry and around people, both my wife and I, we just knew producers and said, Hey, would Mac want to be in it? Would Mac, you know, would it be okay if you had Mac in this and it'd be like, sure, no problem at all. So it kind of started that way accidentally, I guess. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 You can say "hi" to my dog, but DON'T BE A DICK ABOUT IT! How well-intentioned people make dogs anxious on the street (and how you can help them be better dog lovers) | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 1323

Oftentimes, the toughest thing about training dogs is dealing with people. Strangers out in public, however well-intentioned, can be major obstacles to a fruitful training session, further complicating things in what is most likely already a high-pressure environment for your dog. Annie feels for dogs who are basically bullied (often unintentionally) by strangers, or even their own owners, during interspecies greetings.  If people who love dogs so often make them uncomfortable without meaning to, is it fair to judge people by how they relate to their dogs? Maybe not. Annie reads aloud from an article that she wrote for the Boston Globe about how animal welfare is relative and not absolute. (Stay until the end for a rather shocking bit of trivia about a certain genocidal dictator). Episode includes a special Earth Day offer: a coupon code (good this weekend only) for 20% off the REVOL crate by Diggs.  --- "Animal welfare is a matter of perspective" - Boston Globe article by Annie Grossman Related episodes Episode 29: A modern dog owner's guide to sidewalk leash greetings Episode 41 | New "Diggs" for your dog: Zel Crampton's dog crate revolution --- Partial Transcript: Annie: So, something that drives me crazy is when I'm on the street training with Poppy, giving her treats, and someone else walks by with their dog, and their dog seems interested in saying hi, and I'm working keeping Poppy's focus on me. Not because she has a problem or because she's reactive, just because we're working. And then the other person who's just standing there with their dog says like, Oh, it's fine, my dog's friendly. As if what I'm doing has anything to do with whether or not their dog is friendly or not. And it's always frustrating to think about what to say in these situations. I usually say something like, Oh, we're just doing some training or, oh, my dog's friendly too. Today, I had a thought of what could be said in those situations. In French, there's a term called L’esprit de l’escalier, which is like, when you think of the perfect thing to say after something is over. I thought if someone says to me, Oh, it's okay, my dog is friendly. I could just turn around and say, oh yeah, well I’M NOT! Would probably make both them and their dog leave you alone. [music] Hello. Thank you for being here. I am Annie Grossman, owner and co-founder of School For The Dogs at East 7th street. You can sometimes find me there behind the desk. I curate our retail store, which is also online at If you don't know about School For The Dogs, check us out. We do so much great training, both in New York City and virtually. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Bad vegans, coercion & canine immortality: What sociopaths can teach us about dog training | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 1227

The Netflix docu-series Bad Vegan is about the owner of a raw food restaurant (which happened to be located on Annie's street) who was conned out of millions of dollars by a narcissistic sociopath who claimed he could make her dog immortal. The story leads Annie to think aloud about how genius manipulators use coercion, punishment and classical conditioning in order to get the behaviors they want from their victims.  While many of their techniques do not constitute “good” dog training, we can draw parallels between how they create positive associations in others to make themselves appear trustworthy. Can we do the same to build our dogs’ confidence? Also: Should we trust our pets to be good judges of character in potential partners? Annie offers her answer.  ---  Bad Vegan on Netflix  Inventing Anna on Netflix  Related Podcast Episodes:  Episode 84 | Sociopaths as dog trainers, Negative Reinforcement at NXIVM & how to train humans to wear masks  Episode 104 | Dog training with Mary Poppins, Professor Harold Hill and Little Orphan Annie Episode 123 | A conversation with Terra Newell (former groomer, owner of a mini Aussie) about killing her stepfather… and dogs --- Partial Transcript: Annie: So I just watched the Netflix docu-series ‘Bad Vegan,’ which is about the downfall of a restaurant called Pure Food and Wine. And this story, I thought, well, this is a show I have to watch for a couple reasons. One, Pure Food and Wine is on my block. Like it's just around the corner from me. I could get there without crossing a street. And I never dined there very much or went to its outpost, which was called One Lucky Duck, because it was very expensive. And I always sort of thought one day when I make a lot more money, I will eat here all the time. But then it closed. They specialized in this really interesting and tasty, raw vegan food, like gourmet vegan food, but not just vegan, but uncooked. And the couple times I did go, it was pretty fabulous. I was also interested cause the story is specifically about the owner Sarma Melngailis. I actually interviewed her and her former business and romantic partner, Matthew Kenney, 15 or so years ago when I was writing about restaurants for the New York Post. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

 Calm, confidence, love & joy: How Will + Jada Pinkett Smith helped create The Dog Whisperer | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2182

Did you know that The Dog Whisperer and Jada Pinkett Smiths are longtime best friends? Two weeks ago, Will Smith calmly and confidently sauntered up on to the stage of the Oscars and slapped someone who said something he didn't like. His vibe and techniques struck Annie as a bit Dog Whisper-y. Maybe that's because she was aware that Cesar Millan, aka The Dog Whisperer, was supposedly made famous in part early on because of his connection to a small handful of movie stars, among them, the Smiths. Annie unearths some old Red Table Talk recordings of The Dog Whisperer revealing his origin story to Jada and her mother,. She also reads from a 7-year-old Cesars Way blog post where Jada talks about how the dog training lessons she learned from Cesar has helped her marriage.  Cesar Millan on Red Table Talk with Jada Pinkett Smith and Gammy (Adrienne Banfield-Norris) in 2018 Cesar’s Way article from 2015: Jada Pinkett Smith Takes The Lead --- Partial Transcript: Annie: Have you ever disliked a celebrity purely by proxy? I'm not telling you that there's a celebrity, I've maybe long disliked by association. I'm just asking you. Have you ever disliked a celebrity because of that celebrity's association with another celebrity? Where one of these celebrities might be in a completely different field than the other celebrity? Because there's this one celebrity who has been in the news a lot in the last week. And I don't think I need to tell you how I feel about this person. But I do wanna tell you that this person has probably had a larger impact on the field of dog training than one might realize, on dog training as it exists in the mainstream today. And I wanted to also maybe propose the argument that he has caused a lot more harm to dogs than he's ever caused to people, if only secondarily, if not also in practice. I don't know. Purely because this one person's celebrity helped create the celebrity we know as Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer. Now, if you've ever watched The Dog Whisperer, you probably would guess that someone who is an acolyte of Cesar Millan might be very forceful, might feel that they need to be the alpha, as they say, lead the pack, be the protector, be the leader and not take not take lip from anyone. And someone who might feel fine about using physical force, without considering the unintended consequences or fallout of using punishment, be it physical or otherwise, he'd be perhaps someone like Will Smith. Will Smith and his wife Jada Pinkett Smith are long time friends of Cesar Millan’s. And their celebrity is part of what helped him reach such heights in popular culture. I started thinking about this and wanted to do an episode on this and started to look online. I knew that he had worked with Cesar. I mean, I knew that Cesar had worked with Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith's dog. So I thought maybe I could find clips of him giving the kind of advice that, were you'd apply it to humans, would lead you to slap people in the face. Sometimes Cesar Millan is so often talking about humans and the human behavior and energy, and how to be an alpha, and all these kinds of things that make me think of someone actually kind of like Will Smith. Someone who is charismatic and seems like they're beaming love and energy and confidence, but also fine using force. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:

  Best Pet Ever: Katya Lidsky, host of The Animal That Changed You, on writing love letters to her dying dog. Also: Jonathan Safran Foer's case for eating... dogs. | File Type: audio/x-m4a | Duration: 2818

Annie interviews Katya Lidsky, a writer, podcaster and frequent dog fosterer who lives in Austin, TX. She recently started a podcast called The Animal That Changed You, and interviewed Annie about an animal that changed her (head over and check out the episode! Katya, who refers to herself as a "soft core" animal activist, tells Annie about loving and losing a dog who helped her heal from her longtime struggle with an eating disorder. In her dog Ophelia's final days, Katya wrote her love letters daily. Annie lends her some advice on introducing a foster dog to her current dog, and the two discuss their thoughts on how vegetarianism relates to being a dog lover -- Katya doesn't eat meat, but Annie does and... has complicated feelings about that fact.  That point in their conversation moved Annie to share a section from the 2010 book by Jonathan Safran Foer Eating Animals: The Case For Eating Dogs.  Learn more about Katya at Find our on-demand courses (including Body Language Basics) at Get Safran Foer's Eating Animals at Rate, review and subscribe to this podcast at Book a session with us at  --- Partial Transcript: Annie: So I recently started a series on School For The Dogs Podcast that is really just an excuse to talk to interesting people about their interesting pets and inspired in part by Betty White, who had a show in the seventies called The Pet Set, where she basically just got her famous friends to go on TV with her to talk about their pets. And I was pleased to see that I'm not the only person who's had this clearly genius idea because shortly after I started this series, I got an email with a subject line, The Animal That Changed You, and it was from Katya Litsky, who is joining me right now. Katya, thank you for being here. You are the host of the podcast, The Animal That Changed You. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Katya Lidsky: Oh gosh. I like the way you put – I like any sentence that says Betty White in it at all, but it's a podcast about talking to extraordinary people about the extraordinary animal or animals who have changed their lives. I look forward to having you on there Annie. And you know, it's kind of like a community for people who cannot watch what happens to a horse in a war scene in a movie, but have no problem seeing what happens to the human on the horse. Even if the horse tramples that human. That's fair game, but please spare the animal. And I have this theory that if we can identify with something, if we can identify as being animal lovers, I think we can grow into it. And even if we grow 2% more, that is really good for animals and for people, for everyone involved. So I'm all about, you know, if you love an animal, you have a space in that community. Annie: I know that you describe yourself on your website as a self-described, or you call yourself a self-described softcore animal activist. Full Transcript at --- Send in a voice message: Support this podcast:


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