Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point

Interview with author Chris Carter explores the scientific evidence for the survival of consciousness. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with Chris Carter author of, Science and the Afterlife Experience: Evidence for the Immortality ...

Interview with chaos theory pioneer Dr. Ralph Abraham offers new insights into how a chaotic model of consciousness might work. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with Dr. Ralph Abraham.  During the interview Abraham discusses how chaos theory might impact how we think about consciousness: Alex Tsakiris:   Chaos theory presents a lot of problems for science when it comes to measurement, which is really the nuts-and-bolts of science. Ralph Abraham:  Right. In other words, if you know the state of the world exactly, well almost exactly, with a slight error, then you cannot make a long-term predictions. So we don’t know about global climate warming, for example. The basis of these mathematical models are chaotic in this technical sense.  So, conceivably the flap of a butterfly wing could make a huge difference in the prediction of the model long-term. Now as we take this kind of mathematical model for complex systems upstairs into the realm of consciousness, then obviously consciousness has a lot of parts. For one thing, if you think of the individual consciousness of six billion people on the planet being somehow netted together through communication by reading, writing, cell phones, the internet, etc. into a complex system, then obviously, that complex system is going to have very chaotic behavior. Dr. Ralph Abraham's Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (43 min.)

Interview with Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris examines the origins of the show and lessons learned. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for look back at 200 episodes to Skeptiko.  During the interview Tsakiris discusses what he's discovered about other skeptical podcasts: Tim:   There’s Skeptiko and you’re up against all of the skeptic shows: The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe, Skepticality, Skeptoid… Alex Tsakiris:   Not really, Tim. Those are like two different universes. I came into this from the outside and assumed that these two groups would fit together. If The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe and Skepticality and Skeptoid and all the rest of them are talking about parapsychology, although it be in a disparaging way, then naturally they’re going to want to dialogue with the same researchers I wanted to talk to. I was naïve enough to think that they actually did. What I’ve found is that they don’t. What the Skeptics really want is to be left in their little island over there, in their little world, so they can talk about these things among themselves. Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (59 min.) Read It: Today we have a special episode of Skeptiko. I have with me and I’ll soon be turning the mike over to Tim #$%, who is a long-time friend of mine and a long-time friend of Skeptiko. A guy who has literally listened to, I think, every show that I’ve produced. What makes this particularly interesting, other than I have this close personal relationship with Tim, is that Tim is a skeptic and he remains a skeptic. I love the fact that he’s stayed with the show, stayed with the material, has battled it out, and has remained a skeptic. So I think when Tim proposed the idea of doing an interview about Skeptiko, something I’ve been resistant to do, the more I thought about it the more I thought, ‘What more perfect person to conduct that interview than someone who’s deeply engaged in the show and remains opposed to a lot of the ideas. And that true spirit of sorting out the data and skepticism?’ I can now turn the mike over to Tim. Tim:   Thank you, Alex. And thank you very much, honestly, for agreeing to do this. You and I had a bit of a back-and-forth on whether or not you thought this was a good idea but I do want to do this, primarily in my mind as a celebration of the fact that you’ve reached this milestone of 200 shows. So if you’ll look back at Skeptiko, it started January 7, 2007 and you introduced it with how controversial science is debated. So my idea for the next few minutes is to talk about the show. I’m hoping we can stay out of the topics of the show. We may bleed into that but I’m curious to get started with how the show got started. Take us back to 2007. Alex Tsakiris:   Well, I started out as a listener. I’ve always been very interested in not only these topics but in general in the idea that I can learn. I can get better. I can improve by absorbing knowledge from other people. So I was a listener first, and I became quite interested in the whole idea of parapsychology and paranormal phenomena just at a very casual level, like anyone who watches a television program on the topic. That led me to Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, who is guest #1 of Skeptiko. The conversation I had with Rupert was along the lines of, “Hey, this is interesting. Why isn’t anyone talking about this in a serious way, interviewing these researchers and analyzing what they have to say, versus what people who oppose them have to say?” He said, “I don’t know.” I said, “We ought to make that happen and I’m willing to fund this. Let’s hire somebody to go do this show.” That was really how it started, is I was going to fund a show because I’m not a producer of any sort, and I’m not a radio guy or anything like that. Well, we went down that path and I asked Rupert for suggestions of who might be good for the show. That kind of played out and it’s like so many things you hear about, you know?

Interview with Ancient Aliens Debunked filmmaker Chris White who swamps the Ancient Alien theories with science, but relies on Biblical inerrancy for core beliefs. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with Chris White, creator of the popular documentary film, Ancient Aliens Debunked.  During the interview White discusses the film as well as his controversial conservative Christian beliefs: Alex Tsakiris: Here’s what Ancient Aliens, the TV show says is one of the most compelling bits of evidence for the Ancient Alien proposition, and that’s the site of Pumapunku and the ruins there.  That’s where you start the film.  So, take us through Pumapunku, and how that’s debunked. Chris White:   The main thing that the Ancient Astronaut theory proponents suggest is that these angles are too perfect and the stone-cutting is too amazing to be anything that any ancient peoples could have done. We could talk about what the site actually was and so on but the main thing is that the stonemasonry there at Pumapunku is not difficult to do. There’s lots of things that they say are true about Pumapunku that are not. For example, they say that these stones are granite and diorite and therefore they’re too hard. Not only is that not true if they were granite or diorite but they’re not granite or diorite. They’re red sandstone and ambercite. They are not as heavy as they say they are and they’re not as in the right-angles as they say they are. Later, Mr. White offers opinions on the limitations of Islam and Buddhism, and the primacy of Christianity: Chris White:  In Islam they have a lot of rules that say, “Give to the poor. Fast. Be nice to people.” Those are rules that they’re following because of threat of whatever. Alex Tsakiris:   You can’t generalize like that, Chris. Chris White:  I think it’s dangerous when we say, “Oh, we know that these people are just as good.” I think you can analyze—not their personality -- I’m not talking about whether they’re good or not but you can analyze the very tenants of what they’re trying to do. And I think very few times do people understand Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam or any of these things… Alex Tsakiris:   Chris, how many Buddhist monks have you met? How many Buddhist monks have you encountered and really sat down and experienced, and talked to? Chris White:   It’s really not about the individual; it’s about what they are claiming that any individual would claim… Alex Tsakiris:   How is it not about the individual? It’s only about the individual. Chris White:   Because nobody has reached the very thing that they need which is freedom from Nirvana or getting to Nirvana. Show me a Buddhist that would claim that right now. Everybody’s saying, “Oh well, the suffering is caused by tanha.” Tanha is sin. It’s our desires to do bad things that we don’t want to do. That’s the reason that any Buddhist is trying to do the ascetic practices. They try to eat less rice, go onto a hill, do whatever because they’re trying to defeat the innate desire to sin. Now, that’s their path. If you understand that they’re hoping that one day, if they do all the right meditations and they eat the less food and they give away enough possessions and they’re nice enough to people, it will happen and they will be diminished in their level of desiring to sin. That’s Buddhism. Ancient Aliens Debunked Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (80 min.) Read It: Today we welcome filmmaker, radio host, and podcaster, Chris White to Skeptiko. Chris’ latest documentary, Ancient Aliens Debunked, has caused quite a stir among Ancient Alien believers, as you might expect, as well as skeptics and even Evangelical Christians, as Chris himself is quite public about being a Conservative Christian. There’s a lot here to unpack and Chris, I’m really glad that you’re joining me today on Skeptiko to do just that. Welcome. Chris White:   It’s great to be here, Alex.

Interview with Blogger and UFO researcher Mike Clelland about reports of contact with alien consciousness. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with Mike Clelland, host of the Hidden Experience Podcast.  During the interview Clelland discusses various account of contact with alien consciousness: Alex Tsakiris:  I look at the UFO phenomena and I am challenged to either fit it into that near-death experience, mystical/spiritual framework, or say that it lies outside of that framework. So are the aliens God?  Mike Clelland:   I’m sure you could cherry-pick the reports and you could come up with that answer that they are God. In these UFO narratives people come back and they tell what they experienced and so one person in one narrative asked the little gray aliens, “Are you Angels?” And the gray aliens reply, “Yes. But not in the way you think of Angels.” Which is an interesting answer.  In another report someone asks the gray aliens, “Did God create the universe?” And the aliens reply, “No. God is creating the universe moment-by-moment.” Alex Tsakiris:   That gets back to the most challenging part of all that which is we don’t understand the nature of that extended consciousness beyond our physical level, so whenever we talk about theatre, then is it theatre to us? Or is it theatre to them? Mike Clelland: I feel like I’m constantly confronted with—and the phrase I will use is “something’s going on behind the curtain.” I’m implying that there’s this other dimensional realm that “they,” these aliens, can access that we can barely access. Maybe we can access it through death; maybe we can access it through psychedelics. Maybe we can access it through intense meditation or through dream realms.  We can access that realm fleetingly. Mike Clelland's Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (82 min.) Read It: Today we welcome Mike Clelland to Skeptiko. In addition to being a pretty amazing illustrator, Mike is also a blogger and podcaster at www.hiddenexperience.blogspot.com where he tackles a number of paranormal topics mainly centered around alien contact. Now I know that can be a challenging topic for those who haven’t really studied the phenomena very much, but I’m really hoping that in this Skeptiko interview we can jump past all that first-level skeptical silliness because it’s really not that interesting. If you think all this stuff is swamp gas and ball lightning  then more power to you but that’s not really what we’re going to talk about today. What I’m hoping to get into with Mike is questions about this other form of consciousness that many, many folks he’s been coming in contact with and hopefully trying to tie that back to so many of the topics that we’ve talked about here on Skeptiko, be it remote viewing or out-of-body experience or near-death experience, lucid dreaming, psychedelics, all the rest. So with that rather long introduction, Mike, welcome to Skeptiko. Thanks for coming on. Mike Clelland:   Thanks for having me. Alex Tsakiris:   I’m really excited to talk to you because I’ve been listening to so many of your interviews and not just on a need to be informed for the show but because they’re great. I really like them; you have a great way on the mike. It’s very natural, very personable, and very personal. You come through with a lot of your own personal information that doesn’t get in the way but just enhances the experience. And of course, you have a lot of great guests. It’s really a delight to listen to and it’s a real joy to have you on the show. Mike Clelland:   Great, thanks. The genesis of the whole podcasting series has been—and I’m not exaggerating and I repeat this over and over again—it’s been therapy for me. It’s been a form of self-therapy. I feel like I’m stepping into waters that are pretty murky and pretty deep and in a way venturing into the unknown as far as I try to sort of untangle some of these threads.

Interview with Dr. Diane Powell about her book, The ESP Enigma, and why research into extended human consciousness remains taboo.  Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with neuroscientist, psychiatrist and author Dr. Diane Powell about her book, The ESP Enigma: The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena.  During the interview Powell discusses why psychic abilities are not accepted by mainstream science: Alex Tsakiris: My opinion is that if you’re waiting for the paradigm shift, if you’re waiting for science to roll over and say, “Uncle. We admit it. This phenomenon is obvious; it’s self-evident,” it’s not going to happen.  What do you think? Dr. Diane Powell:   I agree and I think that, as I said, it is counterproductive to think that way. I think that people close their minds to considering new possibilities. I mean, like I said, in the early 1900’s when people thought that all of the physics had been discovered there was this whole other world out there. I believe that’s true for consciousness. I think we’re just now starting to have more and more receptivity to studying that. But still, trying to understand—I think human consciousness is just too vast a topic and you’re not going to be able to understand it with conventional materialistic science. I mean, that’s only one tool in trying to obtain knowledge. Dr. Diane Powell's Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (40 min.) Read It: SourceURL:file://localhost/Users/alex/Downloads/Skeptiko-Diane-Powell-Interview-edited.rtf Today we welcome Dr. Diane Powell to Skeptiko. Diane has an amazing background, stellar credentials, Johns Hopkins trained neuroscientist, MD in psychiatry from Johns Hopkins, as well. Faculty position at Harvard Medical School.  Salk Institute right here in my backyard in La Jolla. I mean, the credentials go on and on. She’s also written a book titled, The ESP Enigma. Dr. Powell, thank you so much for joining me and welcome to Skeptiko. Dr. Diane Powell:   Thank you. It’s a pleasure. Alex Tsakiris:   Well, I had a chance the other day to take a look at your excellent website at www.dianehennacypowell.com and I was really amazed. So many of the topics you cover are right up our alley here at Skeptiko, so I’m really looking forward to this dialogue. You teed up so many questions, more questions than I can possibly get to, so I hardly know where to begin. Dr. Diane Powell:   I want to get people to think. That’s my mission. Alex Tsakiris:   Great. You know, that I guess was one of my first questions because you do have such a stellar background. I had to wonder while I was reading this, gee, Diane, why can’t you just play nice with the other neuroscientists? Why do you have to go off and do this ESP thing and basically claim that the emperor has no clothes like you do? Hasn’t that been a rather difficult path for you to follow? Dr. Diane Powell:   It has been a difficult path and unfortunately it’s not a path that’s embraced by academia. I’m somebody who grew up with academia in my blood. My father was a professor. He started out as a mathematician and geneticist. He ended up as a cardiovascular physiologist working as the head of the artificial heart program at Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, Ohio. So I grew up in a scientific family. One of my brothers is a theoretical physicist whose expertise is artificial intelligence. Coming from this family, I’m used to talking about challenging questions and searching for the truth, like a detective. That’s how I grew up. When I started to see holes in the model that neuroscientists had, I started to think, ‘Okay, how can we explain those holes? How can we explain those mysteries?’ I found  that there so many things that were not explained and yet people were hanging onto that model and pouring lots of research dollars into continuing to find yet another neurotransmitter and another receptor for those neurotransmitters. I was thinking to myself,

A look back at a series of dialogs between Rupert Sheldrake, Terrance McKenna and Ralph Abraham. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for a rediscovery of the audio recordings of Rupert Sheldrake, Terrance McKenna and Ralph Abraham.  Through a reexamination of the ideas and expectations of these progressive scientific thinkers we gain perspective on where science is heading.  And, whether a “paradigm shift” is eminent?  These dialogs also provide a deeper appreciation for the challenges facing scientific materialism as explored in Sheldrake latest book, Science Set Free. Rupert Sheldrake's Website The Complete Trilalogues Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (56 min.)  

Interview with Dr. Mario Beauregard about his new book, Brain Wars, and the battle between old brain science and new brain science.  Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with neuroscientist and author Dr. Mario Beauregard about his new ...

Interview with author and UFO filmmaker Paul Kimball. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with author and UFO filmmaker Paul Kimball. During the interview Kimball discusses the hypocrisy of belief in the paranormal: Paul Kimball: ‘Who’s the Paranormalist-In-Chief in the United States right now?’ I had this dialogue with a friend of mine who’s a liberal Democrat in the United States who was going on and on about how we have to elect Barack Obama. I was going, ‘Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I agree with you.’ But he was also a guy who continually would chide me about my interest in the paranormal. He would occasionally call it “woo” and that sort of stuff. He was very big into the James Randi kind of stuff. So one day we’re sitting there and we’re talking about both of these things and I said, “Well, wait a second now. You’re telling me that you’re going to go vote for a guy who has stated repeatedly that he believes in God, this telepathic being…” Alex Tsakiris:   Hold on, Paul. I love that. It’s in the Introduction of your book and I have the exact quote that you include in the book and it’s really good. This is in a 2008 interview between Christianity Today and Barack Obama: “I am a Christian. I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life.” Paul Kimball:   Right. So I asked my friend the next time I saw him after the election, ‘Let me get this straight. You just voted in an election for the most powerful office in the world for a man who believes in the supernatural being with whom he communicates by telepathy. This supernatural being also sent his only Son to Earth to be tortured and executed and then brought Him back from the dead a couple of days later. All so a prophesy could be fulfilled. And of course, there’s the whole walking on water thing, not to mention the water to wine trick, the raising of the dead.’ I could have mentioned the virgin birth, but I didn’t. And you think I’m a big goofy for having an interest in UFOs and ghosts?’ And the point to me is in the materialistic world we live in now it has become very de rigueur to just dismiss all of this stuff and I understand why. Religion has gotten—and deservedly so—a bad name over the course of human history. But you should be able to separate organized religion from what’s actually out there. Call it spirituality; call it faith; call it philosophy, if you will. Paul Kimball's Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (33 min.) Read It: Today we welcome filmmaker Paul Kimball to Skeptiko. Paul has written a fascinating new book entitled, The Other Side of Truth, in which he takes us on a road trip of sorts through all sorts of questions about ghosts, extraterrestrials, reincarnation, and the afterlife. Quite a fascinating book. Paul, welcome and thanks so much for joining me. Paul Kimball:   Hi, Alex. Good to be here. Long time listener, first-time guest as they say on some other sort of radio show, so great to be here talking to the Skeptiko audience. Alex Tsakiris:   That’s great to hear. As you know, I love the opportunity for the cross-fertilization, if you will, because I think there are so many opportunities when we look beyond the narrow field that we focus on. That narrowness is necessary, right? To really understand something we have to focus on it but then it’s nice to back up and look at the bigger picture, which is certainly something that you’ve done in this book even though you’re probably best known as a documentary filmmaker--films like Best Evidence, film about UFOs and the best UFO cases and a bio pic that I really enjoyed titled, Stanton T. Friedman is Real. I love the way it starts out with him on the pulpit and you have almost like organ church music in the background. I thought that was really well done. Paul Kimball:   Well, thanks.

Interviews from the 2012 Parapsychology Association conference with Dr. Daryl Bem, Dr. George Williams, Dr. Athena Drewes and Dr. Robert Van de Castle. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris and Dr. Richard Grego for interviews from the 2012  Parapsycholo...

Emails from Sam Harris reveal what he really thinks about parapsychology and Psi research. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for a discussion about his recent email correspondence with Dr. Sam Harris. During the discussion Harris’ opinions of Psi research and near-death experience research are discussed: Alex Tsakiris: …I like when little nuggets of truth, like this, are revealed.  Because if we just listen to Sam Harris’ public stance on Psi, on parapsychology, on Dean Radin, and Rupert Sheldrake, it’s all very open, very collaborative, very, ‘you go boys, let’s see what you got.’ But when you read this you see what he really thinks about Psi research.  It’s in the “backwater” of science.  That’s where is really is for Sam Harris. …here he is equating near-death experience research to Psi research.  Now, the only person who would do something like this is someone who knows very little about each. Even a rudimentary understand of the body of peer-reviewed NDE research should give Harris an appreciation for the larger neurological questions surrounding NDEs ( e.g. how can experiencers who have a wide variety of conditions, and even those who experience no medical trauma,  have similar hyper-lucid transformative experiences?).  Dr. Alexander's account must be understood within the context of this work. Full email exchange with Sam Harris Email from Dr. Jan Holden Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (18 min.)  

Interview with Dr. Victor Stenger about his new book, God and the Folly of Faith, and the science of consciousness and near-death experience. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with physicist, Atheist and author Dr. Victor Stenger  ab...

Interview with Dr. Eben Alexander about his new book, Proof of Heaven, and the medical mystery of his NDE. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with neurosurgeon and author Dr. Eben Alexander about his new book, Proof of Heaven.  During the interview Alexander explains why his medical training did not prepare him for understanding his near-death experience: Alex Tsakiris:   One of the really fascinating parts of the book is the professional transformation you go through as a result of this experience.  As you tell it, you weren’t totally unaware of the near-death experience research.  It was out there.  You had heard of, for example, Dr. Raymond Moody, but it was something you looked past because all your training had told you this was impossible.  So, it had created this blind spot in your medical knowledge. Dr. Eben Alexander: …it did require a tremendous amount of re-education. Having been an academic neurosurgeon for over 20 years, I thought I understood brain and how brain generates consciousness and mind and soul, spirit, what-have-you. But my thinking was clearly that when the brain and the body die that’s the end of consciousness. I now know that’s absolutely not true. And to get to that point after my experience I really had to learn a tremendous amount about consciousness I never had to know as a practicing academic neurosurgeon. I knew a few things about consciousness. I knew a few things that seem to turn it off. Every day we use general anesthesia which is effective at turning off consciousness.  Yet having used it for 150 years we still have absolutely no clue how general anesthesia works. I think that should give the listener a little bit of an idea of how little we really understand about consciousness. In fact, my experience showed me this very clearly, and I go into nine neuroscientific hypotheses in my book that I entertained and discussed with others in neuroscience, neurosurgery, trying to explain how my ultra-real experience might have happened in my brain given the severity of my meningitis.  My conclusion is  that none of these explanations work. Eben Alexander's Website Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (56 min.) Also of Interest: Anomalous Experience: share your real anomalous experiences and read about the experiences of others. Read It: Today we welcome Dr. Eben Alexander back to Skeptiko. Dr. Alexander has just published Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Near-Death Experience and Journey into the Afterlife. Welcome, Dr. Alexander. Thanks for joining me on Skeptiko. Dr. Eben Alexander:   Well hello, Alex, and thanks very much for having me back. Alex Tsakiris:   Well, you’ve written quite a book here. One part medical thriller—it really is—and one part near-death experience science book. It’s a great read. I didn’t think neurosurgeons were supposed to be writers of this caliber. Dr. Eben Alexander:   Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. I think you can tell it’s really a story from the heart because it’s a very personal story and my experience was absolutely life-changing in every sense of the word. And I mean, to me I think a lot of people are most interested when they hear that I had a profound near-death experience like millions of people have had and witnessed that ultra-reality and the startling nature of that realm. And because I had bacterial meningitis, which really pretty much turned off the human part of my brain, after I was recovering and putting the whole story together it started becoming very clear to me that there was absolutely no way that it had happened in my brain. And that was based on neuroscientific principles. So as stunned as I was by the nature of the experience, the ultra-reality, when I was waking up from coma my original intent was to try and explain that based on neuroscientific principles. T Then over a few months and even before I started reading any near-death experience literature,

Review of the recent controversy over the Newsweek magazine cover story, Heaven is Real, and Sam Harris’ response to an invitation to debate Dr. Eben Alexander regarding his near-death experience. Dr. Eben Alexander Responds to Sam Harris' Blog Post...

Interviews with psychologist and author and Dr. Kirby Surprise explores whether or not synchronicity is real. Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris and guest host Robert Perry for an interview with Dr. Kirby Surprise, author of Synchronicity: The Art of Coincidence, Choice, and Unlocking Your Mind. During the interview Surprise discusses how synchronicity relates to other paranormal experiences: Alex Tsakiris: Is there ever a reality to a synchronistic event beyond my personal internal psychodrama interpretation of it? And that also bridges us into the other transformative realities of near-death experience or out-of-body experience or other transformative experiences, is there a parallel? Is there a reality to any of those? Dr. Kirby Surprise: Synchronistic events are objectively real. Absolutely 100% real. But they’re a mirror. So when I say that what you’re seeing is subjective, I’m not saying that these are parlor tricks the brain does on you. I’m saying that both your psychodynamic projections and the mirroring effect are real and they’re external. They are actually out there and you are actually changing the environment that you’re in by 3% to 6%. And the book is about a reasonable explanation, an expository fiction on how that’s possible. Now the easiest way to prove that people are the source of synchronistic events rather than another supernatural source is very simple. You create them yourself. Everybody does this all the time. This is not a specialty skill. Every single living human being is walking around in clouds of synchronistic events they themselves generate. Those events are changing the environment slightly to bring them the patterns they’re seeking. Now the sort of Flat Earth explanation to this is that we’re changing the environment. The reality is we’re moving through probabilities. String theory is telling us we’re sitting in a virtually infinite amount of alternatives right now. I’m saying that instead of people thinking that we’re jumping between universes we already span an infinite amount of these probabilities at once. We’re moving through them and we’re steering through them by what we’re thinking, feeling, and paying attention to. These things like out-of-body experiences and the more paranormal stuff I don’t look at as paranormal. I look at it as extremely normal. And I think that slowly the verifiable part of the science is gradually catching up to what our mystic, Shamanic, ancestors already knew. It’s all science. Metaphysics is physics. It’s an extension of it. The modern part of science is that there are some things we can verify and some things we take a best guess at. The thing about synchronicity being a mirror is it’s easy to verify, you know? You go out and create your own. Kirby Surprise's Website Robert Perry's Bolg Post Re This Interview Play It: Listen Now: Download MP3 (42 min.) Also of Interest: Author Bill Pillow discusses Prenatal Psychology.