There’s a love-hate relationship between Hollywood and gaming, and tremendous friction around licensed properties and what they mean for the gaming industry. In this panel, the experts explore where the relationship is symbiotic, where it is destructive, the underlying sources of friction, and how the relationship is now evolving. This is a continuation of our live blogging at the eighth panel from Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008.

Bill Kispert, VP, Interactive, NBC Interactive
Sandi Isaacs, SVP, Interactive & Mobile, Paramount Digital Entertainment
Daniel Offner, Partner, Nixon Peabody LLP
Mike Breslin, VP, Global Marketing, I-play
Moderator: Andrew Wallenstein, Deputy Editor, The Hollywood Reporter

Where are we now in 2008 where things seem divisive in the Hollywood and games dynamics?

Mike – There are a few ways to look at it. You need collaboration between the production and the game developers, sets, and so forth; you can’t just hand over a style guide anymore. It also comes down to finding teams who share the creative vision. So collaboration is improving but it comes down to finding fit early in the process.

Keith – There are only three factors in the film license – time between film and game release, marketing budget, and likelihood of franchise to the film.

Sandi – I feel like everyone’s missing the point. It’s never been a more exciting time for film makers to collaborate with game makers. Now we have a great opportunity to start prototyping early in the process and explore business models, not just stay in the licensing box. At Paramount we’re putting together a team of game industry veterans to help make that happen. It’s also not just about the new release, but also the classics like The Godfather. It’s about the game, making a great experience and making it profitable for the studio.

Daniel – I’m slightly amused by the question, is Hollywood killing the game industry. We’ve worked with THQ for many years, and they make their bread and butter selling licensed games. There are some interesting changes now, though. The convergence of casual games, community and the web, and the access of content through broadband connectivity. The ability to tap the digital distribution platform opens up all kinds of interesting things. The other thing is having great content coming out of the studios and pairing that up with really great talent. I don’t think retail is going away – Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. – but digital distribution is becoming very important.

Mike – I can speak with mobile industry perspective. One reason there has been consolidation in mobile is the cost of licenses with the peak of interest in mobile. Of course the studios are trying to maximize their license revenue, but from the side of the team investing in these licenses and putting together teams, you overextend on the licenses and can kill your business.

Sandi – Obviously we’re investing heavily in these properties which drives the mobile licensing terms. It’s a tricky fragmented business but the players know the challenge. It’s not the cost of the IP but the economics of the mobile game business overall.

What does the mobile game business look like, all license or some original IP too?

Mike – We’ve had success with some of our own IP. But on the license side, I think that Hollywood can help the game industry with the co-marketing and opportunity to leverage a brand where the studios are spending millions of dollars.

Keith – That’s a key point, you have to work with the license holder, because if you don’t, you’ll lose the value of the marketing, events, co-marketing if you don’t check in regularly and see what they are doing with the IP.

Sandi – Another factor is the broadening of the game demographic overall, expanding the scope of movies that work for games.

Keith – And now for the first time you have gamers making movies; the producer or director says from day one ‘where’s my game’, and wants to be involved on a creative level and ensure quality. They are also not demanding large up front payments as part of the deals.

Bill – You could argue that Hollywood can drive the game industry going forward – places, characters and worlds, with game play layered on top of it. Then there are millions of other promotional touch points, like theme parks, television, fast food, and more.

Keith – The other really important point is that when you talk about these $8 million marketing budgets, you can piggyback on those budgets and have credibility going into Wal-Mart for retail distribution and retail promotion. By paying for the license, you get to piggyback the buy for the sell-in level, let alone the consumer level.

Daniel – My question for the studios is, as what point will you be in my clients’ business and not need them any more.

Sandi – I think we already are and that’s the issue. There are going to be different parts of the value chain where we need the game companies, but other parts of the value chain where we don’t. We’re looking to work with partners based on value-added for both parties, not a single model.

Keith – That’s no different for any other part of the studios’ businesses.

Bill – Our ability to take things on ourselves also depends on the capacity we have available at different points of time. But it’s a very good time for independent developers to have conversations with studios. It used to be that we would go to Vivendi or another publisher and they in term would deal with the independent developers.

Sandi – It’s going to be very similar to the TV and film industry, lots of co-financing, lots of distribution deals.

With all these changing models that are happening, are there any upcoming releases that will put things to the test?

Sandi – On our side it will come from the casual gaming side. We are going to put in the time to develop really great games.

Boesky – There’s one coming up in September called Afro-Samurai from Gonzo. Gonzo committed to making a mini-series, and we invested in it from the creative side. Spike picked it up for a nominal license fee. They only got the right to run it; it was a great five episode commercial for us. We pick up revenue from the DVD, iTunes, action figures, and the action game coming out from Namco. All of the revenue from all of those ancillaries go directly to Gonzo, and Spike made so much money from the advertising without paying for content that they commissioned another run from us.

Bill – The notion is that if you’re really trying to build a franchise, you need content across platforms, and think about how you release them strategically.

Keith – The lie we told in the 90s is now true. We actually can use our game assets across media. Disney, Warner are starting to do it sometimes.

With a show of hands – is there a perception that Hollywood games are bad games? (Many hands are in the air)

… Andrew’s note: My fingers can’t keep up with the debate!

Mike – We all know there’s nothing more discerning than a gamer.

Keith – If it’s a bad deal, don’t buy the game. If you have a desperate publisher who wants something, or who messed up and can’t get it right – they won’t pull the public.

Sandi – We’re talking about hard core gaming reviews coming out and killing Sponge Bob. These mass market games are not targeted at the hard core gamer. It’s about being realistic, what game are you playing and what the audience expects for it.

Keith – If you compare these titles to other games, look at what you’re comparing them too. If I invest $30 million in BioShock, I can only invest $10-15 million in a licensed property because of the spend on the license.

Sandi – And that’s why the studios are developing games ourselves, so we can reinvest in our own IP.

Bill – We’ve introduced a hybrid model where we are co-funding games. Some developers said thank god, we’ve been waiting for the studios and networks to put skin in the game, and other showed no interest.

Daniel – A question for Ubisoft, THQ, and the others is will the studios still be giving out their best AAA properties? Will they be asking for a different economic deal, or will the studios just do it themselves and use publishers for retail distribution?

Sandi – If publishers have internal great teams, they often don’t want to put them on licensed properties.

Bill – We’ve tried to adjust our internal model to get involved early and put our publishers in a position to succeed.

[tags]LA Games Conference 2008, Hollywood, Videogames[/tags]

We continue our live blogging at the sixth panel from Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008. The mobile games panel focuses on the question, what’s it going to take for mobile games to go mainstream, exploring differences between the US and international markets, and different business models that are being used to tackle the mobile phenomenon.

Mobile Games: Challenges & Opportunities to Create a Mass Market Phenomenon
Scott Scherer, VP Product Management, Hands-on Mobile
Jill Braff, SVP, Global Publishing, Glu Mobile
Stephen Jackson, CEO, Smashing Ideas
Kay Gruenwoldt, Head of Industry Marketing, Nokia
Erica Chriss, VP of Strategy & Business Development, Greystripe
Moderator: Mark Donovan, CMO & Senior Analyst, M:Metrics

Jill, what have you seen shift in the last year in terms of drivers of your business?

Jill – The increase in people playing mobile games. Back in 2002 with Sprint, we were doing focus groups and couldn’t find anyone playing. Now we can find active players a day after posting an ad in CraigsList. The core audience may be different from the typical mobile user, but that’s what you need to grow a business. Also, we’re trying to see the carriers start to measure RPU (Revenue Per User). As the networks become a commodity, these services become more important.

Scott, HandsOn involves bringing titles like Incredible Hulk to market. How is that doing?

Scott – Guitar Hero 3 has been a tremendous success, the number one title since it’s launch in December. It’s a brand that’s hard to screw up, but also hard to create a long tail and ongoing revenue stream. So we deployed an option where if you buy the game you get three additional songs each month, which drives people maintaining their subscription. People are coming back and trying out the new songs and getting more great experiences each month.

Mark – That underscores the shift to subscription models and evolving content.

Jill – It’s awesome to see this kind of stickiness to content and episodic content. Mobile really should be about this kind of close relationship with consumers.

Steven, you’re a serial entrepreneur with Smashing Ideas, a smaller company. What does this market look like to you?

Steven – The company has been a casual game maker for 12 years, generated 150 million game plays last year. We’re the largest independent Flash developer in the US. Adobe decided they’d spend $900M to address the mobile space with Flash Lite and we jumped on the Adobe bandwagon for the mobile space. We have 30 applications on Verizon and 80 screen savers. We create 60% of our games, and then for the other 40% distribute for other developers. As a small player, we play in the Adobe Flash Lite niche and that’s where we focus.

Kay, tell us what’s happening with Nokia. When nGage was first launched it was laughed at, but you’ve been tenacious and successfully relaunched. How does it fit in?

Kay – We’ve learned a lot over these last 3-4 years. It took quite a while to come up with the new nGage platform, and we’ve accomplished all the points we set out to address: fragmentation, discovery, purchase process. We’re focusing on a premium experience for higher end phones. The average price for games on the platform is from $8-14. People pay for it because they can try the content out first and perceive the value. Now, original IP is leading ahead. The content that our games publishing unit creates is selling very well. That’s great news for smaller game companies and developers, they have a chance to be successful.

Erica, your business model is what Greg just said is way too early, ad supported games. How does that work, and is it cannibalizing the market?

Erica – We see it as a great market, and we know we are not cannibalizing it because our publishers are telling us so. It’s increasing the scale of the entire market, enabling discovery, and providing content for folks who will never pay for content. Instead of having them pirate your content and pay you nothing, why not allow them to create meaningful experiences that you can monetize. We’re seeing 300K downloads per day, and a large percentage surveyed would not pay for games, and are experiencing similar conversion rates as other distribution models.

Are there top tier publishers signing on with Greystripe?

Erica – We do have a number of top tier publishers whom we work with, including Hands On and Vivendi. First, we can be thought of as part of a windowing strategy, like DVD vs. theatrical. Things that are utility based, applications, do very well. We also have content from top tier providers who are experimenting with simultaneous introduction through us and carriers. They are measuring cannibalization careful and finding none – we’re just an addition channel.

What are you seeing as the relative importance of carrier vs. handset vs. direct to consumer distribution?

Scott – For HandsOn most of the revenue comes from the carrier deck. For B2C, it’s less about creating a portal for us, and more about working with larger brands like World Poker Tour where it makes sense – we run a website that offers free play online and then upsell to mobile

Jill – Certainly today, the lion’s share of the business comes from carriers. I’m actually interested in learning more about how much money you’re seeing from advertisers, Erica. There are other channels that are more direct that we are exploring. Over time this will look more like one-to-one marketing. The great thing about mobile is that literally it is always with people.

Mobile as an industry is a real pain, with so much fragmentation and handset standards. Is that getting any better?

Jill – We really like the complicated part. Not only is it a barrier to entry but it’s something that for us is a competitive advantage. We also do localization, day and date launches, event marketing tied in with carrier marketing. It’s similar to any other entertainment business. You can’t let people have a game only on one type of phone. Consumers don’t understand the technical complexity, it has to be seamless for the consumer.

Scott – For us it’s a lot like what Jill said. License partners expect global launches across carriers. We end up doing dozens of unique builds instead of a “high” and a “low”. It ends up creating a lot of extra work that changes the economics of the business.

Kay – What this discussion shows is that if you really want to grow this business you have to look across these issues as a whole. How you distribute. Consumer experience and discovery tools. Billing mechanisms. We are trying to address these as a whole, and those who do will be successful.

What would the panel’s advice be for people making games on other platforms and are eyeing mobile?

Kay – My key advice is do not copy and paste, it will not work. You can ruin great IP and a great brand by copying and pasting. The technology is a lot different from a PC and a console. It has a lot more – cameras, motion sensors, touch screens, wifi, GPS. Don’t just slap what you have onto mobile.

Erica – What’s interesting is that might decrease your chances of getting carrier distribution. But we believe that consumer choice leads to real experimentation, original IP, and reinforce the entire system.

Jill – If I were a strong brand holder I would build a really strong license business given the risks and uncertainties. If I were a developer I’d talk to carriers and publishers. You need to understand the carrier retail environment, and then partner with a publisher as a way of getting in the channel. On the flip side if you were going to develop for nGage, iPhone, etc, you wouldn’t have to deal with the porting issues but do have to deal with the complexity of developing for these platforms. There’s room for innovation. Even the videogame business, which is dominated by large publishers, has room for this kind of innovation (look at Guitar Hero).

Erica – It’s actually a wide open market, and new developers have the opportunity to take share with hit products.

Mark – But most of the volume is through the carrier channel, and that’s a tough channel to crack if you’re two guys in a garage.

Is location a component of games you are developing or see in the market?

Kay – Location is something that needs to develop, especially location based gaming. The only reason it’s not out there bigger is that noone has yet been able to develop a valid business model for it. With GPS in so many devices, it’s something we have to look at. I can’t say more at this point. If anyone here has a great concept, hit me up after the panel!

Erica – We’ll experiment with anything and we have a very cool distributed mostly in Japan that is all location based treasure hunting etc.

Are you seeing things outside the US that foreshadow what we’ll see here?

Stephen – We’re seeing a lot of interest in off-deck distribution models outside the US.

Jill – As an industry we make the mistake of talking about mobile from a US perspective. It’s also not one size fits all outside the US. We’re very successful in China and it’s all very local content that would probably be rejected by Verizon. In Europe networking is just starting to happen in terms of game play. Or in Latin America people are experiencing entertainment the first time through mobile, they don’t have cable or Wiis because of cost.

Mark – Did you just suggest that Verizon is a stronger censor than the Chinese government…

Are mobile games being usurped by casual online games; are these competition for eyeballs, dollars and entertainment?

Kay – Everyone is competing, it’s entertainment as a whole whether movies, mobile, or others. One note is that we are now looking at cross platform gaming across mobile and PCs.

Jill – From the consumer point of view, people are used to being on many screens simultaneously. There’s a lot more gender neutral user base for mobile, so it’s more akin to and complementary with what you see in casual games. That seems to make the brands grow far more than a cannibalization effect.

Stephen – One of our customers is Cartoon Network and we’re taking their online games and immediately bringing them to mobile.

Are we seeing games start on mobile and then go to other platforms?

Jill – That’s where we are trying to go as an industry.

Kay – There are pretty good examples already of that happening, one example from Germany that went from mobile to retail distribution in supermarkets for PCs.

Stephen – The challenge for us is monetization. We are able to sell clicky sticky games for mobile, but not Flash games for online.

Erica – That’s a challenge as games go cross-platform, consumers free expectations transfer to mobile, so advertising is important.

You still haven’t told us how much money publishers can earn through advertising!

Erica – In places like India and China we are seeing advertising with higher CPMs through advertising than through purchase. We’re seeing CPM’s in the US as high as $40, and in India as high as $15.

What do you see for the mobile games market going forward?

Scott – The real innovation will be through multiplayer connected games, which is a way of having a terrific experience, to reach out and add new experiences.

Jill – All these new technologies and devices are not for technology’s sake but to create more immersive, richer experiences.

Stephen – We’ll see much better discovery, the ability to find, share and play content.

Kay – Richer, more immersive experiences. Multiplayer and connected game play going beyond what you can have on your PC because mobile is something you walk around with.

Erica – More UGC, more social viral content now that there is a revenue model that can support free things.

[tags]LA Games Conference 2008, Mobile gaming, International mobile[/tags]

Johnathan “Fatal1ty” Wendel is the first gaming superstar. He talks about what it takes to succeed as a gamer – it’s not that different from succeeding as an athlete – and the “Fatal1ty” brand that he wants to build into the Nike of the videogame space. Ken Rutkowski interviews him for Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008.

LA Games Conference Featured Interview
Johnathan “Fatal1ty” Wendel
Interviewed by Ken Rutkowski, Host, Ken Radio

Johnathan is the most accomplished professional PC gamer in history. He has joined forces with the Championship Gaming Series, which is owned by DirectTV, as a spokesperson.

Ken starts talking about travelling through Korea with Johnathan, where he is a gaming superstar mobbed by gaming groupies. He’s a spokesperson now, and is no longer playing games at a competitive level, but for the right game, moment, and TV exposure will jump back in.

Succeeding in gaming is about focus, like any professional athlete. For gamers, a lot of skill sets are required: Discipline, timing, psychology, even math (for understanding the odds).

Johnathan believes that as CGS reaches hundreds of millions of homes worldwide, there will be more and more gaming stars in different countries. They already number in the hundreds, and increasingly are getting sponsorship from brands. They will be the new professional athletes.

The “Fatal1ty” business model is to pick the up coming athletes, pay them salaries, and build the revenue behind them. Andrew’s comment — It sounds a lot like the music labels until a few years ago.

Johnathan has moved from trying to split his time between running his business and gaming to just focusing on the business – it takes a substantial investment of time.

The “Fatal1ty” brand is a lifestyle brand for gamers. The keyboard, the mouse, the headset, etc., evolving from Johnathan as a celebrity to a brand for gamers, like Nike is to most physical sports.

What do you think about the Wii Fit? Very exciting. Johnathan is looking forward to using it. He woke after a Wii session sore, realizing that his work out was throwing punches with Wii. He’s a hardcore sports guy, football, tennis, and was a top 50 tennis player in his space.

[tags]LA Games Conference 2008, Videogames, Fatal1ty, Johnathan Wendel, Ken Rutkowski, Championship Gaming Series[/tags]

These gaming industry experts share their perspective on what makes a game great – in terms of game play and financial results – and what new technologies and capabilities will be changing the face of killer games going forward. This is a continuation of our live blogging at the fourth panel from Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008.

Matthew Bellows, VP, Consumer Strategy, Vivox
Catherine Herdlick, Dir., Game Production, GameLab/Co-Founder, Come Out & Play
Spencer Hunt, VP, Game Production & Digital Dev., Sony Pictures Television Int’l
Ariella Lehrer, President/CEO, Legacy Interactive
Chris Petrovic, VP, Digital Media, Playboy Media Group
Moderator: Scott Steinberg, Managing Director, Embassy Multimedia Consultants

What does having a successful game mean? Financial return? Set up for follow-up game? Great reviews?

Ariella – Obviously with a small company you have to make money, so number one is generating enough revenue to pay for your marketing and development expenses. Right now we have a number one product, Lost Cases of Sherlock Holmes, so that’s a success.

Spencer – First and foremost it’s about getting deck placement, and it’s about carrier relationships and consumer uptake. We do a lot with licenses, and for us, if the original content creator is excited about the product, that’s a strong indicator for market success. With mobile, if you’re getting 50K downloads a month for a few months, that would be fantastic.

What about retail distribution?

Ariella – For our games retail is now an afterthought. Online with our prentice Los Angeles game we sold 60K online and 20K at retail.

Let’s look at a popular game, Guitar Hero, and discuss what are the common factors that lead to success.

Catherine – Aspirational qualities are important, the desire to be a rock star. The game lets a consumer immediately identify with a role that has broad appeal and gives them the power to be the star.

Matthew – So much of a game developers’ motivation is to make something amazing and exciting, that even if a game is not a success based on revenue but pushes boundaries and finds passionate fans.

Chris – Aspirational is an important element for us (Playboy), on the male side living the good life as Hef does, and on the female side it’s important as well, though we’re still looking for what that element is.

Spencer – Everyone wants to be a rock star, so Guitar Hero nails the aspirational component. Also the core game play mechanic – it’s very easy to play the easy level, but very difficult to master, and it provides encouragement along the way.

Ariella – Also for Guitar Hero, the innovative use of the controller which allows people who have never played games to interact with the content. The interface is a large part of the success.

Matthew – What’s interesting about the controller is that it was not seen as the right thing to do from a business standpoint. It was a financial risk that publishers took, it drove up the SKU price, but it was all about game play.

How important is doing the groundwork, picking a business model?

Spenser – It’s all about following through on a vision. If you are really passionate about a decision, like Nintendo’s controller emphasis rather than graphics, following through is key.

Matthew – Look at Harmonix. They tried for ten years to follow through with the vision of making music accessible, and now they’ve hit the right formula and it’s a big success.

How important is it to be able to turn on a dime when you’re approach isn’t working?

Ariella – Very important. You look at the strengths and weaknesses of your developers to decide how to transform a property into something great. Then the process of refining and developing is a very iterative process. We’ll do the extra month or two at the end of the process to beta test, refine and polish before launching so we get it right. You have to be sure you have enough time to do it right.

How many concepts do you go through and throw out before deciding what to put into production, and whether to design by committee or use one person’s input.

Catherine – We go through dozens of ideas per month, and the decision depends on many factors, what we think will resonate with the market, production capacity, etc. We discuss as a committee but don’t design by a committee, the producer is the filter through which management, developers, etc. can voice their concerns.

How about prototype development?

Catherine – It’s absolutely imperative, you have to put something together almost immediately to have a vision for what the game is. With Fashion Play we iterated for four months, scrapped the product, than started over and created the finished product in five months.

How far into left field should you go with your original concepts?

Spencer – Left field is great for original IP, but for licensed content, you will have a flop if it varies from consumers’ expectations. You can go further out in mechanics, though.

Chris – We’re an evergreen brand so there aren’t a lot of pockets for totally original things. Evergreen is good but it has it’s constraints. Used to be you could reskin existing game engines, but we’re past that now. It’s hard to innovate as an original IP holder without new and different hits to go from.

How important is international?

Chris – For us international is much bigger. Looking at mobile we’re not on deck here but have been from early days globally. Existing and new territories, Asia Pacific and Latin America are very important.

Do review scores actually matter and influence sales?

Ariella – They don’t matter for casual games, but do for hardcore. Casual gamers look at top-sellers. Brands are becoming more important for the casual game market with 20 new games a day. If you as the millennial generation, they don’t believe in experts anymore, they believe in what each other and their friends think. GameRanking.com etc. are important for us when we are looking to find developers and see how they’ve scored with their games; it’s more of a business-to-business use of expert scores versus consumer driven.

Can good marketing sell a bad game?

Matthew – Marketing can definitely get the first launch 50% or 100% above what you ‘should have been’, but good games last. Here reviews do have an influence. I love the consumer reviews of the title, not so much expert reviews but people who have played games, love them, and think of themselves as expert. They set an incredibly important tone.

Let’s learn from common mistakes by players in the game space…

Chris – I’ll use ourselves as an example, though it preceded me. We had an online game aggregator come to us, suggest we slap our brand on an existing arcade, and we had about two consumers come to that URL. The web has a long memory about bad experiences. Reskinning without advancing the brand is disastrous.

Catherine – I’ll add perspective about thinking through the use of the controller. Most of our games use the mouse. We’ve launched games that can hurt your arm if you play too forcefully. In one example, we promised a game that we couldn’t make because it was technically impossible with the control mechanism, and kept bumping against the wall and eventually had to abandon the effort.

If you haven’t played a GameLab game, audience, download one now. They are top notch.

Ariella – We produced a game for a wonderful charity, Starlight / Starbright. We were given a script with celebrity participation. The only game we could come up with that fit the script was a side-scrolling platform game, and this type of game is not very successful as a downloadable PC game. It was actually well reviewed, but it didn’t do well in terms of sales. It was the wrong game for us as a developer and for the audience. Nothing was good about the result.

Spencer – It’s very easy for the team to follow in love with pieces of the game but they can’t pull away from the closeness to see how it relates to the brand or how playable it really is. Pulling away is an emotional rather than technical problem. You always have to build in the time to make adjustments.

Matthew – We had a concept game for MoPets and bring it out for mobile phones. It was original content, we had a great partner (Sony BMG), but it’s so hard to break original IP on mobile versus on downloadable PC where you can get cat, dog, etc. lovers engaged.

Are there any trends improving chances of success across the board?

Catherine – There has been discussion about franchising, licensing, etc. One of the exciting things now is original IP starting with games and moving to other media

Ariella – There are huge opportunities thinking about innovative controllers, look at the Wii Fit and other titles. We’ve really just touched the surface of what’s possible here.

Matthew – I’m so excited right now to be in the video games industry. You can do things so many ways – Flash, browser, mobile, etc. – we’re seeing a lot more creative things being developed.

Spencer – The reality of multiple platforms is finally being realized. Everyone in media is recognizing the power of this.

Chris – Building on that, the concept of synchronous game play through multiple platforms is finally coming to fruition.

Matthew – For example look at PMOG, Justin Hall’s passively multiplayer game. It’s a browser plug-in that tracks you as you go through the web, and you acquire your points, levels, badges, and so forth just as you browse the web.

Catherine – The whole definition of what’s a game is evolving, turning every day activities like buying groceries into a game – it’s pretty amazing.

Audience Questions

There’s a lot of discussion about innovate controllers. How do we do this without having to acquire another set of plastic toys that fill our rooms?

Spencer – Are you talking about the same plastic working across multiple publishers?

Maybe getting rid of the plastic altogether.

Spencer – I’ve wondered why noone has created a Guitar Hero controller that connects to an actual guitar

Catherine – I think we’re actually streamlining it more than we were 15-20 years ago.

What new innovate technology is on your radar screen as the next big thing for gaming – haptic interfaces, 3D, etc.?

Spencer – I’m really interested in location based games, and game design that takes advantage of that information. Use of GPS, photos for scavenger hunt, community, etc.

Catherine – I definitely think that GPS will become huge and change the way we play.

Ariella – I saw a presentation from an Israeli company that has to do with how your body interacts with the PC – there’s some camera that tracks your movement and allows you to physically interact with what you see in the screen

Matthew – I’m very interested in the integration of speech into games, facilitating a much more natural interface

Scott – We also haven’t talked about UGC, such as with the SIMS, which is important.

Chris – Having a tactile interaction with a virtual experience. I’ll leave that to your imagination regarding the implications for our world (Playboy).

What is your development cycle, and how does new technology impact that?

Chris – For Playboy, because games are not a core part of our business, we are strategically opportunistic about pursuing opportunities. We’ll sit back and analyze the financial benefit to us, with the partner taking the majority of the risk. We see a lot of pitches and don’t execute on 99.9% of them because it doesn’t make sense.

With respect to Matthew’s comments about voice in games … I was reading an article that discusses the advantages of using a third party voice provider like Ventrillo is that you can still talk to your guild when the game crashes. What do you think about this?

Matthew – It’s a good point, though there’s not much for the guild to do when the game crashes. But we’re working on a project to make that capability possible, keeping the voice independent of the game.

[tags]LA Games Conference 2008, game design, videogames[/tags]

Find out why there really is no difference between casual and hardcore gamers, and what it will take for the rest of the world to become players of casual games in the third panel from Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008.

Casual Games: What’s Next Now that Everyone’s Involved?
Peter Blacklow, Pres., WorldWinner (Liberty Media subsidiary), EVP, Digital, GSN
Kate Connally, Vice President, AddictingGames, MTV Networks
Eric Lavanchy, Director of Gaming, Endemol USA
Matt Turetzky, VP, Non-PC Games, RealNetworks, Inc.
Dave Madden, EVP, Sales, Marketing & Bus. Development, WildTangent
Moderator: Mike Vorhaus, Managing Director, Frank N. Magid Associates

Give a profound or controversial comment with your introductions:

Dave – I think that casual games are generally going free, with monetization inside and and at the back end of the game

Matt – News Flash: Gaming division is about to spin off from RealNetworks as a publicly traded company – and that’s all I can say about it

Eric – I’m convinced that within 5 years there will be no game shows or reality shows without a significant online component that intimately involves and integrates people into the show.

Kate – This is a profound question, not a statement. What will be the successful types of games that are going to spring to life on television?

Peter – Celtics in 4 over Detroit

In such a crowded old space, how do new casual game titles break through?

Dave – It depends on how you define casual, psychographic or demographic. If casual is a game found online, no money spent, no time investment required … in that world, it’s going to be much bigger than the traditional game business is today.

What’s the next new thing in casual games?

Kate – We’re looking at platforms like Facebook and MySpace engaging a much bigger interactive audience daily than ever before who are looking for something to do. You give them an interactive experience while they’re on their web page, and you have a much better chance of engaging with them. There are also some innovative game styles emerging but they are still early stage, like the viral vampire games which are interesting at first but seem to become annoying.

Matt – Obviously there are a lot of interesting things happening on social networks, but in general I don’t think there’s much new. We’re all to blame for focusing on things that have been successful over time, but that sameness will open the door to brands, like Scrabble, Mattel and Hasbro.

Eric – It needs to be remembered that this is a very nascent area; Facebook as a platform has been opened for all of two years now. In the early days of TV they were filming radio plays. We probably haven’t seen the thing that can really get accomplished through social media yet.

Peter – This whole industry – online casual games – is still brand new. Particularly at GSN, we hear a lot from people who enjoy the game shows on TV and who have no idea that they can go online and compete in these games. Wheel of Fortune is the number one syndicated show week after week after week, and while Sony is doing a great job trying to move people online, the viewers and loyal fans are just beginning to move online.

What tools do you use to get viewers on to game sites?

Peter – Back to TV shows, none of these should happen without an online component. Example, Bingo America, GSN was getting 2000 registered users per day, not many. When we launched Bingo America with prizes and contests, that jumped to 22,000 registered users a day.

Is there really a difference between the casual gamer and the hardcore gamer?

Peter – I also work with GamerDNA, a company that I’m on the board yet, which is focused on hardcore gamers. This segmentation around casual, hardcore, etc. games doesn’t work the same way in any other industry – people listen across music genres for example. We’ve all lost sight of the gaming consumer, who don’t define themselves that way.

Kate – We’ve also defined gamers by the way games are delivered, the platform, vs. the games that are differentiated by brands and programming vs. platforms.

Matt – There’s a perception that casual games are for women 35 plus. If you look at the traffic coming to RealNetworks is much more balanced, 50/50. Casual is just about monetizing.

Dave – The credit card is the gating factor for gaming online, who has it and who has access to it in order to buy the game. I load up my iPod at 99 cents a song but I can’t do the same thing in gaming, to break the price down and sample games on a bite-sized basis. It’s dependent on microtransactions and other forms of monetization, the ways people can pay for games.

Kate – Or advertising.

Can Eric talk about mobile vs. internet entries?

Eric – We’re trying to minimize the distinction, and that’s how consumers see it.

How about voting, mobile vs. internet?

Eric – Because of the way we advertise and make money from the calls, it’s 90% mobile vs. 10% internet but that will change over time. If you look at Current.TV, over 40% of the audience is having a two screen experience while they watch.

Are people interested in learning about or improving themselves through gaming? Self-awareness?

Eric – Nintendo has a whole line of such games

Kate – We’ve done research, and the drive for personal achievement and accomplishment is a big part of the motivation. Consumers say it’s the one time they can actually finish something.

Matt – Our research indicates the same thing, that our users play games for relaxation, entertainment and also a sense of achievement. When you want to relax and feel good about yourself, you might want to pop balloons vs. do math problems, because the frustration level gets in the way of the sense of accomplishment.

Peter – When we started to benchmark people’s scores against others in tournaments, we doubled our conversion from free to money.

Are you looking at all at casual gaming as a way of affecting how people engage and connect with each other, and understanding the effect on others?

Mike – The SIMS is the closest to what you are describing.

Kate – The concept of collaborative play is creating awareness that people can accomplish more in groups than they can individually. Collaborative play is an exciting new area where we are seeing a lot of interest from gamers.

How do you determine content synergy with consumer lifestyle?

Collective hmmm… from the panel

For example, in the videogame Crimes of New York, who was creating that lifestyle and how do you create synergy with the games.

Eric – Some Endemol examples – Extreme Makeover Home Edition. We’re aggregating people based on lifestyles and interests, allowing for social interaction.

Kate – We have a whole category called News Games based on things that celebrities and politicians do. We have a whole team of creative developers who make those choices and let fly.

But the kids are playing GTA IV, etc. Who’s keeping this real world?

Kate – It’s the responsibility of the game publisher

Eric – We’re starting to see platforms for user generated gaming content. So the whole question of control won’t matter over time, you’ll control it, the consumer will. A few years ago, that wasn’t possible.

Kate – At Addicting Games, 70% of our games are coming from independent developers who might be teenagers learning Flash. Our most popular game last year was developed by a 14 year old in Sweden.

Dave – The same plumbing being used by Real Time Worlds to launch their games is being structured as a Wiki. Individuals will be able to create their own story lines, story arcs, etc., and a $50 million bet was just made against it.

Who’s the hard core gamer and who’s not?

Dave – If you are an aggregator of games, you don’t need to worry about it. But the payment models is where things get interesting. The number one game played by RuneScape, Habbo’s users, is free. There’s a whole slew coming out like this where you get in for free, and then pay for new capabilities on a microtransaction basis or through advertisers.

Eric – To answer an earlier question, what happened to the paid download model for casual games – it’s not gone yet but there consensus that it’s going away.

But the paid download model is paid and growing, it’s bigger than PC retail!

Matt – We agree with that but the mix is moving toward online and free, ad and microtransaction supported.

Peter – As you know I don’t like the hardcore / casual distinction. At Worldwinner, all of our gamers are hardcore casual gamers. On average, they spend $400 a month on contests. Our commission is 15-25%.

Dave – That’s called gambling addiction and people do it at the horse race all the time.

Peter – The gamblers don’t stick around very long. People know they are going to lose $300 a month but are doing it for the entertainment value not because they think they are going to make money.

What’s going to get the other 250 million people involved in casual games?

Matt – It’s a question of ubiquity. We’re distributing our games through as many portals and locations as possible to drive that reach.

Dave – It’s a huge addressable audience, the way you make money is multi-faceted but it’s going to be a huge market from an advertising perspective.

Kate – We need to make great efforts to diversify the types of people who are making games. To date it’s been an outgrowth of technologists but we need people from artistic and creative backgrounds.

Eric – It’s about taking gaming out of its box and immersing games in other participatory experiences.

Peter – Television. Liberty Media, by buying our small skills based gaming company and merging it with a television network, is saying that they are going to drive people from TV to the internet to play games.

[tags]Casual Games, LA Games Conference 2008[/tags]

Will the connected home be a winner-take-all world or one big happily family of interconnected devices? And where do consoles and set-top boxes shake out in these scenarios? Both extremes are represented in this first panel from Digital Media Wire’s LA Games Conference 2008.

Battle for the Digital Home: Is the Console Entertainment Hub of the Future or Fighting to Stay Alive?

Erin Turner, Sr. Director, Web Services & Publishing, Trion World Network
Steven Roberts, VP & GM, Games & Strategic Initiatives, DIRECTV
Mike Yuen, Senior Director, Gaming Group, QUALCOMM Internet Services
Josh Krane, SVP, Interactive & New Media, G4
Moderator: Ted Cohen, TAG Strategic/Chairman, Mobile Entertainment Forum Americas

Does the console die?

Josh – For consumers that would be a good thing, but it’s a question of how you’d get there. It would take a lot for set top box and PC makers to catch up to the consoles, and for consumers, they want the best gaming experience possible, which the consoles deliver.

My 15 year old has gone from Xbox 360 to PS3 to now a Dell XPS, and no longer touches the consoles saying that PC gaming is where it’s at.
Josh – As the big titles come out for the consoles I bet he’ll be back to the consoles. The titles will drive it.

Erin – There isn’t really a hub for the home; broadband has become the platform. Going forward, any device with a monitor, rendering engine and connectivity will be able to play games. That’s why we’ve focused on building server based games, where the intelligence is in the server.

Steve, your company provides set top boxes. Can you compete?

Steve – No. Set top boxes will never achieve a console or XPS experience. Can we do casual gaming with a good experience that 150K people pay for? Yes. The purpose for set top boxes is to provide content, and television content first.

But as you watch Joost, Brightcove and Veoh emerge, is there the potential for DirectTV to become disaggregated?

Steve – I don’t think so. You can’t think about people watching TV just in the context of gamers. Will the consoles be connected to TVs and bring in content, whether a movie or a TV show downloaded? Sure. But in terms of a TV provider, we are the ones who will pay $1 billion for NFL rights.

Mike – I’ll take the contrarian view, premised around emerging markets. We believe that a single hub or box will become dominant in emerging markets, like Russia. These markets may have one TV, no cable, and such a box would be a precursor to broader entertainment. It may not be a wired home, it may be wireless via 3G etc. to deliver content and conquer piracy.

Was the success of Xbox Live a surprise?

Josh – What was surprising was the speed at which they pushed it out. The only thing missing from Xbox now is the cable card slot. It’s one of the areas will Microsoft was able to bully it’s way into. It definitely extends the life and value of the consoles, to download content, communicate and connect with friends.

How do your companies utilize all this?

Erin – Our big focus is on connected games. For us it’s about content being local and intelligence being on the server, so games can evolve over time. With connected games you create enough to get started, build a feedback cycle, and then build out the game over time. It’s a different development model, and it also makes web access much more important. It changes the model from pure software to software plus service, all enabled by connectivity.

Steve – The connected home is critical for all of us. We are seeing more content and games going to broadband connected set top boxes. These components will all work together. Eventually, Xbox will become a client to our set top box within the connected home – not that far away, probably the next generation console. Today you can stream from DVRs to PCs.

How many of the audience have played the Wii Fit already, just release today? (20 or so hands in the air). What does the Wii do for the console market?

Josh – The controller changes the market for consoles, creating experiential physical gaming. The Wii Fit expands it even further, just another interface for using your body and natural motions, and will be another lift for Nintendo and for these experiential types of games.

Mike – The Wii changed the metric for gaming, let’s have fun. From an emerging market perspective, few of them have any exposure to games or have any brand preference. We think there’s a huge opportunity to introduce different types of content in emerging markets with this clean slate.

What is the future of HD in the home and gaming?

Steve – We see HD television growing faster than any other home entertainment element, and I can only believe consumers will want the same in gaming.

Josh – We also see a lot of HD owners with no HD service but with HD consoles.

Erin – The bottom line is that gamers like good graphics, and HD is great for that.

Mike – I just hope we don’t go down the path of increasing production cost and content pricing.

Coming from the music world, interoperability was a critical success element. Does the lack of interoperability hold back the success of the gaming market?

Erin – Absolutely not, if you think of a world where gaming is a service (server based) that can be delivered to any platform, where the server is common across all devices and the platform just renders the graphics.

Audience question, what do you do to keep consumers’ attention when they are multitasking with media?

Steve – That’s just the world we live in, so you build in mechanisms that will allow consumers to have a multi-tasking experience, like interactive TV elements or from a game to keep an eye on ESPN with picture-in-picture. You just have to make it flexible enough that you don’t impose it on the 60 year old woman who just wants to watch her TV programming.

At Qualcomm, how do you look at scaling experience to meet consumer expectations – so the mobile gaming experience is as rewarding as it can be given screen size limitations.

Mike – Though handsets are getting pretty powerful, they’ll never match consoles or PCs. We’ve been evangelizing cross-platform gaming. For example, rather than put a whole MMO on the handheld, you enable certain tasks that you can do on your phone.

Josh – I think that’s a brilliant idea (the approach Mike described). As a content provider, we also try to do something similar, push the use of multiple platforms. We’ve gone toward trying to be sure that we are on as many platforms as possible, enabling the ability to do a certain function for example on mobile that will bring you back to the TV. For example, with Championship Gaming, we’ll take snippets of the TV content and push it out via WAP and via the browser on the PS3, Wii, or Xbox Live, and using the web for interactivity and voting. We’d also want to push out that interactivity to the set top box during broadcast as well.

Erin – The same opportunity we discussed for gaming on mobile – doing a specific task – can apply to TV as well, like checking sports scores.

Steve – Summarizing around the question, interconnectivity across multiple platforms is not holding gaming back, it’s creating opportunities.

From DirectTV’s perspective, is there anything about the Xbox that’s scary?

Steve – No. Like any other competitor, it makes us better, to create a set top box that allows us to bring VOD content via broadband right into our DVR. In the end it helps the consumer get what they want. We just did a research study. We now have a 300 GB DVR. Whether you have a DVR or not, 50% of consumers say no, we need more content.

What do you think about the future of microtransactions in the console world?

Erin – Microsoft is a closed world. Sony is a more open platform, and PC is completely open. If you look at Asia, the majority of PC gaming business models there is microtransactions.

Seems that the carriers are in a good position to manage that?

Mike – From the mobile perspective in the US, some of the operators don’t understand it and are reluctant to adopt and drive a $20 support call for a $0.20 transaction. A question is whether there will be a big currency exchange across Xbox, PS3, etc.

The media center PC has had surprising staying power. Does the media center PC with console capabilities become disruptive to the console business.

Steve – First let’s look at media PCs. The people who own them are not using the media functions that Microsoft intended. In terms of capability, I think you’ll see amazing functionality on these boxes over the next 12 months. Over time, you’re going to see companies embrace one another’s capabilities to allow the consumer to fully utilize those functions across the home. You’re never going to stop advancement, and we feel secure that for our 17 million homes we can deliver a better entertainment experience.

So you don’t have to be in the hardware business, just the service business?

Steve – If we didn’t have to build set top boxes, we wouldn’t. It’s a necessary evil but not a high margin business. We went into the business for the ability to control the consumer’s experience, as well as for economies of scale. For Microsoft and Sony, like us, it’s a loss leader for selling software and content.

Mike – On the issue of the media center PC not taking hold, the limiting factor has been ease of use. The PC still has the stigma on being a PC. Will it take an Apple to get this right? I don’t think they’ll give up after the initial failure of the Apple TV.

We’re on PS3 now. Will there be a PS5 or will there be a death of the console?

Josh – I think there will be a PS5. Sony has been open that they see the platform as a ten-year platform. We’ll see a PS4. The 5 may have many more capabilities than a console today, but I think we’ll see one. All these devices are missing linear TV. I think they’ll work that out and we’ll see a 5, not sure about a 6.

I know Steve will hate me, but again, with an Xbox or a PlayStation, do you need DirectTV?

Steve – We get over 100 million customer service calls a year, “I can’t find channel 202”. If you think about those types of questions and the complexity of using a console to get linear programming in multiple rooms in the house, and extend that over the 120 million TV homes in the US, you are not going to displace DirectTV or Comcast so easily. We’re built for the mass market. And while the consoles evolve, we’ll be evolving as well.

[tag]LA Games Conference 2008, Connected Home, Set Top Box, Game Consoles[/tag]

As part of our Super Fan series, we interviewed Dean Carignan. Dean is Director, Advertising Business Strategy for Microsoft’s Entertainment & Devices Division. In this role, he develops long-range strategic plans for investments in streaming video advertising, mobile marketing, and game-based advertising. Dean also spent several years with Microsoft’s adCenter group, where he drove product strategy for Paid Search, Display Ads, and Contextual Advertising.

Dean was able to provide us with some excellent perspective on these new advertising opportunities. He is part of a group that looks at opportunities to advertise via the Xbox, Media Center, Zune and mobile platforms. We go into depth on in game advertising and how important this new segment will be. He walked us through case studies of Domino’s Pizza and P&G that describe how a well designed campaign can add to the realism of the game experience and yield results for the advertiser.

This is a must listen podcast for advertisers who are struggling to break through on television and are looking for new ways to market their products using these rapidly growing platforms.

 

 Digital Podcast 37 [49:50m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

[tags]Dean Carignan, Microsoft, in game advertising, gaming, social media, super fans[/tags]