the morning shakeout podcast show

the morning shakeout podcast

Summary: Host Mario Fraioli gleans insight and inspiration from top athletes, coaches, and personalities in the sport of running.

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 Episode 32 | Peter Ciaccia | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:47:19

“I could remember standing at the start line the next year and [seeing] how impactful what I do—that solidified it for me—how impactful a job I have to see the world come here and run this race. And when the howitzer went off, I couldn’t pull myself away and I was really overwhelmed at the time. It was a testament to all the work we do to put this on and just standing there and seeing the people run past the start line…it was just overwhelming, but it was something I’ll always, always remember.” Really enjoyed sitting down with Peter Ciaccia, president of events at the New York Road Runners and race director for the New York City Marathon, for the podcast this week! Ciaccia, 65, will be retiring next month after 18 years with the organization. He took over race director duties for the world’s largest and most popular marathon in 2015 and oversees the production of every NYRR event throughout the year. Ciaccia, who is “committed to growing and sustaining a vibrant, inclusive running community,” has helped grow NYRR's total number of finishers by over 40 percent. We covered a lot of ground in this conversation, including: what he’ll miss most about his job, and the mark he hopes to leave on the organization—and the sport—when he steps down after this year’s New York City Marathon; how he plans to spend his time in retirement and the origins of his impeccable fashion sense; his upbringing in the Bronx and how that shaped his passion for health and fitness; why he first got involved with the NYRR in 2001 and how his role there has evolved over the years; his time working in the music industry and how that experience has influenced the way he thinks about and puts on running events. I asked Ciaccia about the importance of professional athletes to races and what he’s done to help bridge the gap between the front of the pack and the back of the field; anti-doping and NYRR’s Run Clean initiative, which he spearheaded in 2015, and why that’s so important for the sport; the NYRR Youth Wheelchair Training Program, which he helped launch in 2016, and the opportunities it’s created for disabled kids; and whole lot more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 31 | Gabe and Justin Grunewald | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:08:02

"I grew up with faith and I do think that my life has a purpose—and maybe it's not what I thought it was going to be, but I think that it does help me at some junctures with this disease. This isn't how I would have chosen my life to turn out at all but maybe this is my way of fulfilling my life's purpose and trying to raise awareness for these rare diseases that really do actually need it. I would never have raised my hand to do this, but someone has to." I’m super excited to have one of running’s most impressive power couples joining me on the podcast this week: Gabe and Justin Grunewald. Gabe is one of the top middle-distance runners in the United States. She has run 4:01 for 1500m and was fourth at the Olympic Trials in that event in 2012. In 2014, she won a national title in the 3000m and has been competing at the top of the sport for close to 10 years now. But beyond all that, she’s got an incredible story, one that involves a near decade-long battle with adenoid cystic carcinoma, a rare, incurable form of cancer that’s returned four times since she was first diagnosed in 2009. She’s had multiple surgeries, chemotherapy and immunotherapy treatments, and just has generally been on a crazy rollercoaster ride with the disease since the age of 22. Justin, her husband, is a super solid runner in his own right. He’s qualified for the Olympic Trials in the marathon and is now a budding ultrarunner, who I’ve been fortunate to coach since last fall. By day, or night rather, he’s a doctor, working long shifts in the hospital, and has a very intimate understanding of the seriousness of his wife's condition. It was a real treat to sit down with these two recently to talk about all kinds of stuff, from how they met as student-athletes at the University of Minnesota to Justin’s foray into trail and ultrarunning and what Gabe thinks about it; we got into Gabe’s health situation, what she’s been through over the past two years, how her relationship with running has evolved in that time, and the competitive goals she still has for herself; we talked about her role as a cancer advocate, starting the Brave Like Gabe Foundation, and coaching celebrity Chip Gaines for his first marathon, to what it’s like for Justin, as an MD, to be so close to the situation on both a personal and professional level. We talked about the power of positivity and living life to the fullest, what Gabe and Justin hope people take away from her story, and so, so much more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 30 | Lauren Fleshman | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:10:25

"I'm not trying to build some empire where I need to be liked by as many people as possible. I just want to be myself and be myself publicly—until I don't anymore, then I'll just shut down all my social media accounts." Stoked to welcome Lauren Fleshman to the podcast this week! Fleshman, who turns 37 on Wednesday, is a retired professional athlete who still maintains sponsorships with Oiselle and a number of other brands. She's won two national titles, has represented the United States in numerous international competitions, and, in 2011, placed seventh in the 5,000m at the world championships in South Korea. These days, Fleshman wears a lot of hats: mom to two young children, wife to professional triathlete Jesse Thomas, co-founder of Picky Bars along with Thomas and professional marathoner Stephanie Bruce, coach of Little Wing, a small group of elite female runners based in Bend, Oregon, practicing writer, and one of running's most outspoken advocates on a variety of topics and issues. We talked about a lot of different things over the course of this 60-ish minute conversation: coaching, how the various coaches she worked with throughout her own athletic career have influenced her current perspective and philosophy, and what can be done to create more opportunities for coaches, especially females; Picky Bars, and how she and husband Jesse Thomas don’t let the business consume every moment of their lives; her recent recommitment to leaving the sport better than she found it and using her platform to spur meaningful change even though she's no longer competing; her current relationship with running and what she misses most about being a professional athlete; what's changed in the sport since she turned pro in 2003 and whether or not she's worried about the sport's future; the advice she'd give 21-year-old Lauren upon graduating college; writing, when it came into her life, and what her process looks like; and much, much more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 29 | Mario Mendoza | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:14:49

"To me that's faith. To me that's faith in running. So I think runners understand faith because a lot of times we don't really see something and it might even take years, but then it's like 'Whoa! Where did that come from?' But it was actually because you stuck with it—something in you believed." Really excited to have Mario Mendoza join me on the podcast this week! Mendoza, a 32-year-old from Bend, Oregon, is a five-time national trail running champion, three-time USATF Trail Runner of the Year, and has represented the United States six times in international competition. He's placed in the top-10 at the last two IAU Trail World Championships, finishing sixth in 2018 and ninth in 2017. We recorded this episode the day before his last race—a third-place finish at the Under Armour Mountain Running Series 50K at Mt. Bachelor this past Saturday—and two days before the birth of his son, Jair Giovanni Mendoza. We covered a lot of ground over the course of this hour-long episode: the message he'll give his newborn son upon entering the world, what it was like growing up in a Mexican family on an avocado ranch in Cambria, California and how that experience has shaped his perspective on life and running, his work as a pastor and what faith means to him, how he got into running and the various ways his career has progressed and evolved over the years, why he's constantly reminding himself not to get caught up in outcomes when it comes to racing, why representing the United States at global championships is so important to him, and a whole lot more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 28 | Sarah Sellers | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:50:07

"My goal isn't to garner more media attention or to shock the world or to even top Boston. My goal is to keep the love of the sport, to stay healthy, and to continue chipping away at times because ultimately I think [that] kind of like Des Linden has shown the world, if you are able to stay healthy and train consistently for a long period of time, that's where you get really good." Stoked to have Sarah Sellers on the podcast this week! The 27-year-old Sellers, who works as a nurse anesthetist in Arizona, was the surprise second-place finisher at April's Boston Marathon, running a personal-best of 2:44:04 in cold, windy, wet conditions. Sellers, who took home $75,000 for her efforts, didn't realize she was the runner-up until after she crossed the finish line. In this conversation, we talked a bit about what's changed for her since Boston while looking ahead to her next big race, the New York City Marathon on November 4.  We also discussed whether or not she's felt an added layer of pressure after her breakthrough performance at Boston, how she's learned to move on from bad races, where her mental toughness comes from, injuries and the changes she's made to her training and lifestyle in order to stay healthy, defining herself as more than just a "runner," balancing training at a high level with working a demanding hospital job, the importance of the support system she surrounds herself with, and a lot more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 27 | Kara Goucher | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:44:23

"When you have things that are out of your control, that are weighing on you and really causing you angst on a daily basis, your running is not going to be what you want it to be. It can be a great escape, it can be a place you go to find calmness and peace in your heart and your mind, but you're not going to perform at all what you're capable of performing." Thrilled to welcome Kara Goucher to the podcast this week! Goucher, who recently turned 40, hardly needs any introduction: She's a two-time U.S. Olympian, world championships silver medalist in the 10,000m, sub-2:25 marathoner, and has finished on the podium at both the New York City and Boston marathons. Beyond her competitive accomplishments, Goucher serves as a role model to runners worldwide, particularly women and young women, who are inspired by her example. We talked about a number of different topics over the course of 40 minutes, including how she's dealt with racing anxiety throughout her career, the impetus behind her new book, Strong, what life's been like for her since speaking up as a whistleblower in the Nike Oregon Project investigation three years ago, how she navigated the disappointment of finishing fourth at the 2016 U.S. Olympic Trials Marathon, what's keeping her competitive fire fueled at the age of 40, the effect training with other world-class women like Shalane Flanagan, Jenny Simpson, and Emma Coburn has had on her career, the appeal of ultrarunning, what's exciting her about the sport right now, and a lot more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 26 | Mauricio Díaz | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:53:46

"And then at that same point, I was running and I found out that running was just the best vehicle and the best way and medium to know a place—and eventually, also [to] get to know yourself." Really enjoyed sitting down with Mauricio Díaz this week for a conversation that had nothing to do with training, racing, or current issues that exist within the sport. Instead, we talked about running as it relates to adventure and exploration while serving as a cultural common denominator around the world. Díaz is the VP of marketing for Aire Libre, a company out of Mexico City he accidentally co-founded with a couple of his friends that creates immersive weeklong running experiences that are partly athletic, but mostly cultural, extremely educational, and undoubtedly transformative. In this episode, we talked about the importance of culture and storytelling, and how those two elements are at the center of everything Aire Libre does, from the content they create to the experiences they cultivate. Díaz describes the group's initial adventure—56 miles through the Sonoran Desert in northwestern Mexico—along with some of the other culturally focused and socially conscious follow-ups he's led, such as running along the Arizona-Mexico border to explore the land of the Tohono O’odham nation, and many other stories that I think will pique your interest and may even get you to view running through a slightly different lens. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 25 | YiOu Wang | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:41:27

"I think that if you maintain good relationships with people, if you act in a way that is helpful to others, that is kind, that is giving, and you just hold yourself to a high standard, then opportunities will appear before you—and [when they do], just say yes." Super excited to welcome YiOu Wang to the podcast this week! YiOu is the reigning U.S. 50K trail champion, two-time winner of the Lake Sonoma 50, and an Olympic Trials Marathon qualifier with a personal best of 2:38:46, in addition to being an Under Armour and Camlebak-sponsored athlete. Full disclosure: I coach YiOu—we've been working together for the past 2-1/2 years—and this episode marks the first time I've interviewed one of my own athletes for the podcast. We covered a lot of ground in this 90-minute conversation, including YiOu's recent year-long trip around the world—she and her husband were working as teachers—where she visited (and ran in!) numerous countries, experienced many different cultures, and stuck to a training schedule despite being in a new place every few days. We also talked about immigrating to the U.S. as a young child, "almost failing P.E. because I couldn't run the mile," what inspired her to take up running in college, chopping nearly an hour off of her marathon personal best over the course of seven years, transitioning to (and training for) trail and ultra running, where her competitiveness comes from, and much, much more. Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 24 | Magdalena Boulet | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 01:05:59

"My first run ever, I remember just having the feeling of so much joy. I said, "Wow, how come I've never experienced this before in the pool? This is so cool." And it was more about just the fact that I had this feeling of being competitive that never really clicked in swimming."  And the rest, as they say, is history. It's a huge honor to have Magdalena Boulet as my guest on the podcast this week. Magda is one of the most incredible athletes—and human beings—that I've ever had the fortune of getting to know. The 44-year-old Boulet, who grew up in Poland and moved to Germany before immigrating to the United States as a teenager, made the 2008 U.S. Olympic team in the marathon (and owns a personal best of 2:26:22 for the distance), has qualified for numerous national teams, and, over the last five years, has established herself as a top international ultramarathon runner, winning the prestigious Western States Endurance Run in 2015 and, most recently, the grueling Marathon des Sables, a six-day, 250-ish kilometer stage race through the Sahara Desert. Boulet, who works at GU Energy Labs in Berkeley, California as the VP of Innovation, Research, and Development, has called the Bay Area home for over two decades. She's married to former elite miler, Richie Boulet, and the couple has a young son, Owen. We covered a lot of ground in the course of this hour-long conversation and I felt like we barely scratched the surface of Magda's story, what she's accomplished at various distances and disciplines throughout her competitive career, and how she's able to juggle competing at an elite level with being a wife, mom, and executive, amognst other things, so we'll just have to schedule a Round 2 for another time. But, there's plenty we did talk about, including: — Her beginnings at GU Energy Labs in 1998 and how that relationship has evolved over the years as an athlete and employee. — Growing up as a swimmer in Poland, moving to Germany for a brief period of time, and eventually immigrating to Long Beach, California, where she was exposed to running in her late teens. — Getting herself noticed as a junior college runner by tripling at the state meet and how that eventually led to her to Cal and coach Tony Sandoval. — Transitioning to Cal and falling in love with Berkeley, California and the surrounding area. "I was sold within an hour," she told me. — Her relationship with her husband, Richie, how he inspired her to continue running competitively after college, and why he's been a voice of reason for her through the years. — Coach Jack Daniels, whom she worked with for many years after college, and the influence he had on her overall development as an athlete. — The disappointment of not making the Olympic team in 2004, the decision to have child a few months later, and what fueled her motivation leading up to the 2008 Trials. — How a nasty plantar fasciitis injury in October of 2007 had her contemplating retirement a little over six months out from the 2008 Olympic Trials. — The blow-by-blow of 2008 U.S. Olympic Trials Marathon in Boston, where she led a majority of the race and eventually finished second to Deena Kastor to make the Olympic team. — When (and why) she developed an itch for ultrarunning—and the steps she took to scratch it. — The unpredictability of racing an ultra versus the relative predictability of racing a marathon. — What still excites her from a competitive standpoint, and what's exciting her about running in general right now. — And much more. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 23 | Noah Droddy | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:56:45

"I have faith in myself that on my best day if someone is not having their best day, I might be able to get 'em. And that's enough to allow me to show up to a start line with some confidence and rest assured that I'm going to give my best and put my best effort out there. And if that puts me in last place, so be it, but I definitely show up feeling and knowing that on my best day I can compete with these guys." Stoked to welcome Noah Droddy to the podcast this week! The 27-year-old resident of Boulder, Colo., is among running's rising stars and one of the sport's most interesting, likable, and relatable personalities. Since finishing last in the 10,000m final at the 2016 U.S. Olympic Trials, where he received a swell of media attention for his unique looks and everyman persona, Droddy has established himself as a solid competitor on the roads, finishing second at the 2016 U.S. 10-mile championships, breaking 62 minutes at last year's New York City Marathon, and debuting in 2:16:26 at last fall's Chicago Marathon. Earlier this year, he "put some demons to rest" on the track, running a personal best of 28:07 for 10,000m at Stanford's Payton Jordan Invitational. In this conversation—a follow-up of sorts to an interview we did 15 months ago—Droddy and I talked about a wide range of topics, including: — What he learned from his first marathon last fall and how he’ll apply those lessons to his next marathon buildup. — The importance of taking breaks from training throughout the year and why that’s not a hard thing for him to do. “I don’t cool down [after my last race of the season],” he told me. “I go home, I shower, and it’s over. The last step of the race is the last step that I’m really thinking about.” — What a typical week of training looks like for him right now. — How things have changed for him in the last year since signing a contract with Saucony. — The importance of staying involved in his local running community and connecting with other runners. — Training with the Roots Running Project and how that’s been a major contributor to his development as an athlete in the past few years. — His relationship with his coach Richey Hansen and how it's evolved—along with his training—since he moved to Boulder in 2015. — Being naive about the marathon and why that excites him at this point of his career. — How he keeps himself in check when he’s racing against a bunch of guys with personal bests faster than his own. — Hiking the John Muir Trail for six weeks after college and what was so transformative about that experience. — The importance of balancing out his running with other interests and what he does to occupy his time when he’s not training and racing. — Life after competitive running and what he’s doing to set himself up for the future. — Working closely with his sponsors and giving the brands that support him a return on their investment. “We just need to redefine our roles and just think about ourselves as more than just athletes,” Droddy says. “And really the whole sport would benefit from that.” — His signature facial hair and the method behind his mustachioed madness. “I try to pull it out for important occasions,” he explained to me. — The coverage of running in the media, why it’s suffering, and what can be done to make it more exciting and appealing to fans. — What’s exciting him in the sport of running right now. — A lot more. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 22 | Deena Kastor | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:58:05

"I really believe that running is such a great way to challenge us and to add that difficulty to our life in a very controlled way so that we can deal with challenge and adversity. And I love that. I love getting to the crux of a workout. I go out hard in races and workouts because I want to suffer early on so I can find ways to get through it. And to me it’s always been a game—just this playful pursuit of seeing how badly I can hurt and then what tools I can learn to get through it…When I can handle these challenges in running continuously, then when something shows up in life, I feel like it’s a breeze to get through it." Honored to welcome Deena Kastor to the podcast this week. The 45-year-old, who lives in Mammoth Lakes, California with her husband (and coach) Andrew and daughter Piper, is an Olympic bronze medalist in the marathon, multi-time national champion at various distances, and holds numerous American records, including the still-standing women’s marathon mark of 2:19:36. She also holds multiple Masters world and American records from 5K to the marathon. Kastor, who published her first book, Let Your Mind Run, in April, recently sat down with me to discuss a wide range of topics, including: — Living and training in Mammoth Lakes, California, a place she’s called home since 2000. — The launch of the Mammoth Track Club 18 years ago and how it’s evolved since then. — What keeps her going and brings her excitement at the age of 45. — Writing her memoir, Let Your Mind Run, and what that experience was like. — The importance of surrounding yourself with a great team, both in running and in life. — Training under coach Joe Vigil after graduating from Arkansas in 1996 and how he helped shape her life philosophy: “If you have it, share it.” — Using disappointment as a means to fuel the next big breakthrough. — How training for and racing cross-country “feeds her soul” and helps her become a better racer on the track and on the roads. — Transitioning to the marathon as a means to get stronger for the 10K. “I wouldn’t even call myself a marathoner [at the time],” she admitted to me. “I was a 10K racer using the marathon to strengthen myself for the track.” — The buildup to the 2004 Olympic Games and what it felt like to bring home an Olympic medal. — Breaking 2:20 in the marathon to set a still-standing American record in 2006 and who she thinks might be able to break it. “I don’t believe the record is mine to own,” she told me. — Dropping out of the Boston Marathon in April due to hypothermia and where she was when she learned that Des Linden had won the race. — What’s exciting her in running right now. — And a whole lot more. This was a fun conversation and gives a good glimpse into how one of America's greatest distance runners thinks about and approaches her craft. Listen in, learn, and be inspired by one of the most accomplished athletes of our generation.  This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 21 | Dean Karnazes | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:54:12

"And I thought, "My god, I'll never get to that level." And if someone at that level can't make a go of it in the sport, and you want to make a go of it in the sport, you're going to have to do a lot more than win races, or just race. You're going to have to figure out other revenue streams to make a go of it, especially if you want to commit your life to this, which I really did." It was a treat to have Dean Karnazes join me on the podcast this week. The 55-year-old Bay Area resident remains one of the most recognizable figures in ultrarunning—if not all of running in general—for his accomplishments on and off the race course, which include multiple sub-24 hour Western States finishes, 10 Badwater finishes (including a win in 2004), 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days, cross-country runs, a 350-mile run on no sleep, and countless more. Karnazes' achievements have inspired many, and angered some, but the breadth of Karnazes' impact on the sport, and peoples' lives, is inarguable. He's authored four books, including the international best-seller Ultramarathon Man, which helped bring widespread notoriety to the sport of ultrarunning and led Time magazine to name him one of 100 most influential people in the world. Karnazes, who has sponsorship endorsements with The North Face and other brands, has also done a lot of work for charity, including Karno Kids, which has helped provide financial support for organizations and programs focused on improving health and wellness for children. We covered a wide range of topics in this episode, including: — His recent experience at the Western States Endurance Run, where he finished in just over 27 hours. — How Western States as an event has evolved since he last ran the race 10 years ago. — The current competitive landscape of ultrarunning and how it's impacting the sport. — His role in the sport of ultrarunning and how its evolved over the past couple decades. — His 22-year relationship with The North Face and helping launch The Endurance Challenge Series 11 years ago. — Advice he'd give other athletes looking to make a living in the sport. — The biggest lessons he's learned as an athlete and how he's applied them to other areas of his life. "I take a 360-degree approach in everything I do," Karnazes told me. "Training, strength-training, diet, of course, sleep, of course, interpersonal relationships—all of these things make you the best animal you can be—so I've really focused on all of those things as I've gotten older." — His approach to training and how it's changed over the years. — The benefits of hiring a coach for his 50 marathons in 50 states and 50 days endeavor in 2006. — Tips for running strong after the age of 50. — What brings him the most fulfillment—and what keeps him going after two-plus decades in the sport. — How he thinks about pain and why he considers it the definition of fun. — What can be done to knock down some of the barriers of entry into ultrarunning. — The importance of his family's support over the years and the advice he'd give to other ultrarunners whose families might not understand their commitment and passion for the sport. — A whole lot more. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 20 | Kellyn Taylor | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:39:02

"I’ve never been a person to think that just because someone has a better PR than me that they’re going to beat me. I think that it’s important to have belief in yourself and your capabilities. You have to believe that you’re going to do something great before it actually happens." Thrilled to have Kellyn Taylor join me on the podcast this week. The 31-year-old mom, who trains in Flagstaff, Ariz., as a member of coach Ben Rosario’s HOKA Northern Arizona Elite squad, ran a 2:24 at Grandma’s Marathon on June 16. It was a four-minute personal best, two-minute course record, and the seventh-fastest marathon ever run by an American woman. Taylor’s breakthrough came just 61 days after being forced to drop out of April’s Boston Marathon with hypothermia, an experience she described as a disappointment and a blown opportunity. The Wichita State alum, who finished sixth in the marathon and fourth in the 10,000m at the 2016 U.S. Olympic Trials, was eighth at last fall’s New York City Marathon (2:29:56). She’s run personal bests in both the mile—4:33.4 indoors at Boston University in January—and marathon this year, and describes herself as a “jack of all trades.” Competitive running isn’t Taylor’s only pursuit, however; last fall, she successfully completed her coursework and training to be a firefighter, a topic we got into over the course of our conversation. “It’s something that I can just see myself just doing and being happy with for the duration of my working life,” she explained to me. “For me, one of my biggest goals in life is to never have a job that I don’t love. I’m 31 years old, almost 32, and so far, so good. If I can have that carry on for the next 30-35 years, I think that would be a special thing.” We covered quite a bit of ground in this episode, including: — Her breakthrough performance at Grandma’s Marathon. — What her husband said to her after she broke the tape. — How much time she takes off after a marathon. — Where she now sees herself on the map of U.S. women’s marathoning. — How she was feeling heading into the Boston Marathon (where she eventually dropped out due to hypothermia). — Her thoughts on why many of the elite women struggled so much at Boston this year. — When (and why) she decided to run Grandma’s Marathon. — What her training looked like in the two months between Boston and Grandma’s. — Where her self-confidence comes from and how she uses it to her advantage. — Reflections on the 2016 U.S. Olympic Trials Marathon, where she finished sixth, and what she would do differently if she were in that situation again. — How she’s a different runner now versus when she joined NAZ Elite 4-1/2 years ago. — The importance of a longterm coach-athlete relationship and training in a group environment. — The appeal of firefighting and how she’s been able to juggle that with her training as an elite-level athlete. “I think that I can do it all, don’t get me wrong,” she told me. — Her aversion to foam rolling and strength-training. “I have like five foam rollers,” she admitted to me. “I don’t use them. I don’t know why I keep buying them, but I have them.” — The lessons she wants her daughter to take away from her athletic pursuits. — A whole lot more. I really enjoyed this conversation with Kellyn and letting her share some of the secrets behind her recent success. If you’re looking for some insight on setting yourself up for a breakthrough or learning how to bounce back from a bad race, this episode is for you. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 19 | Jason Ayr | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:56:57

"I see it more as the type of runner, athlete, or individual who is looking for that experience and something that might change you a little bit. And that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be super competitive as well. For me, what racing the Sun Chasers in Death Valley taught me is that those experiences can be happening at the same time—it could be the rawest form of competition but at the same time be this moment of self-discovery. And so all of them being bundled up into that same thing just labeled 'experience' and I think that's the type of athlete, runner, or individual that is going to seek those things out—and I think there's definitely an interest there." Really excited to welcome Jason Ayr to the podcast this week. Ayr, who works as the controller at Tracksmith, finished 22nd at this year's Boston Marathon, running 2:29:53. The 30-year-old Ayr also captained Tracksmith's team to a second-place finish at The Speed Project 4.0—a 340-mile unsanctioned relay race running from Los Angeles to Las Vegas that's primary source of information, promotion, and documentation is through Instagram—a couple weeks prior, running dozens of hard miles in just under 36 hours. We covered all things TSP in this episode, including: — When he first became aware of The Speed Project and when Tracksmith decided to enter a team. — Whether or not he had hesitations about taking part in TSP 4.0. "If I had known how difficult it was going to be, there's no way I would have done it two weeks before a goal race," he admitted to me. — The 40 teams that made up The Speed Project: Who were they? And where did they come from? — The vibe amongst all the teams before, during, and after the event. — The logistics of navigating 340 miles through the desert with no real rules to follow. — How his team's race strategy evolved throughout the event. — The group dynamic after two days together under the hot sun, in close quarters, and on little sleep. — Preparing for TSP 4.0 while also training for the 2018 Boston Marathon. — The close battle that developed with a French team called the Sun Chasers. — When he cracked in the final hours and his teammates wouldn't allow him to run any more miles. — How the experience changed him. — Where underground, exhibition-style events like TSP fit into the overall running landscape in the coming years. — A whole bunch more. This conversation with Jason was a fun one and satisfied some of my curiosities about The Speed Project, which is the type of event I think we’re going to see a lot more of popping up in the coming years—events that go against the grain of the traditional running race, challenge established norms, and generate a fresh excitement that is equal parts competitive and experiential. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:

 Episode 18 | Jeff Dengate | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:36:40

"What is a runner? To define it today, that's a question we have to ask. There are a lot of people out there who say, 'I'm not a runner' but they probably run 3 or 4 days a week, they might run 25 miles a week, but they also might do other things. The day of that loneliness of the long-distance runner, the guy in short shorts out there pounding the miles and training for a marathon—while we saw that popularity of the standard distances and that traditional kind of runner grow, it's plateaued, and even receding—if you look at races, they're struggling to hit the numbers that they want and need. But then you have all these events, there are all sorts of non-traditional things...there are these events that are happening, and they're challenging, and they're every bit running." Excited to welcome Runner's World "Runner-in-Chief" Jeff Dengate to the podcast. Dengate, who is on his third tour of duty at RW after recently wrapping up a second stint at Men's Journal, took over for Betty Wong-Ortiz in March and has been charged with leading the brand under its new owner, Hearst. Dengate, who got his start in media as a senior editor for before leaving to be the web editor at Runner's World in 2007, is best known for his coverage of shoes and gear at both RW and Men's Journal (where he worked from 2014-2016, and again from August of last year until this past March). A runner for the past three decades—he ran his first 5K race while training for karate as a kid—Dengate has a current penchant for off-road races and low-key events. "It's a place for me, personally, where I like to spend my race entry fees," he told me. In this conversation, we talk about his new role at Runner's World, what brought him back to the brand for the third time, how its content focus has evolved in the short time he's had the reigns, and a lot more, including: — His favorite running shoe of all-time and what makes a good running shoe. — Runner's World's new look and feel—both in print and online—and the early feedback he's received on the changes it's undergone. — Why print magazines are still important in today's digitally-focused media landscape. "The commitment to a magazine is definitely here," Dengate told me. — The staffing changes that have taken place at RW in recent months and the importance of having consistent contributors producing content for the brand. — Which media brands outside the running space influence and inspire him. — How Mountain, Ultra, and Trail running fit into RW's coverage plans. — His thoughts on the importance of competitive running in the overall landscape of the sport. — The biggest challenge he faces as Runner-in-Chief and what success for Runner's World looks like in his eyes. — What's exciting him in running right now. — How he got into writing and media and his advice for anyone who wants to break into the industry. I really enjoyed this conversation with Jeff and it was great to hear firsthand what's going on at the sport's largest and most recognizable endemic media brand. If you've bought one of the last two issues of the magazine, or visited in recent months, I think you'll be interested in what he has to say. This episode of the morning shakeout podcast was edited by John Isaac at Complete show notes here: Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: Support the morning shakeout on Patreon:


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