Encountering Silence

In today's episode, the hosts of Encountering Silence speak with contemplative teacher James Finley, following his reflection on the spirituality of silence which we released last week as episode #62. If you have not yet listened to episode 62, we encourage you to do so before listening to this episode — click here to listen to it. “I don't know how to listen. I think I'm afraid to listen. Because listening implies an act of trust. When I get quiet, the voices of pain come up inside of me and drown me out. Thomas Merton said, 'We live in a world that has forgotten how to listen.'” — James Finley To lead us into his reflections on silence, James offers different ways of understanding silence that he first learned from a Jesuit priest/Zen sensei; then takes us through a thoughtful commentary on the ancient monastic practice of lectio divina. He reflects on the importance of listening — both in the spiritual life as well as in ordinary human wellness. If you’d like to hear James Finley’s first episode with Encountering Silence, follow this link: Silence and Vulnerability. “Everything said in this monastery should come out of silence, and its fruit should be to deepen the silence... We should never forget that all of  our noise comes out of silence and is very quickly returning to it.” — Thomas Merton, as quoted by James Finley Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: James Finley, Merton’s Palace of Nowhere James Finley, The Contemplative Heart James Finley, Christian Meditation James Finley, Thomas Merton’s Path to the Palace of Nowhere James Finley, Meister Eckhart’s Living Wisdom Thomas Merton, Medieval Cistercian History The Desert Mothers and Fathers, Early Christian Wisdom Sayings T. S. Eliot, The Four Quartets Thomas Merton, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander Thomas Merton, Seeds of Destruction Martin Buber, I and Thou David Brooks, The Second Mountain Richard Rohr, Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer Kathleen Deignan, Thomas Merton: A Book of Hours Hafiz, I Heard God Laughing: Poems of Hope and Joy Thomas G. Hand, Always a Pilgrim: Walking the Zen Christian Path “How do we contemplatively listen to the evening news? How can I be contemplatively present to the complexities and challenges of the real world?”  — James Finley Episode 63: A Conversation on the Spirituality of Silence: with James Finley Hosted by: Cassidy Hall With: Kevin Johnson, Carl McColman Guest: James Finley Date Recorded: April 18, 2019

Contemplative author, teacher, retreat leader, and psychologist James Finley returns to the Encountering Silence podcast this week. At James's suggestion, when we recorded this episode we began by giving him the opportunity to share his own reflections on the spirituality of silence. After he finished this presentation, we engaged in a time of shared dialogue in response to his reflections. This week's episode consists of James Finley's reflections; next week's episode includes our dialogue in response to his talk. Click here to listen to part two. "The poet cannot make the poem happen, but the poet can assume the inner stance that offers the least resistance to the gift of the poem... lovers cannot force the oceanic oneness, but can assume the inner stance that offers the least resistance to the gift of that." — James Finley To lead us into his reflections on silence, James offers different ways of understanding silence that he first learned from a Jesuit priest/Zen sensei; then takes us through a thoughtful commentary on the ancient monastic practice of lectio divina. He reflects on the importance of listening — both in the spiritual life as well as in ordinary human wellness. If you'd like to hear James Finley's first episode with Encountering Silence, follow this link: Silence and Vulnerability. "Can I become so silent that I can hear God speaking me into being, all things into being, the divinity or the holiness, the virginal newness of all things?" — James Finley Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: James Finley, Merton’s Palace of Nowhere James Finley, The Contemplative Heart James Finley, Christian Meditation James Finley, Thomas Merton’s Path to the Palace of Nowhere James Finley, Meister Eckhart’s Living Wisdom Thomas Merton, Medieval Cistercian History Guigo II, The Ladder of Monks & Twelve Meditations T. S. Eliot, The Four Quartets Teresa of Ávila, The Interior Castle Rollo May, Love and Will John Duns Scotus, Philosophical Writings Thomas Aquinas, Selected Writings Jean-Baptiste Chautard, The Soul of the Apostolate Martin Heidegger, Being and Time Krista Tippett, Becoming Wise Mary Oliver, Devotions: The Selected Poems "The mystic isn't someone who says 'listen to what I've experienced,' the mystic says 'look what love's done to me.'"  — James Finley Episode 62: Reflections on the Spirituality of Silence: A Talk by James Finley (Part One) Hosted by: Cassidy Hall With: Carl McColman, Kevin Johnson Guest: James Finley Date Recorded: April 18, 2019 "Our listening is an echo of God's eternal listening to us. We might say poetically, that God says to us, 'I created you to have someone to listen to, because I just love it when you talk to me like this. And my listening, I created in my heart an echo of my eternal listening to you, so that each unto each, the listening and the word, unites in a kind of union." — James Finley

This episode concludes our two-part conversation with author and spiritual director Therese Taylor-Stinson, the founder of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network. To listen to part one, please click here. "All contemplation should be followed by action; they are there for one another. The reason to contemplate anything would be to have clarity about what action to take next." — Therese Taylor-Stinson Therese Taylor-Stinson is the co-editor of Embodied Spirits: Stories of Spiritual Directors of Color, and the editor of Ain’t Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around — Stories of Contemplation and Justice. She is an ordained deacon and elder in the Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), a lay pastoral caregiver, and a graduate of and an associate faculty member of the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation, where she previously served as a member of the board. She is the founder of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, an international, ecumenical/interfaith association of persons of color with a ministry of spiritual accompaniment. A native of Washington DC, she now lives in Maryland. Her ministry, like her books, explores the intersection of contemplative spirituality and the ongoing struggle for social justice and the dismantling of racism. "Trauma doesn't have to be something physical, where a bone is broken or blood is seen or anything like that. Anything that silences you and keeps you from defending yourself against something coming against you is trauma." — Therese Taylor-Stinson In this week's episode, Therese builds on our previous conversation by exploration the relationship between silence and trauma, talking about how the science of epigenetics has revealed how trauma effects people over generations. She also invites us to explore the question of how contemplation can be misused as a way of hiding from the problems facing our world — but how it can also be a meaningful way for people to awaken to what is real and what needs our collective attention. Acknowledging the painful links between Christianity, racism, and white supremacy, Therese offers a word of hope — that we do not need to be shaped by the mistakes of the past, but can work together in pursuit of true justice and reconciliation for today and tomorrow. Comparing the struggle against racism to a relay race, she hopes that the steps that we take today can help to make the world a better place for our grandchildren. To learn more about the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, visit www.sdcnetwork.org. Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Therese Taylor-Stinson (ed.), Ain’t Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around — Stories of Contemplation and Justice (includes essays by Jacqueline Smith-Crooks, Lerita Coleman Brown, Maisie Sparks, Jung Eun Sophia Park, Soyinka Rahim, and Ineda P. Adesanya, among others) Therese Taylor-Stinson et al. (editors), Embodied Spirits: Stories of Spiritual Directors of Color Serene Jones, Trauma and Grace: Theology in a Ruptured World Yūsuf Ībish and  Ileana Marculescu, eds., Contemplation and Action in World Religions Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have a Dream and the Letter from Birmingham Jail James Cone, The Cross and the Lynching Tree Brian McDermott, SJ, Word Become Flesh: Dimensions of Christology Ibram X. Kendi, Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America Howard Thurman, Jesus and the Disinherited Episode 61: Silence, Contemplation, and Justice: A Conversation with Therese Taylor-Stinson (Part Two) Hosted by: Carl McColman With: Cassidy Hall, Kevin Johnson Guest: Therese Taylor-Stinson Date Recorded: March 25, 2019  

Therese Taylor-Stinson is the co-editor of Embodied Spirits: Stories of Spiritual Directors of Color, and the editor of Ain’t Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around — Stories of Contemplation and Justice. She is an ordained deacon and elder in the Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), a lay pastoral caregiver, and a graduate of and an associate faculty member of the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation, where she previously served as a member of the board. She is the founder of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, an international, ecumenical/interfaith association of persons of color with a ministry of spiritual accompaniment. A native of Washington DC, she now lives in Maryland. Her ministry, like her books, explores the intersection of contemplative spirituality and the ongoing struggle for social justice and the dismantling of racism. I've always loved nature, I love trees... I love the ocean, I love the sunrise and the moonrise... those kinds of things bring me into silence in a kind of pondering and sitting with what we call 'God', but to me is more 'Mystery'." — Therese Taylor-Stinson In this first part of a two-part episode, Therese shares with us her early experience of contemplative silence, formed by her education in Catholic schools as well as her early encounters with the silence of nature. She goes on to show how her journey as a contemplative and a spiritual director has impacted her experience as a woman of color. Of particular interest is her insights into the contemplative dimension of the civil rights movement, particularly in terms of the under-appreciated contribution of Howard Thurman. "For some people of color, silence is uncomfortable — it feels oppressive or imposing,  it makes them go places or feel things they're not ready for, or that they aren't ready to express to me. We have to be really careful with silence... I don't know that silence is a requirement to find that still place within." — Therese Taylor-Stinson In the second half of today's episode, Therese offers insight into the contribution of people of color, not only to contemplative spirituality, but to Christianity as a whole — and how those contributions have been erased from history through the dynamics of racism — leading to a "silencing" toxic in its nature. This is part one of a two-part interview; to hear the second part of this conversation, click here. To learn more about the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, visit www.sdcnetwork.org. Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Therese Taylor-Stinson (ed.), Ain’t Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around — Stories of Contemplation and Justice (includes essays by Jacqueline Smith-Crooks, Lerita Coleman Brown, Maisie Sparks, Jung Eun Sophia Park, Soyinka Rahim, and Ineda P. Adesanya, among others) Therese Taylor-Stinson et al. (editors), Embodied Spirits: Stories of Spiritual Directors of Color Howard Thurman, Jesus and the Disinherited Lerita Coleman Brown, When the Heart Speaks, Listen: Discovering Inner Wisdom Maisie Sparks, Holy Shakespeare! Jung Eun Sophia Park, Border-Crossing Spirituality: Transformation in the Borderland  Soyinka Rahim, Bibo Love Ineda P. Adesanya, Kaleidoscope: Broadening the Palette in the Art of Spiritual Direction Martin Laird, An Ocean of Light: Contemplation, Transformation and Liberation Anonymous, The Cloud of Unknowing Barbara A. Holmes, Joy Unspeakable: Contemplative Practices of the Black Church Desert Fathers and Mothers, Early Christian Wisdom Sayings Tilden Edwards, Living in the Presence Thomas Keating, Open Mind, Open Heart: The Contemplative Dimension of the Gospel John Main, Door to Silence: An Anthology for Meditation Gay L. Byron,

Cynthia Bourgeault continues her conversation with the Encountering Silence team, offering insight into silence as a deeper way of knowing, contemplative Christianity as a unique spiritual path, and centering prayer as a singular practice of deep meditation. This is part two of a two-part interview. Click here to listen to part one. "There is no 'toxic' silence, because in real silence there is a power of presence... when you enter silence, you are never alone, you enter a luminous imaginal stream of help and reality at a higher order of being." — Cynthia Bourgeault "What has really capped and is a cancer in Christian spirituality nowadays... is the anger... the only antidote to toxic anger lies at the level of the unitive heart." — Cynthia Bourgeault She offers us a new way of thinking about what we have, in the past, referred to as "toxic silence" on this podcast. "There is no toxic silence," she declares, going on to draw a helpful distinction between true silence and what she describes as "a destroying of the voice." She also offers insight into what she sees as the important tasks facing our time as we seek to embrace new "artforms" of silence, as alternatives to some of the sexist, authoritarian, or obsolete ways in which silence has been practiced — or marginalized — in the past. Her thoughts on the challenges facing Christians today — particularly the temptation to give in to anger — seem particularly timely, not only for contemplatives but for all who seek to integrate spirituality with the demands of everyday life. Instead of anger and panic, she invites us to stand present, and to remain present with whatever arises, in fidelity to "the highest benchmark of love." "The highest benchmark of love, courtesy, generosity and beauty that is put into the world will never vanish from the world. And when it's time, it will restore itself instantly." — Cynthia Bourgeault Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Cynthia Bourgeault, Love is the Answer: What is the Question? Cynthia Bourgeault, Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening Cynthia Bourgeault, The Heart of Centering Prayer Cynthia Bourgeault, The Wisdom Jesus Cynthia Bourgeault, Love is Stronger Than Death Cynthia Bourgeault, The Meaning of Mary Magdalene Cynthia Bourgeault, The Wisdom Way of Knowing G. I. Gurdjieff, In Search of Being: The  Fourth Way to Consciousness Jakob Boehme, Genius of the Transcendent Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, The Divine Milieu Anonymous, The Cloud of Unknowing Thomas Keating, Reflections on the Unknowable John Chrysostom, On the Incomprehensible Nature of God Robert Bly, Iron John: A Book About Men William Meninger, The Loving Search for God: Contemplative Prayer and the Cloud of Unknowing George Fox, The Journal of George Fox Thomas Merton, Contemplative Prayer Pythagoras, The Golden Verses Plato, The Complete Works Doc Childre, The Heartmath Solution The Dalai Lama, Refining Gold: Stages in Buddhist Contemplative Practice Sigmund Freud, The Basic Writings of Sigmund Freud Carl Jung, The Portable Jung John Welwood, Toward a Psychology of Awakening Franz Kafka, The Complete Stories Richard Rohr, The Universal Christ Ilia Delio, The Unbearable Wholeness of Being: God, Evolution, and the Power of Love Bruno Barnhart, The Good Wine: Reading John from the Center Wallace Stevens, The Collected Poems Elias Marechal, Tears of An Innocent God Maurice Nicoll, Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky Episode 59: Encountering the Heart of Silence: A Conversation with Cynthia Bourgeault (P...

Cynthia Bourgeault has embraced silence and the contemplative life from a variety of perspectives: as a child in Quaker schools, as an Episcopal priest, as a student of the Gurdjieff "Fourth Way" and of centering prayer working with Fr. Thomas Keating, and now as a teacher both in her own Wisdom Schools and as part of the Living School. She is also the author of numerous books and a widely sought-after speaker and retreat leader. Joining us via Skype from Tucson shortly before she led a retreat, she offers a wide-ranging, insightful conversation on topics ranging from mysticism to inner transformation to the practical ways to develop contemplative culture in an ordinary neighborhood church — and why the local parish may not be the ideal environment for fostering deep interior work. This is part one of a two-part interview. When people gather in silence, a deeper kind of  collective, synergistic, numinous knowing unfolds. And that’s the only knowing that’s worth a damn, particularly when you’re working with the infinite. — Cynthia Bourgeault Cynthia shares how her love for silence originated with her early education in Quaker schools, where she recognized silence as a "liturgical expression and mode of divine communion." There she discovered silence not merely as the absence of noise, but as a sacred container of presence.  For her, after a long meandering journey from Christian Science to Episcopal ordination, she became (in her words) a "Trappist junkie" as she began to study centering prayer with Fr. Thomas Keating, which for her meant a coming home to the silence she had learned to love as a child. You can't do infinite truth in a dialogical, debating mode. — Cynthia Bourgeault She offers keen insight into the dynamic interplay not only between silence and religion, but also silence as a medium by which we can experience inner transformation — a rewiring of our inner "operating system" as we move from the dualistic consciousness that is encoded in our language to the radical nonduality that only contemplative silence can reveal. With insights into the relationship between silence and philosophy, silence and psychology (including the ways in which western psychology misunderstands silence), and how monastic practices have encoded rich tools for using silence as a way to access nondual seeing, Bourgeault offers a rich and compelling statement for how silence is literally crucial for human growth, development, wellness, and knowing. Centering Prayer, in complete alignment with the radically surrendered heart of Christ, offers Christians a way to jump into the deep luminous river of silence, and to know in a different way... it's a 100% Christian experience of the deeper waters of silence." — Cynthia Bourgeault Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Cynthia Bourgeault, Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening Cynthia Bourgeault, The Heart of Centering Prayer Cynthia Bourgeault, The Wisdom Jesus Cynthia Bourgeault, Love is Stronger Than Death Cynthia Bourgeault, The Meaning of Mary Magdalene Cynthia Bourgeault, The Wisdom Way of Knowing G. I. Gurdjieff, In Search of Being: The  Fourth Way to Consciousness Jakob Boehme, Genius of the Transcendent Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, The Divine Milieu Anonymous, The Cloud of Unknowing Thomas Keating, Reflections on the Unknowable John Chrysostom, On the Incomprehensible Nature of God Robert Bly, Iron John: A Book About Men William Meninger, The Loving Search for God: Contemplative Prayer and the Cloud of Unknowing George Fox, The Journal of George Fox Thomas Merton, Contemplative Prayer Pythagoras, The Golden Verses Plato, The Complete Works Doc Childre, The Heartmath Solution

Our conversation with contemplative author Martin Laird concludes with this episode. To hear part one, click here. To hear part two, click here. "In a spiritual path there are no 'outcomes assessments'." — Martin Laird After recording an interview with just Carl and Kevin, Fr. Martin graciously agreed to an additional recording session with all three of us. Today's episode features that second conversation, including Cassidy. Fr. Martin deepens and clarifies some of his thoughts on issues already discussed, including discerning the distinctions between secular mindfulness practices and Christian contemplative practices. "Simply being aware of thoughts as they go by — yes, that's fine. But who is doing the 'aware-ing'?" — Martin Laird Some of the resources and authors we mention in this conversation with Martin Laird: Martin Laird, Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation, Martin Laird, A Sunlit Absence: Silence, Awareness and Contemplation Martin Laird, An Ocean of Light: Contemplation, Transformation and Liberation. Martin Laird, Gregory of Nyssa and the Grasp of Faith R. S. Thomas, Collected Later Poems, 1988-2000 "This whole business of silence is B.S.-proof. It's not a contemplative mascara... The attraction to things spiritual, the attaction to silence, to contemplative practices or disciplines, can actually be a defense against what contemplation will make you face." — Martin Laird Episode 57: Silent Land, Luminous Ocean: A Conversation with Martin Laird (Part Three) Hosted by: Kevin Johnson With: Carl McColman, Cassidy Hall Guest: Fr. Martin Laird, OSA Date Recorded: February 25, 2019 "A self 'unselfed' of self is free, is fully created, and becomes a vehicle of compassion because it has overcome the sense of a separate self." — Martin Laird

Our conversation with contemplative author Martin Laird continues with this episode. To hear part one, click here. "What I mean by 'Contemplative' is ultimately overcoming the illusion of separation of God, and that illusion is sustained and maintained by inner noise in our head. And everything about our culture keeps our attention riveted there." — Martin Laird Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Martin Laird, Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation, Martin Laird, A Sunlit Absence: Silence, Awareness and Contemplation Martin Laird, An Ocean of Light: Contemplation, Transformation and Liberation. Martin Laird, Gregory of Nyssa and the Grasp of Faith Miguel Farias & Dr Catherine Wikholm, The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You? Evagrius Ponticus, The Praktikos & Chapters on Prayer John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent The Desert Mothers and Fathers, Early Christian Wisdom Sayings Bernard of Clairvaux, Selected Works Anonymous, The Cloud of Unknowing John of the Cross, Collected Works Meister Eckhart, Selected Writings John Ruusbroec, The Spiritual Espousals and Other Works Thomas Merton, Dialogues with Silence Thomas Keating, Open Mind, Open Heart: The Contemplative Dimension of the Gospel Richard Rohr, The Naked Now: Learning to See as the Mystics See Teresa of Ávila, The Interior Castle Howard Thurman, Essential Writings Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love Diarmaid MacCulloch, Silence: A Christian History "Life itself is too wild to be tamed by the social constructs that we try to shoehorn it into." — Martin Laird Episode 56: Silent Land, Luminous Ocean: A Conversation with Martin Laird (Part Two) Hosted by: Kevin Johnson With: Carl McColman Guest: Fr. Martin Laird, OSA Date Recorded: February 18, 2019 "In deepest silence the self is 'unselfed' of self... Silence 'unothers' the other." — Martin Laird  

Martin Laird is the author of three highly-regarded books on Christian contemplative spirituality: Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation, A Sunlit Absence: Silence, Awareness and Contemplation, and An Ocean of Light: Contemplation, Transformation and Liberation. He is an Augustinian friar, and Professor of Early Christian Studies at Villanova University. He is also the author of an academic monograph, Gregory of Nyssa and the Grasp of Faith. Father Martin lectures and leads retreats widely through the United States, the United Kingdom and Ireland. His books are deeply grounded in the Christian tradition and yet are accessible guides to how silence integrates into prayer and everyday life. Fr. Martin joined Carl and Kevin for a conversation over Skype, and a week later spoke with us again, this time with Cassidy joining us as well. Thanks to his generosity, this is our longest interview yet, and we hope our listeners will find insight and meaning in this thoughtful and perceptive conversation on silence and the spiritual life. The 'silent land' is you. — Martin Laird Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Martin Laird, Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation, Martin Laird, A Sunlit Absence: Silence, Awareness and Contemplation Martin Laird, An Ocean of Light: Contemplation, Transformation and Liberation. Martin Laird, Gregory of Nyssa and the Grasp of Faith Gregory of Nyssa, From Glory to Glory Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain and Makarios of Corinth, Compilers: The Philokalia, The Complete Text Volume One Volume Two Volume Three Volume Four Early Fathers from the Philokalia Writings from the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart Thomas Keating, Intimacy with God: An Introduction to Centering Prayer Cynthia Bourgeault, The Heart of Centering Prayer Laurence Freeman, Web of Silence: Letters to Meditators John Main, Door to Silence: An Anthology for Meditation John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent Carl Rogers, On Becoming a Person Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions The Desert Mothers and Fathers, Early Christian Wisdom Sayings Teresa of Ávila, Collected Works Volume 2: The Way of Perfection and The Interior Castle John of the Cross, Collected Works of St. John of the Cross Elias Marechal, Tears of an Innocent God Augustine, The Confessions of Saint Augustine Episode 55: Silent Land, Luminous Ocean: A Conversation with Martin Laird (Part One) Hosted by: Kevin Johnson With: Carl McColman Guest: Fr. Martin Laird, OSA Date Recorded: February 18, 2019

If silence could tell us a story about itself, what would it say? This could be the question that Jane Brox answers in her most recent book, Silence: A Social History of One of the Least Understood Elements in Our Lives (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2019). Brox is the award-winning author of several acclaimed works of literary nonfiction, including Brilliant: The Evolution of Artificial Light and Clearing Land: Legacies of the American Farm. In her fascinating study, Brox explores how silence impacts people both as individuals and as communities, by considering how silence has shaped two of the most archetypal institutions in western society: the monastery and the penitentiary. But she also considers the ways in which silence has particularly impacted the lives of women — both inside and outside such institutions. Silence has always been important to my life, partly because I'm a writer and to me, there's never enough silence when I'm working. Not only when I'm working at the page, but before and afterwards — that's the place in which the work grows. — Jane Brox Brox offers us tremendous insight into how silence is critical to her process as a creative writer. Having first encountered silence in her childhood on a farm, she grew up to embrace the writer's life, and discovering how essential silence has been to her ability to think — and create — in a comprehensive way. She talks about having a long-standing appreciation for Thomas Merton, which led to her organizing her book around his story — and the story of an obscure nineteenth-century convict from America's first penitentiary. But she also looks at how women have experienced silence in some very different ways from men's experience of silence. What emerged for Brox was a deepened appreciation for just how complex the human relationship to silence really is — that a simplistic distinction between "imposed silence" (in the penitentiary) and "chosen silence" (in the monastery) simply does not adequately reveal just how nuanced the social history of silence truly is. Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Jane Brox, Silence: A Social History of One of the Least Understood Elements in Our Lives Jane Brox, Brilliant: The Evolution of Artificial Light Jane Brox, Clearing Land: Legacies of the American Farm Jane Brox, Five Thousand Days Like This One: An American Family History Jane Brox, Here and Nowhere Else: Late Seasons of a Farm and its Family Thomas Merton, The Seven Storey Mountain Thomas Merton, The Sign of Jonas Thomas Merton, The Intimate Merton: His Life from His Journals Thomas Merton, A Life in Letters William Shakespeare, The Complete Works Benjamin Rush, The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush Eugenia Ginzburg, Journey Into the Whirlwind Sara Maitland, A Book of Silence Tillie Olsen, Silences Seamus Heaney, Field Work Agnes Day, Light in the Shoe Shop: A Cobbler's Contemplations Silence is an extreme place; and it's total exposure. Even the most balanced person is tested there. That's in part why people seek it, to see where they will go; that's in party why people flee it, because it's so terrifying. There's no protection in the silence... There's no place to  hide in silence. — Jane Brox Episode 54: The Social History of Silence: A Conversation with Jane Brox Hosted by: Kevin Johnson With: Cassidy Hall, Carl McColman Guest: Jane Brox Date Recorded: February 4, 2019

Today’s episode is part two of a two-part interview. Click here to listen to part one. Sr. Mary Margaret Funk, OSB continues her conversation with Cassidy, recorded at Sr. Meg's monastery in Beech Grove, IN. Toward the end of the conversation, Kevin, Carl (and Carl's wife, Fran) joined the conversation via Skype. "In Mepkin Abbey we all have to drink our coffee together... you can't take your coffee cup to your room...  the first day I resented it, I said 'nobody messes with my coffee'... the second day, I just sat there and drank the coffee; the third day, I actually listened to the birds wake up, the third day I noticed who also was in the room; the fourth day I actually tasted silence, and I brought that back home with me." — Mary Margaret Funk, OSB She reflects on how Jesus represents a path from violence to healing, plays more music on her recorders, muses on the best practice for interreligious dialogue ("practice your own faith and understand others"), and leads Cassidy on an exercise for training attentiveness. Kevin and Carl ask Sr. Meg additional questions about interspiritual practice, on cultivating an "ethos of silence" in the church, and how to best teach the practice of silence in our time — particularly the question of contemplative teaching online. Sr. Meg rounds out her conversation with a wonderful description of "five cups of coffee" that illustrate her encounter with silence and the presence of God. Don't miss it! "If I could put what I believe about God in fewer than 200 words, it would be this: Jesus is the way for us to shift from violence to healing..." — Mary Margaret Funk, OSB Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Mary Margaret Funk, Thoughts Matter Mary Margaret Funk, Tools Matter Mary Margaret Funk, Humility Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Lectio Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Discernment Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Renouncing Violence Mary Margaret Funk, Islam Is Jim Forest, At Play in the Lion's Den: A Biography and Memoir of Daniel Berrigan Daniel Berrigan, Essential Writings The Dalai Lama, My Spiritual Journey The Desert Mothers and Fathers, Early Christian Wisdom Sayings John Cassian, The Institutes John Cassian, The Conferences Thomas Merton, Silence, Joy Evagrius Ponticus, The Greek Ascetic Corpus Thomas Keating, Invitation to Love: The Way of Christian Contemplation Paul Ricoeur, Memory, History, Forgetting Thérèse of Lisieux, The Story of a Soul Pedro Arrupe, Essential Writings The Glencairn Sisters, Glencairn Abbey: A Year in the Life Episode 53: Silence Matters: A Conversation with Sr. Mary Margaret Funk, OSB (Part Two) Hosted by: Cassidy Hall With: Kevin Johnson, Carl McColman Special Guest: Fran McColman Guest: Mary Margaret Funk, OSB Date Recorded: February 5, 2019

Mary Margaret Funk, OSB, is a member of Our Lady of Grace Monastery in Beech Grove, Indiana. She entered this Benedictine community in 1961 and served as the prioress from 1985 to 1993. In 1994 Sister Meg became the Executive Director of the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue Board. She has been in formal dialogue with people of the Hindu, Zen Buddhist, Islamic, Confucian, and Taoist traditions. She holds graduate degrees from Catholic University (1973) and Indiana University (1979). She is a graduate of Epiphany Certification Program of Formative Spirituality (2002). She received a grant from the Lilly Foundation to explore the history of Christian spirituality and its ongoing relevant to women religious today. "Music is the closest thing there is to silence, actually; it's a way to taste silence." — Sister Mary Margaret Funk, OSB Sr. Meg is the author of numerous books, including the "Matters Series" books on traditional Christian spirituality: Thoughts Matter: Discovering the Spiritual Journey, Tools Matter: Beginning the Spiritual Journey, Humility Matters: Toward Purity of Heart, Lectio Matters: Before the Burning Bush, and Discernment Matters: Listening with the Ear of the Heart. Her other books include Renouncing Violence: Practice from the Monastic Tradition and Islam Is: An Experience of Dialogue and Devotion. When we approached Sister Meg to invite her to join our conversation on silence, we were delighted to learn that her monastery is only a short drive from Cassidy's new home in Indiana! So this episode was recorded by Cassidy in person at the music room of Our Lady of Grace Monastery. In part two of this interview, Kevin and Carl — and Carl's wife, Fran — joined the conversation via Skype. "Solitude gives you a house in which to be silent." — Sister Mary Margaret Funk, OSB Sr. Meg is a gifted teacher, and our conversation quickly turned into a lesson in spiritual history and practice. Using the themes of her books as an organizing principle, Sr. Meg skillfully explained the central role that silence plays to Benedictine spirituality — and indeed to Christian spirituality as a whole. And while her insights dove deep into her "home tradition" of Christian spirituality, her years of insight into interreligious dialogue added a richness and depth to her reflections on how Christians and persons of other faiths can learn from one another — and how honoring the integrity of their own traditions enhances interfaith dialogue. As if all this weren't enough, Sr. Meg is also an amateur musician, and played several tunes for us on her tenor and alto recorders! She now has the distinction of being our first guest to explore silence not only with her words, but with her music as well. Today’s episode is part one of a two-part interview. Click here to listen to part two. "Everybody knows what violence is, but they don't know what renouncing is." — Sister Mary Margaret Funk Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Mary Margaret Funk, Thoughts Matter Mary Margaret Funk, Tools Matter Mary Margaret Funk, Humility Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Lectio Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Discernment Matters Mary Margaret Funk, Renouncing Violence Mary Margaret Funk, Islam Is St. Benedict, The Rule of Saint Benedict John Cassian, The Institutes John Cassian, The Conferences The Dalai Lama, The Art of Happiness Evagrius Ponticus, The Greek Ascetic Corpus Pseudo-Macarius, The Fifty Spiritual Homilies Columba Stewart, Prayer and Community Henri de Lubac, Medieval Exegesis, Volume I Henri de Lubac, Medieval Exegesis, Volume II Henri de Lubac, Medieval Exegesis, Volume III

Today’s episode is part two of a two-part interview. Click here to listen to part one. Our conversation continues with Shirley Hershey Showalter, the author of Blush: A Mennonite Girl Meets a Glittering World. Singing is to a Mennonite what silence is to a Quaker. For me, singing is a way of bringing silence and voice together. — Shirley Hershey Showalter She grew up "a barefoot girl" on a Mennonite farm near Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where her ancestors tilled the soil for generations. Speaking of her childhood, she describes her earliest encounters with silence as embedded in the experience of the vast spaciousness of the farm. Her memoir explored the tension she experienced "in the silence of her own heart" between the traditional culture of the Mennonites and her desire to discover her own voice as a teenager and young woman in the 1960s — ultimately choosing to embrace her Mennonite identity, but very much on her own terms. Being here in the Shenandoah Valley, looking out at the mountains, every morning it's part of my spiritual practice to just sit in my red chair and look at the mountains. — Shirley Hershey Showalter Our conversation in today's episode begins with looking at the affinity between Anabaptist/Mennonite spirituality and Benedictine or monastic spirituality, including the spirituality of Celtic Christians. She shares how Irish mystic/poet John O'Donohue wrote eloquently of the contemplative nature of the mountains. She reveals why she came to call her memoir Blushand reveals who her silence heroes are (one living, one from history). She speaks about her most recent joy — encouraging people in their "final third of love" to find joy, jubilation, and a renewed sense of purpose." Find Shirley Hershey Showalter online at www.shirleyshowalter.com. To learn more about Threshold Choirs, visit www.thresholdchoir.org. At a Mennonite conference I heard someone say, "Mennonites try to take monasticism into the family." — Shirley Hershey Showalter Today’s episode is part two of a two-part interview. Click here to listen to part one. Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Shirley Hershey Showalter, Blush: A Mennonite Girl Meets a Glittering World Thomas Merton, New Seeds of Contemplation Menno Simon, The Complete Writings Michael Sattler, The Legacy of Michael Sattler Parker J. Palmer, On the Brink of Everything Judith Valente, How to Live: What the Rule of Saint Benedict Teaches Us About Happiness, Meaning and Community John O'Donohue, Walking in Wonder Susan Cain, Quiet Dacher Keltner, The Power Paradox Willa Cather, Death Comes for the Archbishop Willa Cather, The Song of the Lark Willa Cather, O Pioneers! Marc Freedman, How to Live Forever Isabel Allende, The Sum of Our Days: A Memoir Episode 51: Simplicity and Silence: A Conversation with Shirley Hershey Showalter (Part Two) Hosted by: Carl McColman Guest: Shirley Hershey Showalter With: Cassidy Hall, Kevin Johnson Date Recorded: January 28, 2019

What is the relationship between silence and simplicity? Silence and peace? Or, for that matter, how does silence relate to the importance of our voice — as human beings in general, but especially for writers or for people whose voices have traditionally bee marginalized, such as women or those who live in traditional rural settings? These are some of the questions we explore with Shirley Hershey Showalter, the author of Blush: A Mennonite Girl Meets a Glittering World Jesus giving his life actually is a form of helping us to find peace within ourselves, and peace with the world, and peace with all other humans and creatures in the world. — Shirley Hershey Showalter She grew up "a barefoot girl" on a Mennonite farm near Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where her ancestors tilled the soil for generations. Speaking of her childhood, she describes her earliest encounters with silence as embedded in the experience of the vast spaciousness of the farm. Her memoir explored the tension she experienced "in the silence of her own heart" between the traditional culture of the Mennonites and her desire to discover her own voice as a teenager and young woman in the 1960s — ultimately choosing to embrace her Mennonite identity, but very much on her own terms. I don't dress differently from other people today, but I hope that I am nonconformed to the world — that I am able to withstand the temptations of the violence of the world — of frivolity, and noise. Those are the things that I try to extract from the  teachings about plainness that I grew up with. — Shirley Hershey Showalter After being the first in her family to attend college, she joined the faculty of Goshen College, a Mennonite college in Indiana, eventually serving as that institution’s first woman president. From there she became an executive with the Fetzer Institute. She now is engaged in what she calls her “encore vocation” of writing and helping others to celebrate what she calls jubilación — the art of aging joyfully. Our conversation explored not only how silence informed both her faith and the simple joy of growing up on a traditional farm, but also how the "plain" culture of Anabaptist Christianity gave her an appreciation both of the beauty of silence and the power of words. She reflects on how the "plain" culture of the Mennonites — an effort to follow Christ by being nonconformed to the world — not only meant for her embracing the traditional Anabaptist commitment to peace, but also avoiding the noise of the world in which we live. This is part one of a two part episode — to listen to part two, click here. Find Shirley Hershey Showalter online at www.shirleyshowalter.com. When peace is associated with silence at the center, then one becomes aware of the many people who don't have the luxury of peace, or the luxury of silence. — Shirley Hershey Showalter Some of the resources and authors we mention in this episode: Shirley Hershey Showalter, Blush: A Mennonite Girl Meets a Glittering World Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love Gerard Manley Hopkins, Poems and Prose Episode 50: Simplicity and Silence: A Conversation with Shirley Hershey Showalter (Part One) Hosted by: Carl McColman Guest: Shirley Hershey Showalter With: Cassidy Hall, Kevin Johnson Date Recorded: January 28, 2019

"Doesn't everything die at last, and too soon?" asks Mary Oliver in  her poem "The Summer Day." On January 17, 2019, her many fans — including the co-hosts of this podcast — discovered just how real this question was, as we reeled from the news of Oliver's death at the age of 83. Even before the podcast was launched in late 2017, Mary Oliver was on our dream list of persons we would like to interview. The word on the street was that she rarely gave interviews, but we remained optimistic, periodically sending her requests in the hope that one day she would say yes. Even as recently as our 2018 End of Year Episode, we confessed that Oliver was the one person we most wanted to interview. Less than three weeks after that episode was released, Oliver passed away due to lymphoma. Well — we may not have fulfilled our dream of interviewing Mary Oliver, but we did the next best thing: in today's episode we reflect together on our shared love for this most popular of contemporary poets — from Cassidy, who has loved Oliver's work for years, to Carl, who began reading Oliver because of Cassidy's and Kevin's love for her work. While poetry has become an increasingly important theme of this podcast, we remain devoted primarily to a conversation about silence, so naturally this episode includes some thoughts on the most mysterious silence of all: the silence of death. The poems we mention on this episode include: "The Summer Day" from House of Light "Wild Geese" from Dream Work "Moments" from Felicity "What I Said at Her Service" from Thirst "Whistling Swans" from Felicity "Gethsemane" from Thirst "One or Two Things" from Dream Work "The Fourth Sign of the Zodiac" from Blue Horses "In Blackwater Woods" from American Primitive Among the many books we love by Mary Oliver: Mary Oliver, No Voyage and Other Poems Mary Oliver, The River Styx, Ohio, and Other Poems Mary Oliver, The Night Traveler Mary Oliver, Twelve Moons Mary Oliver, American Primitive Mary Oliver, Dream Work Mary Oliver, House of Light Mary Oliver, A Poetry Handbook Mary Oliver, White Pine: Poems and Prose Poems Mary Oliver, Blue Pastures Mary Oliver, West Wind: Poems and Prose Poems Mary Oliver, Rules for the Dance: A Handbook for Writing and Reading Metrical Verse Mary Oliver, Winter Hours: Prose, Prose Poems, and Poems Mary Oliver, The Leaf and the Cloud Mary Oliver, What Do We Know: Poems and Prose Poems Mary Oliver, Owls and Other Fantasies: Poems and Essays Mary Oliver, Blue Iris: Poems and Essays Mary Oliver, Long Life: Essays and Other Writings Mary Oliver, Why I Wake Early: New Poems Mary Oliver, At Blackwater Pond: Mary Oliver Reads Mary Oliver Mary Oliver, Thirst Mary Oliver, Our World with photographs by Molly Malone Cook Mary Oliver, Red Bird Mary Oliver, The Truro Bear and Other Adventures: Poems and Essays Mary Oliver, Evidence Mary Oliver, Swan: Poems and Prose Poems Mary Oliver, A Thousand Mornings: Poems Mary Oliver, Dog Songs Mary Oliver, Blue Horses Mary Oliver, Felicity Mary Oliver, Upstream: Selected Essays Mary Oliver, Devotions: The Selected Poems Kevin also mentioned the Buddhist poet Jane Hirshfield, author of Nine Gates: Entering the MInd of Poetry. Episode 49: Celebrating the Life and Poetry of Mary Oliver Hosted by: Cassidy Hall With: Carl McColman, Kevin Johnson Date Recorded: January 21, 2019