Mountain & Prairie Podcast

Duke Phillips III is the founder and CEO of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based, family-owned ranch management company. If Ranchlands sounds familiar, that’s because last week’s episode was with Duke’s son, Duke Phillips IV. You may remember that the younger Duke referenced his father’s philosophies around business and leadership several times, so I thought it would be fun to have the elder Duke on the podcast for an in-depth conversation. And in-depth it was—in a little under an hour we covered a wide range of subjects, everything from the future of ranching to world travels to poetry. • Duke has led a fascinating life, starting with his early years spent growing up on a remote cattle ranch in rural Mexico. His twenties were devoted to traveling and working around the world, including places like Europe, Central America, Australia, and the Bering Sea. Around age thirty he started his first “real job” in ranching, which eventually led to the formation of his company Ranchlands. Since its beginnings over two decades ago, Ranchlands has set a new standard what is possible when ranching, conservation, education, and business are successfully combined. And Ranchlands partnership with Colorado’s State Land Board is a case study in effective, mutually beneficial public-private partnerships. • I caught up with Duke on the phone, where he was gracious enough to take time away from one of his New Mexico operations to chat with me. We started by talking about his childhood in Mexico and the lessons he learned from growing up in such a wild and remote landscape. Then we discussed the series of travels and jobs that led to his founding Ranchlands in his mid-forties. From there, our conversation hits on a variety of subjects, including the joys of working with his kids, Duke III and Tess, the ins-and-outs of the bison ranching business, and his thoughts on the recent popularity of regenerative agriculture. There’s minimal overlap between the topics covered in this conversation and my conversation with young Duke, so be sure to check the episode notes for a full list of all the interesting information discussed. • Palmer Land Trust will be honoring Duke and his family at the 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. It’s going to be a fun and inspiring evening, so follow the link in the episode notes for more information and tickets. Hope to see you there! • Enjoy the podcast! ••• https://www.palmerlandtrust.org/2019-scca Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/duke-phillips-iii/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - Where Duke grew up 6:30 - Lessons learned from growing up in Mexico 8:30 - Having patience with those new to ranching 9:45 - Leaving Mexico 11:50 - World travels and adventures in his 20s 14:30 - First “real job” 15:45 - Lead-up to Chico Basin 17:00 - Ranchlands explained 22:00- Ranchlands’ grazing philosophy 26:00 - Joys of working with Tess and Duke IV 27:30 - Keys to running a successful family business 29:30 - Keeping kids humble 31:20 - Importance of positivity in life and business 35:00 - Importance of honesty in business 37:40 - Successful partnerships with Colorado’s State Board and The Nature Conservancy 41:30 - Running a bison ranch 45:00 - Regenerative agriculture 48:30 - Heroes and mentors 52:00 - The future of ranching 54:00 - Favorite books and poetry 56:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience

Duke Phillips IV is the Chief Operating Officer of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based ranching and ranch management company that is widely celebrated for its deep conservation ethic. Duke oversees all operations across Ranchlands’ properties, which include the renowned 87,000-acre Chico Basin Ranch and the 103,000-acre Medano Zapata Ranch. Working closely with his father Duke III and his sister Tess, the Duke and his family share a commitment to long-term land stewardship, and they embody the Ranchlands philosophy of “Working together to live with the land.” • As part of a multi-generational ranching family in southeastern Colorado, Duke grew up with one foot in the ranching culture and the other in a more traditional life of school, sports, and typical childhood activities. After college, he decided to return to the family business, where he began to work his way up through the ranks to his current role of COO. Along the way, he learned lessons in leadership, humility, conservation, stockmanship, and business, many of which he shares with me during this conversation. Duke is one of the more humble and understated people I’ve met, especially when considering all that he’s accomplished so early into his career. • I met Duke out at the Chico where we sat around his kitchen table and chatted-- and it was truly a delightful conversation. We talked about the operations at their ranches, delving into some of the details around their breed of cattle, the Beefmaster. We discussed the apprentice and intern programs at Ranchlands, and why he and his family value teaching and educating both the general public and the next generation of land stewards. We discussed Duke’s thoughts on leadership and the importance of being humble and calm in all situations. He also explains Ranchlands open gate policy, and how that philosophy differs from some of the conventional wisdom around access to land in the West. We also discuss books, his heroes and mentors, flying helicopters, lessons learned from living and working internationally, and much more. • Finally, I wanted to mention that Ranchlands will be honored at Palmer Land Trust’s 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. We’ll be debuting a short film about the Phillips family that highlights some of their innovative conservation work throughout the state. If you’re interested in attending, follow the link in the episode notes for more information. I guarantee it will be an inspiring and fun evening. • There are many important lessons to be learned from this conversation with Duke-- check the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed. Hope you enjoy! ••• https://mountainandprairie.com/duke-phillips-iv/ https://www.palmerlandtrust.org/2019-scca ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - Background on Chico Basin 6:00 - Chico Basin’s open gate policy 8:00 - Education and birding programs on the ranch 11:15 - Background on open gate policy 14:00 - Beefmaster cattle breed 19:00 - Ideal characteristics of the Beefmaster breed 22:15 - Good books about grazing and ranching 23:30 - How travel and education have shaped their business 25:00 - Finishing high school and starting college 28:00 - Choice to study liberal arts 30:00 - Internship and apprentice program 34:00 - Traits Duke looks for in employees 40:00 - Duke’s evolution as a leader 42:00 - Importance of good communication 44:00 - Heroes and mentors 49:00 - Importance of being positive 54:00 - Importance of controlling anger 56:30 - Favorite books 59:00 - Flying helicopters and planes 1:01:30 - Using helicopters in ranching 1:03:10 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:07:30 - Favorite place in the West

This episode is a special recording from a Mountain & Prairie live podcast in Bozeman, Montana. On August 30th more than 300 folks gathered at the historic Ellen Theatre in downtown Bozeman to watch, listen, and participate in a wide-ranging conversation with four amazing women of the West—hat-maker and farmer Cate Havstad; silversmith and all-around artist Jillian Lukiwski; adventure photographer and writer Becca Skinner; and rancher and county commissioner Juanita Vero. We also held a raffle that benefited the Montana Land Reliance and the critical conservation work it is doing throughout the state of Montana. • The show started out with a hilarious, high-energy welcome from the amazing Becca Frucht, who is one of the funniest and most unique human beings I’ve ever met. Then I spent about an hour and fifteen minutes asking the women questions about their lives, work, and shared love of western landscapes. After that, we had some excellent questions from the audience, followed by a few words from the Jessie Weisse from the Montana Land Reliance. As you’ll hear, a good bit of our conversation centered around the land, conservation, and agriculture, so it was very fitting that the Montana Land Reliance was such an important part of the evening. My only complaint about the event is that I wish it could’ve been much longer—as you’d expect, we only scratched the surface of all the fascinating topics we could’ve discussed. • A heartfelt thank you to Cate, Jillian, Becca, and Juanita for being so open, thoughtful, and funny with all of their answers—the evening would not have been even a fraction of the success it was without their participation. Thanks to Becca Frucht for her energizing welcome and for figuring out a way to work Road House into her remarks. Thank you to the Montana Land Reliance for all of their important work throughout the state and for being part of the evening. A huge thanks to our sponsors—Chris Dombrowski Fly Fishing, Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Onda Wellness, Modern Huntsman, Beargrass Writing Retreat, Heyday, Head West Bozeman, and Big Agnes. And last but definitely not least, thanks to everyone who attended the event—I know we had people travel to Bozeman from many other states and even Canada for the show, so I can’t thank you all enough for being such important members of this podcast community. • It was truly a night to remember, and I’m excited to do more live shows in 2020, so stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, enjoy this audio version of the Mountain & Prairie Podcast, live in Bozeman! ••• Notes and photos: https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman-live/ MLR: http://mtlandreliance.org ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - Welcome from the great Becca Frucht 8:30 - A few words from Ed 11:30 - Quick intros 13:00 - Update on Cate’s involvement in farming 15:30- Juanita’s entrance into county politics 20:00 - Jillian’s evolving connection to her place 21:00 - Becca’s immersion in private land conservation 27:30 - Juanita’s thoughts on private land conservation 32:00 - Jillian discusses the importance of hard work and adventure in wild places 35:30 - Cate discusses the business realities of farming 44:00 - Jillian and Becca talk about “putting herself out there” 47:30 - Using social media productively 50:00 - Other places the ladies would choose to live 55:30 - Best books read in the past year 1:01:30 - How their husbands/partners bolster them as individuals 1:06:30 - Jillian’s “Big Enough Theory” 1:12:00 - Q&A - Mentors and mentoring 1:17:00 - Q&A - Roots to the past in the women’s trades 1:20:30 - Q&A - Role of horses in the ladies lives 1:28:00 - Q&A - Balancing development and conservation in Montana 1:35:30 - Q&A - How do we connect people with their food 1:40:15 - A few words from the Montana Land Reliance

William deBuys is a renowned writer and conservationist farmer who is known as one of the most influential thinkers in the modern-day American West. To call Bill prolific would be a blatant understatement—a few of his many books include “The Walk,” “A Great Aridness,” “River of Traps,” and “The Last Unicorn.” For more than 40 years, Bill has owned and tended a small farm in the Sangre de Cristo mountains of northern New Mexico, a property that has heavily influenced his life, work, and appreciation for land. I was fortunate enough to meet Bill at his farm for this interview, which was a thrill and an experience I won’t soon forget. • Bill was born and raised on the east coast but moved to New Mexico after college to take a job as a research assistant with writer Robert Coles. Bill found himself immersed in the arid landscape of the American Southwest and very quickly fell in love with the people, culture, and terrain. From then on, Bill’s life and work centered around the land, whether earning his Ph.D., working for the Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund, or pursuing full-time writing. His life serves as an inspiring case study of how to meld on-the-ground conservation work with high-level aspirational writing and journalism. • My biggest challenge with this conversation was figuring out how to fit five hours of questions into a single hour! We start by discussing how Bill ended up in New Mexico, and then chat a good bit about his farm. We discuss lessons learned from his work in land conservation, and techniques he uses to find common ground among competing stakeholders. We talk a lot about his writing process and routine, including Bill's excellent advice related to the technical and psychological aspects of writing. We also discuss several of his books, and how writing each book has influenced his perspective and appreciation for his beloved New Mexico home. Bill offers up a useful and completely unique technique for summoning gratitude, a practice I believe we all can benefit from. And as usual, we discuss his favorite books, his favorite location in the West, and the best advice he ever received. • It was a dream come true to spend time with Bill at his farm, so I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Be sure the check the episode notes for links to everything we discussed! ••• http://williamdebuys.com Notes & Resources: https://mountainandprairie.com/william-debuys/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:30 - El Valle, New Mexico, described 5:45 - How Bill ended up in New Mexico 10:30 - Work with The Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund 12:30 - Lessons learned from conservation work 14:30 - Early writing experience 15:25 - Looking back at old work 16:30 - Understanding and appreciating “place” 19:45 - How Bill wrote “The Walk” 22:15 - Dealing with feedback on his writing 23:15 - The writer’s mindset 24:30 - Bill’s writing process 29:00 - Decision to focus mostly on writing 30:15 - Discussion of his book “A Great Aridness” 34:25 - Actionable ideas for dealing with climate change 38:00 - Valles Caldera Trust 42:00 - Techniques for finding common grounds 45:30 - “The Last Unicorn” and other international adventures 46:50 - Influentials writers and thinkers 49:00 - Teaching and its influence on his work 51:00 - Favorite books 53:00 - Practice of writing down all the “aunts and uncles” 55:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 56:10 - Threats to ANWR and the Rio Grand corridor 59:25 - Favorite location in the West 59:30 - Best advice ever received

Emilene Ostlind is a Wyoming-based journalist and storyteller whose work focuses on the landscapes, natural resources, and communities of the American West. She may be best known for her work studying and documenting the long-distance migration of pronghorn antelope from Grand Teton National Park down into the Green River Valley—a topic that was the basis for her graduate school thesis, as well as her award-winning High Country News cover story about the "Path of the Pronghorn.” Emilene is also the editor of "Western Confluence," an amazingly informative, entertaining, and free magazine published by the University of Wyoming’s Ruckelshaus Institute of Environment and Natural Resources. And if all of that is not enough, she is also working closely on the production of an upcoming documentary called "Deer 139," which tells the story of a mule deer’s migration across Wyoming and a researcher’s attempt to follow that same path on foot. • Emilene grew up at the base of the Big Horn Mountains in Wyoming, a third-generation Wyomingite from a family closely connected to ranching and the land. After earning her undergraduate degree from the University of Wyoming, she landed a job in Washington DC with National Geographic, where she learned first hand the power of storytelling as a means of communicating important, complex issues. She returned to the University of Wyoming for a graduate degree in creative nonfiction writing, with a focus on understanding and documenting pronghorns’ migration patterns throughout her home state. Along with photographer Joe Riis, they explored the mountains of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, shedding light on one of the lower 48’s last remaining big game migration corridors. • If you’ve enjoyed my conversations with folks like Dan Flores and Bryce Andrews, then you’ll love this episode. We dig deep into the specifics of pronghorns and discuss why they are one of the more interesting and impressive North American mammals. We talk about how Emilene initially became interested in pronghorn migrations, and how the project began and played out over several years. We also discuss her work editing "Western Confluence" and the 2018 book "Wild Migrations." As you’d expect, we discuss her upbringing in Wyoming, her career path in storytelling, and she offers some excellent advice for aspiring journalists who’d like to follow a similar path. And of course we discuss favorite books, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all of those—there are a lot of new titles. • I encourage you to subscribe to "Western Confluence"—it’s totally free which is quite a deal when you consider just how much you’ll learn from reading it. ••• Episode Notes - https://mountainandprairie.com/emilene-ostlind/ "Western Confluence” - https://www.westernconfluence.org "Wild Migrations” - https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Migrations-Atlas-Wyomings-Ungulates/dp/0870719432 "Deer 139” - https://www.deer139film.org ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:30 - Emilene’s family history in Wyoming 7:00 - Her life-long interest in storytelling 8:00 - Experience at National Geographic 12:30 - Heading back West from DC 13:30 - Genesis of pronghorn migration idea 15:00 - Applying to grad school 17:00 - "Path of the Pronghorn" 21:50 - Pronghorns explained 26:30 - Reception of “Path of the Pronghorn” by the general public 30:00 - Steps that landowners can take to help animal migrations 35:00 - Wyoming as a last major migration corridor 37:30 - "Deer 139" 41:20 - Storytelling through film 44:45 - Western Confluence 50:00 - Mentors, heroes, and books 53:30 - "Wild Migrations” 56:40 - Advice to aspiring storytellers 59:45 - Favorite books about the West 1:01:00 - Favorite films 1:02:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:03:40 - Favorite location in the West `1:05:00 - Best advice she’s ever received 1:06:15 - Request of the listeners 1:07:40 - Connect with Emilene

If you listened to the previous episode, then you know that I'm mixing things up a bit. This is Part 2 of a two-part series in which I'm the one in the hot seat. It's a repost of my recent appearance on the "Truth & Dare" podcast, a wonderfully inspiring show that features in-depth conversations about personal growth, risk-taking, and living life to the fullest. • In the first part of this two-part series, you'll remember a detailed discussion around my professional interests—land, water, and agriculture. This conversation on Truth & Dare is equally detailed and deep, but focused almost exclusively on my personal life—my journey from North Carolina to the West, my obsession with long-distance running, the crazy way that I met my wife, lessons learned for a semester of NOLS, how my wife and girls' influence has made me a much better person, and much more. Many of the books and ideas that we've discussed on Mountain & Prairie play a big role in my personal evolution from wanna-be real estate developer to conservationist, so I wanted to share this with you all. • As you'll hear, the host Camden is a curious, kind, and natural conversationalist who likes to talk deeply about subjects of substance—not surface-level nonsense. I was turned on to her podcast when she interviewed my friend—artist, surfer, and family-man Kevin Mirsky—and I was thrilled and a little nervous when she asked me to join her on the show. But we had an instant connection and a great conversation that I hope you'll enjoy. But regardless of my episode, if you are interested in personal growth and stories of people who have taken unconventional paths, you should definitely give Truth & Dare a listen. • A huge thanks again to Camden for having me on, thanks to you all for listening, and I'll be back with regular Mountain & Prairie episodes in the next few days. ••• https://camdenhoch.com https://camdenhoch.com/podcast/

This episode is a little different—it's part one of a two-part series in which I'm the one in the hot seat. It's a repost of my recent appearance on the Quivira Coalition's excellent podcast named "Down to Earth - The Planet to Plate Podcast." They were nice enough to invite me on to discuss some of my conservation work at Palmer Land Trust, particularly around our focus of conserving irrigated farmland in southeastern Colorado. It's fascinating work that hits on many of the issues we've previously discussed here on Mountain & Prairie—water rights, pressures facing agricultural communities, holistic approaches to resource management, balancing the needs of agriculture with that of municipalities, and more. It's what I spend the vast majority of my time doing, and I hope you'll find it interesting and informative. • Regardless of whether or not you listen to my episode, I highly encourage you to check out Down to Earth. The host Mary-Charlotte is a journalistic pro who likes to dive deep in the nuances of agriculture and has interviewed some of the most impressive people working in agriculture today (present company excluded). If you've enjoyed my past episodes with folks like Jim Howell, Pat O'Toole, Christine Su, and, of course, Quivira Executive Director Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, then I can guarantee you'll love the "Down to Earth" podcast. There's a link to Down to Earth in the episode notes, so be sure to check it out and give them a great iTunes review if you're so inclined. • Thanks again to Down to Earth for being interested in my work, and thanks to you all for listening. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. Hope you enjoy! ••• http://downtoearth.media https://quiviracoalition.org

Morgan Irons is a Montana-based artist whose captivating oil paintings combine the classic style of late 19th-century painters with her own modern-day interpretation of the West’s people and places. When I first discovered Morgan’s art, I assumed I was looking at the work of a classically trained artist who’d been in the trenches of painting for decades… and I couldn’t have been more wrong! Morgan has only been painting since 2015, with virtually no artistic training prior. Her innate talent is matched only by her work ethic and commitment to the craft—she has built her life around the process of making art, which is inspiring and instructive for anyone with creative aspirations. • Morgan was born in Durango and spent her youth in various parts of the West, including Alaska and Idaho. After college in the flat midwest, she immediately returned to more rugged landscapes, working in Alaska and eventually landing in Bozeman. She tried her hand at a “normal” job but found the corporate world to be uninspiring and frustrating. So rather than wallow and complain, she moved on from that job and soon thereafter, discovered her talent for painting. Since then, she’s gone all-in on her career as an artist, and she is building quite a strong following in the art world. • If you are a person who dreams of pursuing your creative passion full time, then you will love this episode—it’s full of actionable ideas around art and the creative process. We talk about the remote cabin where Morgan lives and paints, and why she needs solitude and open spaces for maximum creative output. We discuss her daily routine and how she primes her artistic mindset through hiking, meditation, and writing. We also discuss how she blocks out distractions and her techniques for using the productive aspects of social media while avoiding the time-wasting traps. We obviously talk about the point when she discovered her talent for painting and how she has honed that talent through workshops and mentorships from top painters. Finally, Morgan tells some great stories about hunting for ghosts with her dad, her favorite books, a bear that broke into her car, and the importance of having no “Plan B.” Enjoy! ••• https://www.morganirons.com https://mountainandprairie.com/morgan-irons/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 5:00 - Where Morgan is based 6:00 - Why Morgan likes solitude 8:00 - Balancing technology—productivity vs. distraction 11:00 - Morgan’s younger years 12:00 - Heading to college in St. Louis 14:30 - Family history in Alaska 17:30 - Job in Alaska 22:00 - Lessons learned in Alaska 23:00 - Moving in Bozeman 25:15 - Discovering art 27:00 - Buying paint and starting to make art 30:00 - Feelings during the process of painting 32:30 - Learning from the masters while keeping the originality 35:30 - Formal learning from world-class artists 38:00 - Learning from fellow students as well as professors 40:00 - Daily routines 44:00 - Meditation practice 46:30 - Balancing friendships with her need for solo time 50:00 - How the West shapes her work 53:30 - Mentors and artists Morgan admires 56:00 - A non-painting artist who Morgan admires 58:30 - How her psychology degree has helped her art 1:00:00 - Favorite books 1:04:00 - Ghost hunting! 1:08:30 - Crazy bear encounter 1:12:00 - Words of wisdom 1:14:30 - Connect with Morgan online

Heather Hansman is a freelance writer and editor whose work explores the intersection of science, adventure, and culture. Her new book Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West should be required reading for everyone who enjoys this podcast—it strikes the perfect balance of being entertaining and educational while examining all sides of the many issues facing the West's water supply. There are few topics in the West as divisive and emotional as water, and in her book, Heather provides a balanced overview of all the issues, delving deep into the substance of water-related arguments, without crossing over into the mind-numbing jargon that defines most water-related writing. • The book follows Heather's 730-mile float down the length of the Green River, starting at the base of Wyoming's Wind River mountains and ending at the confluence of the Green and Colorado Rivers in Utah. Along the way, she meets with a wide range of western water stakeholders—ranchers, farmers, river guides, government employees, scientists, conservationists, and more—and digs into their sometimes competing interests fighting for their shares of water in the West. But the book is far from an academic examination of water law—Heather paddled two-thirds of the river completely alone, so there is also a compelling adventure narrative that runs throughout the book. • To understand most of the challenges facing the West, you need to understand water, and this episode is a perfect place to start. Heather and I start our conversation by laying out some of the basics around water—terminology that you may have heard thrown around but never truly understood. She explains how water in the West is a property right separate from land, and she explains some of the common language used when discussing water. We chat about why the Colorado River is over-allocated, and how transbasin diversions have transformed much of the West into a very large and complex plumbing system. For the second half of the conversation, we discuss Heather's professional path as a writer, journalist, and former river guide. We talk about why she moved west, her first gig as a professional writer, and some of the tricks of the trade she uses to force herself to write. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and favorite locations in the West. • As a guy who spends much of my day working with water and water rights, I can't thank Heather enough for writing this book. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! ••• https://www.heatherhansman.com More episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/heather-hansman/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:15 - Events leading to writing the book 7:30 - Overview of the river trip 11:00 - Women pursuing adventure for adventure's sake 15:00 - Water as a private property right 16:30 - What does “over-allocation” mean? 19:20 - How do we overcome water shortages? 20:30 - Transbasin diversions and the West’s plumbing system 23:00 - Ins-and-outs of dams 26:00 - Importance of being open-minded to all sides of issues in the West 29:40 - “Water flows uphill towards money” 32:00 - True value of water 33:45 - Potential water crisis 35:00 - Reasons for optimism 39:10 - Early years of river guiding 42:30 - Pursuing a career in journalism 44:30 - Benefits of journalism grad school 45:45 - Process of writing and writing the book 48:00 - Mentors 50:50 - Becoming a full-time writer 52:15 - Favorite books 56:30 - Favorite films 57:30 - Scariest event on the Green River trip 1:02:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:05:00 - Request of the podcast listeners 1:06:30 - Connect with Heather online

If you're a regular Mountain & Prairie listener, then you are undoubtedly familiar with best-selling author David Gessner. He has written several of my all-favorite books, most notably "All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West." He was also a past guest on this podcast almost exactly a year ago—a conversation that continues to receive excellent feedback and ranks as one of my most downloaded episodes. Between his writing, teaching, chairing the Creative Writing department at University of North Carolina Wilmington, and his role as a committed family man, David is a busy guy—so I greatly appreciate his sitting down to record a second episode. • We caught up during his annual trip to Colorado and covered a wide range of fascinating topics, all presented with his signature style of deeply considered insightfulness balanced with a hilarious sense of humor. We chatted about his ongoing work on his new book about public lands and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as a recent research trip in which he flew in a Cessna from Colorado to northwest Montana and many places in between. We discussed his thoughts on Theodore Roosevelt, and how his opinions of the man have evolved throughout this book project. David shares more insights into his writing process and how endurance and team sports have helped build his discipline and work ethic as an author. We spend a good amount of time discussing his book "Ultimate Glory," digging into the mindset that allowed David to pursue the sport of Ultimate Frisbee—and writing—with laser-focused obsession. We finish up by chatting about some of the best books he's read in the past year, as well as one relatively unknown author that everyone who loves the West should read. • This episode will obviously be of great interest to people who love the West, but I highly recommend it to anyone who is focused on a creative pursuit—writing, painting, poetry, sculpture, you name it. Thanks to his decades of daily grinding and obsession, David is a shining example of the discipline and commitment required to be a professional artist, and he's damn good at explaining it in a way that really sinks in. • If you haven't already, check out my first conversation with David as well—there's a link in the episode notes. But right now, enjoy this enlightening and hilarious conversation with David Gessner. ••• Episode Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner-2/ David Gessner, Part 1: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 - The importance of Boulder, Colorado in David’s life and work 9:00 - Endurance feats as a metaphor for writing 11:00 - Importance of having massive goals 12:45 - Importance of ambition 15:00 - Current book project and trip to the West 18:45 - Recent flight around the West 20:00 - Examining TR in a modern context 22:20 - Reluctance to become an activist 25:50 - Changing perspectives on TR 30:00 - Political cartooning 32:00 - David on taking feedback from editors and others 35:15 - Importance of constraints in writing and life 39:50 - Arête 42:15 - Finding camaraderie outside of team sports 46:50 - Teaching the writing mindset 50:50 - Best books David read this past year 53:45 - Lesser known authors worth reading

Mike Phillips is the Director of the Turner Endangered Species Fund (“TESF”), an organization that he co-founded in 1997 with Ted Turner. Mike is also a Montana state senator representing District 31, which encompasses parts of his hometown of Bozeman and the surrounding area. In his work as an ecologist, Mike has spent much of his career studying and implementing the reintroduction of wolves throughout the United States. And in both science and politics, he’s never shied away from taking vocal leadership roles involving a wide range of important issues in southwest Montana and beyond. • Mike is very well known for his work with gray wolves in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, and also for his efforts to reintroduce the species into western Colorado. But as you’ll hear in our conversation, wolves are just a small part of his work-- his overarching interest is the persistence of many imperiled species, with a particular emphasis on private land’s role in the recovery efforts. Whether considering the fate of monarch butterflies, cutthroat trout, or gray wolves, Mike’s approach is the same-- an action-oriented, science-backed strategy toward conserving biological diversity. • No matter where you stand on the issue of gray wolf reintroduction, I encourage you to give this conversation with Mike a very close listen. If you’re like me, you’ll be struck not only by his passion for ecology but by his deep reliance on non-emotional, quantitative scientific data. You’ll also notice his insatiable curiosity and his willingness to change his when presented with compelling new information. And finally, I think you’ll be impressed by his ability to discuss controversial topics such as wolves or politics in a respectful, considered tone that welcomes conversation and input from all sides of the issues. • I can’t thank Mike enough for taking the time out of his busy schedule to chat. This is an important conversation that will make you think, and Mike’s enthusiasm will likely motivate you to dedicate more of your time to a cause that is important to you. ••• https://mountainandprairie.com/mike-phillips/ http://tesf.org ••• 3:30 - Beginnings of the Turner Endangered Species Fund 9:30 - Mike’s background in ecology 14:00 - TESF success stories 17:30 - Wolf recovery in Colorado 24:30 - Mike addresses the counterarguments to wolf recovery 35:00 - Mike’s ability to not shy away from conflict—in ecology and politics 39:30 - Decision to enter into politics 43:30 - Importance of being mission and service oriented 44:30 - Lessons learned from baseball 47:30 - Importance of being able to “see around the next corner” 48:30 - Private land’s role in conservation 53:30 - Favorite books 56:00 - Favorite films 58:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:00:00 - Request of the listeners

James Decker is a farmer, attorney, and the Mayor of Stamford, TX, a tight-knit agricultural community located about 45 minutes north of Abilene. James grew up in Stamford, left for college and law school, but immediately returned home to begin his career-- his love of his hometown and desire to contribute to its success far outweighed any material success that could result from practicing law in a big city. With his service-oriented mindset and natural leadership abilities, James worked his way up from city council to Mayor, all while working as an attorney and growing his family. • Like so many devoted small-town mayors, James is driven by a deep desire to see his community thrive, despite the many forces that seem to be conspiring against small-town America. He approaches local politics with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and he’s not afraid to seek out new ideas from a variety of sometimes-unexpected sources. His weekly essays are worth a read whether you live in Stamford or not-- he explores subjects ranging from the nuts and bolts of economic development to the writings of Wendell Berry to quotations from Theodore Roosevelt. • James is a shining example of the positive impact that one passionate person can have when he or she decides to lead with enthusiasm, optimism, and old-fashioned hard work. We covered a lot in our conversation, starting with his upbringing in Stamford and some of the history of the town. We talk about how he chose to return to Stamford after law school, despite having plenty of other opportunities elsewhere. We discuss the challenges facing rural America and how he chooses to approach economic development with an aggressive, proactive posture. We also talk about his mentors and heroes, and how his love of history and biographies inform his leadership. We obviously talk a lot about Wendell Berry and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as his favorite books and our shared love of the greatest movie of all time, Road House. • The West is full of many small agricultural towns, and many of those communities share the same opportunities and challenges facing Stamford. I think you’ll be inspired by this episode, and be sure to check the notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy! ••• https://mountainandprairie.com/james-decker/ https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman/ ••• 4:15 - How James describes his work 5:00 - Stamford, Texas described 7:00 - Family history 8:30 - Growing up in Stamford 9:30 - Choice to return to Stamford 15:30 - Local heroes and mentors 18:00 - What creates community pride? 22:30 - James’s weekly essays 26:00 - Decision to run for mayor 28:00 - Biggest surprise of being mayor 31:30 - Biggest challenge facing Stamford 35:30 - Economic opportunities in small towns 39:45 - Sources of inspirations, Wendell Berry and TR 45:15 - Seeking out different opinions 47:00 - National and local politics 51:45 - How kids have changed James’s perspective 57:00 - Importance of aggression 1:00:00 - Best Texas history books 1:02:30 - Favorite books 1:08:50 - Favorite films 11:11:30 - Hobbies away from work 1:13:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:15:30 - Best advice ever received 1:16:30 - Request of the listeners 1:18:00 - Connect with James

If you love the West and you love art, then you are likely already a fan of Logan Maxwell Hagege. He is a renowned painter whose depictions of the people and landscapes of the West have won him acclaim around the globe. His work is as stunning as it is unique, and when you see one of Logan’s pieces, there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind as to exactly who painted it. He uses bold colors and striking composition to create a style that is entirely his own-- a style that continues to evolve, even after all of his success. • Logan was born and raised in California, and he has been an obsessive artist for as long as he can remember. Whether drawing, playing music, surfing, or painting, Logan has always gone “all in” on his creative pursuits. And as you’ll hear, Logan’s tendency towards obsession is fueled by a tireless work ethic and deep commitment to continuing to grow as an artist-- he is always pushing himself and refuses to rest on his laurels. That’s not to say that Logan doesn’t suffer from artistic blocks from time to time. But when he does, rather than wallow, he’s developed hard-nosed, time-tested methods of summoning creativity and continuing to push forward. • I’ve been a fan of Logan’s for many years, so I was thrilled to get the opportunity to chat with him. We covered a lot, including his childhood creative obsessions and how his parents nurtured his artistic streak. We talk about his formal art education, and how he made the jump from art student to professional artist. Logan describes the evolution of his work, and how his early paintings are almost unrecognizable when compared to his current style. We chat about how he maintains focus after so many years of professional art, and he describes specific ways that he pushes himself to continue to evolve as an artist. He explains how he knows when a painting is finished, and how having a son has changed his routine and outlook. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he’s ever received. • There’s a ton of useful information in this episode so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything. Enjoy! ••• http://loganhagege.com https://mountainandprairie.com/logan-hagege/ ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 - How Logan describes his work 6:30 - Logan’s childhood artistic endeavors 8:15 - Art education 10:00 - Transition from art school to professional artist 12:15 - Old work compared to new work 15:00 - Transition to a new style of painting 16:45 - Source of Logan’s independence 19:15 - Importance of work ethic 20:30 - How he keeps the artistic motivation alive 21:20 - When the southwest became a focus 23:15 - Logan’s daily creative schedule 25:00 - How parenthood affected Logan’s outlook 26:30 - Logan’s studio spaces 28:00 - The inspiration for Logan’s works 29:45 - How to know when a painting is done 32:00 - Thoughts on looking at others’ artwork 35:00 - What Logan listens to while painting 36:30 - The business of art 38:35 - Mentors and heroes 41:00 - Books on creativity 42:30 - Other non-art activities 46:30 - Favorite books 48:30 - Daily rituals and getting to work 51:00 - More favorite books 52:00 - Favorite films 54:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 58:45 - Best advice ever received 1:03:30 - Request of the listeners

Mary Rondepierre is a fourth-generation Montanan, avid sportswoman, and a public lands advocate who has explored our nation’s wild places from coast to coast. She is also the Marketing and Experiences Manager at Filson, one of the most renowned and respected outdoor apparel brands anywhere. Currently based in Seattle, Mary has managed to combine her personal and professional passions into an exciting and rewarding career that melds together high-performance business with conservation and time in wide-open spaces. • As a child, Mary grew up in a household that respected the outdoors and valued rich experiences over accumulating endless amounts of “stuff.” Her father worked as a commercial fisherman and logger, wearing-- you guessed it-- Filson gear to his jobs in the often-brutal environments of Alaska and the West. Mary headed to Oregon State for college, and soon after graduation entered the apparel business, eventually landing at Filson. Since then, she’s worn many hats at the company and now works closely with Filson’s partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, helping to produce their “Campfire Stories” events around the country. • If you’re like me, love the outdoors, and own a ridiculously large stash of gear, odds are you’ve dreamed about working at a well-known outdoor apparel company. Mary’s career serves as an excellent case study for anyone interested in pursuing this path, and she reveals how she managed to land such a dream job. We talk about her education and early career, as well as her decision to work retail at Filson to “get her foot in the door.” We discuss the critical lessons she learned from working on the sales floor, and how those retail experiences inform and enhance her current role at Filson. We chat about an epic road trip she took with her husband in which they visited public lands from coast to coast, and we talk about how her upbringing in rural Montana instilled a deep love and respect of public lands. As usual, we discuss favorite books, places in the West, and the best advice she’s ever received. Enjoy! ••• https://mountainandprairie.com/mary-rondepierre/ https://mountainandprairie.com/support/ https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman/ ••• TOPICS COVERED: 4:30 - How Mary describes her work 6:30 - History of Filson 9:40 - Holding high standards 11:45 - Outdoor apparel marketing 13:30 - Partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers 18:10 - How Mary began working in outdoor apparel 19:00 - Mary’s dad’s secret camps! 20:00 - Family history in Montana 22:55 - Childhood outdoor adventures 24:00 - Decision to leave Montana 26:30 - First job out of college 28:30 - First job at Filson 30:10 - Experience working retail 33:30 - Filson’s “Unfailing Goods” 35:30 - Humility gained from retail 38:00 - Advice to recent college grads 41:00 - Thoughts on reading business books versus real-world experience 44:10 - Epic public lands roadtrip 49:30 - Proposal story! 42:00 - Lessons learned from the road trip 55:00 - Favorite spots in the PNW 59:30 - Awesome TR side conversation 1:01:45 - Mentors 1:04:30 - Favorite books 1:09:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:12:45 - Favorite location in the West 1:13:30 - Best advice ever received 1:14:30 - Request of the listeners 1:16:00 - Connect with Mary

Bryce Andrews is a Montana-based rancher, conservationist, and author whose unique set of experiences gives him uncommon insights into the relationship between humans and carnivores in the West. Having worked as a ranch hand, ranch manager, and ranch owner, Bryce understands agriculture and the myriad of challenges faced by producers. As Field Director at the non-profit People and Carnivores, he has gained first-hand knowledge of the predicaments facing large predators in the Rockies. And as an author, he has researched and written extensively about all sides of the issue-- most notably in his books “Badluck Way” and his new book “Down from the Mountain,” which was published earlier this week. • Bryce grew up in Seattle, far removed from ranching, farming, and the arid ruggedness of the Rocky Mountain West. But soon after college, he landed an entry-level job at the 20,000-acre Sun Ranch, located in Montana’s spectacular Upper Madison River Valley. On the Sun Ranch, Bryce received a trial-by-fire education in the sometimes-problematic relationship between agriculture and wild animals, a relationship he has spent much of his professional career exploring. The latest manifestation of this exploration is “Down from the Mountain,” an educational, entertaining, and sometimes-heartbreaking book that explores specific interactions between grizzly bears and farms in Montana’s Mission Valley. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of this book and cannot recommend it enough. • If you are familiar with this podcast and the topics that I love to discuss, then you know that Bryce is a perfect guest. He’s smart, funny, insightful, and has a real gift for explaining complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging way. We talked a lot about “Down from the Mountain,” discussing grizzlies, farming, and the unique location and topography of the Mission Valley. We talk about Bryce’s upbringing in Seattle, and what drove him to explore the West after college. We discuss his work with People and Carnivores, and how his background in agriculture helps him to span the divide between his organization and the farming and ranching communities. Bryce also explains his writing and research process and offers some excellent advice for aspiring authors. And as usual, we spend a lot of time discussing books, authors, and his most powerful outdoor experience. • I encourage you to find a copy of “Down from the Mountain” and give it a read. You will not be disappointed. ••• Episode Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/bryce-andrews/ ••• 4:00 - Bryce describes his work 5:20 - How Bryce started ranching 6:30 - First experiences ranching 7:20 - Heading to the Rockies after college 9:00 - Getting a hand-hold in ranching 10:30 - Culture shock of the West 13:50 - First encounter with carnivores 16:30 - Primal thrill of wildlife encounters 17:30 - Work with People and Carnivores 20:00 - Finding common ground in the carnivore controversies 25:00 - “Down from the Mountain” 29:00 - Mission Valley explained 34:00 - Similarities between humans and grizzlies 37:30 - Unexpected tension of bears in a cornfield 41:20 - Bryce’s history as a writer 42:50 - Favorite/important writers 46:30 - Bryce’s relationship with writing 50:00 - Writing, the flow state, and fear 52:00 - Intense life events versus the boring “real world” 56:15 - Advice for aspiring writers 59:45 - Favorite books about the West 1:01:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:03:30 - Request of the listeners 1:05:30 - Connect with Bryce