Hole in My Heart Podcast show

Hole in My Heart Podcast

Summary: The purpose of the Hole in My Heart Podcast is to explore how the gospel is good news for everyone every day. Most often, teacher and author, Laurie Krieg, licensed therapist and "argyle expert," Matt Krieg, and producer and "the most professional radio voice among us," Steve, all engage where the gospel intersects sexuality and gender. Mostly? The trio and their guests seek to place the sexuality/gender conversation in the midst of other real-life stories of the practical, gritty good news of the gospel. ​ To learn more about Laurie and Matt Krieg visit www.lauriekrieg.com.

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Podcasts:

 Episode 174: Tov vs. Toxicity in the Church with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:47:00

When we look at churches and ministries today, we often don’t see Jesus. Instead, we see scandal. Abuse. Toxicity. What do we do with this? How do we change and prevent it? Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer have an answer: tov. Tov is the Hebrew word for “good,” and it’s who God is and who He calls us to be. As Scot says it, tov is “the redemptive dimension of churches that can prevent them from toxicity.” We need more of this. Let’s listen in. I Highlights I “This [book] was really a work of faith for me, realizing that God is in the wounded. That He’s with the wounded, He’s with the resisters. And I’ve found that, sadly, churches silencing victims was so discouraging and so disorienting. But what I found through the journey was that, that is not God, that God is truth and that God, like I said, is with the wounded.” -Laura Barringer “The gospel is about the goodness of God—God is tov—because He is Himself tov, and therefore, we get incorporated into that kind of gospel and it just fills us with tov and goodness! And we want to be that kind of person in the world, because that’s the way Jesus was.” -Scot McKnight “Who are we talking about when we leave the church? Are we talking about God? Are we talking about Jesus? Are we talking about the Spirit? Are we talking about the fellowship of the saints and the worship? Or are we talking about how great the pastor was [and] how great the church was?…When that’s the commentary in the car on the way home, we’re on the verge of trouble.” -Scot McKnight I Do the Next Thing I Check out Scot and Laura’s book, A Church Called Tov, here. https://www.amazon.com/Church-Called-Tov-Goodness-Promotes/dp/1496446003 Here’s Scot’s blog! https://www.christianitytoday.com/scot-mcknight/ Looking for someone to be in the trenches with you? Laurie’s super down! Check it out here. https://lauriekrieg.com/product/one-coaching-session-with-laurie/ Also, guys! We are looking for partners in our ministry! If you’re interested, join us over here: https://lauriekrieg.com/partner/ For updates on our ministry, check out Laurie’s Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/laurie_krieg/?hl=en

 Episode 173: Marriage and Mental Health with Aaron & Jamie Ivey | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:45:48

Oh, you guys. This conversation… It’s not often Matt and I (Laurie) are surprised by our guests, but we were surprised in the best way today. Podcaster, author, and boss-mom, Jamie Ivey, and pastor, author, and tender-hearted dad, Aaron Ivey, got real—like really real. Matt and I were going along, simply enjoying the conversation with these incredibly humble and kind people, and then Therapist Matt asks a question about how childhood wounding relates to marriage pain. (Way to go, counselor!) We suddenly took a left turn, and found ourselves talking about Aaron’s recent clinical depression diagnosis.  What contributed to it?  How did Jamie respond?  What if we have been feeling similarly this last year, but are sick of people saying, “Oh yes, everyone is depressed. It’s 2020/21.” Ooo, friends. This is a rich one.  I Highlights I “Oneness takes work.” -Laurie Krieg “[Our] friendship turned into deep abiding love, and that’s what’s kept us through the whole [marriage].” -Aaron Ivey “My advice would be….to pray. [It] would really, really be to pray. And no pray, ‘Oh that they come around,’ or whatever, but pray that they fall in love with Jesus. Because I honestly think that [in] falling in love with Jesus, a lot of the pieces that we’re wanting to get fixed, they fall into place that way.” -Jamie Ivey “Single people need to hear and understand: You have value and purpose and there’s something that God has for you to do right now in your singleness. Because if you can wrap your mind around that, then you can then marriage won’t be this thing that you feel like you can finally get to and THEN do something awesome with your life.” -Aaron Ivey “There is no shame with mental health. None.” -Aaron Ivey I Do the Next Thing I Check out the Ivey’s book! https://www.amazon.com/Complement-Surprising-Choosing-Together-Separate/dp/1535996692/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=complement&qid=1621016120&sr=8-1 Jamie mentioned interviewing Aaron on her podcast. Find that episode here! https://jamieivey.com/hh369/ Also—here’s that one time Jamie interviewed us! https://jamieivey.com/hh363/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/549424824 And while you’re checking out books, here’s ours! https://www.amazon.com/Impossible-Marriage-Mixed-Orientation-Taught-Gospel/dp/0830847936/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=impossible+marriage&qid=1621016099&sr=8-1 Check out our free resources here. lauriekrieg.com/resources Learn more about what we offer—including coaching with Laurie—here. lauriekrieg.com/shop Stay up-to-date with the ministry by following Laurie on IG here. https://www.instagram.com/laurie_krieg/

 Episode 172: Friends--Finding, Keeping, and Loving Them with Julie Fisk & Kendra Roehl | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:49:15

This is another conversation we cannot engage too frequently: Friendship. How in the world can we do it well? Real-life friends, authors, and founders of The Ruth Experience, Julie Fisk and Kendra Roehl, wisely and winsomely engaged Laurie’s latest habit of tossing quite challenging questions at guests. Together, the group explored:  How do we confront our friends? What about friend-shame? (If I feel that I have too few friends or not enough time for the ones I have?) Should we wait for friends to come to us or do we go to them? How do you know if you are asking too much of your friendships? Do guys do friendship differently? What if we are attracted to our friends? I Highlights I “If the girls of Jesus linked arms and did healthy community with one another, I think we would be an unstoppable force.” -Julie Fisk “We can trust the Holy Spirit more than we think we can when it comes to relationships.” -Kendra Roehl “God asks us to move, and He will meet us when we move, but He often pushes us out of our comfort zones. And as the girls who believe in Jesus, we are to be the inviters…I understand the desire…to be invited, but I have found more often than not, I have to be the inviter….Jesus frequently makes me take the step.” -Julie Fisk I Do the Next Thing I Want to hear more from Julie, Kendra, and the Ruth Experience? Head over to their website here. http://www.theruthexperience.com Guys! The Journey Well Study is ON SALE this week! Check it out here. https://lauriekrieg.com/product/journey-well-study-explore-your-deepest-needs-and-how-to-meet-them/ Want to join a monthly, live Q and A conversation with Matt and Laurie and others who listen? Support the ministry and $15 or more a month and you’ll get exclusive access to this as well as other ministry exclusives and updates! https://lauriekrieg.com/partner/ Watch this Conversation! https://vimeo.com/546704517

 Episode 171: All the "Easy" Convos with Phylicia Masonheimer | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:44:06

Why engage only one challenging topic concerning women when you can engage more? Such as… What is biblical feminism (and should we call ourselves biblical feminists if we are pro-woman)? What does it mean to be feminine? Is there a right and wrong when it comes to marriage: complementarian or egalitarian?  Bible teacher and author, Phylicia Masonheimer, handles all of these questions and more with aplomb. (Yes, aplomb.) Pull up an earbud, friends, and join this really enjoyable conversation. I Highlights I “What I found in Scripture was that the heart of the person and their desire to walk with the Lord and evidence the fruit of the Spirit is God’s top priority. And some of those extra personality traits? They’re just the freedom that He gives us to express that personality, as long as we’re surrendering it to the Lord.” -Phylicia Masonheimer I Do the Next Thing I Check out more of Phylicia’s work at her website! https://phyliciamasonheimer.com Here's an article on soft complementarianism that we mention in the episode! https://www.patheos.com/blogs/adrianwarnock/2012/09/gender-roles-a-complementarian-and-egalitarian-spectrum/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/544085536 ALSO—here’s our new favorite Bible. Check it out! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com

 Episode 170: How to Biblically Engage the Trans* Conversation with Dr. Preston Sprinkle | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:48:29

We are not sure there is a bigger, more delicate, more divisive, or more misunderstood conversation in Christendom right now than how to approach the trans* conversation. So, we’re bringing in the best expert on the conversation right now: our dear friend of the podcast (and in real life!), Dr. Preston Sprinkle. Together, we explore: If we hold to a historically Christian view of marriage (believing it is between one man and one woman) how does that affect our beliefs on gender? Does it? Should Christians transition? Is this whole thing just a big trend? How can we love beloved, trans* image bearers like Jesus? No longer can we offer pat answers or avoid the whole thing, dear family. Let’s dive in together. I Highlights I “Think deeply and love widely.” -Preston Sprinkle “We need to look through these identities to the person. And really have the kindness and patience of Christ to get to know this human being in front of you.” -Preston Sprinkle I Do the Next Thing I Explore more of Preston’s work, especially his book, Embodied, here! https://www.prestonsprinkle.com Check out our new favorite Bible! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com

 Episode 169: The Gifts of Rejection with Kait Warman | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:44:43

When you think of the word “rejection,” what comes to mind? When you were a kid and were the last one chosen for kickball?  Junior high lunch room not knowing where to sit?  Maybe you think of last week when that person didn’t text you back?  No matter what comes to mind, most of us wouldn’t put rejection in the “gift” file of our minds.  However, author and dating coach, Kait Warman, has a different view: After processing the deep pain of rejection with Jesus, she has learned to be grateful for it.  How, Kait? Seriously, how do you do that?! Let’s go, friends.  I Highlights I “In the wake of a rejection, we wanna see six months ahead. We wanna know next week, next month, and we wanna see the future….So my prayer usually to God in the wake of a rejection is, ‘God, would you give me the grace just to handle today?’” -Kait Warman I Do the Next Thing I Head over to Kait’s website for more resources! https://kaitness.com/about-kaitness/ Watch this conversation! (COMING SOON) Check out our new favorite Bible! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com

 Episode 168: The Basics of Engaging Racial Divides with Daniel Hill | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:46:21

We’re asking the question again: How do we engage racial divides well? The topic of race has faded from the trends the last few months—but for Christ-followers, the work is just beginning. We have a lot of ground to cover and many questions along the way. Never fear, though; our Savior is walking with us! Pastor Daniel Hill is here to walk with us as well, taking us with him on his own journey. Friends? Will you join us as we explore this topic even more deeply than before? I Highlights I “For me, the most important aspect of repentance is this acknowledgment that Jesus Christ has a perspective on the problem of race that I don’t currently share. He sees it in a way that I don’t currently see it. So to repent is to say that I don’t have the mind of Christ in this arena and I want to have the mind of Christ.” -Daniel Hill “Racism is built on this lie about human value. It says that some people are superior—white—and some people are inferior—black—and then it measures—Asian, Middle Eastern, Latino—it measures based on the proximity to those two poles….We just have to see that those lies have very real impact. They don’t just mess up souls. They mess up neighborhoods, they mess up communities. They mess up all kinds of other things.” -Daniel Hill “It’s not a political issue at all; it’s an Imago Dei issue.” -Daniel Hill I Do the Next Thing I Check out David’s writing at his website! https://www.rivercitychicago.com/daniel-hill Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/535045004 Here’s our new favorite Bible—check it out! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com

 Episode 167: The Social Garden with Dr. Greg Coles | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:49:50

Goodness, we loved this conversation. Two-time author and one of our favorite friends of the podcast, Greg Coles, is back to mentor us. On what? Well, our friendships. Questions we explore include: How did you know you were called to singleness + celibacy (and not marriage)? What does belonging mean if we are feeling lonely? Can we have a social life with Jesus? What does it mean to say (and believe) "God is enough"? How can married + single people build each other up? How should the Church interact with our social lives? We'd love for you to join us. I Highlights I “It’s actually in the reckless pursuit of Jesus that you find yourself being given a much better belonging than you thought you could possibly earn.” -Greg Coles “There’s...this broader claim that...with human beings, they’re actually intended to share life with one another to see the face of God reflected in the image of God around them in these Image-Bearers.” -Greg Coles “Jesus is not a God who interacts with us at a distance.” -Greg Coles “It actually matters so little what I can do, or what I can recognize, or what I can wrap my head around, or what I can cling to—because all the most important clinging is the clinging that Jesus is doing...to me.” -Greg Coles I Do the Next Thing I Check out Greg’s new book, along with his other content, on his website! https://www.gregorycoles.com Want to hear more of Greg on the podcast? Check it out here! https://lauriekrieg.com/category/lgbt/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/532687421 And check out our new favorite Bible! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com

 Episode 166: The Emotional Garden with Dr. Peace Amadi | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:42:35

In 2019, between 6-11% of US adults had symptoms of an anxiety or depressive disorder (CDC). By the end of 2020? Between 39 and 42% of US adults experienced anxiety or depression (Journal of Public Health). We need help, and psychology professor and author Dr. Peace Amadi  is here to offer it.  When should we call a therapist? Why should we? How can we walk with each other through this (if the therapist’s waiting list is 6-months long)?  Let’s go, friends. No shame, no judgment, let’s just care for each other like Jesus cares for us. I Highlights I “The absolute first step is just to pause and listen and name the pain….Whatever it is, it’s so important to name it. That can’t be overstated. Because when you name the pain, you basically tell yourself that it’s real and it deserves attention and that there’s something that your body, your mind, your psyche is trying to tell you.” -Dr. Peace Amadi I Do the Next Thing I Check out Peace’s work and latest book! http://peaceamadi.com If you’re looking for a “friend in the trenches,” check out our coaching resources! lauriekrieg.com/shop Also, check out our new favorite Bible! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com Watch this conversation! (COMING SOON) And for more on the stats posted above, visit the following sites: https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/advance-article/doi/10.1093/pubmed/fdaa250/6078709 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/mental-health.htm

 Episode 165: The Family Garden with Crystal Paine | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:39:15

If you are a parent or discipler of students, have you ever gone to bed kicking yourself for all of the ways you missed your child or student's heart?  "Why didn't I say this? Why did I say that? How can I do better next time?" If so, we can relate, and so can bestselling author Crystal Paine. Crystal never thought she would write a parenting book, and when her child was getting kicked out of school for poor choices, she especially couldn't picture it.  But sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom of something to really experience God's grace in it. That is what happened to Crystal, and now she approaches parenting and discipling young people totally differently: She sees she can't fail. What? How is that possible? Please, teach us how? Crystal will in today's conversation as we continue our gardens' series. Join us? I Highlights I “I was constantly just correcting, but I was spending so little time connecting.” -Crystal Paine “There’s just this beautiful rest and freedom as a mom, because it’s not about my kids’ choices—it’s about being able to walk with them.” -Crystal Paine I Do the Next Thing I To learn more about Crystal, head over to her website, MoneySavingMom.com! Also, check out Crystal’s book, Love-Centered Parenting: The No-Fail Guide to Launching Your Kids, here! https://www.amazon.com/Love-Centered-Parenting-No-Fail-Guide-Launching/dp/0764237225 BONUS: Check out one of our new favorite Bibles at: https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com Will you consider partnering us? Learn more here! https://lauriekrieg.com/partner/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/526352867

 Episode 164: The Spiritual Garden with Carolyn Schroeder | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:46:23

Anyone else out there struggle to experience Jesus sometimes? We feel you. Personal, intimate experiences with Christ are hard to find in our chaotic world. Today, Carolyn Schroeder (Laurie’s real life mentor!!!) is here to invite us into Jesus’ presence and teach us how to have those experiences wherever we are! Join us as we dive into deeper relationship with our Savior and Healer today. I Highlights I “God had to get me to the place of being powerless and desperate for Him so that I could be a receiver.” -Carolyn Schroeder “My sins cannot condemn me, because there’s a solution to sin. And everyday, I take that solution.” -Carolyn Schroeder “Only a life lived in anticipation of [God’s] goodness can live in the chaos we live in.” -Carolyn Schroeder I Do the Next Thing I Would you consider partnering with us in our mission? Click here to learn more! https://lauriekrieg.com/partner/ Check out Carolyn’s recommendations for time with Jesus: - Lectio 365: https://www.24-7prayer.com/dailydevotional - 1010 Thrive Podcast: https://www.audible.com/pd/1010-Thrive-Podcast/B08JJM4X8Z And here’s Carolyn’s prayer featured at the end of the episode! (COMING SOON) Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/522938791

 Episode 163: The Stewardship Garden with Dr. Andrew Davis | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:41:30

Okay, friends, let’s play “would you rather”... Would you rather have an all-expenses paid, two week vacation in a tropical oasis—but there is one catch: You have to be discontent every second of the trip. Or, would you rather be locked up in jail, and you are cold, hungry, have few clothes, but you know God called you there, and so all you want to do is joyfully, contentedly worship God—so you do. Likely, most of us would pick the second option. But what does that choice tell us? We think it says contentment is critical and our circumstances don’t matter as much as we might think they do. But how in the world can we become content? How does contentment relate to our time, money, and talents that we are called to steward? Do we need to still give if we are achingly tired and legit feel like we have nothing inside to offer another? Let’s get after it, friends. Let’s dive into the stewardship garden with pastor and author (and all-around awesome dude) Dr. Andrew Davis. I Highlights I “Christian contentment is that sense in the heart--based on the fatherly love of God—of trusting in Him, the decisions He makes for our lives. So a lot of it has to do with submission, a faith-filled submission to our Heavenly Father and what He chooses to do with our lives, and that sense that we have of peace and joy as we trust our Heavenly Father.” -Dr. Andrew Davis “I think you can actually go through your whole Christian life and never learn [contentment]. I think you can be a complaining…murmuring, frustrated person and still be fruitful—but you won’t be as fruitful.” -Dr. Andrew Davis “You need to be evidently hope-filled.” -Dr. Andrew Davis “Jesus said no one lights a lamp and puts it under a bowl; he puts it up on a stand. Could it be the stand is suffering? He’s gonna put you on a stand and make you shine in a dark place…[C]ontentment enables you to be a steward of that situation.” -Dr. Andrew Davis I Do the Next Thing I Check out TwoJourneys.org to learn more about Andy! https://twojourneys.org/more/andy-davis/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/520125971

 Episode 162: The Intellectual Garden with Dr. Kathy Koch | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:43:16

How do we cultivate our minds? Today, we'll tackle this question with the always-joyful Dr. Kathy Koch, a child development expert, long-time minister, and (new!) partner with Impossible Ministries! We'll especially be taking a look at "the eight smarts," which are: Word-smart: They think in words. When they're excited, they usually talk or write. They often thrive in school. Logic-smart: They think with questions. They ask more questions when they're excited. Usually, they like math and science, and they love things to make sense. Picture-smart: They think with their eyes, in pictures. Pay attention to color, design, where things are placed on a page. Art and creativity, fiction, history, and Bible are strengths of theirs. Music-smart: They think with rhythm and melodies. When they're excited, they hum or tap or dance. They go after the musical disciplines. Body-smart: They think with movement and touch. Love to experience life through movement. They may be athletic or artistic, culinary or theatrical. They are hands on, no matter what. Nature-smart: They think with patterns. They would rather be outside than inside. Their strengths are often in biology, meteorology, or earth science. People-smart: They think with other people. They brainstorm, collaborate, coordinate. When they are excited, they talk to others and get feedback. Self-smart: They think on their own. They reflect inside of themselves. When they're excited, they engage in more self-reflection. They are quiet but have a lot to say. Often counselors, teachers, salespeople. All of us have them at different levels, and everyone has a few that they excel in. These are connected with Dr. Kathy's take on the core needs (she has five): Security: Who can I trust? Identity: Who am I? Belonging: Who wants me? Purpose: Why am I alive? Competence: What do I do well? Give it a listen to see how you fit into all of this! I Highlights I “For me, it was wisdom that started [my relationship with Jesus], love that completed it—other people might have that in the opposite direction.” -Dr. Kathy Koch “We can pursue righteousness, and we should—but we don’t have to be perfect. And we have a loving, full-of-grace-mercy-and-hope-and-truth God who receives us when we mess up and acknowledge it.” -Dr. Kathy Koch “One of the questions is “Am I smart?” And I like to tell children the answer is always yes because God doesn’t make stupid people!” -Dr. Kathy Koch “Jesus did not die that you would have an abundant school experience. No! It’s abundant life! And life is abundant when ALL of life is abundant!” -Dr. Kathy Koch I Do the Next Thing I Thank you so much to the CSB Bible for sponsoring the podcast!! (Our first sponsorship!!) Check them out: https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com Check out Kathy Koch’s website to see her book, Eight Great Smarts, and more! https://celebratekids.com/books/ Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/517334612 For more about the Garden’s Series, listen to Episodes 159 and 160! https://lauriekrieg.com/podcast/an-introduction-to-the-gardens-series-part-1-with-laurie-matt-and-steve/

 Episode 161: The Physical Garden with Sarah Young | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:42:20

Anyone else feeling a bit down about your physical self these days? Why don't we have Sarah Young offer her thoughts? Sarah is a marriage and sex therapist who has wrestled with her body image. Together, we cover: What should single people do with their sexuality? How do we stop hating ourselves into liking ourselves? What if we never talk about sex in our marriage? What is the ultimate form of intimacy--for real? How can the Church help? We'd love for you to join the conversation. I Highlights I "[H]ow do I care for my heart and validate the struggle in the midst of the noise? How do I take on my own battle, my own journey, my own questions, frustrations, hesitancies? I have to have a safe place to do that. And hopefully that's how we show up as the church for everyone: our friends who are single, our friends who are married--wherever our community finds themselves." -Sarah Young I Do the Next Thing I Read A Celebration of Sex by Dr. Doug Rosnau. https://www.amazon.com/Celebration-Sex-Enjoying-Sexual-Intimacy/dp/0785264671 Check out this article by Phylicia Masonheimer. https://phyliciamasonheimer.com/how-to-celebrate-your-sexuality-as-a-single-woman/ Join an event of ours--here's one in early March! https://www.ignitewomen.org Reach us with your questions at lk@lauriekrieg.com ! Thanks, as always, for rating and reviewing the podcast!

 Episode 160: An Introduction to the Gardens' Series, Part 2, with Matt, Laurie, and Steve | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 00:45:03

It's time to bring even more color and clarity to the Oneness Mountain in this second part of our introduction to the Gardens Series! Today, Matt and Laurie bring examples and Core Needs so we can better see that life is more than a timeline. It is more like a group of gardens to cultivate with each other and Gardener God. After you listen, will you let us know the answer to the question: "How is your church community doing at cultivating oneness (unity, intimacy) right now? What's one way they/you are doing it well?" Let us know so we can encourage each other with practical care! (Email: podcast@lauriekrieg.com) This week we cover: I CORE NEEDS I Affirmed: Overwhelmingly approved of Desired: Specially chosen—no pretense necessary Included: Wanted in this group, team, or partnership; I belong Loved: Unconditionally accepted Nurtured: Cared for; held Purposed: Filled with a sense of profoundly mattering Rested: Re-centered and reset in mind, body, spirit; includes having fun Delighted In: Seen as unique and special Protected: Unafraid; trusting everything is under control Noticed: Seen inside and out I GARDEN BARRIERS I Rocks: Sin done to us, or the effects of the Fall on us (unchosen) Weeds: Sin tendencies within us (These are still unchosen defaults (temptations), but we have a choice of whether we will engage the sinful tendencies.) Broken Fence: Covenant break of any variety (affairs, porn, "what if" questions such as "What if I left?" or "What if I married that person?") Mold: Aggravation of our circumstances (lies, bitterness, the enemy influence) To see the Seven Gardens, see Episode 159. https://lauriekrieg.com/podcast/an-introduction-to-the-gardens-series-part-1-with-laurie-matt-and-steve/ I Do the Next Thing I Watch this conversation! https://vimeo.com/511829878 Email us with your answer to the above question! (podcast@lauriekrieg.com)

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