Mormon Matters

The texts that Latter-day Saints and other Christians call the Old Testament (differing from scholars, who use Hebrew Bible or Tanakh) is both wonderfully rich and very problematic scripture. Its richness derives from its status as an account of how ancient persons saw the world, the nature of God, and the human condition. These venerable writings contain great wisdom and insight, as well as wonderful plays on words and intricate literary forms. They also contain differing viewpoints from different sources that redactors (editors) placed side by side, unafraid that readers would encounter diverse accounts of everything from the Creation to Hebrew law and God’s actions among human beings. Through the centuries, however, because we in the western world encounter them through translation rather than in their original languages, and because we are largely unfamiliar with the wider traditions of the ancient Near East upon which many of the accounts draw for elements of the stories they tell, we have allowed layers and layers of interpretation to build up, and these additions and attempts to systematize or harmonize with our preferred views have become the dominant forces driving how we read these texts. And most often, we just don’t realize that this is what we are doing. This has led, in some cases, to extremely problematic renderings that lead people to reject important truths discovered by science, to blame women for the negative conditions of this world, or to beliefs about black skin being a curse from God, etc. Or, even if not quite so harmful, it has led to quite tortured attempts to make the books seem inerrant and without disagreement with other parts of the texts, or leading some into numerology or other searches for hidden patterns within the writings that unlocks for them some types of secret knowledge. If these later overlays were removed as much as is humanly possible, what would we find that the texts reveal about themselves and the worldviews and intentions of the original writers? Would we still find these scriptures as meaningful as we do now due to the assumptions we bring and interpretations we add? Could our relationship to these scriptures change in a positive way if we were to let them speak for themselves and allow the genuine distance between us and these ancient writers to truly become clear to us, giving us breathing room to see that these writings are not "history" in the sense we use that term today, that these are not (nor were they intended to be) scientific texts describing cosmos, earth, nature, or human origins? In this four-part podcast, two wonderful guides to the Hebrew Bible, David Bokovoy and Tom Roberts, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for the first of an occasional series approaching these important texts, concentrating in the early episodes on Genesis and its key (and most problematic) stories. Episode 196 explores the second creation account, attributed to the J writer. How is God different in this story from the God of the first account? How does this writer see the origins of human beings and why God created them? Does this writer see the snake that tempts Eve as (or under the influence of) "Satan," as so many have interpreted it to be?

The texts that Latter-day Saints and other Christians call the Old Testament (differing from scholars, who use Hebrew Bible or Tanakh) is both wonderfully rich and very problematic scripture. Its richness derives from its status as an account of how ancient persons saw the world, the nature of God, and the human condition. These venerable writings contain great wisdom and insight, as well as wonderful plays on words and intricate literary forms. They also contain differing viewpoints from different sources that redactors (editors) placed side by side, unafraid that readers would encounter diverse accounts of everything from the Creation to Hebrew law and God’s actions among human beings. Through the centuries, however, because we in the western world encounter them through translation rather than in their original languages, and because we are largely unfamiliar with the wider traditions of the ancient Near East upon which many of the accounts draw for elements of the stories they tell, we have allowed layers and layers of interpretation to build up, and these additions and attempts to systematize or harmonize with our preferred views have become the dominant forces driving how we read these texts. And most often, we just don’t realize that this is what we are doing. This has led, in some cases, to extremely problematic renderings that lead people to reject important truths discovered by science, to blame women for the negative conditions of this world, or to beliefs about black skin being a curse from God, etc. Or, even if not quite so harmful, it has led to quite tortured attempts to make the books seem inerrant and without disagreement with other parts of the texts, or leading some into numerology or other searches for hidden patterns within the writings that unlocks for them some types of secret knowledge. If these later overlays were removed as much as is humanly possible, what would we find that the texts reveal about themselves and the worldviews and intentions of the original writers? Would we still find these scriptures as meaningful as we do now due to the assumptions we bring and interpretations we add? Could our relationship to these scriptures change in a positive way if we were to let them speak for themselves and allow the genuine distance between us and these ancient writers to truly become clear to us, giving us breathing room to see that these writings are not "history" in the sense we use that term today, that these are not (nor were they intended to be) scientific texts describing cosmos, earth, nature, or human origins? In this four-part podcast, two wonderful guides to the Hebrew Bible, David Bokovoy and Tom Roberts, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for the first of an occasional series approaching these important texts, concentrating in the early episodes on Genesis and its key (and most problematic) stories. Episode 195 delves into the first of two separate creation accounts in Genesis 1-3, attributed to the P writer. What is this author’s view of God, the cosmos, and the ordered world and how it came to be?

The texts that Latter-day Saints and other Christians call the Old Testament (differing from scholars, who use Hebrew Bible or Tanakh) is both wonderfully rich and very problematic scripture. Its richness derives from its status as an account of how ancient persons saw the world, the nature of God, and the human condition. These venerable writings contain great wisdom and insight, as well as wonderful plays on words and intricate literary forms. They also contain differing viewpoints from different sources that redactors (editors) placed side by side, unafraid that readers would encounter diverse accounts of everything from the Creation to Hebrew law and God’s actions among human beings. Through the centuries, however, because we in the western world encounter them through translation rather than in their original languages, and because we are largely unfamiliar with the wider traditions of the ancient Near East upon which many of the accounts draw for elements of the stories they tell, we have allowed layers and layers of interpretation to build up, and these additions and attempts to systematize or harmonize with our preferred views have become the dominant forces driving how we read these texts. And most often, we just don’t realize that this is what we are doing. This has led, in some cases, to extremely problematic renderings that lead people to reject important truths discovered by science, to blame women for the negative conditions of this world, or to beliefs about black skin being a curse from God, etc. Or, even if not quite so harmful, it has led to quite tortured attempts to make the books seem inerrant and without disagreement with other parts of the texts, or leading some into numerology or other searches for hidden patterns within the writings that unlocks for them some types of secret knowledge. If these later overlays were removed as much as is humanly possible, what would we find that the texts reveal about themselves and the worldviews and intentions of the original writers? Would we still find these scriptures as meaningful as we do now due to the assumptions we bring and interpretations we add? Could our relationship to these scriptures change in a positive way if we were to let them speak for themselves and allow the genuine distance between us and these ancient writers to truly become clear to us, giving us breathing room to see that these writings are not "history" in the sense we use that term today, that these are not (nor were they intended to be) scientific texts describing cosmos, earth, nature, or human origins? In this four-part podcast, two wonderful guides to the Hebrew Bible, David Bokovoy and Tom Roberts, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for the first of an occasional series approaching these important texts, concentrating in the early episodes on Genesis and its key (and most problematic) stories. Episode 194 concentrates on background into the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, the history of scriptural scholarship and approaches to the texts, including the theories emerging from "source criticism" that the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible) combine the writings of four different authors or groups--abbreviated as J, E, P, and D--that long after they were written were pulled together into one big text by redactors, as well as the climate within Mormonism and wider Christianity for information of the nature that is being shared in this series.

On 5 October, a group of women (and some male supporters) will, either through tickets granted by LDS leaders (they have petitioned leaders for them) or via the stand-by line, attempt to gain entrance to the priesthood session of general conference. Spearheaded by the group Ordain Women, the announcement of these plans has set LDS blogs afire, reinvigorating a several-decades-long and very important but complex discussion of pathways to full equality of men and women within Mormonism, including the possibility of women being ordained to the priesthood. In this episode of Mormon Matters, two members of Ordain Women--April Young Bennett and Danielle Mooney--join Dialogue editor Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of Ordain Women, its origins, activities, philosophies, and its plans for the priesthood meeting admission attempt. The conversation then opens into the wider questions about the objections that are being raised to this plan--its strategic gamble, whether the LDS membership is yet ready for a seismic shift such as would follow an announcement opening the door to women’s ordination, if this is an effective way for the best ideas about why ordination is essential for equality to be heard and prayerfully considered by the Church’s governing leadership. Wherever one stands on the issue of women's ordination, this is an extremely interesting and vital topic, for the future character of Mormonism is very much at stake.

Joseph Campbell spent a lifetime studying myths and stories from around the world, especially the ones that related to life’s biggest questions: Where did everything come from?; Is there purpose to the things that come up in our lives?; How do we as human beings fully flourish? For him, we as human beings aren’t seeking meaning so much as experience--the "experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive"--and he believes that life is structured to allow this unfolding of deep experience to take place. Through his immersion in great art and literature and the stories that seem to come up in every culture and every human life, he came to conclude that there is one story of all stories, a monomyth, that expresses this call to adventure, and which is woven into the structures of the universe (even as deep or deeper than DNA) such that it can and will play out in our lives. The trick will be to recognize it. This monomyth, he believes, is the "Hero’s Journey": "A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man." In this episode, Carol Lynn Pearson and David A. Stacey join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in unpacking Campbell’s model, but also applying it to LDS lives, including their own. They explore Mormon scriptures and stories, including the biggest one of all, the Plan of Salvation, in terms of the Hero’s Journey. Through it all, they encourage everyone to examine their own lives in terms of this structure. Where are we on our hero’s journey? Who is serving for us some of the roles that the pattern describes? What forces are keeping us from journeying to the inmost cave and meeting our deepest fears and having the fight there that will kill us and allow us to be reborn as masters who can then share with others the boons we have gained? In the end, the panelists conclude that it does not matter if one ends up deciding whether the universe or powerful beings within it truly structure reality in such a way that these adventures, visions, and empowerments are available to us all or if this is a structure we have learned to apply to our lives to help us feel oriented especially in extremely difficult times. For them, the Hero’s Journey "works"--and that is as "real" as anything needs to be.

Are we made for the Sabbath, or is the Sabbath made for us? Likewise, are we here primarily to serve the Church, or does the Church exist to serve and assist us as individuals? In both cases, most of us would think the second part of the sentences represent the deeper truth, yet so often it seems we act and think as if we as individuals are for the Sabbath and the Church rather than them being given and continuing to exist in order to help and bless us. In a classic article, "The Institutional Church and the Individual," organizational behavior professor and conflict negotiator J. Bonner Ritchie, lays out in a fresh and open way many of the tensions that exist--and will always exist--between organizations and individuals. To greater and lesser degrees, each have different goals and values, and they inevitably conflict with each other. When institutions act, at least some individuals experience hurt or pain. Yet institutions and individuals need each other, need the others’ stability or energy or creativity. The question is how can we mitigate the negative aspects in order to make this a creative tension rather than a painful, energy sucking one? Ritchie makes the claim that it is impossible to make institutions fully safe for individuals, so the task must become how to make individuals safe from organizational abuse or highly negative encroachments upon conscience or our daily lives? In this episode, J. Bonner Ritchie joins Katie Langston, Bill Hansen, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a stimulating discussion about these dynamics, illustrating them with stories and experiences and practical advice. The discussion covers both theory and practice, focusing in the second half on things like avoiding the negative consequences of worthiness interviews or the felt pressure accept every Church calling, etc.

Are we made for the Sabbath, or is the Sabbath made for us? Likewise, are we here primarily to serve the Church, or does the Church exist to serve and assist us as individuals? In both cases, most of us would think the second part of the sentences represent the deeper truth, yet so often it seems we act and think as if we as individuals are for the Sabbath and the Church rather than them being given and continuing to exist in order to help and bless us. In a classic article, "The Institutional Church and the Individual," organizational behavior professor and conflict negotiator J. Bonner Ritchie, lays out in a fresh and open way many of the tensions that exist--and will always exist--between organizations and individuals. To greater and lesser degrees, each have different goals and values, and they inevitably conflict with each other. When institutions act, at least some individuals experience hurt or pain. Yet institutions and individuals need each other, need the others’ stability or energy or creativity. The question is how can we mitigate the negative aspects in order to make this a creative tension rather than a painful, energy sucking one? Ritchie makes the claim that it is impossible to make institutions fully safe for individuals, so the task must become how to make individuals safe from organizational abuse or highly negative encroachments upon conscience or our daily lives? In this episode, J. Bonner Ritchie joins Katie Langston, Bill Hansen, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a stimulating discussion about these dynamics, illustrating them with stories and experiences and practical advice. The discussion covers both theory and practice, focusing in the second half on things like avoiding the negative consequences of worthiness interviews or the felt pressure accept every Church calling, etc.

In this third and final installment of our Hugh Nibley series, we look at Nibley’s powerful, far-ranging, and definitely direct/hard-hitting/deliciously skewering social critiques. Ranging from warnings and insights about the accumulation and concentration of wealth to the forces driving war, environmental destruction, and keeping us from truly enjoying the abundance the Lord desires for us, Nibley is at his best as keen observer, critic, and encourager toward a larger vision. His is a prophetic voice--a clear-sighted voice operating from outside the hierarchy and those charged with running things (and generally preferring the status quo) yet squarely within the Mormon tradition--that is able in a unique way to say hard things to and about his beloved community and not be thought of as enemy. His love and vision was for and of Zion, and Zion has never had a better prophet. Nor a funnier or delightfully snarky revealer of things that miss the Zion mark. In these episodes, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is again joined by Nibley biographer Boyd Petersen, and they welcome keen Nibley observers Charles Randall Paul and Russell Arben Fox. Join them for these conversations and have your conscience pricked as well as your funny bone tickled.

In this third and final installment of our Hugh Nibley series, we look at Nibley’s powerful, far-ranging, and definitely direct/hard-hitting/deliciously skewering social critiques. Ranging from warnings and insights about the accumulation and concentration of wealth to the forces driving war, environmental destruction, and keeping us from truly enjoying the abundance the Lord desires for us, Nibley is at his best as keen observer, critic, and encourager toward a larger vision. His is a prophetic voice--a clear-sighted voice operating from outside the hierarchy and those charged with running things (and generally preferring the status quo) yet squarely within the Mormon tradition--that is able in a unique way to say hard things to and about his beloved community and not be thought of as enemy. His love and vision was for and of Zion, and Zion has never had a better prophet. Nor a funnier or delightfully snarky revealer of things that miss the Zion mark. In these episodes, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is again joined by Nibley biographer Boyd Petersen, and they welcome keen Nibley observers Charles Randall Paul and Russell Arben Fox. Join them for these conversations and have your conscience pricked as well as your funny bone tickled.

These episodes (186 & 187) constitute the second of our three-part series on Hugh Nibley (1910-2005), focusing this time on Nibley as scholar of the ancient world and the ways he applied this scholarship to places of intersection with LDS scripture, history, and theology. In these episodes, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by Nibley biographer Boyd Petersen, along with Mormon scholars Brian Hauglid and Kevin Barney, for a discussion of Nibley’s areas of scholarly interest both outside of Mormonism and inside, the types of work he did, and the approaches he took--primarily seeking for and writing about parallels between Mormon textual clues and ideas with those found in antiquity--including an examination of criticisms of that approach. They also discuss an often-made critique that Nibley’s footnotes/citations contain many mistakes and/or push beyond what the texts actually say. Each also shares ways that Nibley’s scholarship and defenses of the Mormon tradition have affected their own lives and faith journeys. A delightful conversation!

These episodes (186 & 187) constitute the second of our three-part series on Hugh Nibley (1910-2005), focusing this time on Nibley as scholar of the ancient world and the ways he applied this scholarship to places of intersection with LDS scripture, history, and theology. In these episodes, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by Nibley biographer Boyd Petersen, along with Mormon scholars Brian Hauglid and Kevin Barney, for a discussion of Nibley’s areas of scholarly interest both outside of Mormonism and inside, the types of work he did, and the approaches he took--primarily seeking for and writing about parallels between Mormon textual clues and ideas with those found in antiquity--including an examination of criticisms of that approach. They also discuss an often-made critique that Nibley’s footnotes/citations contain many mistakes and/or push beyond what the texts actually say. Each also shares ways that Nibley’s scholarship and defenses of the Mormon tradition have affected their own lives and faith journeys. A delightful conversation!

These episodes launch a three-part series on Hugh Nibley (1910-2005), a towering figure in twentieth-century Mormonism who every Latter-day Saint deserves to know better. Seen primarily as an intellectual, scholar of the ancient world, teacher, and defender of the faith, Nibley is also one of Mormonism’s most vocal and incisive social critics, a beloved figure by Mormons of all temperaments who would also challenge many of the culture’s foibles, the attitudes, assumptions, and habits that keep individuals and the wider church from embodying the ideals of Zion. We are thrilled in these episodes to present him and frame his life, work, and critiques for a new generation who have perhaps heard of him but may not have been aware of his work and influence--or his personality, quirks, and other qualities that make him so endearing. In Part I presented here, Nibley biographers Boyd Petersen, a son-in-law, and Alex Nibley, a son, present an overview of his life, focusing on the experiences and people who helped shape his interests, spiritual core, and attitudes. In episode 184, you’ll learn of the influence of a teacher who first inspired his love of literature and languages, his maternal grandmother and a near-death-experience that most directly affected his faith and mystical temperament, the origins of his strong environmental sensibility, his distrust of wealth, and his clear-eyed views about church leaders as both good and fallible. The section of his experiences in World War II presents a very personal entry into the intimacy, fortunes, and horrors of war, and how these events and what he witnessed affected the rest of his life. In episode 185, we focus on Hugh’s career and family life (unique, interesting!), including a discussion of the accusations made very late in his life by one of his daughter’s, Martha, that Hugh had molested her in a ritualistic manner when she was very young.

These episodes launch a three-part series on Hugh Nibley (1910-2005), a towering figure in twentieth-century Mormonism who every Latter-day Saint deserves to know better. Seen primarily as an intellectual, scholar of the ancient world, teacher, and defender of the faith, Nibley is also one of Mormonism’s most vocal and incisive social critics, a beloved figure by Mormons of all temperaments who would also challenge many of the culture’s foibles, the attitudes, assumptions, and habits that keep individuals and the wider church from embodying the ideals of Zion. We are thrilled in these episodes to present him and frame his life, work, and critiques for a new generation who have perhaps heard of him but may not have been aware of his work and influence--or his personality, quirks, and other qualities that make him so endearing. In Part I presented here, Nibley biographers Boyd Petersen, a son-in-law, and Alex Nibley, a son, present an overview of his life, focusing on the experiences and people who helped shape his interests, spiritual core, and attitudes. In episode 184, you’ll learn of the influence of a teacher who first inspired his love of literature and languages, his maternal grandmother and a near-death-experience that most directly affected his faith and mystical temperament, the origins of his strong environmental sensibility, his distrust of wealth, and his clear-eyed views about church leaders as both good and fallible. The section of his experiences in World War II presents a very personal entry into the intimacy, fortunes, and horrors of war, and how these events and what he witnessed affected the rest of his life. In episode 185, we focus on Hugh’s career and family life (unique, interesting!), including a discussion of the accusations made very late in his life by one of his daughter’s, Martha, that Hugh had molested her in a ritualistic manner when she was very young.

Mormonism has a distinctive view of God that differs quite a bit from traditional theism. And though we as Latter-day Saints recognize and most often celebrate the differences, in our Sunday and typical discourse about God and God’s power and influence, we very often sound as if there is little distinctiveness. One way into a discussion of things like this is through the term "worship." The Bible and LDS scriptures all speak of "worshiping" God, yet the term has pretty distinct meanings in wider theism that perhaps don’t match up with the kinds of attitudes toward God that Mormon claims might suggest. (For instance, in the LDS view, would God even be interested in being "worshiped"?) This concept of worship, then, becomes a good diving off point into the wider discussions about LDS versus traditional theism, concepts like omnipotence, and whether the LDS God could really even be considered a God with a "capital G" (God) or if better described with a "lower-case g" (god). In these episodes, Dennis Potter poses such questions about Mormon views and language about God, calling for greater clarity. Jim McLachlan and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon respond with reasons for their preferences for the LDS view of God and why terms like God and omnipotence and worship should be allowed breathing room and a chance to evolve in ways that avoid charges of dodging certain issues or equivocating on terms in order to still have a coherent and compelling view.

Mormonism has a distinctive view of God that differs quite a bit from traditional theism. And though we as Latter-day Saints recognize and most often celebrate the differences, in our Sunday and typical discourse about God and God’s power and influence, we very often sound as if there is little distinctiveness. One way into a discussion of things like this is through the term "worship." The Bible and LDS scriptures all speak of "worshiping" God, yet the term has pretty distinct meanings in wider theism that perhaps don’t match up with the kinds of attitudes toward God that Mormon claims might suggest. (For instance, in the LDS view, would God even be interested in being "worshiped"?) This concept of worship, then, becomes a good diving off point into the wider discussions about LDS versus traditional theism, concepts like omnipotence, and whether the LDS God could really even be considered a God with a "capital G" (God) or if better described with a "lower-case g" (god). In these episodes, Dennis Potter poses such questions about Mormon views and language about God, calling for greater clarity. Jim McLachlan and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon respond with reasons for their preferences for the LDS view of God and why terms like God and omnipotence and worship should be allowed breathing room and a chance to evolve in ways that avoid charges of dodging certain issues or equivocating on terms in order to still have a coherent and compelling view.