B2B Lead Roundtable show

B2B Lead Roundtable

Summary: Brian Carroll's Start With A Lead Show is focused on topics related to B2B lead generation, sales leads, and marketing for the complex sale. Hear from other marketing and sales experts; get the latest tips and strategies; and learn what really works to generate new business and what doesn't.

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 How to Get Sales and Marketing Operating as One Team with Heidi Melin, CMO of Workfront | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 24:29

Marketing and sales alignment working together as one team is really about the customer. Why? Because today, buyers are in control. For this reason, we can no longer have an artificial divide between marketing and sales. That’s why I interviewed Heidi Melin (@heidimelin), CMO at Workfront on how to get sales and marketing operating as one revenue team. Brian: Can you tell us a little bit about your background? Heidi: Absolutely. I’m a career CMO. I’ve been in marketing for my entire career, having started really on the advertising side, but mostly focused on fast-growing software businesses. So, I have recently in the last year joined Workfront and I am the CMO at Workfront. How can sales and marketing operate as one team Well, throughout my career I’ve had the opportunity to work well with some sales teams, and I’ve also learned my fair share at working with sales teams and marketing teams that don’t align very well. Also, so all those lessons learned include things like ensuring that the goals are aligned and ensuring that the marketing team has the same goals as the sales team. And indeed, the marketing team tends to have a broader view of the marketplace on a longer-term view. But the immediate term goals must be aligned. So being aligned on lead generation or demand goals with the sales teams are critical. We talk about it inside Workfront as one view of the truth because so many times we’ve all probably sat in meetings with sales and marketing executives and you spend most of the meeting arguing about whether or not the number is right instead of diagnosing what we need to work on to improve. So, ensuring that you’re working on a common set of numbers is hard. It sounds straightforward, but it’s hard. And so that’s one of the things that I think is the key to success–ensuring that measurement and all the programmatic, as well as the process-oriented partnership between sales and marketing, is aligned because it’s one business process. One business process focused on revenue The way that I think about it is marketing and sales historically have been thought of as two separate business processes; we talk about it as a critical handoff. But the way that I think about it is that it’s one business process, and inside a company, it’s really focused on the revenue of your business. It starts from the time that a marketing team targets a specific customer or prospect, and they raise their hand and ask for more information or engage all the way through to close business. So, it’s one business process, not two separate business processes. And, oh, by the way, it’s aligned to something way more important than a sales team or a marketing team: it’s aligned to how a buyer buys your product. And we forget that sometimes, we’re like, “Oh, well the marketing process does this…” I’m like, oh no, no, no. We’re just trying to facilitate a buying process. Flip your focus on the customer Heidi: Yeah, and so when you flip that, and you look at the focus on the customer, all of sudden marketing and sales from an outreach, from an engagement perspective, has one unified goal, which is to move a buyer through a buying process. And when you have that change of mindset that becomes important. I’ve worked in businesses where we focus cleanly on that critical handoff, and that handoff is the most vital piece. And frankly, it’s an essential piece, but it’s not the crucial piece. Heidi: Yeah, it should support, and we have the tools to help that entire life cycle. When I first joined Workfront one of the things that we did was...

 15 Bring more innovation to your demand generation now with Jeanne Hopkins, CMO Lola.com | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 24:38

Do routinely look for ways to drive innovation with your demand generation approach? Or do you feel behind the curve? According to research by Circle Research, marketers are split. Half of the marketers say they’re “old school” while the other half believe their approach is innovative. Circle Research found that most of the marketers (93%) who describe themselves as innovative say that it has made their marketing more effective. However, 83% of marketers who are lagging plan to bring innovation into their approach this year. That’s why I interviewed Jeanne Hopkins (@jeannehopkins), CMO at Lola.com on how marketers can bring more innovation to demand generation. Share a little bit about your background Jeanne:  Thanks, Brian. My undergraduate degree is in Accounting. Believe it or not, the accounting office where I started told me in my annual review that I probably didn’t have a future in accounting because I was too loud for the office. Yes, everything balanced, everything was good, but I was too noisy for a nice, cut and dry accounting office. So, that’s when I moved into toys, and I worked for Milton Bradley Company in their in-house advertising agency. Then I moved to LEGO and then moved into other consulting companies. From there, I got into software which was an internally funded company called Datum E-business Solutions which delivered a trusted time application. A long time ago, way back in the year 2000, it used to be that you’d send an email. Maybe somebody would send it again, but it would be like three hours later or three hours before and that’s because networks were not on the same timing device. So, the whole concept of having timing and having to be secure became something that became critically important to all networks. From there, selling into IT, B2B technology companies, that sort of thing. So that’s my gig. What does Lola do? Jeanne: Lola.com is a corporate travel management solution that allows finance people, office managers and business travelers themselves to be able to see their full travel details and integrate with an expense platform. I know, Brian, you’ve probably done some expenses before- Brian: Yeah. Jeanne: You take a picture of the expense, you watch it go into the cloud, you fill out the form, and it takes a half an hour or hour and, I bet you avoid it, right? It’s like one those things- Brian: It’s something you wait until the last minute to do, and if the reports are due on Monday, you’re doing it Sunday night. Jeanne: Of course, taking away from family time. Brian: Right. Jeanne: We integrate with Expensify, Concur, a whole bunch of different finance applications as well as travel. You can book all your travel with us. We have a complete support network that helps you get checked in and makes sure that when disruptions come up (reroute people, get people back sooner or back later) and any other hiccups that business travelers endure and we’re trying to mitigate that for them. Brian: I wanted to highlight you because you’ve done so much, you know, since you and I met, and we could date ourselves a bit here but- Jeanne: That’s okay. Brian: Way back, as we spoke, I think, at a MarketingSherpa Conference. Jeanne: 2006, yeah. Brian: Yeah! I was impressed by you and just how you were bringing innovation and creativity and out of the box thinking. Also, you’ve continued to do that throughout your career. Driving more innovation with demand generation How did you start thinking differently to drive innovation with demand generation?

 15 Bring more innovation to your demand generation now with Jeanne Hopkins, CMO Lola.com | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 24:38

Do routinely look for ways to drive innovation with your demand generation approach? Or do you feel behind the curve? According to research by Circle Research, marketers are split. Half of the marketers say they’re “old school” while the other half believe their approach is innovative. Circle Research found that most of the marketers (93%) who describe themselves as innovative say that it has made their marketing more effective. However, 83% of marketers who are lagging plan to bring innovation into their approach this year. That’s why I interviewed Jeanne Hopkins (@jeannehopkins), CMO at Lola.com on how marketers can bring more innovation to demand generation. Share a little bit about your background Jeanne:  Thanks, Brian. My undergraduate degree is in Accounting. Believe it or not, the accounting office where I started told me in my annual review that I probably didn’t have a future in accounting because I was too loud for the office. Yes, everything balanced, everything was good, but I was too noisy for a nice, cut and dry accounting office. So, that’s when I moved into toys, and I worked for Milton Bradley Company in their in-house advertising agency. Then I moved to LEGO and then moved into other consulting companies. From there, I got into software which was an internally funded company called Datum E-business Solutions which delivered a trusted time application. A long time ago, way back in the year 2000, it used to be that you’d send an email. Maybe somebody would send it again, but it would be like three hours later or three hours before and that’s because networks were not on the same timing device. So, the whole concept of having timing and having to be secure became something that became critically important to all networks. From there, selling into IT, B2B technology companies, that sort of thing. So that’s my gig. What does Lola do? Jeanne: Lola.com is a corporate travel management solution that allows finance people, office managers and business travelers themselves to be able to see their full travel details and integrate with an expense platform. I know, Brian, you’ve probably done some expenses before- Brian: Yeah. Jeanne: You take a picture of the expense, you watch it go into the cloud, you fill out the form, and it takes a half an hour or hour and, I bet you avoid it, right? It’s like one those things- Brian: It’s something you wait until the last minute to do, and if the reports are due on Monday, you’re doing it Sunday night. Jeanne: Of course, taking away from family time. Brian: Right. Jeanne: We integrate with Expensify, Concur, a whole bunch of different finance applications as well as travel. You can book all your travel with us. We have a complete support network that helps you get checked in and makes sure that when disruptions come up (reroute people, get people back sooner or back later) and any other hiccups that business travelers endure and we’re trying to mitigate that for them. Brian: I wanted to highlight you because you’ve done so much, you know, since you and I met, and we could date ourselves a bit here but- Jeanne: That’s okay. Brian: Way back, as we spoke, I think, at a MarketingSherpa Conference. Jeanne: 2006, yeah. Brian: Yeah! I was impressed by you and just how you were bringing innovation and creativity and out of the box thinking. Also, you’ve continued to do that throughout your career. Driving more innovation with demand generation How did you start thinking differently to drive innovation with demand generation?

 14 Why Conversational Marketing and New Book with Dave Gerhardt, VP of Marketing at Drift.com | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 27:38

Traditional sales and marketing methods have failed to keep pace with the way modern B2B buyers purchase goods and services. Meetings, phone calls, and email are still important B2B channels but how can you have immediate conversations? Conversational Marketing is about having direct one-to-one conversations to connect with customers and offer help. By using targeted messaging and intelligent chatbots to engage with leads in real-time (while they’re on your website), you can connect with people in real-time, and convert leads faster. That’s why I interviewed Dave Gerhardt (@davegerhardt), VP of Marketing at Drift.com and co-author of the new book Conversational Marketing. Dave is also known as DG. Share a bit of your background and what does Drift do? DG: So, my background. I don’t even know where to start. I love marketing. I do marketing at Drift. VP of Marketing; been here for three-ish years right since the beginning of the company. The way that I talk about Drift is that Drift connects you now with the people who are ready to buy now. Which is a significant change from how traditional marketing typically works, where most of the traditional marketing and sales systems were kinda built for later? Go to my website, fill out this form, and somebody on the team is going to follow up with you later. But you know, there’s just been a huge shift in the way that we all behave and communicate online, and the now is more important than ever. I think about walking outside this building: if I called Lyft on my phone, the driver would be there in about one to two minutes, and that’s what we expect from everything. Except in the B2B world, where the rules, for some reason don’t apply to how we actually all do things in real life. Brian: Right. DG: So, our mission at Drift is really to transform the way businesses buy from businesses, and the way that we do that is through conversational marketing. Brian: Well, that’s awesome! And so, that sets us up actually. Tell us about Conversational Marketing? And what motivated you to write the book? Why now? The reason we wrote the book is that we’ve just heard so much about the power of conversational marketing, we felt it firsthand. We use conversational marketing and Drift to run our whole business, and we have become one of the fastest growing companies of all time in this industry. And it’s not because we have some secret, but our secret has been we’ve used our own product and really made conversations the center of our business. And so, as we created this category of conversational marketing and started to educate more people about it late last year, we were like, “You know what? It’s time to write the book.” We’ve wanted to write a book. We had enough stuff to say and enough case studies and examples and methodologies and playbooks and blueprints, and all that stuff. And so, you know we said,

 14 Why Conversational Marketing and New Book with Dave Gerhardt, VP of Marketing at Drift.com | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 27:38

Traditional sales and marketing methods have failed to keep pace with the way modern B2B buyers purchase goods and services. Meetings, phone calls, and email are still important B2B channels but how can you have immediate conversations? Conversational Marketing is about having direct one-to-one conversations to connect with customers and offer help. By using targeted messaging and intelligent chatbots to engage with leads in real-time (while they’re on your website), you can connect with people in real-time, and convert leads faster. That’s why I interviewed Dave Gerhardt (@davegerhardt), VP of Marketing at Drift.com and co-author of the new book Conversational Marketing. Dave is also known as DG. Share a bit of your background and what does Drift do? DG: So, my background. I don’t even know where to start. I love marketing. I do marketing at Drift. VP of Marketing; been here for three-ish years right since the beginning of the company. The way that I talk about Drift is that Drift connects you now with the people who are ready to buy now. Which is a significant change from how traditional marketing typically works, where most of the traditional marketing and sales systems were kinda built for later? Go to my website, fill out this form, and somebody on the team is going to follow up with you later. But you know, there’s just been a huge shift in the way that we all behave and communicate online, and the now is more important than ever. I think about walking outside this building: if I called Lyft on my phone, the driver would be there in about one to two minutes, and that’s what we expect from everything. Except in the B2B world, where the rules, for some reason don’t apply to how we actually all do things in real life. Brian: Right. DG: So, our mission at Drift is really to transform the way businesses buy from businesses, and the way that we do that is through conversational marketing. Brian: Well, that’s awesome! And so, that sets us up actually. You have a new book Conversational Marketing coming out soon? DG: You got a copy! Wait, old that up again. I gotta take a screenshot. Brian: Do a screenshot right here. DG: You got one of the contrabands. Love it. Brian: Yeah, we do! I have highlighted all over this book, and so I wanted to talk about it. This new book’s coming out. When’s the release date? I know it’s soon. And what motivated you to write the book? Why now? DG: Release date’s January 30th. Pre-order it everywhere until then, but it’ll be in stores on the 30th. And the reason we wrote the book is that we’ve just heard so much about the power of conversational marketing, we felt it firsthand. We use conversational marketing and Drift to run our whole business, and we have become one of the fastest growing companies of all time in this industry. And it’s not because we have some secret, but our secret has been we’ve used our own product and really...

 13 How to improve your account based marketing results an interview with Jon Miller, CEO of Engagio | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 22:54

B2B lead generation has had to reinvent itself over the last decade. Sales have always used an account-based approach. Now marketing is getting on board by with account-based marketing. But it’s not an easy road. Here’s why: In the B2B, you’re never selling to an individual. He or she is almost always part of a buying team. Moreover, the bigger the potential deal, the more people, departments, and functional areas get involved. For this reason, many B2B marketers using a leads-based approach hit a wall with their account based marketing efforts. ABM isn’t just about marketing. In fact, ABM works best in companies where all revenue-generating areas are closely aligned as one team. So how can you improve your account based marketing results? To help, I interviewed Jon Miller (@jonmiller), CEO and Co-Founder at Engagio. Jon and his team just released the Second Edition of The Clear and Complete Guide to Account Based Marketing. He brings a fantastic perspective on how you can complement a leads-based approach and adopt account-based marketing. What inspired you to start Engagio? Jon: Great.  I’m excited to be here and to have a chance to hang out with you again. It’s been a while since we talked. So, my background: I’ve been in marketing technology almost my entire career. My undergraduate degree is actually in physics, and when I was coming out of college, I ended up doing a lot of work with companies that were trying to take advantage of all the customer data they had [in order] to make decisions. Because I came to marketing with that quantitative and analytical background, that led me into a series of marketing technology companies that were basically all about really trying to use all that data to drive better customer decisions and one to one interactions. You know, very much inspired by the Don Peppers and Martha Rogers book The One to One Future. So, I worked at the company called Exchange and then I was an early employee at a company called Epiphany, which was probably the leading marketing technology company of the mid-’90s. After we sold Epiphany, I co-founded Marketo, along with Phil Fernandez. And I think that’s arguably, or maybe not even arguably, the leading marketing technology of the last ten years or so. Recently, it was sold to Adobe for just under 5 billion dollars. I had this long career in marketing technology, but one of the trends I think is always true is marketing is changing all the time, and the underlying technologies are changing all the time. I just felt about four years ago that Marketo wasn’t, frankly, moving fast enough to kind of keep up with all the new trends and changes in how marketing was done. And I was inspired to start a new company that would be seeking to build out the next generation of marketing product; that could really take advantage of all these new trends. One of those significant trends is what’s now known as account-based marketing. And so, that’s where I decided to start, to focus, to have Engagio be a platform for account-based marketing. How do you define account-based marketing? Brian: Well, there’s a lot of definitions out there about account-based marketing, and I’ve talked with CMOs and VPs, and they see account-based marketing as just good marketing. But I’d love to ask you: you just had this new book come out, The Clear Complete Guide to Account-Based Marketing and you’re on your second edition, so how would you define it? Jon: Yeah. So, first of all, let me just say, really excited about the book. You know,

 13 How to improve your account based marketing results an interview with Jon Miller, CEO of Engagio | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 22:54

B2B lead generation has had to reinvent itself over the last decade. Sales have always used an account-based approach. Now marketing is getting on board by with account-based marketing. But it’s not an easy road. Here’s why: In the B2B, you’re never selling to an individual. He or she is almost always part of a buying team. Moreover, the bigger the potential deal, the more people, departments, and functional areas get involved. For this reason, many B2B marketers using a leads-based approach hit a wall with their account based marketing efforts. ABM isn’t just about marketing. In fact, ABM works best in companies where all revenue-generating areas are closely aligned as one team. So how can you improve your account based marketing results? To help, I interviewed Jon Miller (@jonmiller), CEO and Co-Founder at Engagio. Jon and his team just released the Second Edition of The Clear and Complete Guide to Account Based Marketing. He brings a fantastic perspective on how you can complement a leads-based approach and adopt account-based marketing. What inspired you to start Engagio? Jon: Great.  I’m excited to be here and to have a chance to hang out with you again. It’s been a while since we talked. So, my background: I’ve been in marketing technology almost my entire career. My undergraduate degree is actually in physics, and when I was coming out of college, I ended up doing a lot of work with companies that were trying to take advantage of all the customer data they had [in order] to make decisions. Because I came to marketing with that quantitative and analytical background, that led me into a series of marketing technology companies that were basically all about really trying to use all that data to drive better customer decisions and one to one interactions. You know, very much inspired by the Don Peppers and Martha Rogers book The One to One Future. So, I worked at the company called Exchange and then I was an early employee at a company called Epiphany, which was probably the leading marketing technology company of the mid-’90s. After we sold Epiphany, I co-founded Marketo, along with Phil Fernandez. And I think that’s arguably, or maybe not even arguably, the leading marketing technology of the last ten years or so. Recently, it was sold to Adobe for just under 5 billion dollars. I had this long career in marketing technology, but one of the trends I think is always true is marketing is changing all the time, and the underlying technologies are changing all the time. I just felt about four years ago that Marketo wasn’t, frankly, moving fast enough to kind of keep up with all the new trends and changes in how marketing was done. And I was inspired to start a new company that would be seeking to build out the next generation of marketing product; that could really take advantage of all these new trends. One of those significant trends is what’s now known as account-based marketing. And so, that’s where I decided to start, to focus, to have Engagio be a platform for account-based marketing. How do you define account-based marketing? Brian: Well, there’s a lot of definitions out there about account-based marketing, and I’ve talked with CMOs and VPs, and they see account-based marketing as just good marketing. But I’d love to ask you: you just had this new book come out, The Clear Complete Guide to Account-Based Marketing and you’re on your second edition, so how would you define it? Jon: Yeah. So, first of all, let me just say, really excited about the book. You know,

 12 Growing B2B Sales with Trust and Empathy interview with Steve Woods, Founder & CTO at Nudge | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 19:55

We have more sales and marketing technology and channels to reach our customers, but they’re increasingly tuning us out. In short: we’re getting more disconnected from customers. Something is missing. Even though our tools have become smarter with AI and machine learning, connecting and building B2B relationships has never been harder. The question is: How can we connect better and build relationships with B2B customers? That’s why I interviewed Steve Woods (@stevewoods), Founder & CTO  at Nudge to learn how we can be connecting and building B2B relationships with trust and empathy, What inspired you to start-up Nudge? Sure thing. You and I have known each other, obviously, for a long time. A few decades. So, my history before Nudge was Eloqua, in the marketing space, obviously, it’s a space you’re very familiar with, you’re working a lot with marketers. And really, we were able to see this wonderful transition as marketing went from kind of an arts and craft discipline to a very measured lead generation, demand generation-oriented discipline that started to connect with sales. Here are leads that are qualified; that are interested. And, that was a wonderful transition to see. But, looking over the fence at the world of sales, we realized that the core of getting those deals done was the next step. Building trust and relationships The core was getting the trust and the relationships (and the breadth and depth of relationships at our organization) that would then allow that deal to be moved forward. The trust and the empathy to be developed, and ultimately the deal to be closed based on those relationships. As the Eloqua story was winding down, Paul and I decided to jump in and tackle relationship intelligence and use relationship intelligence to understand where empathy is being built, where trust is being built, and how you can make a sales team more effective, by focusing their efforts on the right initiatives. Brian: That’s cool, just how you took your story from where you were to what you’re doing right now. Growth lessons: relationships, trust, and empathy are the core I think the thing that we were lucky with, more than anything, in Eloqua was being part of a major change in a space. Marketing going from unmeasured to measured, and all the effects that that had on the people and the processes and the technology and the understanding. We were lucky to be a core part of that, and that helped us kind of flow along with that river. I think what we were trying to do with Nudge was to be a little bit more proactive and say, “What’s going on at a macro level that is going to be a dominant theme of a space for the next decade?” And looking at sales and looking at relationships, it became very clear that relationships, trust, empathy were the core thing, and it was unmeasurable.  It was intuitive. Dealing with deal slippage Every sales leader, when you’re talking about deal slippage when you’re talking about deal progress, when you’re talking about your forecast, it’s all about the relationships and the trust, but it’s not measurable. It’s self-reported by sales reps that often have kind of “happy ears” on the process. And so, we thought, “If we can do that, if we can figure out how to put a measurement on trust, empathy, and relationships, and then build the tooling on top of that to help people steer the ship in the right direction, then we’re going to be part of a very interesting transition.” And that’s turned out to be true, as you see sort of the evolution of the sales space: an interesting place to find ourselves in the middle of.

 12 Growing B2B Sales with Trust and Empathy interview with Steve Woods, Founder & CTO at Nudge | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 19:55

We have more sales and marketing technology and channels to reach our customers, but they’re increasingly tuning us out. In short: we’re getting more disconnected from customers. Something is missing. Even though our tools have become smarter with AI and machine learning, connecting and building B2B relationships has never been harder. The question is: How can we connect better and build relationships with B2B customers? That’s why I interviewed Steve Woods (@stevewoods), Founder & CTO  at Nudge to learn how we can be connecting and building B2B relationships with trust and empathy, What inspired you to start-up Nudge? Sure thing. You and I have known each other, obviously, for a long time. A few decades. So, my history before Nudge was Eloqua, in the marketing space, obviously, it’s a space you’re very familiar with, you’re working a lot with marketers. And really, we were able to see this wonderful transition as marketing went from kind of an arts and craft discipline to a very measured lead generation, demand generation-oriented discipline that started to connect with sales. Here are leads that are qualified; that are interested. And, that was a wonderful transition to see. But, looking over the fence at the world of sales, we realized that the core of getting those deals done was the next step. Building trust and relationships The core was getting the trust and the relationships (and the breadth and depth of relationships at our organization) that would then allow that deal to be moved forward. The trust and the empathy to be developed, and ultimately the deal to be closed based on those relationships. As the Eloqua story was winding down, Paul and I decided to jump in and tackle relationship intelligence and use relationship intelligence to understand where empathy is being built, where trust is being built, and how you can make a sales team more effective, by focusing their efforts on the right initiatives. Brian: That’s cool, just how you took your story from where you were to what you’re doing right now. Growth lessons: relationships, trust, and empathy are the core I think the thing that we were lucky with, more than anything, in Eloqua was being part of a major change in a space. Marketing going from unmeasured to measured, and all the effects that that had on the people and the processes and the technology and the understanding. We were lucky to be a core part of that, and that helped us kind of flow along with that river. I think what we were trying to do with Nudge was to be a little bit more proactive and say, “What’s going on at a macro level that is going to be a dominant theme of a space for the next decade?” And looking at sales and looking at relationships, it became very clear that relationships, trust, empathy were the core thing, and it was unmeasurable.  It was intuitive. Dealing with deal slippage Every sales leader, when you’re talking about deal slippage when you’re talking about deal progress, when you’re talking about your forecast, it’s all about the relationships and the trust, but it’s not measurable. It’s self-reported by sales reps that often have kind of “happy ears” on the process. And so, we thought, “If we can do that, if we can figure out how to put a measurement on trust, empathy, and relationships, and then build the tooling on top of that to help people steer the ship in the right direction, then we’re going to be part of a very interesting transition.” And that’s turned out to be true, as you see sort of the evolution of the sales space: an interesting place to find ourselves in the middle of.

 11 Transform Your Customer Journey and Accelerate Growth with Kia Puhm, CEO of DesiredPath | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 18:34

Growth for B2B is hard. It used to be that you could accelerate growth with huge customer acquisition. Ramping up your sales and marketing is not enough to sustain growth. Today, the best companies are growing through customer success. That’s why I interviewed Kia Puhm (@kiapuhm), CEO at K!A CX Consulting to talk about customer success. Kia’s got a fantastic perspective on “how do we accelerate and grow our existing customer relationships,” which is something that many companies don’t focus on nearly enough. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background? Kia: Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here. I come to software from an educational background in computer engineering and a practical experience background of 22 years in the industry working at rapidly growing, very dynamic software companies. I guess I’ve built every post-sales function and always the common denominator has been how the organizations I led get customers to adopt software so that they are using it and get value out of it. Moreover, therefore, translate into loyal customers that can translate into additional revenue at some point in time. I had to do that with a finite, limited amount of budget and resource, and so I always try to figure out how to drive that adoption equation while doing what I could or what I had available to me and use that most efficiently, if possible, to do it. What’s the most significant trend affecting your work? Kia: Great question. I’m going have to say disruption. I think with all the changes happening out there to businesses, with technology and data and information we have, and artificial intelligence, and just the way the world is changing, it’s changing how we operate. So, the biggest trend in the work that I do with my customers in helping them understand their customers and how to support that is how do you do that in a continually disruptive environment where things are always changing? Vendor-centric vs. customer-centric Kia: There have been many studies done and much research that shows that companies that are operating from a customer-centric viewpoint (that deliver amazing customer experience) far outperform their competitors that aren’t customer-centric. So, I do think that that is where companies are moving toward, and that is how we adapt to all these changes that are continually happening. The reason I think that’s important is not only the obvious (customers stay loyal when they have good experiences and that the product is delivering on the promises that it says it’s going to deliver) but also as our customers keep evolving and changing, so too are the ways that we operationalize that and support those customers. If you are customer-centric, it means you are observing that evolution that’s happening to your customer base, and you’re able to be very agile and nimble in responding to that as a business. If you keep using that information, that observation of a customer, either passively or through active engagement with them to find out that information, you could feed that into your organization and continually change and respond to that to continue to drive that value for customers and that loyalty that you need to keep growing your own business. Using journey maps to improve customer success Kia: I know you, and I have had conversations at other times and have completely aligned regarding the type of approach that we use. I use customer journeys to facilitate that customer-centric thinking to make sure that an organization understands empathizing, understanding what customers are trying to accomplish when they purchase your products. When you understand it from the customer viewpoint,

 11 Transform Your Customer Journey and Accelerate Growth with Kia Puhm, CEO of DesiredPath | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 18:34

Growth for B2B is hard. It used to be that you could accelerate growth with huge customer acquisition. Ramping up your sales and marketing is not enough to sustain growth. Today, the best companies are growing through customer success. That’s why I interviewed Kia Puhm (@kiapuhm), CEO at K!A CX Consulting to talk about customer success. Kia’s got a fantastic perspective on “how do we accelerate and grow our existing customer relationships,” which is something that many companies don’t focus on nearly enough. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background? Kia: Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here. I come to software from an educational background in computer engineering and a practical experience background of 22 years in the industry working at rapidly growing, very dynamic software companies. I guess I’ve built every post-sales function and always the common denominator has been how the organizations I led get customers to adopt software so that they are using it and get value out of it. Moreover, therefore, translate into loyal customers that can translate into additional revenue at some point in time. I had to do that with a finite, limited amount of budget and resource, and so I always try to figure out how to drive that adoption equation while doing what I could or what I had available to me and use that most efficiently, if possible, to do it. What’s the most significant trend affecting your work? Kia: Great question. I’m going have to say disruption. I think with all the changes happening out there to businesses, with technology and data and information we have, and artificial intelligence, and just the way the world is changing, it’s changing how we operate. So, the biggest trend in the work that I do with my customers in helping them understand their customers and how to support that is how do you do that in a continually disruptive environment where things are always changing? Vendor-centric vs. customer-centric Kia: There have been many studies done and much research that shows that companies that are operating from a customer-centric viewpoint (that deliver amazing customer experience) far outperform their competitors that aren’t customer-centric. So, I do think that that is where companies are moving toward, and that is how we adapt to all these changes that are continually happening. The reason I think that’s important is not only the obvious (customers stay loyal when they have good experiences and that the product is delivering on the promises that it says it’s going to deliver) but also as our customers keep evolving and changing, so too are the ways that we operationalize that and support those customers. If you are customer-centric, it means you are observing that evolution that’s happening to your customer base, and you’re able to be very agile and nimble in responding to that as a business. If you keep using that information, that observation of a customer, either passively or through active engagement with them to find out that information, you could feed that into your organization and continually change and respond to that to continue to drive that value for customers and that loyalty that you need to keep growing your own business. Using journey maps to improve customer success Kia: I know you, and I have had conversations at other times and have completely aligned regarding the type of approach that we use. I use customer journeys to facilitate that customer-centric thinking to make sure that an organization understands empathizing, understanding what customers are trying to accomplish when they purchase your products. When you understand it from the customer viewpoint, specifically,

 10 Customer Empathy and How to Solve Buying Problems with Brent Adamson, VP at Gartner | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 32:52

Are you applying empathy as part of your sales and marketing approach? Why? Because according to Brent Adamson, “empathy” is the one word that matters most to sales [and marketing] success. It’s tough to buy. B2B customers are overwhelmed with too much information, too many choices, trying to getting their colleagues to agree, not to mention second-guessing. This is part two of my interview with Brent Adamson (@brentadamson), Principal Executive Advisor at Gartner, and the co-author of The Challenger Sale and The Challenger Customer. You’ll learn ways to apply empathy and how to solve buying problems. Writers note: You can view part of our interview here: New research: Boost organic growth from current customers Does empathy capture everything your book, The Challenger Customer, is about? Brent: The idea that empathy is the core principle of the entire book The Challenger Customer, I admit, is more of a personal opinion based on all of our research. You’ll notice the word doesn’t appear anywhere in the proper book. It’s only in the acknowledgments where I made just a little blurb at the very back (a short note to my daughters). And I used the word empathy there. But in many ways, for me personally, that one word captures everything that the book is about. I know this is a topic not only near and dear to your heart. But your expertise here is far deeper than mine. But when I think of empathy, I think of two components to it, but it’s almost a right-brain, left-brain, or the rational versus the emotional. I don’t know what the right way to think about it is. But from my perspective empathy is, at a fundamental level, your ability to place yourself in someone else’s shoes and see the world from their perspective. And that might be logically (how they view the world from their perspective), or it might be emotionally (what the world feels like from their perspective). I find both of those attributes of empathy to be potentially hugely powerful for anyone in sales or marketing. How customers think For example, whenever we’re talking about Customer Improvement or even the broader work in Challenger, is this idea of mental modeling. The whole idea being, if you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, what’s the first thing you must understand more than anything else? How would you answer that, Brian? Brian: If I were to do that I’d need to understand what their experience is and how they see things. Brent: You got it. This is where I have fun talking to you because you get this stuff. And I say this with great, hopefully, empathy and respect for anyone out there. What I find when I ask most leaders, sales, and commercial marketing leaders, that question is: “If you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, what’s the first thing you have to understand?” Virtually everyone will say, “Their business.” So, then they start reading 10K’s and the annual reports and the financials and all that kind of stuff. What we saw in our research is closer to where you are, which is, if you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, the first thing you must understand is how they think about their business. That’s the thing you’ve got to change. Map customer thinking  

 10 Customer Empathy and How to Solve Buying Problems with Brent Adamson, VP at Gartner | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 32:52

Are you applying empathy as part of your sales and marketing approach? Why? Because according to Brent Adamson, “empathy” is the one word that matters most to sales [and marketing] success. It’s tough to buy. B2B customers are overwhelmed with too much information, too many choices, trying to getting their colleagues to agree, not to mention second-guessing. This is part two of my interview with Brent Adamson (@brentadamson), Principal Executive Advisor at Gartner, and the co-author of The Challenger Sale and The Challenger Customer. You’ll learn ways to apply empathy and how to solve buying problems. Writers note: You can view part of our interview here: New research: Boost organic growth from current customers Does empathy capture everything your book, The Challenger Customer, is about? Brent: The idea that empathy is the core principle of the entire book The Challenger Customer, I admit, is more of a personal opinion based on all of our research. You’ll notice the word doesn’t appear anywhere in the proper book. It’s only in the acknowledgments where I made just a little blurb at the very back (a short note to my daughters). And I used the word empathy there. But in many ways, for me personally, that one word captures everything that the book is about. I know this is a topic not only near and dear to your heart. But your expertise here is far deeper than mine. But when I think of empathy, I think of two components to it, but it’s almost a right-brain, left-brain, or the rational versus the emotional. I don’t know what the right way to think about it is. But from my perspective empathy is, at a fundamental level, your ability to place yourself in someone else’s shoes and see the world from their perspective. And that might be logically (how they view the world from their perspective), or it might be emotionally (what the world feels like from their perspective). I find both of those attributes of empathy to be potentially hugely powerful for anyone in sales or marketing. How customers think For example, whenever we’re talking about Customer Improvement or even the broader work in Challenger, is this idea of mental modeling. The whole idea being, if you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, what’s the first thing you must understand more than anything else? How would you answer that, Brian? Brian: If I were to do that I’d need to understand what their experience is and how they see things. Brent: You got it. This is where I have fun talking to you because you get this stuff. And I say this with great, hopefully, empathy and respect for anyone out there. What I find when I ask most leaders, sales, and commercial marketing leaders, that question is: “If you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, what’s the first thing you have to understand?” Virtually everyone will say, “Their business.” So, then they start reading 10K’s and the annual reports and the financials and all that kind of stuff. What we saw in our research is closer to where you are, which is, if you’re going to change the way a customer thinks about their business, the first thing you must understand is how they think about their business. That’s the thing you’ve got to change. Map customer thinking  

 9 Gartner Research: Boost Your Growth From Existing Customers with Brent Adamson, VP of Gartner | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 21:28

CEOs and sales leaders have long wondered: how can we drive organic growth and increase sales from existing customers? But it’s elusive. In fact, the traditional approach is no longer working. According to CEB, now Gartner, “Only 28% of sales leaders report that account management channels regularly meet their cross-selling and account growth targets.” That’s why I interviewed Brent Adamson (@brentadamson), Principal Executive Advisor at Gartner, and the co-author of The Challenger Sale and The Challenger Customer. Writers note: You can view part two of our interview here: New research: Empathy and how to solve buying problems  Can you tell our listeners a little bit about you and your background? Brent Adamson:  I work with an organization formerly known as CEB and has now been acquired by Gartner. I work with the Sales & Service and Marketing & Communications practices here at the company. And it’s sort of our mission in life, at least in the business to business space where I spend most of my time, trying to understand with data, with research, with analytics, what does world-class B2B selling and marketing look like? We get after that, again, with all sorts of analysis and research. It’s funny, we’re actually industry agnostic. We work across industries, go to market models, geographies, and try to understand (across all of the different kinds of companies out there) what do we all have in common? What’s the recipe for success that’s going to help us all move the dial, do a little bit better, in sales, in marketing and ideally in sales and marketing? How can sellers drive account growth?   Well, sure. This is brand new research for us. In some way or another, we always study growth, right? Because that’s what sales and marketing are all about. There’s a certain almost urgency, or we like to call the “Why Now?”, of this growth question, especially in sales, which is especially relevant for us today. And that is simply the journey that we’ve all been on over the last five years, five months, 10 years, 20 years of building out broader capabilities across our organization to offer our customers, if you will, solutions as opposed to individual products and/or services. The idea that if you can offer your customer broader solutions, that’s going to allow you to stand out, to differentiate yourself, to command price premiums in the marketplace. All good things to do and good reasons to do it. The thing that’s interesting though, Brian, as you add all those capabilities to your portfolio that you can now bring to your customer to add that additional value. The actual value they create for you as a supplier is of course directly contingent on your ability to actually sell them, to get your customer actually to buy those incremental capabilities. Not surprisingly, companies all around the world, in their efforts to grow, are looking to existing customers to buy into more of the cart, as we all like to say, to penetrate that account more deeply and get them to buy into more of the value that we can offer. It turns out this is a huge challenge for B2B organizations around the world, which is, simply put, to get existing customers to buy more of what we have to sell; to essentially drive growth with existing customers. That is the challenge or the terrain, as we like to say, that we dove into this year. What can sales do better? What can we, as sales organizations, do to do a better job of driving growth with those existin...

 9 Gartner Research: Boost Your Growth From Existing Customers with Brent Adamson, VP of Gartner | File Type: audio/mpeg | Duration: 21:28

CEOs and sales leaders have long wondered: how can we drive organic growth and increase sales from existing customers? But it’s elusive. In fact, the traditional approach is no longer working. According to CEB, now Gartner, “Only 28% of sales leaders report that account management channels regularly meet their cross-selling and account growth targets.” That’s why I interviewed Brent Adamson (@brentadamson), Principal Executive Advisor at Gartner, and the co-author of The Challenger Sale and The Challenger Customer. Writers note: You can view part two of our interview here: New research: Empathy and how to solve buying problems  Can you tell our listeners a little bit about you and your background? Brent Adamson:  I work with an organization formerly known as CEB and has now been acquired by Gartner. I work with the Sales & Service and Marketing & Communications practices here at the company. And it’s sort of our mission in life, at least in the business to business space where I spend most of my time, trying to understand with data, with research, with analytics, what does world-class B2B selling and marketing look like? We get after that, again, with all sorts of analysis and research. It’s funny, we’re actually industry agnostic. We work across industries, go to market models, geographies, and try to understand (across all of the different kinds of companies out there) what do we all have in common? What’s the recipe for success that’s going to help us all move the dial, do a little bit better, in sales, in marketing and ideally in sales and marketing? How can sellers drive account growth?   Well, sure. This is brand new research for us. In some way or another, we always study growth, right? Because that’s what sales and marketing are all about. There’s a certain almost urgency, or we like to call the “Why Now?”, of this growth question, especially in sales, which is especially relevant for us today. And that is simply the journey that we’ve all been on over the last five years, five months, 10 years, 20 years of building out broader capabilities across our organization to offer our customers, if you will, solutions as opposed to individual products and/or services. The idea that if you can offer your customer broader solutions, that’s going to allow you to stand out, to differentiate yourself, to command price premiums in the marketplace. All good things to do and good reasons to do it. The thing that’s interesting though, Brian, as you add all those capabilities to your portfolio that you can now bring to your customer to add that additional value. The actual value they create for you as a supplier is of course directly contingent on your ability to actually sell them, to get your customer actually to buy those incremental capabilities. Not surprisingly, companies all around the world, in their efforts to grow, are looking to existing customers to buy into more of the cart, as we all like to say, to penetrate that account more deeply and get them to buy into more of the value that we can offer. It turns out this is a huge challenge for B2B organizations around the world, which is, simply put, to get existing customers to buy more of what we have to sell; to essentially drive growth with existing customers. That is the challenge or the terrain, as we like to say, that we dove into this year. What can sales do better? What can we, as sales organizations, do to do a better job of driving growth with those ...

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